PDA

View Full Version : 2 Problems with the 262 that need to be fixed!!



XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:27 PM
After having a 262 Ace play FB on my computer, there are some things he stated needed to be fixed...

1) The pilot is positioned WAY to high!!! The Revi sight was mounted directy infront of the pilot like on the 109. The way it is set-up in FB, the pilot is sitting so high that the Revi sight is VERY low down. That is incorrect. If you look at the external view, the pilot's head is hitting the top of the canopy.

2) The 262 was FULLY capable of flight with only 1 engine. I've tried it, but i always seem to lose altitude. The Ace i spoke to had one of his engines knocked out by a b-17, but he was totally able to fly back to his airfield by compensating with rudder.

hmmm...can these be fixed in a patch?



Message Edited on 08/02/0301:27PM by ptefuller

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:27 PM
After having a 262 Ace play FB on my computer, there are some things he stated needed to be fixed...

1) The pilot is positioned WAY to high!!! The Revi sight was mounted directy infront of the pilot like on the 109. The way it is set-up in FB, the pilot is sitting so high that the Revi sight is VERY low down. That is incorrect. If you look at the external view, the pilot's head is hitting the top of the canopy.

2) The 262 was FULLY capable of flight with only 1 engine. I've tried it, but i always seem to lose altitude. The Ace i spoke to had one of his engines knocked out by a b-17, but he was totally able to fly back to his airfield by compensating with rudder.

hmmm...can these be fixed in a patch?



Message Edited on 08/02/0301:27PM by ptefuller

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:31 PM
Probably....

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:32 PM
You should be asking him whutup with the FW sighting and how the P-51 won the war! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Actually, what were his other impressions of the sim? Overall, I mean.



<center>http://members.rogers.com/4xtreme/chbanner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:34 PM
I agree the engines seem to ready to burst into flames aswell, jet engines do not erupt like that they pop and fart and maybe spit a blade or two, but poor acceleration rarly causes an aicraft to turn into a ball of fire, belive me I fix them. It is a shame because the 262 is a nice aircraft but in the unpatced game it is too delicate.

"They Gave All Their Tommorrows So That We Can Have Our Todays"

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:38 PM
the 262 was known for bursting into flames by adding too much throttle too fast. and sometimes it would explode

<center>I know my name is spelled wrong

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:40 PM
Did he comment on Oleg's comedy muzzle flash?

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 09:48 PM
Yes I know but not every time, like in the game, even with sensitive manual fuel control and primitive engines things like overspeed, surge, stall and overtemp occur before the engine would explode, on this one all you have to do is cough and youre a kebab!

"They Gave All Their Tommorrows So That We Can Have Our Todays"

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 10:10 PM
I once shot a Me-262 down just by looking at the engine really hard.

/me glares
.me-262 engine explodes.


Score: me:1 262:0

Hawgdog
08-02-2003, 10:20 PM
262 fun:

the patch (at least 8.0a) didnt fix anything in the 262. In fact, I found an exploitable bug. Maybe the final release will fix it up.
Oh, all those German rocket planes were treacherous at best, time bombs at worse. Saw a special on Wings Discovery, man, the fuel mix on some would burst into flames if mixed wrong, spilled on organic material or simply someone was staring at the motor cowling too long/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
The said more Komets were lost fueling than in combat!

<center></script>Bad Dog Brigade
Vulching can be a contact sport
When you get to hell, tell 'em Hawgdog sent you
http://users.adelphia.net/~hawgdog/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 11:25 PM
What is the ace's name? If you think the 262 is bad, try getting off the runway in a ME 163. The high octane fuel was so volitile that you would most likely explode on take off without ever leaving the ground. We must not forget however that the Jumo engines in the 262 were mostly premature models rushed into production that would sometimes need a complete overhaul after 24 flying hours. If you are sensitive with the throttle, the 262 is a hot rod /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

---------------------------------------
http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/109K.jpg


I STILL love my 109!



Message Edited on 08/02/0303:25PM by MackZ

adlabs6
08-02-2003, 11:30 PM
A nice plane indeed.

Another issue with the model is the mapping of the port gear door interior, which is wrong. Noticed that yesterday.

<html>
<body>
<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="600" align="center">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="000000">adlabs<font color="#ff9900">6</font></font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#42524e">
<div align="center"><font color="#999999">
http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/bin/sigtemp.JPG (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skins_historical_adlabs6.htm)
<small><font color="#ff6600">NEW</font> at mudmovers! Click the pic to download my skins from mudmovers.com!</small>
</font>
Skinner's Guide at mudmovers (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skinnersguide.htm) | Skinner's heaven (http://www.1java.org/sh) | IL2skins (http://www.il2skins.com)
<font color="#999999">
My Forgotten Battles Webpage (http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/index.html) Current Wallpaper: <font color="#999999">P-51D Flyover</font></font>

<A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zhiwg" TARGET=_blank>"Whirlwind Whiner"
The first of the few</A>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</body>
</html>

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 11:42 PM
The engines on it did indeed burst into flames, they still do lol, i have had 2 to date one a complete surge when it put a flame out of the intake longer than the aircraft and another where it decided the turbine IGV ring was an added luxury it no longer needed, was an amazing site so i was told like a mushroom cloud of metal coming vertically out of the top of the detuner, myself i was trying to read the gauges infront of me but it was shaking like a dog on heat

ShadowHawk__
08-02-2003, 11:49 PM
I hope they fixed the AIs problems in the campaigns where both engines aren't on properly and they end up driving off the runway and exploding.

-----------------------
http://www.geocities.com/tk_shadow_hawk/Signature.txt
-Death From Above

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 12:29 AM
VonShlagnoff wrote:
jet engines do not erupt like that
- they pop and fart and maybe spit a blade or two,

Mind if I ask you what kinda background you have with jet engines?

Spitting a blade or two means turbine failure, i.e. the engine is disintegrating. You lose one blade, the imbalance itself is enough to destroy the engine, and when those blades come out like bullets, they tear through everything. This isn't a flame, just curious


SSgt Tim Schuster
8MXS Inspection Section
Kunsan AB, Korea

-Defend the Dock!
-Accept Follow-on Shifts!
-Take the Fight Upstairs!

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 03:00 AM
Vonschlag, I have the immense pleasure of living about 30 minutes away from the 262 project in Everett, Wa and 30 minutes away the other direction from the guy that flies the restored 262. I have been a fly on the wall at Paine field, getting to hang out and talk with all the guys. I was there the day they bench tested the engines for the restored jets, and they are about half the size of the originals, and work great. I asked about the rev ups on the original 262s, and they said the engine catching on fire was a huge problem when advnacing the throttle. They said that it did catch fire quite frequently. Not really throw blades or fall apart, but catch fire.

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 03:12 AM
I agree on the placing of the sight in the cockpit, as it is now the pilot has to bend forward when trying to use the sight.
On the engines... Well, I don't complain, if it's flown right, as in real life with small adjustments, it's a wonderfull aircraft.
The guns on the other hand.... I can't count the number of occasions I've smashed right into the enemy after being blinded by the enormous flash the guns produce. I like getting in real close.

rgds

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 05:05 AM
I'm not saying there isn't a problem or two with FB's 262 engines. However, it seems to me that lots of guys add to those problems because they are so used to slamming the throttles around in the recips. That kind of poor throttle management in a recip leads to disaster in the 262.

And, who can blame them for the poor throttle management, really? In FB, it doesn't matter. In the recips I can jerk the throttles from balls-to-the-wall down to idle and then slam them back full again within .25 seconds all day, without so much as a single backfire. Please! Transfer this throttle management into the FB 262 and guys are going to flame engines right there on the ramp during startup.

I agree that the muzzle flashes of the 30mm cannons are a bit much. During an attack I usually close at an extremely high rate of speed and never fire until I'm within .30 of the target. Then, I only fire a one second ("one-one thousand") burst and immediately enter a climbing turn. Since all aiming was done before opening fire, the muzzle flashes are no problem for me. 80% of the time this one-pass-haul-*** results in the destruction of the target.

Personally, I love the 262; it's my plane of choice, despite the "engine bug". I look forward to any changes in a future patch, as it will just make it more deadly.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Unterschwarzen

Jasta 11 (http://jasta11.topcities.com/)

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 01:14 PM
The Jumo 004B werenâ´t what you would understand under an reliable turbo-jet engine, after 10 operational hours the engine went into maintainance, overall engine lifespan was about 25 hours. This was because metals of inferior quality had to be used in the full-production run, a result of the progressive shortage on quality raw materials in late war years, and the intense pressure from the RLM to field production aircraft fast, which all german late war designs were affected by. There were additional quirks with the Jumo 004B engines besides catching fire or exploding if going happy with the throttle, which are not modelled in FB.

============================
When it comes to testing new aircraft or determining maximum performance, pilots like to talk about "pushing the envelope." They're talking about a two dimensional model: the bottom is zero altitude, the ground; the left is zero speed; the top is max altitude; and the right, maximum velocity, of course. So, the pilots are pushing that upper-right-hand corner of the envelope. What everybody tries not to dwell on is that that's where the postage gets canceled, too.

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 09:53 PM
I am a gast turbine technician in the RAF with over seven years experience, mostly on C-130 and VC10 aircraft. I have seen a few engines loose blades some inbalance and destroy themselves some operate with a slight vibration. I saw a Herc engine put its compressor through its bleed air system, that was messy. I also heard of a Tornado engine that destroyed itself for no apparent reason, it was latter discovered to be a blade from the other engine, that was operating as normal, had been spat through the keel of the aircraft into the other engines casing. They only foud this out when they found the hole in the keel!

Maybe I am being too critical of the 262, but low tech jet engines often spit flame from the turbine and the compressor when the surge and stall, due to poor fuel flow management, BUT this does not always lead to an engine fire, prompt action by the pilot, eg closing HP and LP fuel valves can prevent this, ok you may lose the engine but you wont be a burger king advert. I think the point I am trying to make is that there is no middle ground with the 262s engines in FB, they are either working ok or they are on fire.

"They Gave All Their Tommorrows So That We Can Have Our Todays"

"They Gave All Their Tommorrows So That We Can Have Our Todays"

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 10:40 PM
VonShlagnoff wrote:
- I am a gast turbine technician in the RAF with over
- seven years experience, mostly on C-130 and VC10
- aircraft. I have seen a few engines loose blades
- some inbalance and destroy themselves some operate
- with a slight vibration. I saw a Herc engine put its
- compressor through its bleed air system, that was
- messy. I also heard of a Tornado engine that
- destroyed itself for no apparent reason, it was
- latter discovered to be a blade from the other
- engine, that was operating as normal, had been spat
- through the keel of the aircraft into the other
- engines casing. They only foud this out when they
- found the hole in the keel!

the old rule: "never walk behind a running engine" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I've read a survey about F86 making it home with ~50% blades lost,
of course significant different engines than 262

-
- Maybe I am being too critical of the 262, but low
- tech jet engines often spit flame from the turbine
- and the compressor when the surge and stall, due to
- poor fuel flow management, BUT this does not always
- lead to an engine fire, prompt action by the pilot,
- eg closing HP and LP fuel valves can prevent this,
- ok you may lose the engine but you wont be a burger
- king advert. I think the point I am trying to make
- is that there is no middle ground with the 262s
- engines in FB, they are either working ok or they
- are on fire.
-

I find it unrealistic that always both engine start burning, even at minimal errors. Also they are much to reliable if you operate just below the limits.

a more random flame out without destroying the engine/plane if you put the throthle back fast enough (maybe even restart of engine?) would be more interesting



quiet_man

second foundation member of the EURO_Snoopy fan club!

I'm quiet_man, but if I post I post quiet much /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 11:18 PM
The only problem that I see with the 262 is that in the hands of an expert it kicks too much ***.

_____________________________________
Proud flyer of IL2 Forgotten Battles: The home of the first, and only fully Kevlar covered airplanes...the Lagg 3 and I16 Rata.

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 11:21 PM
Unlike nearly every axial turbine engine that followed, the Jumo was not fitted with fuel regulators.

A modern turbine will not allow you to dump 100% fuel flow into the combustion chamber at low RPM as the regulator squeezes down on it.

Add too much throttle too quickly in the 262 and the combustion process is flooded and you get a detonation. That's the main cause of the engine fires.

<center>
Read the <a href=http://www.mudmovers.com/sturmovik_101/FAQ.htm>IL2 FAQ</a>
Got Nimrod? Try the unofficial <A HREF=http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=4870c2bc08acb0f130e5e3396d08d595>OT forum</A>

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 11:29 PM
quiet_man wrote:
-
- the old rule: "never walk behind a running engine"


Guess that the new one the old one goes: "never walk in front of a running engine" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 06:03 AM
Well, ya got the background and experience to know what you're talking about; Thanks for the info. I'm a CrewChief in the USAF, working on F16's now, been on F117's and F111's. Glad ta meetcha!


SSgt Tim Schuster
8MXS Inspection Section
Kunsan AB, Korea

-Defend the Dock!
-Accept Follow-on Shifts!
-Take the Fight Upstairs!

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 06:42 AM
Greetings all!
I agree with all who say the 262 is a great ride to catch.
Make no mistake I'm no ace, but I can hold my own. At first I was a little sceptical about trying the 262, but when I figured out what and what-not to do, I realized with that machine, you can own the sky. And yes, there are little 'inaccuracies' about it but what plane doesn't have some little thing that isn't quite right. Look at it this way, it makes it more of a challenge to fly by-the-seat-of-your-pants with your a$$ hairs a-flame... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-regards PJ-

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 08:57 AM
Glad to meet you too Tim, maybe I'm being too critical, or heavy handed on my throttle lever, but due to its desire to be a large firework I rarly fly the 262 which I think is a shame.

"They Gave All Their Tommorrows So That We Can Have Our Todays"