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Pr0metheus 1962
04-12-2005, 10:26 PM
So I was 2 days out of St. Nazaire, December 12th 1943, on my 5th Atlantic patrol, when I was attacked by three destroyers. These guys just would not give up, and I found myself going deeper and deeper to try to lose them. I did everything I could to shake them, but nothing seemed to work. I kept getting depth charged, but we all know depth charges are no real threat, right? Wrong! I was at 160 meters when a depth charge actually hit the sky periscope (I know because I was looking through it at the time to see if I could see anything helpful). Of course, the conning tower immediately goes red and I scurry to the damage control to see if anything else was hit. We were really lucky - the tower contained the blast.

But the destroyers didn't stop there. The next depth charge attack damages the zentrale, the radio room and the forward sleeping quarters. Immediately water gushes in at high pressure. I have a damage team in place, and they immediately go to work. I'm hanging onto this career by the skin of my teeth! The damage team gets the zentrale leaks stopped and moves on to the radio room, the men stop the leak there, and move to the sleeping quarters which is filling rapidly with water. I can see that they're going to stop the leak, but just then we get fuel leaking into the boat and the radio room turns from yellow to red. The boat starts to go down. I'm losing her.

I shout 'Ausblasen!' and 'Auesserste kraft voraus!' - maybe if I blow the tanks and get the boat to the surface I can save my crew's lives. I send the damage team to the radio room to see if anything can be done - Verdammt doch mal! I didn't know a compartment could even turn red without killing you. Suddenly another depth charge hits the aft torpedo room and I can see I only have seconds left. I have time to send the repair team to stop the leak, but just as I do that, three aft compartments turn red. My last thoughts were of my family. I was not expecting to see them this Christmas (I was meant to be on patrol for at least 3 weeks), but I would never get to spend another Christmas with them.

My family (and the families of my crew) were finally notified in May 1944 that U-439 was missing, presumed destroyed.

--------------------------

It just goes to show that depth charges can be VERY deadly. I've seen so many people complain that they're ineffective. Tell that to Peter Geller and the crew of U-439, who went down to a watery grave in the Atlantic in the winter of 1943. And it's not like I take risks when I'm playing. I did my level best to get the boat out of that situation. I used all the lessons of the U-Boat Commander's Handbook, but nothing helped.

TheFastFreddie
04-12-2005, 11:23 PM
I'm glad to hear about this because I haven't had this experience yet. Sounds like they are much improved in '43 but have you ran into the same thing with convoys yet. I'm in mid-41 now and keep getting sent to BE65(3 times in a row) and I've only seen one destroyer(Convoy escort). How many repair qualified guys do you have? I've only got the one officer but have seen that some guys have 2 warrant officers repair qualified in their crew. Once the bar goes green it doesn't matter who else is in there right?

blue_76
04-12-2005, 11:34 PM
you made it to the end of 1943, not many commanders made it to that time.. you should be proud of yourself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
i am still in 1941, commanding a type VIIB and i barely made it out alive when i got cornered by a destroyer and 3 patrol boats.. to make matters worse, depth under keel was 33 meters! i immediately setup a damage team and dove to 20 meters all ahead slow.. after about 5 mins the destroyer detected me and dropped a few depth charges i ordered all ahead flank right full rudder took a few hits to my stern, but the damage team took care of that. then i ordered periscope depth hoping i'd get a lucky shot at the destroyer, she was positioned bearing about 200deg so i quickly switched my stern torpedo to magnetic and 7 meters depth, got the solution from my weapons officer and fired the tropedo. she was about 430 meters away from me, but was going about 15 knots and was making a hard turn for another pass at me. at this point, the patrol boats were firing machine guns at my periscope so i dove and waited to see if the torpedo would hit, but no luck.. so i decided to take my chances close to the bottom. i ordered 32 meters but once i reached there, i noticed the time compression turned orange color, perhaps this was due to my proximity to the sea floor.. but to my surprise after i ordered silent running the destroyer managed to get a few pings on me but dropped the charges at a distance and eventually lost me! took about 20 minutes then i ordered 25 meters to be on the safe side and waited for another 1 hr in time compression then periscope depth.. they were all gone. only damage i got from that encounter was 91% hull integrity http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
now, if this encounter was in 1944, i have no doubt i would've met a quick end.

Pr0metheus 1962
04-12-2005, 11:36 PM
It all depends on the destroyer crew. Much like early U-Boat crews, early destroyer crews are fairly useless. That's why the Ubootwaffe called 1939 to 1941 the happy times.

As for convoys, there's a bug that's been identified that stops many of the destroyers (that are supposed to be escorting convoys) from showing up. I'm sure it will be fixed soon.

Repair guys - same as you: one officer and just regular crewmen. Yup: once the bar is green you're all set.

Pr0metheus 1962
04-12-2005, 11:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blue_76:
you made it to 1944, not many commanders made it to that time.. you should be proud of yourself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, I didn't quite make it to '44, and sadly, I started in May '43, so I only lasted 5 patrols (or 7 months).

Pr0metheus 1962
04-12-2005, 11:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blue_76:
if this encounter was in 1944, i have no doubt i would've met a quick end. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've run two careers in 1943, and after 6 patrols I can assure everyone that 1943 is no picnic - not at all. If 1943 is this difficult, 1944 is only going to be worse. It is at least 'possible' to survive long-term in 1943, if you're lucky and very smart. I can't imagine what 1944 must be like, with veteran destroyer crews and all that anti U-Boat technology.

I just hope the developers keep the depth charges and AI the same in all later patches, because in my opinion it's perfect as it is. Yesterday, in another 1943 patrol, I was driven off from a huge convoy by three destroyers. I was lucky then because they never managed to get a solid fix on my boat. Once they get you fixed, there is no escape.

blue_76
04-12-2005, 11:45 PM
fixed that, don't know why i put 1944, must be the time.. almost 2am lol anyway, 5 patrols in '43 is still very good. what are your realism settings? i have mine on 91% with event view and weapons officer solutions.
the thing that impressed me about my situation was the fact that earlier i had sunk a t3 tanker and 2 c3 cargo ships in the same area.. not long after that i encountered the destroyer with the patrol boats.. so one of the victims must've radioed in http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tiberonmagnus
04-12-2005, 11:46 PM
Its funny, I ran into a large convoy full of military supplies which were being shipped on about 4-5 C3's, 6 C2's, a large number of smaller merchant ships and also a nice amount of destroyers patrolling the area.

I sank 3 merchant ships, 1 looked to be full of oil drums, the other 2 looked to be carrying tanks and supplies. Then I see that I've been spotted by several destroyers, but before I submerged into a crash dive, I radio'd it in. When I was about 30 meter's under the water and rigged for silent running, It started to look as if it were raining under the ocean. Looking harder, I see a line of destroyers coming my way at high speeds, each of them tossing depth charges like mad into the water. I see this big wall of barrels coming my way, suprised to say that I made it, my sub was severly damaged, but I made it.

Yea, I would say depth charges if close enough can cause some serious damage, other then that they just rock your sub from side to side.

Pr0metheus 1962
04-12-2005, 11:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blue_76:
fixed that, don't know why i put 1944, must be the time.. almost 2am lol anyway, 5 patrols in '43 is still very good. what are your realism settings? i have mine on 91% with event view and weapons officer solutions. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know what the percentage is, but the only thing I have that's not realistic is the free camera view, and I never use that in a situation where it would give me an unfair advantage.

Pr0metheus 1962
04-12-2005, 11:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blue_76:
the thing that impressed me about my situation was the fact that earlier i had sunk a t3 tanker and 2 c3 cargo ships in the same area.. not long after that i encountered the destroyer with the patrol boats.. so one of the victims must've radioed in http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had that happen yesterday. In my other 1943 career (the one where my commander is still among the living) I was patrolling the islands west of Scotland (shortly before I attacked the convoy I was talking about before) when I found and torpedoed a C3. Shortly afterwards the place was crawling with destroyers and I even saw an ASW plane (fortunately it didn't see my periscope).

Nukem_Hicks
04-12-2005, 11:57 PM
Aye, this dialogue about depth charges being too weak is ridiculous. I was attempting to sail through the Channel fairly early in the war (1940) in my VIIB, 100% realism. I managed to evade most of the patrols thanks to the stormy seas but at one point, in my supreme idiocy, I fired a salvo at a DD that was crossing my bow with steam torps. Needless to say both missed and that DD came down on top of me with a bone in its teeth. She passed over me on my way down to 20m (don't you love how shallow the Channel is?) and rocked me, knocking my hull integrity down to 22%. I hit bottom at 27m and got the crew working on critical flooding in my bow torp room. They barely managed to plug the leaks before the compartment completely flooded, a development that would have ended my career. Fortunately for me the DD broke off contact and I managed to limp back to base. Those depth charges nearly did me in, however.

alanschu
04-13-2005, 12:02 AM
I think it also has to do with Depth Charge technology (and ASW detection abilities) getting better towards the end of the war.

I'm still going strong with my IXC in mid-1942. Not looking forward to the coming months. If I'm lucky I can dig up another 20k renown and patrol from the relatively safer XXI in the later parts of the war....providing I survive 1943 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Messervy
04-13-2005, 12:27 AM
Very, Very good Beeryus.
That`s how this sim is ment to be played. (not Nvidia).
I am not in my serrious attempt to survive yet, but I`ve started in 39 and it`s fairly interesting to experience the ever progressive development of allied ASW capability. I´m on 80% realism, managed to survive 31 patrols, however for now I am cheating a lot with free camera. FOR NOW IT`S A GAME, but next time will be for real and I expect my demise no later than in the begining of 43.

alanschu
04-13-2005, 12:33 AM
Oh, my realism is 85% because I don't care to learn the nuances of manual targetting.

It's just not fun for me. I don't want to have to whip out my ruler and protractor for a video game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

U161_Jaeger
04-13-2005, 12:43 AM
No matter what your settings may be this thread contined both good news (for me) and some good war stories http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

alanschu
04-13-2005, 01:09 AM
If it's still near the top, take a peek at my first Task Force story http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

That was crazy fun. Although it's kinda poorly written (blood was still pumping from the intensity of it all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

Johnny_JG2
04-13-2005, 01:39 AM
Nice Beeryus, I was in suspense http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I was rooting for you, and thought you were gonna pull out of it somehow.

I made a thread a couple weeks ago saying "are destroyers EVER gonna get me?". I was in 40 at the time I think. Well, now I'm december of 41 and I've had some very close calls. I'm careful around those things now, as they are more persistant and I see them getting better on average.

I used to think I was a lock to survive thru the end of the war. Lately I'm thinking I need a little luck to do that. If I die, that's the end for me- so I've been very careful. I play realistically, and never use camera views or anything to get an advantage. I just wait out the storm in the control room das boot style and get bearings from the sonarman.

I've had some really close calls and got hit pretty hard a few times by depth charges, and I don't think they are underpowered.

Booshka
04-13-2005, 05:12 AM
It is currently 1944 for me and the surface is almost a no-go area, no sooner do i Surface than planes attack often in numbers of 4 or more and boy are they getting accurate, they will even find you when you throw up the snorkel. As for the destroyers, I will say this.. I NOW HAVE ULCERS!! and NO HAIR! and my crew call me Schizo!

msxyz
04-13-2005, 05:42 AM
AFAIK the depth charges are a bit underpowered. A real depth charge exploding 30 meters away from the boat could cause serious damage to the hull. The deeper the boat, the higher the damage radius of the charge is since the hull itself is already under heavvy stress due to water pressure.

I've found a compromise between realism and SH3: I play so that even if my boat receive the slightest damage, I reload from the last save.

Pr0metheus 1962
04-13-2005, 08:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by msxyz:
AFAIK the depth charges are a bit underpowered. A real depth charge exploding 30 meters away from the boat could cause serious damage to the hull.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only info I've seen about depth charges says that they have to be within 5 metres to have any chance of breaching the hull. 30 meters 'might' cause minor damage, but it's certainly not going to cause serious damage.

mightyduck100
04-13-2005, 09:59 AM
Most of the guys complaining about depth charges are probably still fairly early in the war like me so the DD's are inaccurate in hunting and depth charging. I'm late 40 and its still pretty plain sailing.

You guys have some great stories from 43, 44 though. Hopefully I'll make it that far and have a good story to compare.

ctbrosky1974
04-13-2005, 10:42 AM
DD's and depth charges are definitely not something to mess around with...even in Nov 1942.

I was cruising along in the English Channel, surfaced at night when I had the misfortune of encountering an aircraft carrier with heavy escort at full compression. Bad news.

Before I could get myself out of compression I was being shelled by three destroyers. I dove to 20m and went silent. These guys weren't having any of it. They DC'd the **** out of my boat and it didn't take them long to cause me to load up my last save.

BTW, that was the only time I've ever seen an aircraft carrier. Quite a shame I didn't have the opportunity to punch some holes in him.

msxyz
04-13-2005, 10:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
The only info I've seen about depth charges says that they have to be within 5 metres to have any chance of breaching the hull. 30 meters 'might' cause minor damage, but it's certainly not going to cause serious damage. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There was an interesting topic on the Subsim forums about depth charges with some more info about their effectiveness.

http://www.de220.com/Armament/Depth%20Charges/DepthCharges.htm

Here is an interesting link. Notice how 30 yards (1 yd = 0.91m) is reported as the distance from which a depth charge can cause damage to the hull. Which would mean (under most cases) some degree of flooding/leaking

DRB_Hookech0
04-13-2005, 11:50 AM
Well, if you look at the Uboat losses for the entire war, you will see that around April/May 43....the allies start to extract a heavy toll on the uboats. The convoys got better protected, the Air Gap shrunk, and hunter/killer groups roamed all over the place. The Bay of Biscane was turned into a death trap and from what I have read, many, many Uboats were sunk on their way out or making runs into port. By 44, running on the surface anywere other than the air gap was asking to get bombed. The early German air search radar, nicknamed "The Biscane Cross" was acting like a beacan to allied sub hunters in the sky, a fact the germans didnt learn until much damage and many subs had been lost. Also early in the war very few escorts had HF/DF, "Huff/Duff" gear to triangleate Uboat transmissions. By April 43, many Allied ships and even aircraft carried them so once a Uboat made a call, everyone in the area knew pretty much where to look even if they could not read the mail. I read the account of a Uboat captain that started as a ensign in 1940 and ended when Germany surrendered, that trying to get out of Brest, he was adveraging 7 miles on the surface between crash dives in the Bay of Biscane.....pretty scarry.

I'm on patrol 16 in Jan 1941, out of Brest in my VIIC, so I am dreading the post "Happy Times"

alanschu
04-13-2005, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
The only info I've seen about depth charges says that they have to be within 5 metres to have any chance of breaching the hull. 30 meters 'might' cause minor damage, but it's certainly not going to cause serious damage. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was for the 600 lb ones that the British don't use too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


I would determine "Hull Damage" to be a little vague. Scratching the hull could be "Hull Damage" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But it seems no one really knows. I've seen websites that say all sort of information, so I wonder where they get it.

I also wonder how reliable the sources are. Mine admittedly isn't....as it's from wikipedia. But I've learned that I cannot even trust those that are "experienced" with certain subjects (including this one). A Destroyer Captain could easily inadvertently exaggerate the capabilities of the depth charge, just like the U-Boat Captains exaggerated the effectiveness of their acoustic torpedoes.

Pr0metheus 1962
04-13-2005, 12:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by msxyz:
Notice how 30 yards (1 yd = 0.91m) is reported as the distance from which a depth charge can cause damage to the hull. Which would mean (under most cases) some degree of flooding/leaking <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're reaching. As Alanshu says, 'Damage' can mean scratches. Unless we get more info, we can't just assume that 'damage' means significant damage. The only info I've seen regarding significant damage talks about 5 meters to get a good chance (not a certainty) of rupturing the hull.

The fact is, the devs seem to have depth charges about right, because if they were as powerful as you suggest, I doubt you could ever survive a career, and many U-Boat commanders (around 75% of them) did.

DRB_Hookech0
04-13-2005, 05:39 PM
Just to drive the point home about the post "Happy Times"

Uboats losses per year/month:

1939 (9 total)
Sept-2
Oct-4
Nov-2
Dec-1

1940 (22 total)
Jan-1
Feb-5
Mar-0
Apr-7
May-1
June-0
July-1
Aug-3
Sept-0
Oct-1
Nov-2
Dec-0

1941 (35 total)
Jan-0
Feb-0
Mar-5
Apr-2
May-1
June-4
July-1
Aug-3
Sept-2
Oct-2
Nov-5
Dec-10

1942 (96 total)
Jan-3
Feb-2
Mar-6
Apr-3
May-4
June-3
July-12
Aug-9
Sept-10
Oct-16
Nov-13
Dec-15

1943 (237 total)
Jan-6
Feb-19
Mar-15
Apr-15
May-41 (Allied offensive against Uboats begins)
June-17
July-37
Aug-25
Sept-9
Oct-26
Nov-19
Dec-8

1944 (241 total)
Jan-15
Feb-20
Mar-25
Apr-21
May-23
June-25
July-23
Aug-34
Sept-23
Oct-12
Nov-8
Dec-12

1945 (153 total)
Jan-12
Feb-22
Mar-34
Apr-57
May-28

Grand total 793 iron coffins (including U505 and U570 which were captured at sea)

Johnny_JG2
04-13-2005, 06:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
I doubt you could ever survive a career, and many U-Boat commanders (around 75% of them) did. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't know this statistic.

In the beginning of Das Boot, it said something to the effect of: There were 40,000 German sailors on U-boats, and 30,000 didn't survive.

NZ_Wanderer
04-13-2005, 08:31 PM
Well, I'm only on 28% realism (can you tell I'm a newbie) and at the moment I am in December 1939 and last night missions I can tell you was the worst one I had so far...

I had to patrol over the other side of the english channel, so here I was cruising on the surface through the english channel just after midnight when all of a sudden out of the sea mist came a DD at full speed....

Dived to 15m and went silent, but alas he got me, starting to flood 3 of my compartments (luckily my repair crew fixed that) - at one stage the rear of the uboat was nearly clearing the surface thats how much power those depth charges had..

Anyway, for the next hour and a half (real time) I tried everything I could to get rid of this thing that was after me, went to 20m, then down to the bottom, then back up to periscope depth all with no success, when I thought I had shaken him back he came again (My poor repair crew were working nearly flat out all of that time, no sooner that I repaired someting the Depth charges broke something again)...

In the end, whenever he started his next run I would order flank speed along with hard port or starboard and run until my little sub turned red again then dropped to silent again.. - did this for over 15 mins and finally got far enuff away from him that he was killing fishes instead of me....

Then to put the final cap on, along came 2 other DD and 3 Patrol boats.. - Luckily for me at this stage he had well and truely lost me so couldn't tell the reinforcements where I was and I limped away at 20m silent running..

I had to abort my mission and head back to base with 5 dead crew and a very sorry looking submarine...

I don't care what anyone says, those depth charges are LETHAL, and I was very very lucky to get away alive (even on my easy settings)...

irR4tiOn4L
04-13-2005, 09:25 PM
I doubt depth charges are underpowered, or that they cause serious damage at 30 metres.

quote from uboat.net:
http://www.uboat.net/allies/technical/depth_charges.htm

Even though the massive explosive power of the 600-pound charge was impressive to both the escort and the U-boat, highly unnerving to the latter even, the depth charge was not the answer to the U-boat threat. The pressure hull of the U-boat was strong enough to withstand anything but a charge exploding 10 or 20 feet from its hull. To place the weapon this close to the U-boat was extremely difficult to say the least, especially since the U-boat normally took drastic evasive maneuvers at the very last moment

quillan
04-13-2005, 09:34 PM
I'm noticing an increase in DD ability already. In my career, it's currently August 1942. The last couple of patrols I made, I saw more than one "Enemy task force" following the convoy route north of Ireland into Liverpool. So, this time I decided to go out of my way to intercept one. The first report popped up in AM28 when I was only about 2 days out of St. Nazaire, so I couldn't get there to intercept it. I went on towards my assigned grid of AL78, when two more popped up. One was in AM, near where the other was reported earlier, the other was in AK, which I went for. I had the course plotted out well in advance, submerged about 2 hours before they got to the intercept point, and was moving towards them. Once I saw it, and how close the ships were running together, I decided to try swinging around to match their course, come up towards the rear once they had passed over me, and launch a spread of stern shots. I was moving at 19 meters depth, at a speed of 1 knot, rigged for silent running, and the Clemson on point detected me somehow. It started pinging about 500 meters away, and things got hectic from that point. I did manage to sink two ships, a T2 tanker and a C3 (blindly fired a Falke homing torpedo using manual input into the TDC from a depth of 19 meters), and got away, but they kept hounding me. Just 3 months earlier I would have been able to slip up into any convoy I encountered that way. Not now.

Nukem_Hicks
04-13-2005, 09:48 PM
My faith in the dangerous nature of depth charges was affirmed early in the war during a Channel trip. I was attacked by a destroyer in 27m of water and the first salvo alone left me with a 22% hull integrity. I barely escaped with my life on 100% realism; my crew nearly failed to patch the leaks before my boat was flooded. This was in late 1939, as well. I wouldn't have lasted a minute in the same situation in 1942 or later.

Pr0metheus 1962
04-14-2005, 12:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Johnny_JG2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
I doubt you could ever survive a career, and many U-Boat commanders (around 75% of them) did. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't know this statistic.

In the beginning of Das Boot, it said something to the effect of: There were 40,000 German sailors on U-boats, and 30,000 didn't survive. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's true. 3/4 of U-boat crews died, but only 1/4 of all U-boat commanders died. Commanders were rotated out of front-line service after a number of patrols (usually between 10 and 20), whereas U-boat crews (NCOs and other ranks) usually had to serve throughout the war.