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VW-IceFire
01-14-2007, 09:38 PM
Question about the Yak-3 VK107 and Yak-9UT armament.

The descriptions in the various PDF files indicate that the Yak-3 VK107 had two B-20 cannons installed. In game it has a single 20mm ShVAK and 12.7m UBS. I realize details about this plane are probably spotty...just not sure if this is an oversight or not.

Similar to that, the Yak-9UT, which has forever been equipped with a N-37 cannon and twin 20mm ShVAK. I was reading again in the PDF that these should be B-20 cannons.

Fixes to be made or correct?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Pollack2006
01-15-2007, 05:12 AM
Probably just a typo.

In the 1946 aircraft guide the Dora is described as having 4 cannons.

VW-IceFire
01-15-2007, 08:36 PM
Typo for both? What about the Yak-9UT. It makes more sense, in my mind, to have a pair of B-20 cannons and not ShVAK's because the ShVAK's were quite heavy while the B-20 was lighter than the UBS machine guns that the cannons replace.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Takamaka
01-17-2007, 04:37 PM
In fact the -9UT in the game do not even have a NS-37, but a gun far different than the one on the Yak-9T for instance. I sent a message a couple years ago to the development team about the problem with the armament of the -9UT (with the corresponding track). So the armament of the -9UT should be 1 NS-37 and 2 B-20S as opposed to what is done actually. Note that 282 Yak-9UT have been produced with a NS-23 and 2 B-20S (the NS-23 does not seem to have been modelized in the simulation yet, think about an much improved version of the current 23mm modelized for Russian planes). On the up side, a change for the -9UT (whether for a NS-23 or NS-37 as a main gun) is limited to the data, while for the yak-3 this is another story.
Yes the 3 VK-107A comes with the wrong armement, and also accordingly a wrong 3D model for the guns. It comes as a surprise when you look at the documentation of the game and see that they have it right in the document but not in the simulation. As a result, the 3 VK-107A does not hit as hard as it should (which is a shame). The proper armement for the whole serie (40 from the plant 31, and 8 from plant 282) did have 2 B-20S for most of the 48 built while some where equipped with 1 B-20M and 2 B-20S (ala Yak-3P). In my documents I never have seen anything about a ShVak-20 and a UBS. The choice of armement in the game is therefore really suprising (note that from August 1944 (13th batch from plant 282, while in plant 31 it was from the begining) all Yak-3 ever produced had 3 guns. The main reason was that by the end of the war, there was a need for an increase of the weight of fire.
Also, it is really clear according to my documentation that 40 of the 48 -3 VK-107A ever produced (in fact the 40 first from plant 31) were all metal planes. The second batch of -3 VK-107A that was cancelled after only 8 planes from the plant 282 were considered as a set back from the ones produced earlier as they were marking the come back of a mixed construction in a time when jets were the clear path for the futur.

So let's hope that the -9UT will be fixed after so many years, ideally with two set of armamenent, ie:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>NS-37 + 2 B-20S
<LI>NS-23 + 2B-20S[/list]
and the -3 VK-107 will have the following choices:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>2 B-20S
<LI>B-20M + 2 B-20S[/list]

DKoor
01-17-2007, 04:48 PM
Good find Ice and Takamaka.
I hope that this will get adressed too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

<hr class="ev_code_hr" />http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5638/g14hartmannlh1.jpg (http://airwarfare.com/mediawiki-1.4.5/index.php?title=Main_Page)<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">@ STURMOVIK?: 1946 - coming November 2006 in ETO and Australia

koivis
01-29-2007, 05:51 PM
BUMP!

VW-IceFire
01-29-2007, 09:38 PM
Thank you Takamaka for the information. I thought I wasn't crazy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think we have the NS-23...or is that the N-23. It came in 1946 and is on the Mig-9 is it not?

mynameisroland
01-31-2007, 07:47 AM
The Yak-3VK-107 also has the same 900km/h break up speed as the Fw 190D9 and the Tempest and it is some 80km/h more capable than the Spitfire VIII in this area.

What alterations were made to the aircraft which allowed it to dive to these proportionately greater speeds ?

Takamaka
01-31-2007, 02:39 PM
If I do believe the data from IL2 Compare most of the 23mm in the games are Vya-23.

The NS-23 was a much lighter gun than the VYa-23 (37kg compared to 68kg). However the muzzle velocity was reduced for the NS-23 compared to the VYa (from 880m/s to 690m/s). The NS-23 was used from '45 and it equipped notably the following planes (present in the simulation): Yak-9UT, Mig-9, IL-10

The NS-37 is modelized for the Yak-9T and the Yak-9M. The ROF is 4rps (round per second). In the game the Sh37 for the Yak-9UT has a ROF of 1rps.... only 4 times slower than what is expected.


mynameisroland wrote:
What alterations were made to the aircraft which allowed it to dive to these proportionately greater speeds?

I have previously answered that question but in fact I was not completely right. The total production of Yak-3 VK-107 was 51 not 48 like I previously stated (or like it is stated in 1946 documentation). Forty eight (48) all metal were produced by plant 31 (Tbilissi), 40 in 1945 plus 8 more in 1946. While 3 more were produced by Saratov (plant 282) in 1946.
All planes produced by plant 31 (48 total), were all metal planes. While the 3 produced in plant 282 were mixed construction (metal wing and fuselage with plywood skinning).
It was planned to produce a batch of 75 Yak-3 VK 107A in plant 31, only 48 were produced before the plant switch to the Yak-15 production. While plant 282 was scheduled to produce 30 Yak-3 VK-107A, with the batch halted after the 3 first planes.

Note:

The version from plant 31 had the following characteristics:
Max speed at sea level: 611kph (380mph)
Max speed at 5,750m (18,860ft): 720kph (447mph)
Time to 5,000m (16,400ft): 3.9m
Climb in a combat turn: 1,500m (4,920ft).

The version from plant 282:
Max speed at sea level: 600kph (373mph)
Max speed at 5,750m (18,860ft): 696kph (432mph)
Time to 5,000m (16,400ft): 4.3m

Takamaka
02-07-2007, 07:22 AM
ReadMe of 4.08 is silent about modifications for Yak-9UT and Yak-3 VK-107. I guess it is another patch that is not fixing the issue... just more than 2 years (for the Yak-9UT) after it was bring to the attention of Oleg's team. I also doubt they remove extra ammos from FW-190D9 too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

GooblyGeck
05-13-2007, 12:05 PM
sorry for grave digging but...

what are the chances of the Yak-3VK-107 being fixed (ie new patch)? Very small with BoB around the corner?

tigertalon
05-13-2007, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by mynameisroland:
The Yak-3VK-107 also has the same 900km/h break up speed as the Fw 190D9 and the Tempest and it is some 80km/h more capable than the Spitfire VIII in this area.

What alterations were made to the aircraft which allowed it to dive to these proportionately greater speeds ?

Yak-3 VK107 was a full metal plane.

GooblyGeck
05-13-2007, 12:23 PM
yes. but the more pressing concern was the armorment - as of now it is not historically armed and therefore has a far weaker punch than it should

VW-IceFire
05-13-2007, 02:19 PM
Its missing a gun...that'd be harder to fix than them just changing the guns I suspect. At the very least they could give us two B-20 cannons on the Yak-3 VK-108 and fix the Yak-9UT with the proper B-20 cannons instead of ShVAK. I don't think this problem was immediately noticed because when the game came out the B-20 and ShVAK were identical (as far as I could tell) but they altered the properties later on.

TheGozr
05-13-2007, 10:58 PM
Well in what it's on the sim and what was in reality are very differents . But why argue ? So much things are wrong but they will be better down the road with the new sim generation.
Question of the yak3 107 engine, well this is 1946 meaning fantasy they could make it come with one of the yak9UT 57mn cannon if they wanted to.
We cannot argue with that. FM cannot work completely the engine doesn't support many aspects so.. heart braking but i guess we have to enjoy them like they are now and come to the server "Normandie-Niemen" where we can maybe meet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

mynameisroland
05-14-2007, 05:47 AM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
The Yak-3VK-107 also has the same 900km/h break up speed as the Fw 190D9 and the Tempest and it is some 80km/h more capable than the Spitfire VIII in this area.

What alterations were made to the aircraft which allowed it to dive to these proportionately greater speeds ?

Yak-3 VK107 was a full metal plane. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Metal was the base material for countless WW2 aircraft including the P51, Fw 190 blah blah blah

Yak-3 VK107 in IL2 is structurally stronger than F4U, P51, Fw 190 A, the list goes on.

Why? Was it renowned as an excellent diver?

tigertalon
05-14-2007, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by mynameisroland:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
The Yak-3VK-107 also has the same 900km/h break up speed as the Fw 190D9 and the Tempest and it is some 80km/h more capable than the Spitfire VIII in this area.

What alterations were made to the aircraft which allowed it to dive to these proportionately greater speeds ?

Yak-3 VK107 was a full metal plane. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Metal was the base material for countless WW2 aircraft including the P51, Fw 190 blah blah blah
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just wanted to point out that previous yaks were all primarily made out of wood, that's why they had worse dive characteristic compared to yak-3 VK107. It was a 1945 design, I don't find it surprising it can outdive older designs. Actually I'd be surprised if it didn't dive as well as 190 or P51.

DKoor
05-14-2007, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
Just wanted to point out that previous yaks were all primarily made out of wood, that's why they had worse dive characteristic compared to yak-3 VK107. It was a 1945 design, I don't find it surprising it can outdive older designs. Actually I'd be surprised if it didn't dive as well as 190 or P51. +1
this aircraft was considered as Soviets best by their internal tests..... no wonder why.

It was "the beast" for its time... and with improved quality of production + metal + all minor upgrades until late war so I'm not surprised with all this.

VW-IceFire
12-17-2010, 04:10 PM
Sorry for the necrothreaddeage.

I'm wondering if Takamaka, or anyone else still kicking around, has any solid documentation or book published information that I can send to Team Daidalos on this subject.

I'm going to gather what I can and send it along. Perhaps we can get these mistakes corrected in a future version.