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View Full Version : DB3-F Baltic Fleet Raids on Berlin



clint-ruin
12-27-2003, 06:55 AM
Hi,

Read on aviation.ru:


TsKB-30/DB-3 [15K]/DB-3b - "Dalniy Bombardirovschik" (long range bomber) was designed by Ilyshin OKB. The names TsKB-30 and TB-3 were used in 1936-1938. Later aircrafts were named DB-3b.
Engines: 2M-85, 2M-86, 2M-87, 2M-87A.
Its modification (TsKB-30 "Moskva") flew from Moscow to Spassk-Dalnyj (7580km) for 24h 36min (307km/h) mostly at 7000m under control of V.K.Kokkinaki and A.M.Berdyanskij, then it flew from Moscow to US (Miscow island) in 22 h 56 min covering 8000 km with 348km/h average airspeed (Kokkinaki and M.Kh.Gordienko).
In the night of August 8, 1941 fifteen DB-3T (torpedo bomber) of Baltic Fleet dropped first bombs on Berlin. From August 11, 1941 DB-3F of VVS resumed bombing.



Anyone know the composition or history of these raids? I was aware of the long range Pe-8 raids the soviets did on Berlin but the force makeup/altitude/timing of the DB3 ones is a mystery to me.

Might be an interesting early war mission in there somewhere..

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

clint-ruin
12-27-2003, 06:55 AM
Hi,

Read on aviation.ru:


TsKB-30/DB-3 [15K]/DB-3b - "Dalniy Bombardirovschik" (long range bomber) was designed by Ilyshin OKB. The names TsKB-30 and TB-3 were used in 1936-1938. Later aircrafts were named DB-3b.
Engines: 2M-85, 2M-86, 2M-87, 2M-87A.
Its modification (TsKB-30 "Moskva") flew from Moscow to Spassk-Dalnyj (7580km) for 24h 36min (307km/h) mostly at 7000m under control of V.K.Kokkinaki and A.M.Berdyanskij, then it flew from Moscow to US (Miscow island) in 22 h 56 min covering 8000 km with 348km/h average airspeed (Kokkinaki and M.Kh.Gordienko).
In the night of August 8, 1941 fifteen DB-3T (torpedo bomber) of Baltic Fleet dropped first bombs on Berlin. From August 11, 1941 DB-3F of VVS resumed bombing.



Anyone know the composition or history of these raids? I was aware of the long range Pe-8 raids the soviets did on Berlin but the force makeup/altitude/timing of the DB3 ones is a mystery to me.

Might be an interesting early war mission in there somewhere..

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

LeadSpitter_
12-27-2003, 07:27 AM
hey clint do you have any more info on the pe-8 raids and what payloads did they use. I've read the 5000kg bomb wasnt practical in the pe8 because of its underpowered engines. And read the pe8 was a failure as a long range bomber but was resdesignated to become a diplomatic transport.

S` clint

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
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clint-ruin
12-27-2003, 07:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
hey clint do you have any more info on the pe-8 raids and what payloads did they use. I've read the 5000kg bomb wasnt practical in the pe8 because of its underpowered engines. And read the pe8 was a failure as a long range bomber but was resdesignated to become a diplomatic transport.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice writeup for the Pe-8 raids here: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Bunker/3351/campaigns/russrd.html

This was discussed a while back in GD, I think - someone even made a .mis file of the 11 bombers staggering in through Berlin at night with a lone 109 trying to intercept them.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

LeadSpitter_
12-27-2003, 08:11 AM
thx clint

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
VIEW MY PAINTSCHEMES HERE (http://www.il2skins.com/?planeidfilter=all&planefamilyfilter=all&screenshotfilter=allskins&countryidfilter=all&authoridfilter=%3ALeadspitter%3A&historicalidfilter=all&Submit=+++Apply+filters++&action=list&ts=1072257400)

p1ngu666
12-27-2003, 08:56 AM
good read http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

FW190fan
12-27-2003, 06:53 PM
I'd like to learn more about these DB-3 raids into Berlin early in the war. It would be great for mission building.


http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-G2-33s_small.jpg

tenmmike
12-27-2003, 07:59 PM
this is just a quick over view of the db-3 aka il-4 raid/s......the night of 7 august 1941 6 db-3 attacked berlin..oddly enough russia first did not admit to these raids as perhaps moscow was very seriously contemplating negotiations with germany...over a 2 month span a toat of 33 planes made raids on berlin untill germany occupied all the bases that were close enough ..............NOTE this info was provided from a detailed weapons book(flying guns) not a detailed aircraft type history

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

[This message was edited by tenmmike on Sat December 27 2003 at 07:25 PM.]

clint-ruin
12-27-2003, 08:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tenmmike:
this is just a quick over view of the db-3 aka il-4 raid/s......the night of august 1941 6 db-3 attacked berlin..oddly enough russia first did not admit to these raids as perhaps moscow was very seriously contemplating negotiations with germany...over a 2 month span a toat of 33 planes made raids on berlin untill germany occupied all the bases that were close enough ..............NOTE this info was provided from a detailed weapons book(flying guns) not a detailed aircraft type history

http://images.ar15.com/forums/smiles/anim_50cal.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

[This message was edited by tenmmike on Sat December 27 2003 at 07:15 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, the site I gave as a writeup for the Pe-8 raids says:

Despite the problems with the Pe-8s, they soldiered on. On September 1, a completely successful Pe-8 raid on K√¬∂nigsberg was effected. Raids on Berlin continued, too. Naval DB-3s flew a total of 10 sorties over Berlin before their base at Saaremaa had to be evacuated in the face of imminent German capture. The final attack was made on the night of September 4-5. A total of 86 naval aircraft participated in the raids, of which 33 were reported to have reached Berlin, while others bombed secondary targets, including Stettin, K√¬∂nigsberg, Memel, Danzig, Swinem√ľnde and Libau. Daylight bombing was even tried, but met with no success and was cancelled.

But not any really massively useful details like there are for the Pe-8 mission which gives bombload/alt/course/etc.

Certainly would've been interesting for the germans to get pounded by B-17s and B-26s and P-51s from the west and Pe-8s and Yak-9DDs from the east, if the soviets had decided to keep up strategic bombing :&gt;

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg