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View Full Version : M$ Quits the Joystick Market



XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 08:28 PM
This is interesting...most FB users probably have a better rig than M$ could offer anyway...but here it is:

http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030718.gtsidewinderjuly18/BNStory/AtPlay

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 08:28 PM
This is interesting...most FB users probably have a better rig than M$ could offer anyway...but here it is:

http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030718.gtsidewinderjuly18/BNStory/AtPlay

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 08:33 PM
Breath slowly and deeply RBJ LMAO /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Roy Baty
III/7/JG2

"Be happy in your work!"
- Col. Saito

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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 08:38 PM
Bill is such a knucklehead.

I tried the Freelancer demo and hated mouse/keyboard for flying.

People who buy flight sims (and their close cousins M$ CFS series), want to use, and do use, flightsticks. Thank god other manufactuers aren't as lame-brained!

I'll start looking for the newsgroup:
MSFFB Stick maintaince and repair.alt


*****Only left handed people are in their right minds.*****

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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 08:38 PM
Less crap on the market now. Now if they'd give up the OS market, maybe we could get something better.

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 08:48 PM
That is too bad.
I recently switched from the Logitech Wingman FF to the Sidewinder 2 FF and WOW! that is a great FF stick for the price.

Since I did not have $400 Cdn to blow on the Saitek etc. my options were limited.

Better baby my MS now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 08:49 PM
Who cares, they make crap sticks anyway.

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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 08:50 PM
$400 for a Saitek? Do you guys make alot of money up there?

Da Buzz
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<center>
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<center>
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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:00 PM
Hmmm, no response from RBJ yet??? Somebody better check on him, mighta done sumthun drastic /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Roy Baty
III/7/JG2

"Be happy in your work!"
- Col. Saito

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_henry_blake.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

Message Edited on 07/25/0304:01PM by roybaty

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:02 PM
Are the Saitek's not around $200 US plus shipping for forcefeedback, Buzz?

That is what I remember seeing on a website.
I cannot find them anywhere locally.
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:05 PM
Saiteks at $200USD? More like $100 guys.

Friday + 1 hour of work left = me posting waaaaaaay to much. Talk about internet abuse /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif .



Roy Baty
III/7/JG2

"Be happy in your work!"
- Col. Saito

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_henry_blake.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:08 PM
We usually get screwed in shipping it to Canada and then paying the duty on top to the stinking government.

My brand new MS Sidewinder 2 FF cost me 79$ Cdn (or 50$US) after rebate.

I have twin one-year olds and a wife to support.
Now you see how my choice was clear.

Thanks for the info guys. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:11 PM
I rather enjoy the MS sticks. I have a rather old Sidewinder Pro and love the hell out of it. Its light on the springs, stick twist, and easy throttle help a lot. Plus its not as combersom as say a HOTAS or a heavy stick. My MS is getting rather old now, any suggestions?

Gib

I am now accepting donations to help get the PBY flyable.

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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:23 PM
my x45 was 85 new, I heard people even buying refurbished ones for 50, great stick and you can always mix if you want ffb which ruins sticks and twist rudder


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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:27 PM
Does the X45 have stick twist? I really like that feature.

LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- my x45 was 85 new, I heard people even buying
- refurbished ones for 50, great stick and you can
- always mix if you want ffb which ruins sticks and
- twist rudder
-
-
- http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif
-
- Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't.
- (c) Leadspitter
-
-



I am now accepting donations to help get the PBY flyable.

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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 11:57 PM
The Thrustmaster Afterburner II is a good deal - only 8 buttons of course, but twist stick and a separate throttle assembly. Also, adjustable resistance on the stick. Can be had for 60-70 bucks. Got mine for 59.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:59 AM
I uses to have a MS FF1, and it was a hell of a stick. I wore it out over about two years, and then "moved up" to the FF2.What an absolute piece of crap!They ripped off the public by charging the same or more for the FF2, but reduced the cost of it by 1) Using inferior plastic 2)Using smaller and weaker motors for the FF 3)actually making the grip area and the overall stick SMALLER !!!It was like playing a 1996 Les Paul after years on an original.
I knew right then they were on the way out of the stick business.Perhaps next they will decide to get out of the flight sim business...one can only hope I guess.

Hows that sentance in the report : "we will still carry on creating innovative products"?!?!!?

ROTFKMS!

When have they ever!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif





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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:59 AM
Pretty sad when the best selling joystick in North america can't stay financially solvent.

Thats what happens when you make a high quality product yet don't charge enough for it.

It would be wise to buy about 10 MS FFB2's right now. In 5 years when there are nothing but crappy joysticks on the market these puppies will be going for about $500 on ebay (still in the box)

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:11 AM
If you're interested in a HOTAS, check this link:

http://store.yahoo.com/saitekusa/x45digjoyand1.html

40 USD!


*****Only left handed people are in their right minds.*****

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:22 AM
I am buying my spare next week.... I think it's a great stick. The X45 is nice too. I finally got my rebate check for it. I got it for $49 on sale.

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:31 AM
LOL at all the fanboys!

The simple fact is MSFFB2 is the best stick you can buy with force feedback, bar none. Sure you get more fancy buttons on a Saitek but without FFB it's simply a waste of money IMHO but they do have a nice feel to them.

Any other FFB stick is a far second to the MSFFB2 but only those that actually have one and have tried others would know that, hence the fanboyism that goes on here. Personally, I hope something better comes out than MSFFB2 in a couple years by the time I'll need another but we'll see.

Oh and to make up for the sad lack of buttons on the MSFFB2 (it's only real fault) any serious sim pilot would probably want a throttle HOTAS anyway.

Luckily, I'll be getting my CH throttle Pro USB on Monday and have the best of both worlds!



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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:54 AM
I think Prik is Ray. They both spout the same crap.

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:59 AM
and rogo too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I have been using a ffb2 for about a week and it's amazing. I was using a hotas setup and now have the ffb2 for joy and my old throttle quadrant CH for throttle /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

the best of both worlds is completely correct /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:59 AM
I think FFB is a waist of money. Only messes up your aim and messages your hand.

Gib

I am now accepting donations to help get the PBY flyable.

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 02:27 AM
I never understood why all you guys like the X45 joystick so much. I used the older model for like six months (I think it was called X35) and I hated every moment of it. It was WAY to tall to get any precise control, and after a short while it became VERY sloppy and had no center position at all. It didn't have that trendy blue finish though, I'll give you that =) The two throttle extreme points (min/max) became indistinct after only a month or two, and the only positive thing about that particular setup was that it actually had a seperate throttle. And I mean positive as in Cool, not as in Functional. A small throttle lever on the base of the joystick offers way more control in heated dogfights when your brain shouldn't be contending with flailing arms half a meter apart. The MS FF2 has this. It also has a twist-the-stick rudder which I like for the same reasons. The stick fits your hand much better than anything else out there and the force feedback can be tweaked to suit your taste. It has a sturdy base, and as a force feedback joystick, it doesn't require all that calibrating you need with limp ones. I'll have to stock up on these, because it's the best damn joystick I've ever not had the mispleasure of hating in my life!


[Engel]

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 02:42 AM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- I think FFB is a waist of money. Only messes up
- your aim and messages your hand.


You do know that the force feedback files in IL2/FB are modifyable, right?

I modify all of my force feedback files so the most I will ever experience is a pleasant vibrating feeling (no shaking)

And the gradual tightening of the spring due to higher speeds is pricelss in terms of immersion.

Bottom line: It's the year 2003. If you don't use force feedback in flight sims then you might as well be taking a shower with a raincoat on.

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Message Edited on 07/25/0309:44PM by RayBanJockey

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 03:13 AM
This is a bummer for me as the MSFF2 is the only FF stick I could comfortably use left-handed. I like mine a lot and it would only be better if it were specifically left handed.

I've really been wanting a TM Cougar lately and tried to fly right hand on stick for all of about ten minutes....with very little success. It just felt awkward. I'm more lefty than I thought.

C'mon TM! Go lefty...Please!



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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 03:15 AM
Do you MS FFB fans realize that your joystick programming software will not work in the next Windows OS?

When I upgraded to WinXP, my Sidewinder programming software was useless, and I was told that I had to just deal with it.

Hope you're ready for the same.

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 03:36 AM
BPond wrote:
- Do you MS FFB fans realize that your joystick
- programming software will not work in the next
- Windows OS?
-
- When I upgraded to WinXP, my Sidewinder programming
- software was useless, and I was told that I had to
- just deal with it.
-
- Hope you're ready for the same.



I've been using a MS FFB2 for 5 years and the only thing I used the software for was to set the force level (low, med, high)

Now that I don't use the software, and instead have learned to modify my force feedback files from the game (using the fedit program), I get far more precise force modulation that what that silly software was used for.

No force feedback software is the best thing that could have happened. (churlishsmileyface.rbj)

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 03:53 AM
Sidewinders were great sticks and still are. Whoever thinks that FFB2 is a bad joystick or any other sidewinders.. simply have no idea of what they talking about or...they just enjoying their dance on Sidewinders grave. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 04:10 AM
BuzzU wrote:
- Less crap on the market now. Now if they'd give up
- the OS market, maybe we could get something better.
-
- Da Buzz
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all we need is a il2 port then XP can leave my harddisk, tho its partition is shrinking by the day il2 has edged a secure foothold.

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 04:29 AM
BuzzU wrote:
- $400 for a Saitek? Do you guys make alot of money up
- there?
-
- Da Buzz
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Converts to $US ....... NOPE /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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ShadowHawk__
07-26-2003, 04:33 AM
Too bad to hear really, I have a FFB2 and it's been great for me. I'd love to get a HOTAS but I'm really not sure if I want to spend the money, though I almost bought a CH pro throttle a while ago to go with it. I'll never go back to Logitec, had 2 go on me over the course of a year, switched to M$ and never looked back, I've had this one for a good 2 years now atleast and I haven't had any problems. Not looking forward to when it actually dies on me, don't know what I'm going to have to find, though it may persuade me to finally go all out CH.

-Death From Above

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 05:55 AM
BuzzU wrote:
- I think Prik is Ray. They both spout the same crap.
-
- Da Buzz

Do you deal with all of your issues by generalising or have you actually read my posts?

I have to apologise for having similar gear as RBJ, although I have TIR. I don't really concern myself with the whole RBJ social dynamic here so think whatever you like.

But anyway, to each their own. I like the immersion aspect of this game far more than getting a million kills online to be a geeky pilot hero. It's not the olympics out there for me so I'll sacrifice a bit of precision to feel "there" more.

MSFFB2 makes more sense for me, play whatever's best for you.



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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 06:04 AM
Hey Gibbage, if you want to give an overhaul to your MS sidewinder check this link...thats how I kept my old sidewinder until it got fried ( almost 8 years of great service)

http://www.cc.utah.edu/~dlg7/sidewinder/repair.html

Gibbage1 wrote:
- I rather enjoy the MS sticks. I have a rather old
- Sidewinder Pro and love the hell out of it. Its
- light on the springs, stick twist, and easy throttle
- help a lot. Plus its not as combersom as say a
- HOTAS or a heavy stick. My MS is getting rather old
- now, any suggestions?
-
- Gib


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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 06:11 AM
you can install your drivers on XP and make them run on compatibility mode...but im not sure if longhorn will have backwards compatibility...granted, Microshaft will not think of that as profitable if you know what I mean.



BPond wrote:
- Do you MS FFB fans realize that your joystick
- programming software will not work in the next
- Windows OS?
-
- When I upgraded to WinXP, my Sidewinder programming
- software was useless, and I was told that I had to
- just deal with it.
-
- Hope you're ready for the same.


http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/Pawnee1995.jpg

A man and his Messerschmitt..its a beautiful thing
[B]Burning Avgas at alarming rates since 1990. [B]
<G>Visit http://www.aopa.org<G>
I love the Me 109 but... "Ich bin ein Würgerwhiner"!! too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 06:27 AM
Longorn will support the FFB2, just like XP does.

You don't need any software, its just part of the operating systems USB config

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"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>