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Dominicrigg
09-26-2005, 02:02 PM
I found this today, its a cool page on the liberty ships.

http://www.cascobay.com/history/libship/libship.htm#ship

There were also some interesting facts like this :


The Liberty was 441 feet long and 56 feet wide. Her three-cylinder, reciprocating steam engine, fed by two oil-burning boilers produced 2,500 hp and a speed of 11 knots. Her 5 holds could carry over 9,000 tons of cargo, plus airplanes, tanks, and locomotives lashed to its deck. A Liberty could carry 2,840 jeeps, 440 tanks, or 230 million rounds of rifle ammunition.

Quite a lot of gear!!

W.Irving
09-26-2005, 02:46 PM
Bloody hell! 2000 GP's!

The Volkswagen of the seas no doubt. C2's and bigger sisters mostly had turbines though.

3.JG51_Molders
09-26-2005, 02:53 PM
"Despirately scans the horizon for Liberty ships" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

ILikePortillos
09-26-2005, 02:58 PM
That's funny. I just found that exact same page yesterday. You know what they say about great minds.

Here's another interesting site:

More on Liberty Ships (http://www.usmm.org/libertyships.html)

The_Silent_O
09-26-2005, 03:04 PM
I was just up in Portland Maine, where many of the liberty ships were built...they have a half built hull there as a memorial...I have a picture of it...I may be able to provide it tomorrow, but it's nothing better than the pictures at that website.

Also, Casco Bay was also a deep water harbor for the US Atlantic Fleet during WWII...many battleships and cruisers pulled in there for rest.

Paul_K
09-26-2005, 03:18 PM
Am I alone in thinking the claim that a Liberty ship could carry 440 tanks is a tad excessive ? I'm assuming they mean Sherman tanks; it seems a heck of a lot of them for one ship. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Dominicrigg
09-26-2005, 03:38 PM
yeah it does sound wrong.

NEVER TRUST THE INTERWEB!!

I dont think there is enough room even including the whole decks lol.

DiveDevil
09-26-2005, 03:40 PM
Posted Mon September 26 2005 14:04
I was just up in Portland Maine, where many of the liberty ships were built...they have a half built hull there as a memorial.

I live two hours down the road from that site, I love that hull memorial . Did you notice the names down the walkway to the lighthouse. My uncles there, he was a welder and worked on the ships.

Dominicrigg
09-26-2005, 03:49 PM
A Liberty or Victory ship can carry to battle fronts 440 light tanks, or 2,840 Jeeps.

Allegedly from a fact sheet issued on maratime day, though it doesnt say who issued it...

http://www.marad.dot.gov/Education/history/facts.html

W.Irving
09-26-2005, 03:49 PM
Cargo capacity - 9146 tons
Sherman tank - 30 tons.
= 304 tanks
Stuart tank - 12 tons
= 762 tanks

But then there's the size issue..

Beam/length/draught - 17/134/8.5 metres
Cargo hold 19 363 mÔ┬▓

The actual cargo hold is naturally nowhere near that number, for obvious reasons.

Sherman length/width/height: 5.9/2.6/2.8 = 43 mÔ┬▓

19 363/43 = 450... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Stuart length/width/height: 4.8/2.3/2.6 = 29mÔ┬▓

19 363/29 = 667

I do not for one second think it's possible to cram 440 M4's onto one of those ships unless you stack them on top of each other in the holds and on deck and hang them off the sides of the ship.
Stuarts.. well.. possibly.

Paul_K
09-26-2005, 04:16 PM
Thinking about it, 2840 jeeps is a bit over the top as well.

Incidentally, it's not commonly known that the Liberty ship was in fact a British design from the J L Thompson shipyard in Sunderland. It was modified for mass production.

And the first ship I ever sailed on was also from that yard.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ILikePortillos
09-26-2005, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by Paul_K:
Incidentally, it's not commonly known that the Liberty ship was in fact a British design from the J L Thompson shipyard in Sunderland. It was modified for mass production.

And the first ship I ever sailed on was also from that yard.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Actually, I think it mentions that in the web description. The English and Americans, always good friends. We learn from each other. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Whether or not the ship could hold all of those tanks and jeeps, it just seems like a lot of valuable resources wrapped up in one big destructable container. Then you go on to realize that we were filling these puppies up on a regular basis and sending them over there.

Incidentally, if anyone hasn't already read "Citizen Soldier" by Stephen Ambrose, you should get a copy. It mentions how when German commanders broke through the American lines at the Battle of the Bulge, they got a look at the American weapons stockpiles and were in awe. At that point they knew it was almost over. It was a constant stream of production from home to the front.

panthercules
09-26-2005, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by ILikePortillos:
Incidentally, if anyone hasn't already read "Citizen Soldier" by Stephen Ambrose, you should get a copy. It mentions how when German commanders broke through the American lines at the Battle of the Bulge, they got a look at the American weapons stockpiles and were in awe. At that point they knew it was almost over. It was a constant stream of production from home to the front.

Reminds me of one of my favorite parts of the movie "Battle of the Bulge", where the German Panzer leader convinces his commander to let him waste his time and tanks to try to reduce some American-held city to ashes because he has captured some fresh chocolate cake wrapped in a recent States-side newspaper that indicated that the Americans had fuel to waste flying cake across the Atlantic while the Germans were scrounging for every gallon they could get their hands on - while the decision that scene led the Panzer leader to was stupid, it captured the relative supply situation rather well.

Of course, Adm. Doenitz might have used that scene as an example of how well his u-boat strategy was working because the Americans had to fly their cake over the Atlantic instead of putting it on ships his boys could torpedo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif [it's all about the spin http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ]

Anton_Reinhold
09-26-2005, 06:58 PM
There is an American Liberty ship in Tampa, FL.
Here is a quotation of some information about it:

The Victory Ship SS American Victory is located near the Florida Aquarium in Tampa, Florida at Berth 271. The ship is open to the public and cruises are available. The ship is open Monday through Saturday 10:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. and Sundays 12:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. There is an admission charge. From I-275 take the Downtown East exit to Jefferson Street. Continue south on Jefferson Street to Twiggs Street. Turn left on Twiggs Street to Channelside Drive. Turn right on Channelside Drive to York Street. Turn left on York Street to the Florida Aquarium parking lot. For more information, contact American Victory Ship, 705 Channelside Drive, Tampa, FL 33602, or visit the ship's website.
http://www.liberty-ship.com/

I plan on taking one of those little cruises on it real soon since I live here in Tampa, FL...

Foehammer88
09-27-2005, 08:44 AM
About tanks... Didn't the Americans have about 400 tanks in total before the war? Even IF the Liberties could carry that many tanks in one go, and we assume 1 in say 10 ships was loaded with tanks... Isn't that a whole lot of tanks to build??

W.Irving
09-27-2005, 11:24 AM
50000 Shermans were produced during the war.....

The_Silent_O
09-27-2005, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by W.Irving:
Cargo capacity - 9146 tons
Sherman tank - 30 tons.
= 304 tanks
Stuart tank - 12 tons
= 762 tanks

But then there's the size issue..

Beam/length/draught - 17/134/8.5 metres
Cargo hold 19 363 mÔ┬▓

The actual cargo hold is naturally nowhere near that number, for obvious reasons.

Sherman length/width/height: 5.9/2.6/2.8 = 43 mÔ┬▓

19 363/43 = 450... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Stuart length/width/height: 4.8/2.3/2.6 = 29mÔ┬▓

19 363/29 = 667

I do not for one second think it's possible to cram 440 M4's onto one of those ships unless you stack them on top of each other in the holds and on deck and hang them off the sides of the ship.
Stuarts.. well.. possibly.

I agree with your logic, and appreciate the math...but what tonnage are we talking about?

Tonnage in shipping is most likely a measurement of volume.

In fact if you go to u-boat.net you will see that captains tracked warships seperately from cargo ships. For cargo ships they would get credit for the GRT (a volume) and for Warships sunk they would get credit for its displacement tons (weight of water displaced when normally loaded out)...

SHIII, of course does not make a distinction when it awards tonnage, which is wrong. (it may in renown though)

Wikipedia does a good job clearing it up...

tonnage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonnage)

but using your numbers:

9146 tonnes X (2.832 m3/tonne) = 25,901 m3

25,901 m3/(43 mÔ┬▓/"Sherm") = 602 Sherman tanks!

But as you said, there's space restrictions below deck that restrict the placement of that many tanks.

They might have modified some to handle tanks only, like the Car carriers do today?