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faustnik
12-30-2003, 10:24 AM
I recently read two books that any FB 190 pilot would enjoy:

Sturmstaffel 1: Reich Defence 1943-1944 the War Diary ISBN: 0952686791

This is a great read providing first hand accounts of the first Sturm unit. The difficulties of dealing with the heavy defensive fire and tough structure of the B-17s is clearly illustrated. This unit pioneered a method of massed 190 attack on the B-17s from astern. They were among the first to use the Mk108 wing cannons on their 109A7s in early 1944. Some pilots were able to down two B-17s on one pass with the 30mm guns. The Sturmstaffel's 190s had heavy "panzerglas" armored windscreens which were capable of deflecting .50 cal direct hits.


Luftwaffe Schlachtgruppen ISBN: 1841766089

This book covers the formation and actions of the Luftwaffe's dedicated ground attack groups. It clearly points out one of FB's most important ommissions, the Hs 123! This little biplane saw constant frontline action until mid-'44. I was also surprised to read that the LW carried out daylight Jabo raids throughout the war on all fronts despite allied air superiority. One small point of interest was the use of Doras with ETC racks in the Jabo roll.

S!
faust

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faustnik
12-30-2003, 10:24 AM
I recently read two books that any FB 190 pilot would enjoy:

Sturmstaffel 1: Reich Defence 1943-1944 the War Diary ISBN: 0952686791

This is a great read providing first hand accounts of the first Sturm unit. The difficulties of dealing with the heavy defensive fire and tough structure of the B-17s is clearly illustrated. This unit pioneered a method of massed 190 attack on the B-17s from astern. They were among the first to use the Mk108 wing cannons on their 109A7s in early 1944. Some pilots were able to down two B-17s on one pass with the 30mm guns. The Sturmstaffel's 190s had heavy "panzerglas" armored windscreens which were capable of deflecting .50 cal direct hits.


Luftwaffe Schlachtgruppen ISBN: 1841766089

This book covers the formation and actions of the Luftwaffe's dedicated ground attack groups. It clearly points out one of FB's most important ommissions, the Hs 123! This little biplane saw constant frontline action until mid-'44. I was also surprised to read that the LW carried out daylight Jabo raids throughout the war on all fronts despite allied air superiority. One small point of interest was the use of Doras with ETC racks in the Jabo roll.

S!
faust

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig

TX-Zen
12-30-2003, 10:38 AM
I will have to check those out, thanks for posting the links.

Would be VERY nice to have some heavy "panzerglas" armored windscreens...those infernal B17 gunners are simply too much http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Bakelit
12-30-2003, 10:39 AM
Thanks for your assesment, Faustnik.

Will save some money http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

faustnik
12-30-2003, 12:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TX-Zen:


Would be VERY nice to have some heavy "panzerglas" armored windscreens...those infernal B17 gunners are simply too much http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even with panzerglas, the Sturmstaffel lost a lot of 190s. Many made it back to base but, were so damaged that they were no longer airworthy.

The used Bf109 and Fw190 escorts to tie up the Jugs and Mustangs while the Sturm units attacked. The German pilots said that the bombers flights were so large that the U.S. fighters had a hard time covering all the B-17s.

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SKULLS_LZ
12-30-2003, 12:22 PM
S! Faust,

From your reading, I was wondering what you could tell me about the 190's engine ability to survive .50 cal hits.

thanks!

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faustnik
12-30-2003, 01:37 PM
LZ,

I will go back and look for that specifically. They mentioning that the armored cowling ring making the 190 ideal for the sturm purpose.

Reading the book on Sturmstaffel 1, I was struck by how light the casualties and victories actually were. One or two 190s would usually be shot down with more damaged for one to four B-17s. I'd say the survivability of the sturm-modified 190s was very high considering the situation they were in. Certainly in FB trying the same tactics in a 190 will get you killed very quickly!

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kyrule2
12-30-2003, 04:11 PM
Thanks.

I also read in FW-190 in Combat, a pilot account who stated that he was always surprised at how few of the Sturm fighters would be lost. He said they stood up very well to the bombers defensive fire. The hard part was getting to the bombers.....

Also I read in FW-190 Aces of the Western Front, about a large battle where 80% of the casualties were from the escorting gruppen, while the Sturm gruppe had very few losses. This was not uncommon. From all accounts it seems that the Sturm pilots feared the escorting Mustangs and T-Bolts much more than the B-17's. Many times I have read pilots saying that once they closed in on the bombers a kill was almost assured, but they felt very vulnerable to the escorting fighters.

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Bearcat99
12-30-2003, 04:20 PM
I just walked in the door from Borders with a copy of JG 26 Top Guns of the Luftwaffe by Donald Caldwell... literally...geeee monie... I come in the house take off my jacket and log in here.....pretty sick huh....http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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TX-Bomblast
12-30-2003, 05:20 PM
Historicaly, Those FW190A-8/R8 were very heavy due to the added glass and plate armour. They also carried the bigger cannons in the outer wing mountings. All these mods made them a death trap to who ever was made to fly them.Also, these models had to have an escort all they way to the engagement area due to the fact, they were no longer dogfighters but bomber destroyers.

Another real good book on the FW190:

The Focke -Wulf 190
A Famous German Fighter
By, Heinz J. Nowarrow
Library Of Congress No. 65-15546
Copyright 1965

I know of one copy for sale,around $60.00 U.S. if you guys want I'll post the link. The book is very rare these days.

TX-Bomblast
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