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Cupelix
11-20-2003, 09:17 PM
I was wondering what people thought of the different Bahro pillar area once you have to return the pillars. The void is gone, but you still have to jump in the hole to link out (my Relto page was couldy when I was there). When you fall, you can clearly see little islands and things below you; any thoughts as to what they are and if we'll ever see them close up?

Also - does anyone really get the logic of the two apparently different clefts? There was a sort of philosophical discussion on Linking in one of the other forums, but I'm not exactly sure what to make of having two distinct clefts; one of which Yeesha clearly has the ability to affect.

Speaking of Yeesha, she sure pulls a Batman like disappearing act at the end there...

Cupelix
11-20-2003, 09:17 PM
I was wondering what people thought of the different Bahro pillar area once you have to return the pillars. The void is gone, but you still have to jump in the hole to link out (my Relto page was couldy when I was there). When you fall, you can clearly see little islands and things below you; any thoughts as to what they are and if we'll ever see them close up?

Also - does anyone really get the logic of the two apparently different clefts? There was a sort of philosophical discussion on Linking in one of the other forums, but I'm not exactly sure what to make of having two distinct clefts; one of which Yeesha clearly has the ability to affect.

Speaking of Yeesha, she sure pulls a Batman like disappearing act at the end there...

Digitz1
11-20-2003, 09:40 PM
The first cleft appears old and unkept. The second cleft seems cleaner and newer. Plus it allows Yeesha to talk without coming from a recording and the rain to fall.

Having just signed on after finishing the game (happy dance), it's fresh in my mind.

I also loved the line that Yeesha said in that we would be given a new top that we would wear when the time was right to signify our support. Leaves us, the player, to make that decision.

Adamk456
11-20-2003, 09:46 PM
I think the islands you see are part of D'ni. Why it changes from a void to the underground city is still a mystery to me, though.

I'm just as confused about the two clefts. In the "second" cleft, Yeesha was really there, right? In the flesh? The fuzziness of the recorded holograms was gone. Oh well, maybe Live will clear up some of the mystery surrounding Yeesha.

Cupelix
11-20-2003, 09:47 PM
That doesn't really explain the "how" regarding the fact that there are two clefts. Where is the other one? Zandi's trailer is there, but none of his possessions are sitting outside. It's the first time we've ever seen any concept of concrete "alternate" versions of the same place.

::edit::
Yes, I also interpreted believe Yeesha was actually there, since she clearly walks away from where the projector would be able to create her, as well as the fact that the projector does not appear to be running. I also assume she leaves to then lead whatever those creatures were into the mountain.

bfioca
11-21-2003, 06:49 AM
Yeesha is a hottie in person

maybe it's the red hair...

jbhypno
11-21-2003, 07:48 AM
There was a previous discussion about this and we encountered problems reconsiling the books with the game since they seemed to contradict each other. Basically I belive it comes down to 2 possibilities.

1) Yeesha in her research found the original Book of Earth and introduced a change in the book to create the rain.

2) The book we were given was not actually a link back to the cleft but to a Cleft Age which was just very similar.

I think that the 1st is the most likely possibility. The link she gave us was most likely a lesser link that leads to the cleft but that can't induce changes to Earth like the Book of Earth could. Although I was told that it was implied in the stories that multiple links to an age weren't possible, I think that is wrong. I think that there can be only one master link which can affect an age, like Atrus' Riven book, but there can be multiple lesser links which can be used to return to an age. Without being able to create lesser links the D'ni would not have been able to return from the ages that they went to. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Also, I think it was agreed that D'ni was decaying, like Riven, and that the pillars needed to be removed so that the Barho could heal itsself. Once it had healed the pillars were returned so that the couldn't be abused. Yeesha didn't want us corrupted by the desire for power like she was at the begining.

JBhypno

Beta Tester
Guild of Greeters
Alien from beyond innerspace

IAmTheSteve
11-21-2003, 12:11 PM
My first post... hehe


Well, anyway, what gets me is that Yeesha, while holding the open book to the new cleft, says something about "Tomanah" (Sorry about the spelling, I forget) Well, I'm sure it was the same age in which Atrus, Catherine, and a very small Yeesha lived in during Exile.

I thought, "COOL! I get to go back!" And then... oh, same place... just more wet.

But I'm still satisfied.

But what happened to T'omonha? Or is T'omonha the same as Earth? or... Am I dumb?

Moleculor
11-21-2003, 12:17 PM
Yes, Yeesha is still alive.

Think about it. The D'ni typically live to be 200 or more. The Fall was 250 years ago. Yeesha is Atrus' kid, and wasn't born till after the Fall. How long, not sure, but at LEAST 25+ years (time for two pregnancies, giving birth to two boys, who had time enough to grow up and betray their father).

So it's only natural that Yeesha is still alive.

jbhypno
11-21-2003, 12:24 PM
Tomhanna means home. While Yeesha lived in the cleft it was her home so it was Tomhanna. Atrus did write a new age for him to live in. Since it was his new home he named it Tomhanna. So there is a Tomhanna Age and the cleft which was Yeesha's Tomhanna. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

JBhypno

Beta Tester
Guild of Greeters
Alien from beyond innerspace

linkerjpatrick
11-21-2003, 12:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jbhypno:
Tomhanna means home. While Yeesha lived in the cleft it was her home so it was Tomhanna. Atrus did write a new age for him to live in. Since it was his new home he named it Tomhanna. So there is a Tomhanna Age and the cleft which was Yeesha's Tomhanna. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

JBhypno

Beta Tester
Guild of Greeters
Alien from beyond innerspace<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


It was never written or said that Atrus wrote Tomahna.

jbhypno
11-21-2003, 12:41 PM
I could have sworn that it wan memtioned in Exile that he wrote it. I will have to play it again on the DVD to be sure. However, it would make sense that he wrote it since I think it would be unlikely for the D'ni to have created an age named home, since D'ni was their home. It might be possible that Atrus found the age and wrote Tomhanna on the cover when he decided to live there.

JBhypno

Beta Tester
Guild of Greeters
Alien from beyond innerspace

maztec
11-21-2003, 12:53 PM
Yeesha tells you were you're at and the book you get links you to both places. One to the Cleft in New Mexico and one to Tomahna. or however you spell that places name.

IAmTheSteve
11-21-2003, 01:07 PM
And you do get two new links in relto; however, it's in one book.

One is the cleft in rain, the other, is not.

jbhypno
11-21-2003, 01:18 PM
I didn't notice 2 pages in the book in the beta. I will finish Prime tonight and will check. That new book must be special as she implied if it has links to 2 different ages in one book. I've never seen that before in a D'ni book. D'ni books usually bring you to different places within the same age. I suppose that adding the page may have been the only way to introduce rain to the age. One side of the page would contain the link and the other the modifications to the age that created the rain. I think this is the most likely explination since it wouldn't violate how normal linking books operate. This would make the cleft and tomhanna the same age as stated before, part of the Book of Earth. The Tomhanna Age is separate and we haven't seen it since Exile.

JBhypno

Beta Tester
Guild of Greeters
Alien from beyond innerspace

Srikandi
11-21-2003, 01:44 PM
Yeesha states repeatedly that she can do things no other D'ni can do, so I think we can assume that the "laws of linking" don't apply to her...

I actually think the changes that occur should be interpreted symbolically rather than literally; we are essentially in Yeesha's subconscious, or a dreamscape. Issues like same/different don't really matter. The Cleft book gives us two aspects of the desert, which stands for the juncture of our reality with Yeesha's world; and we see two aspects of the Bahro cave, which symbolize the enslavement and emancipation of that people. States, temporal phases, interpretations.

On this view, perhaps the DRC represents the "rational", the "conscious" brain struggling to deal with the unconscious, which is however stubbornly illogical. There's plenty of evidence that the DRC are stumped by everything that has to do with Yeesha, including the multiplex nature of Relto, and the function of the Journey cloths.

Dillenger69
11-21-2003, 01:58 PM
In Exile I believe Atrus said "We call it Tohmana" meaning "we call it home" Atrus and Yeesha were raised in the same cleft on the Surface of D'ni.

Calling the whole of Earth Tohmana or D'ni is kind of like Zod talking to "the people of planet Houston". THey are just place names that are part of a larger place.

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billyat
11-21-2003, 02:30 PM
I have an important question about the end game: I had just touched a book that Yeesha's hologram had presented me. I was then called away from the computer and when I came back I was standing in the holo room and it was raining. Could someone fill me in on what I missed? Seems from these discussions Yeesha appeared in person and said something else. Anyhow, when I climbed out of the cleft I saw the Bahro ppl dancing on the volcano and the credits. On returning to relto I had this double-image book that can't be reset. Any way to redo just the end game so I can see Yeesha in person?

http://billyat.com/dnibillav.jpg

IAmTheSteve
11-21-2003, 02:43 PM
I dunno if this will work, but...

Try deleting the progress in an age by pushing the bottem clip.

Sure, you'll have to play the age again, but you already know the answers. I think taladahn may be the shortest to complete... or the eders?

It's possible it may reset everything from the end and you can re-do it.

Better than starting over!

JasperdogBSO
11-21-2003, 03:37 PM
You could also try writing the ending into the holograph machine again, to bring up the last holo of yeesha that you saw and make it so she presents the book to you again.

billyat
11-22-2003, 01:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasperdogBSO:
You could also try writing the ending into the holograph machine again, to bring up the last holo of yeesha that you saw and make it so she presents the book to you again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tried that Jasper. No cigar. Went to the cleft without rain (the one with rain did not have an operational imager), pressed the imager button and got Yeesha's long speech and touched the offered book but was linked to the rainy age. No Yeesha, no bahro peeps dancing on the volcano. Nada. Oh well, got nothing better to do till I get an invite to the prolog -- mite just start over, or try Steve's suggestion.

http://billyat.com/dnibillav.jpg

Corun
11-22-2003, 07:33 AM
As Srikandi points out, Yeesha says several times that she writes Ages beyond what the D'ni or even her parents could have done. This ie evidenced in the changes that occur to the Relto and the Barho caves throughout the game. The Relto gets "upgrades" and a big ol' Star Rift a la Riven that plunks you smack dab where the Riven artifacts landed. Coincidence? I don't think so. Clever manipulation of a skilled writer. Also the fissure on Relto disappears after we meet Yeesha on Earth Cleft and she gives you a link to an alternate Earth Cleft (the one with rain). As to that, there is a ton of information in the theories put out by quantum physicists about alternate universes, Einstein-Rosen bridges, and the like. It would be fun, but pointless to speculate on how the linking books relate to wormholes and E-R bridges and such. But I believe that the second Cleft Age is the one Yeesha wrote to emulate the original and give it the gift of rain her grandmother "danced for". I also believe it's going to contain other clues to the online game.

I still want to know what's going to happen to the book that has an unfinished linking panel in it. Is this going to be our personal Age that will configure itself relative to what puzzles we solve in Uru Live? Hmmmmm. That fact that the only functioning linking panel in that book goes back to the Baron's office on D'ni is interesting, especially in light of the fact that the office seemed to have been commandeered by Doug Sharper, maybe as a hideout.

Corun

billyat
11-22-2003, 04:52 PM
Can't figure out how to do invisible writing in this forum http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif O well, this is a spoiler thred anyway. But if you don't want to be spoiled read no further.

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In beta the unfinished panel was your Neighborhood that you shared with maybe 50(?) other explorers. The 'Hoods have ayoheek boards, a big beachball called Eddie, a well hidden improvement to your relto, and other goodies like a linking book to the Nexus -- which is used in conjunction with your KI to go to public, pprivate and personal ages.


http://billyat.com/dnibillav.jpg

[This message was edited by billyat on Sat November 22 2003 at 04:02 PM.]