PDA

View Full Version : Ezio is not a wise Assassin?



Gasketfuse
08-21-2011, 08:24 AM
So, I was really expecting Ezio to be like this badass old guy in Revelations, a mentor-like figure, who was incredibly wise and awesome and stuff. But looking at the Gamescon footage, I was surprised to see the opposite was going on. The main thing that was bugging me was when he assassinated the bald guy and he said, "Requiescat in pace, bastardo."
Remember the Vieri assassination, where Ezio was all ****ed off and cussing at Vieri? And then Uncle Mario came and was like, "Ezio, show some respect!" and gave Vieri a proper death. I thought that the whole point of that was that, from then on, when Ezio killed someone, he said something respectful ("Requiescat in pace") to them because he had become wiser.
As Altair put it, "No man should pass from this world without some kindness."

In short, I was hoping Ezio would be more of a wise figure now that he's older and more experienced, but he is very different from how I thought he would be.

ProdiGurl
08-21-2011, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Gasketfuse:
So, I was really expecting Ezio to be like this badass old guy in Revelations, a mentor-like figure, who was incredibly wise and awesome and stuff. But looking at the Gamescon footage, I was surprised to see the opposite was going on. The main thing that was bugging me was when he assassinated the bald guy and he said, "Requiescat in pace, bastardo."
Remember the Vieri assassination, where Ezio was all ****ed off and cussing at Vieri? And then Uncle Mario came and was like, "Ezio, show some respect!" and gave Vieri a proper death. I thought that the whole point of that was that, from then on, when Ezio killed someone, he said something respectful ("Requiescat in pace") to them because he had become wiser.
As Altair put it, "No man should pass from this world without some kindness."

In short, I was hoping Ezio would be more of a wise figure now that he's older and more experienced, but he is very different from how I thought he would be.

Well I'd say that every Assassin is probably their own man/woman and may not be identical to their elders before them or what they were taught. My thought is that if you've taken the extreme path of wiping someone out [for whatever good reason], you've already become their judge & jury & carried out the ultimate sentence - the nice sentiments afterward really wouldn't mean much in my view.

In ACB, I just got done with the "Exit Stage Right" Mission & he let the bad guy live there.

But w/ this bald guy in the previews I've seen, he pretty much came close to taking Ezio out, so he might take that very personally and deal with him differently than other targets he takes down in the game. Who knows, we don't know enough of ACR by small sneak peaks to form an educated decision yet.

SupremeCaptain
08-21-2011, 09:10 AM
The death scene was cut to avoid spoilers. We don't know if the Bald Guy in a Cape said something to insult Ezio.

itsamea-mario
08-21-2011, 09:25 AM
After replaying AC 2 I always feel like he's going to say bastardo, just seams to roll off the tounge.
Though I was surprised when he said it to leandros, I can understand saying it to Rodrigo, he was responsible for the death of his family and ezio had devoted his life pretty much to killing him.
Then again we dont know all the details about leandros. Chances are he was responsible for the occupation of masayaf and may have killed a lot of assassins.

RzaRecta357
08-21-2011, 09:25 AM
We know nothing of this Templar. Just because he calls a man who tried to kill him a bastard means nothing. Don't you ever stop howling? As in Ezio heard his annoying banter and screaming for longer than we did.

Ezio before the game is sitting on a boat pondering and letting the mist hit him in the face as he reads the codex Altair created. A Codex more extensive than the second game led us to believe.

He is wise as Altair, who puttered around his Masyaf castle learning from the apple and recording it to paper.

dchil279
08-21-2011, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by SupremeCaptain:
The death scene was cut to avoid spoilers. We don't know if the Bald Guy in a Cape said something to insult Ezio.
Oh thank god, i thought they were going to go the ACB templar agent way and just have an animus cutscene with Ezio saying RIP. This makes sense though.

RzaRecta357
08-21-2011, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
After replaying AC 2 I always feel like he's going to say bastardo, just seams to roll off the tounge.
Though I was surprised when he said it to leandros, I can understand saying it to Rodrigo, he was responsible for the death of his family and ezio had devoted his life pretty much to killing him.
Then again we dont know all the details about leandros. Chances are he was responsible for the occupation of masayaf and may have killed a lot of assassins.


The Secret Crusade sees Altair disband Masyaf of assassins just before the Mongols attack.

TachyonicRage
08-21-2011, 03:37 PM
On the E3 trailer Leandros tried to do something very insulting to Ezio "Hanging" Ezio. if you thnk about it Leandros insults the Auditore who died by hanging and adds insult to injury by trying to hang ezio. so i think he a deserves a bastardo but if you noticed after that the altair memories explained altair's take on last rites and as ezio is trying to learn more about his legendary mentor, he might take into considertion on being thoughtful in the lst rites

notafanboy
08-21-2011, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by TachyonicRage:
On the E3 trailer Leandros tried to do something very insulting to Ezio "Hanging" Ezio. if you thnk about it Leandros insults the Auditore who died by hanging and adds insult to injury by trying to hang ezio. so i think he a deserves a bastardo but if you noticed after that the altair memories explained altair's take on last rites and as ezio is trying to learn more about his legendary mentor, he might take into considertion on being thoughtful in the lst rites
and he de-hooded Ezio. You never de-hood an assassin ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Azula2005
08-21-2011, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by SupremeCaptain:
The death scene was cut to avoid spoilers. We don't know if the Bald Guy in a Cape said something to insult Ezio.


This is perfect ^

We all know that Ezios anger does get the best of him, he keeps it all to himself and when can't hold it anymore he'll rage.

Remember the Da Vinci disappearance? Whe Ducio says that Ezio's sister didn't like to open her legs in Firenze but in Rome she's the leader of Rosa..
Ezio took enough insults and punched him in the face and broke hes nose

We'll have to wait and see why Ezio got so ****ed off at Leandros

Rakudaton
08-21-2011, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
He is wise as Altair, who puttered around his Masyaf castle learning from the apple and recording it to paper.

I don't think you quite appreciate Altair's accomplishments.

I mean, come on. Paper was, like, really expensive back then. He must have negotiated a pretty sweet deal with a paper company to write that codex. And he did his own illustrations too! A true genius, we will never see his like again.

agitatedchimp
08-21-2011, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Gasketfuse:
So, I was really expecting Ezio to be like this badass old guy in Revelations, a mentor-like figure, who was incredibly wise and awesome and stuff. But looking at the Gamescon footage, I was surprised to see the opposite was going on. The main thing that was bugging me was when he assassinated the bald guy and he said, "Requiescat in pace, bastardo."

If you watch on to the altair part at the end altair claims that everyone deserves a righteous Death or something along those lines i cant quote exact and as altair is ezios' mentor i guess that after experiencing altairs memeory Ezio will follow altairs' moral philosophy, and learn a new lesson after every Altair sequence, Which evidently will show big differences in Ezios' attitude before the end - game
Remember the Vieri assassination, where Ezio was all ****ed off and cussing at Vieri? And then Uncle Mario came and was like, "Ezio, show some respect!" and gave Vieri a proper death. I thought that the whole point of that was that, from then on, when Ezio killed someone, he said something respectful ("Requiescat in pace") to them because he had become wiser.
As Altair put it, "No man should pass from this world without some kindness."

In short, I was hoping Ezio would be more of a wise figure now that he's older and more experienced, but he is very different from how I thought he would be.

Warforger
08-21-2011, 04:23 PM
Oh well I wouldn't even stop there, just look at the cutscenes themselves. Supposedly the Assasin's are a secret organization NO ONE knows about, and yet here is their new master, going around TAKING ON WHOLE ARMIES! EVERYONE in his world seems to know about him and his organization from everyday townspeople to Cesare himself and yet.... NO ONE wrote down ANYTHING about them? No one wrote down anything exposing them to the outside world? I mean the Assasin's have enemies, why don't the Templars just get Cesare to write a huge book about them and print a load of copies and send them all over the world? Not even just Cesare what if say some common man did that? You can't go around killing everyone who does that because then it does as much good as letting them release the books and you'd become so unpopular it wouldn't even be funny. And yet all we know about them is that they were some Syrian army during the Crusades who were cast away for some reason.

dxsxhxcx
08-21-2011, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Rakudaton:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
He is wise as Altair, who puttered around his Masyaf castle learning from the apple and recording it to paper.

I don't think you quite appreciate Altair's accomplishments.

I mean, come on. Paper was, like, really expensive back then. He must have negotiated a pretty sweet deal with a paper company to write that codex. And he did his own illustrations too! A true genius, we will never see his like again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

don't forget what he did in the book The Secret Crusade (if we can take that into consideration), he did a lot of things while he was alive, too bad we won't be able to see everything in the game... =/

JJTHoukes
08-21-2011, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Warforger:
Oh well I wouldn't even stop there, just look at the cutscenes themselves. Supposedly the Assasin's are a secret organization NO ONE knows about, and yet here is their new master, going around TAKING ON WHOLE ARMIES! EVERYONE in his world seems to know about him and his organization from everyday townspeople to Cesare himself and yet.... NO ONE wrote down ANYTHING about them? No one wrote down anything exposing them to the outside world? I mean the Assasin's have enemies, why don't the Templars just get Cesare to write a huge book about them and print a load of copies and send them all over the world? Not even just Cesare what if say some common man did that? You can't go around killing everyone who does that because then it does as much good as letting them release the books and you'd become so unpopular it wouldn't even be funny. And yet all we know about them is that they were some Syrian army during the Crusades who were cast away for some reason.

There were actually several Assassin Recruit missions in Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood in which you sent out your recruits to kill someone that tried to expose the assassins.
Including one person that was writing a book about the assassins.

Assassin_M
08-21-2011, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by ThyMolizzo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Warforger:
Oh well I wouldn't even stop there, just look at the cutscenes themselves. Supposedly the Assasin's are a secret organization NO ONE knows about, and yet here is their new master, going around TAKING ON WHOLE ARMIES! EVERYONE in his world seems to know about him and his organization from everyday townspeople to Cesare himself and yet.... NO ONE wrote down ANYTHING about them? No one wrote down anything exposing them to the outside world? I mean the Assasin's have enemies, why don't the Templars just get Cesare to write a huge book about them and print a load of copies and send them all over the world? Not even just Cesare what if say some common man did that? You can't go around killing everyone who does that because then it does as much good as letting them release the books and you'd become so unpopular it wouldn't even be funny. And yet all we know about them is that they were some Syrian army during the Crusades who were cast away for some reason.

There were actually several Assassin Recruit missions in Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood in which you sent out your recruits to kill someone that tried to expose the assassins.
Including one person that was writing a book about the assassins. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
not necessarily kill..

itsamea-mario
08-21-2011, 05:03 PM
We all know that Ezios anger does get the best of him, he keeps it all to himself and when can't hold it anymore he'll rage.

Remember the Da Vinci disappearance? Whe Ducio says that Ezio's sister didn't like to open her legs in Firenze but in Rome she's the leader of Rosa..
Ezio took enough insults and punched him in the face and broke hes nose

We'll have to wait and see why Ezio got so ****ed off at Leandros

I'm fairly sure he ended up beating him to death.
He seems to take insults to his family extremely personnally.

Calvarok
08-21-2011, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> We all know that Ezios anger does get the best of him, he keeps it all to himself and when can't hold it anymore he'll rage.

Remember the Da Vinci disappearance? Whe Ducio says that Ezio's sister didn't like to open her legs in Firenze but in Rome she's the leader of Rosa..
Ezio took enough insults and punched him in the face and broke hes nose

We'll have to wait and see why Ezio got so ****ed off at Leandros

I'm fairly sure he ended up beating him to death.
He seems to take insults to his family extremely personnally. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you read the Database entry, Duccio wasn't dead.

And being older and wiser doesn't mean you can't be disgusted by how absolutely evil and terrible someone is. Vieri was just 19 years old. Leandros is almost Ezio's age, and he's a thousand times more vile.

Assassin's are not Bhuddists. They are allowed to have moral outrage. the important thing is that they don't lose control. Ezio shoved Leandros's corpse away in disgust. When he was shaking Vieri, it was out of anger and sadness, and he would have kept going. Ezio has changed and become more mature. But he's not meant to be inhuman.

naran6142
08-21-2011, 08:05 PM
just cause ezio calls a guy a bad name after he kills him does not make him unwise

im pretty sure you can be evil and wise, look at al mualim he was evil but the way he understood the world, and the creed, made him wise

thedeadman_47
08-21-2011, 08:17 PM
long story short that the bald guy was a pain in ezio's butt long enough that ezio got so annoyed of him he was like : finally i killed that (insult)!!! like any normal human

Turkiye96
08-22-2011, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by SupremeCaptain:
The death scene was cut to avoid spoilers. We don't know if the Bald Guy in a Cape said something to insult Ezio.
wait realy? is that a guess or are you sure?
also i wouldn't be too happy with the guy who tries to hang me, make me injure my spine and hate me that much.

itsamea-mario
08-22-2011, 07:14 AM
How do we know he actually tried to hang him?

LightRey
08-22-2011, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by Turkiye96:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SupremeCaptain:
The death scene was cut to avoid spoilers. We don't know if the Bald Guy in a Cape said something to insult Ezio.
wait realy? is that a guess or are you sure?
also i wouldn't be too happy with the guy who tries to hang me, make me injure my spine and hate me that much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Of course they did. They did the same thing with the ACII demo and there's always a death scene after an assassination in the game.

Assassin_M
08-22-2011, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
How do we know he actually tried to hang him?
E3 Trailer

LightRey
08-22-2011, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by Assassin_M:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
How do we know he actually tried to hang him?
E3 Trailer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just because it was in the trailer doesn't mean it'll actually be part of the story. The ACB trailer wasn't either.

Assassin_M
08-22-2011, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
How do we know he actually tried to hang him?
E3 Trailer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just because it was in the trailer doesn't mean it'll actually be part of the story. The ACB trailer wasn't either. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ubi said that the E3 trailer is, for the first time, a part of the story.

JJTHoukes
08-22-2011, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
How do we know he actually tried to hang him?
E3 Trailer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just because it was in the trailer doesn't mean it'll actually be part of the story. The ACB trailer wasn't either. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe it has been confirmed by either Ubisoft or several reviewers that the beginning of the game will be very simular if not equal to the E3 trailer.

Jamison_J_B
08-22-2011, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by Gabrieldebeta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SupremeCaptain:
The death scene was cut to avoid spoilers. We don't know if the Bald Guy in a Cape said something to insult Ezio.


This is perfect ^

We all know that Ezios anger does get the best of him, he keeps it all to himself and when can't hold it anymore he'll rage.

Remember the Da Vinci disappearance? Whe Ducio says that Ezio's sister didn't like to open her legs in Firenze but in Rome she's the leader of Rosa..
Ezio took enough insults and punched him in the face and broke hes nose

We'll have to wait and see why Ezio got so ****ed off at Leandros </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Broke his neck. Punched him so hard that his neck snapped. Ducio was most definitely dead after that.

LightRey
08-22-2011, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by Jamison.j.b:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gabrieldebeta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SupremeCaptain:
The death scene was cut to avoid spoilers. We don't know if the Bald Guy in a Cape said something to insult Ezio.


This is perfect ^

We all know that Ezios anger does get the best of him, he keeps it all to himself and when can't hold it anymore he'll rage.

Remember the Da Vinci disappearance? Whe Ducio says that Ezio's sister didn't like to open her legs in Firenze but in Rome she's the leader of Rosa..
Ezio took enough insults and punched him in the face and broke hes nose

We'll have to wait and see why Ezio got so ****ed off at Leandros </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Broke his neck. Punched him so hard that his neck snapped. Ducio was most definitely dead after that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Eh no. Duccio died years later after his business failed.

Sevenofnine-st
08-22-2011, 08:50 AM
All I can say with regard to the OP is that Ezio is not perfect. He's a hero and a legend who often seems larger than life but he's also beautifully flawed and he has shown a few tiny moments of weakness here and there. And that, to me, is what makes him so interesting and compelling as a character. And that's also why he has become one of my favourite fictional characters ever.

Jamison_J_B
08-22-2011, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jamison.j.b:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gabrieldebeta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SupremeCaptain:
The death scene was cut to avoid spoilers. We don't know if the Bald Guy in a Cape said something to insult Ezio.


This is perfect ^

We all know that Ezios anger does get the best of him, he keeps it all to himself and when can't hold it anymore he'll rage.

Remember the Da Vinci disappearance? Whe Ducio says that Ezio's sister didn't like to open her legs in Firenze but in Rome she's the leader of Rosa..
Ezio took enough insults and punched him in the face and broke hes nose

We'll have to wait and see why Ezio got so ****ed off at Leandros </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Broke his neck. Punched him so hard that his neck snapped. Ducio was most definitely dead after that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Eh no. Duccio died years later after his business failed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right, according to the assassin's creed wiki.

Duccio looked like he was dead though.

LightRey
08-22-2011, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by Jamison.j.b:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jamison.j.b:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gabrieldebeta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SupremeCaptain:
The death scene was cut to avoid spoilers. We don't know if the Bald Guy in a Cape said something to insult Ezio.

This is perfect ^

We all know that Ezios anger does get the best of him, he keeps it all to himself and when can't hold it anymore he'll rage.

Remember the Da Vinci disappearance? Whe Ducio says that Ezio's sister didn't like to open her legs in Firenze but in Rome she's the leader of Rosa..
Ezio took enough insults and punched him in the face and broke hes nose

We'll have to wait and see why Ezio got so ****ed off at Leandros </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Broke his neck. Punched him so hard that his neck snapped. Ducio was most definitely dead after that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Eh no. Duccio died years later after his business failed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right, according to the assassin's creed wiki.

Duccio looked like he was dead though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not just the wiki, Shaun's database states the same.

Panfaun
08-22-2011, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
How do we know he actually tried to hang him?
E3 Trailer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just because it was in the trailer doesn't mean it'll actually be part of the story. The ACB trailer wasn't either. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was confirmed in an electronic magazine in great detail how Ezio escaped his hanging. This is 9 minutes from an hour beginning sequence in Masayaf. Simply put this happens after the hanging.

Calvarok
08-22-2011, 09:49 PM
I'm glad that the trailer will be apart of the story, and I'm glad that the person that we see in the trailer is an actual character, but not the big bad of the story. Leandros is our first assassination target, and if they put that much effort into creating a cool and suitably vile character for the first assassination, I'm excited to see the rest of them.

I think Ubi has realized that we like to have lots of really fleshed out and unique looking targets.

I'm excited for the multiplayer characters to get that sort of treatment for the Templar Agents 2.0 missions.

And also I'm glad that there aren't any spoilers as to who the big bad is in the game, as there were for brotherhood.

Cercatrova
08-22-2011, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by Rakudaton:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
He is wise as Altair, who puttered around his Masyaf castle learning from the apple and recording it to paper.

I don't think you quite appreciate Altair's accomplishments.

I mean, come on. Paper was, like, really expensive back then. He must have negotiated a pretty sweet deal with a paper company to write that codex. And he did his own illustrations too! A true genius, we will never see his like again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Surely, sir, you jest. Paper was quite common in the islamic world at least a century before Altair was born. For important stuff vellum was more common, but paper was being manufactured by this time, not handmade, like it still was in Europe at that time. Yet, back to the Islamic world, paper was common enough to be used as packing material already, by Altair's time.