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View Full Version : The truth or myth of the climbing Me-109.



zugfuhrer
07-08-2007, 12:53 PM
I know that this is three testimonies comming from three different sources independent of each and that aircrafts got specified characteristics at specified altitudes speed and other details. I am talking about the general not the particular.

From three sources, the film battle of britain, the book I flew for the fuhrer and the testimony of IAF pilots about the Avia S-199 tells the reader that if a Me-109 comes into truble, it can get out of it by climbing in a tight circle.

" In mock dog-fights, we concluded that the Messerschmitt could out-climb, out-dive and out-zoom the Spitfire and Mustang "
http://101squadron.com/101real/s-199s.html

Heinz Knoke is rather objective according to aircrafts, describes how he gets out of trouble by doing this tight turn climb while being attacked by by up to 10 enemies.

" Evidently my opponents are old hands at the game. I turn and dive and climb and roll and loop and spin. I use the methanol emergency booster, and try to get away in my favourite "corkscrew climb". ..."
http://www.heinzknokewebsite.com/My-Site/Victory_25.htm

" How is the best way to get rid of a spitfire on your tail? The respondent shows with his hand a gesture of climb and turn.
- a shallow climb and turn.
The movie battle of britain (1969 Director Guy Hamilton)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064072/

This spans the years between 1940 to 1949 and the S-199 was equipped with a "wrong engine".

Is there a myth or was it true that the Me-109 from E to G6 got superior climbing ability, if it did the "corkscrew climg"

In this game I have tried to do this trick, online and wiht AI oponent and found out that a corkscrew climb in a Me-109 against most allied aircraft. Am I supposed to ask myself " I feel lucky today" if I can outclimb a Yak, La7, Spit or P-38?

leitmotiv
07-08-2007, 12:57 PM
Don't expect a toy to model reality. IL-2 has many flaws. Enjoy it, but don't try to use it as a model of reality or you will give yourself a huge headache.

FluffyDucks2
07-08-2007, 01:22 PM
It used to be quite effective in the 109 against ANYTHING http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But then something happened to the 109 fm and now it is a mere shadow of itself which is why I rarely if ever fly them now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

berg417448
07-08-2007, 01:46 PM
It certainly works both ways depending upon who is telling the story.
Check Johnnie Johnson's book "Wing Leader" or Closterman's book "The Big Show" and you'll find their anecdotes about Spitfires out climbing Me-109s. Johnson got into a bad situation once and according to his book he escaped only by out climbing a flight of 109s.

WOLFMondo
07-08-2007, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by zugfuhrer:

" How is the best way to get rid of a spitfire on your tail? The respondent shows with his hand a gesture of climb and turn.
- a shallow climb and turn.
The movie battle of britain (1969 Director Guy Hamilton)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064072/


I saw a program today on discovery about the Spit and it had Gunthar Rall telling us that was the way the Spit got away from the 109, a tight climbing turn. Then another former 109 pilot says his 109 got away from Spits in a dive because the 109 was heavier.

Anecdotes. Don't you love 'em? :P

DKoor
07-08-2007, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by FluffyDucks2:
It used to be quite effective in the 109 against ANYTHING http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But then something happened to the 109 fm and now it is a mere shadow of itself which is why I rarely if ever fly them now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif +1

Late ones only tho. And that something bad that happened is control stiffness http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif . Like it wasn't enough.

stalkervision
07-08-2007, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
I know that this is three testimonies comming from three different sources independent of each and that aircrafts got specified characteristics at specified altitudes speed and other details. I am talking about the general not the particular.

From three sources, the film battle of britain, the book I flew for the fuhrer and the testimony of IAF pilots about the Avia S-199 tells the reader that if a Me-109 comes into truble, it can get out of it by climbing in a tight circle.

" In mock dog-fights, we concluded that the Messerschmitt could out-climb, out-dive and out-zoom the Spitfire and Mustang "
http://101squadron.com/101real/s-199s.html

Heinz Knoke is rather objective according to aircrafts, describes how he gets out of trouble by doing this tight turn climb while being attacked by by up to 10 enemies.

" Evidently my opponents are old hands at the game. I turn and dive and climb and roll and loop and spin. I use the methanol emergency booster, and try to get away in my favourite "corkscrew climb". ..."
http://www.heinzknokewebsite.com/My-Site/Victory_25.htm

" How is the best way to get rid of a spitfire on your tail? The respondent shows with his hand a gesture of climb and turn.
- a shallow climb and turn.
The movie battle of britain (1969 Director Guy Hamilton)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064072/

This spans the years between 1940 to 1949 and the S-199 was equipped with a "wrong engine".

Is there a myth or was it true that the Me-109 from E to G6 got superior climbing ability, if it did the "corkscrew climg"

In this game I have tried to do this trick, online and wiht AI oponent and found out that a corkscrew climb in a Me-109 against most allied aircraft. Am I supposed to ask myself " I feel lucky today" if I can outclimb a Yak, La7, Spit or P-38?

good stuff thanks a bunch! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

stalkervision
07-08-2007, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by FluffyDucks2:
It used to be quite effective in the 109 against ANYTHING http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But then something happened to the 109 fm and now it is a mere shadow of itself which is why I rarely if ever fly them now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

agreed. Try climb matching a 1400 hp Spit agains't a 1800 hp 109 and see what happens.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

works with the P-51 last I checked but that may have been "fixed" in a later patch.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

stalkervision
07-08-2007, 04:14 PM
you may want to try this 109 pilot trick agains't P-51's.

got it from a real 109 g ace pilot..(in an interview he gave for a combat sim game)

"when attacked from the back slam the stick hard and forward abruptly and do a diving turn reversal. Apparently this worked even in later war years on the P-51's with the merlin carberator which I didn't know.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

thought they had sorted that totally out on the merlin but apparently not.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif


of course in the game it probably does squat... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Kurfurst__
07-08-2007, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:

Anecdotes. Don't you love 'em? :P

Best thing about anecdotes that dead pilots are terrible at telling them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

How many stories are there telling about 'I tried to outturn him. It didn't work out - he put a 20mm shell into my dumb skull.' None. I guess it never happened then.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stalkervision
07-08-2007, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:

Anecdotes. Don't you love 'em? :P

Best thing about anecdotes that dead pilots are terrible at telling them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

How many stories are there telling about 'I tried to outturn him. It didn't work out - he put a 20mm shell into my dumb skull.' None. I guess it never happened then.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh you are BAD! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DKoor
07-08-2007, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:

Anecdotes. Don't you love 'em? :P

Best thing about anecdotes that dead pilots are terrible at telling them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

How many stories are there telling about 'I tried to outturn him. It didn't work out - he put a 20mm shell into my dumb skull.' None. I guess it never happened then.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh you are BAD! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

tomtheyak
07-08-2007, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:

Anecdotes. Don't you love 'em? :P

Best thing about anecdotes that dead pilots are terrible at telling them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

How many stories are there telling about 'I tried to outturn him. It didn't work out - he put a 20mm shell into my dumb skull.' None. I guess it never happened then.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bullsh*t.

Sry Kurfie, but you assume too much, i.e. -

1) 100% accuracy on behalf of 109 pilot gunnery (LoL, yeah, right! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif )

2) 100% kill-to-hit ratio from said uber shooting 109 pilot (again... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif )

3) 100% allied pilot fatality in said 100% markmanship, 100% lethality 109. No bailouts, no crash landing. PK city.

I know the 109 is a great a/c but this...?!?
LoL, now you just look ridiculous!

LStarosta
07-08-2007, 05:40 PM
You tell em, Tom.

zardozid
07-08-2007, 05:50 PM
The Me109 escape tactics I have heard the most where the "split s" and a "negative G dive/split s" (push stick forward). Makes the engine cut out on early spits.

carguy_
07-08-2007, 06:04 PM
I doubt if the climb alone gives Me109 special abilities.The only ever time when the climb alone gives me advantage is when both sides go 30km to the same sector.I will always start above them.

In fights it is much harder.The climb advantage is IMO way too small,almost unnoticed in direct engagements.It`s not like you decide to climb away and your opponent falls behind.It takes lots of time and he will pop you led much sooner.

But I worked out a trick that works almost always,against Spits must be MW50 enabled.
Basically when in a 109 you must gain 100-200 alt separation and maneuver so you are almost directly above him.He should be looking at you from a minimum of 40deg angle.If you then engage into a tight spiral climb he will never catch.Normally the opponent drops a wing and the advantage enlarges.

In this case the climb alone would give me nothing.It`s the slats.I do have a steep climb ability at low speeds and if he`s just below me,he win`t be able to point his nose at me.

This trick almost guarantees an escape in a 1v1.

Against Spits IX only at full possible power.

Manu-6S
07-09-2007, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FluffyDucks2:
It used to be quite effective in the 109 against ANYTHING http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But then something happened to the 109 fm and now it is a mere shadow of itself which is why I rarely if ever fly them now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif +1

Late ones only tho. And that something bad that happened is control stiffness http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif . Like it wasn't enough. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bingo... oh well... but now you see more FW190 in the servers: me too, a 109 pilot from the beginning, now I fly only FW190 if it's possible.

The bad thing is that I'm not so good in energy retention manouvre like I was (tonneau, ect) since if you do those in a FW190 you find yourself slow (death): but my SA skill is increased a lot (not using F6 wonder).

Badsight-
07-09-2007, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
+1

Late ones only tho. And that something bad that happened is control stiffness http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif . Like it wasn't enough.
ROTFL , true that

WOLFMondo
07-09-2007, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by tomtheyak:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:

Anecdotes. Don't you love 'em? :P

Best thing about anecdotes that dead pilots are terrible at telling them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

How many stories are there telling about 'I tried to outturn him. It didn't work out - he put a 20mm shell into my dumb skull.' None. I guess it never happened then.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bullsh*t.

Sry Kurfie, but you assume too much, i.e. -

1) 100% accuracy on behalf of 109 pilot gunnery (LoL, yeah, right! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif )

2) 100% kill-to-hit ratio from said uber shooting 109 pilot (again... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif )

3) 100% allied pilot fatality in said 100% markmanship, 100% lethality 109. No bailouts, no crash landing. PK city.

I know the 109 is a great a/c but this...?!?
LoL, now you just look ridiculous! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you missed the point there.

Pilot annecdotes are practically worthless other than filing a claim or recollection of an incident. They never and cannot take accurately into account the thousands of variables between two planes fighting it out and they never have a statement from the looser of the engagement, other than a loose recollection from an opponent 40 years after the incidenthttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

WTE_Ibis
07-09-2007, 02:24 AM
It used to be quite effective in the 109 against ANYTHING
===============================================
My dog climbs up my leg better than the 109 can climb now.

.

M_Gunz
07-09-2007, 06:05 AM
Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
I know that this is three testimonies comming from three different sources independent of each and that aircrafts got specified characteristics at specified altitudes speed and other details. I am talking about the general not the particular.

A spiral climb is a good defensive maneuver even if you only have a little better climb. It
keeps the pursuit having to pull a harder spiral before he can get a guns solution.

Some things to remember about matchups is what altitude it occurs. In BoB, the 109 would
outturn the Hurricane above 8000 feet. The Hurricane engine began to gasp at 8000 feet.
IIRC during BoB the 109E at high alts had speed/power edge over Spitfires but I'm foggy on it.
BTW, Hurricane 4000ft and under did outturn 109E as was taught. Hurri is fabric over sticks!

Xiolablu3
07-09-2007, 06:22 AM
I also saw a program on the history channel just last night with a P51 veteran saying how the P51 could do 'everything better' than the Bf109. I wanted to jump in the screen and throttle the poor old guy. (JUst HOW did he outclimb 'vanilla' Bf109's or outturn them in a slow speed fight in a P51?)


Some things worked for some pilots, some things didnt.

Gunther Rall says about the 109...

'You couldnt follow the SPitfire in a tight turn upwards, you couldnt follow it'.


Vs the Spitfire for example, these 2 planes swapped the crown for climb raTE back and forth through the war, it all DEPENDS on a LOT of other factors too.

A faster B&Zing SPitfire can be avoided in a slower travelling Bf109 by a tight turn slightly upwards, no doubt, and a Spit could do the same defensive against the 109.

DOnt take things so literally in the quotes. To make any real sense of pilot quotes you must have 80-90% of them saying the same thing, and THEN look at the science too.

Xiolablu3
07-09-2007, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by Manu-6S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FluffyDucks2:
It used to be quite effective in the 109 against ANYTHING http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But then something happened to the 109 fm and now it is a mere shadow of itself which is why I rarely if ever fly them now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif +1

Late ones only tho. And that something bad that happened is control stiffness http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif . Like it wasn't enough. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bingo... oh well... but now you see more FW190 in the servers: me too, a 109 pilot from the beginning, now I fly only FW190 if it's possible.

The bad thing is that I'm not so good in energy retention manouvre like I was (tonneau, ect) since if you do those in a FW190 you find yourself slow (death): but my SA skill is increased a lot (not using F6 wonder). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You guys are flying way, way too much 1944.

karost
07-09-2007, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Don't expect a toy to model reality. IL-2 has many flaws. Enjoy it, but don't try to use it as a model of reality or you will give yourself a huge headache.


I have 100% agree... S~

IL2(FB) is One Good Game : best of compromise and balance the enjoyment to a major people happy.

to let a people shooting Me-109 easy is a one feature of this game ( I think )

now who fly Me-109 online are a respect friends.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
S!

Xiolablu3
07-09-2007, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by karost:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Don't expect a toy to model reality. IL-2 has many flaws. Enjoy it, but don't try to use it as a model of reality or you will give yourself a huge headache.


I have 100% agree... S~

IL2(FB) is One Good Game : best of compromise and balance the enjoyment to a major people happy.

to let a people shooting Me-109 easy is a one feature of this game ( I think )

now who fly Me-109 online are a respect friends.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
S! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

AHh come on Karost thats the biggest load of **** I have ever heard. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

The Me109 was a FANTASTIC plane in the early war years before its small frame was overloaded. And so it is in the game.

1940 - Best plane in the game is the Bf109E
1941 - Best plane in the game is the Bf109F4
1942 - Joint best planes in the game are Bf109G2 and FW190A4.

Like I said, you guys with a strange picture of the game are playing too much 1944.

So much for Bf109's being 'easy meat'.

I will take you on anytime in a Bf109F4 with ANY plane from 1941 and trust me I dont need any 'respect' from you. As long as you fly to the 109's strengths (Everything except low speed turnfighting) anyone can own in that plane.

The only 1941 plane that comes anywhere close to the 109 is the Spitfire Vb and the 109F4 outclasses that plane in everything except horizontal turning and gun power. (And its still pretty close in even those areas!)

HayateAce
07-09-2007, 09:37 AM
Go easy. Kurfy and his lackeys aren't very good online pilots, I know firsthand.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

mynameisroland
07-09-2007, 09:50 AM
Sod that, even in a Gf 109 G6 Late you can do well against Spits as long as you are the better pilot. If your not the better pilot you deserve to get shot down by the guy in the more capable dogfighter its as simple as that. Luckily in WW2 the Luftwaffe could often rely on having more combat experience and better tactics that their opponents.

Im not saying for one second that I think the Bf 109 G6 in game is as good as a Spit IX, but every plane including the Bf 109 has its strong points. If you cant out spiral climb a Mk IX in your 1.32 ATA G6 or whatever use different tactics or fly in a G2 or G6AS.

Brain32
07-09-2007, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
Go easy. Kurfy and his lackeys aren't very good online pilots, I know firsthand.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
Says the most shotdown il2 player since 2001 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

carguy_
07-09-2007, 10:32 AM
One can be doubting if the 109 is a very good plane,especially guys who fly in DF servers

In online wars where experienced people fly, things tend to get hard in the middle of `43 and `44 but `45 is relatively easy.Fighting in online front wars creates a far more even battle than La7 or Spit IX would suggest.

The Luftwaffe doesn`t have the adequate guns to do the job sometimes though.

karost
07-09-2007, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

1940 - Best plane in the game is the Bf109E
1941 - Best plane in the game is the Bf109F4
1942 - Joint best planes in the game are Bf109G2 and FW190A4.



Xiolablu , you are right 100 % my friend for a a "real" history info. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But what happen if BOB Game make bf109 is batter same like a history said in 1940-42 , who will play red if they not happy ?

Solution : compromise , balance : again...! to make more people happy

and you right again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I play online in WC almost 2 years and this DF Server teach me how to fly FW190A9 ... and I think you know why I have to fly FW190 in WC http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ฺbut actually , I'm a bf109 online guy since 2001
when meet with our old hand friends in IL2 ( original )

S~


"In online wars where experienced people fly"
carguy_ ...

Vike
07-09-2007, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
Go easy. Kurfy and his lackeys aren't very good online pilots, I know firsthand.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

For sure...

-Two SpitIX shot down in a row with 50% hit ratio on WindsOfWar with a K4-B4. (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/WindsOfWar.jpg)
-A poor P51D shot down similarly WarcLouds-WF recently:Re-50% hit precision with a K4-B4. (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/Gluor1.jpg)

And just for you Hayate Ace,again with 50% precision versus a P38L-Late in a...Me109-G14,you know,it's a renamed G6/U2:

-P38L-Late atomized with four 30mm shells hit from my Me109-G14 (hit rate 50%) (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/Me109G14vsP38.jpg)

But finally,you are right,i'm quite bad...I should have crushed them with 100% precision. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Now,considering the efficiency of the planes between the Fw190s and the Me109s online i would say...
Yes.Indeed when i was a complete noob,i found the Fw190 far more efficient than the Me109-Late and they also frequently saved my back when i was in trouble in my Me109.

But now,
after some years flying and learning this beast,i found frequently myself helping and saving the Fw190 online with my Me109 on the full-switch server.
Indeed,the Fw190 are very bad turners and couldn't do anything against a turning SpitIX.


Let me tell you the most pathetic moment i ever seen on warlcouds some months ago:

For the challenge this day,i decided to take a G6-Early for fighting versus SpitIX and TempestMkV...

En route for the front,i saw an unbelievable bunch of five Fw190A following A SINGLE Spifire MkIX which was doing successive loops.
NO Fw190A couldn't follow the Spit in its loops,but they ALL continued to try to catch him. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Then,the worst and ridiculous situation finally arrived:
The SpitIX managed to gain speed in its loops until it caught the last Fw190A of the bunch that tried to follow him,and the Spit shot him down. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

"What awful noobs" i said to myself about the Fw190s,filled with consternation. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

I took some altitude and made a Boom 'n Zoom straight forward into this silly and awful circus and cut the wing of the Spit in the first pass.Victory hands down.

I left the bunch of the 4 remaining Fw190A behind me,looking at themselve.
I couldn't imagine how ASHAMED they should feel when they saw a Me109-G6-Early do what their five Antons couldn't even try... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

To summary,every people who think the Me109 post G2 is worthless in this game is badly wrong.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Only the two G6 and the K4-B4 are more or less problematic with their (too) high turntimes.
But the other like G6/AS,G10,G14,K4-C3 are simply excellent if not the bests when well manned. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/Berlin1945/ABSans-titre9.jpg

@+

BaronUnderpants
07-09-2007, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by Vike:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
Go easy. Kurfy and his lackeys aren't very good online pilots, I know firsthand.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

For sure...

-Two SpitIX shot down in a row with 50% on WindsOfWar with a K4-B4. (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/WindsOfWar.jpg)
-A poor P51D shot down similarly WarcLouds recently:Re-50% of precision with a K4-B4. (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/Gluor1.jpg)

And just for you Hayate Ace,a 50% precisions against a P38L Late in a...G14,you know,it's a renamed G6/U2:

-P38L-Late atomised with four 30mm shells hit from my Me109-G14 (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/Vike01/Me109G14vsP38.jpg)

But finally,you are right,i'm quite bad...I should have crushed them with 100% precision. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Now,considering the efficiency of the planes between the Fw190 and the Me109 i would say...
Yes,when i was a complete noob,i found the Fw190 far more efficient and they also frequently saved my back when i was in trouble in my Me109.

But now,
after some years flying and learning this beast,i found frequently myself helping and saving the Fw190 online with my Me109.Indeed,the Fw190 are very bad turners and couldn't do anything agaisnt a turning Spit.


Let me tell you the most pathetic moment i ever seen on warlcouds some months ago:

For the challenge this day,i decided to take a G6-Early for fighting against SpitIX and TempestMkV...

En route for the front,i saw an unbelievable bunch of five Fw190A following A SINGLE Spifire MkIX which was doing successive loops.
NO Fw190A couldn't follow the Spit in its loops,but they ALL continued to try to catch him. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Then,the worst and ridiculous situation finally arrived:
The SpitIX managed to gain speed in its loops until he caught the last Fw190 of the bunch that tried to follow him,and the Spit shot him down. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

"What awful noobs" i said to myself,filled with consternation. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

I took some altitude and made a Boom 'n Zoom straight forward into this silly and awful circus and cut the wing of the Spit in the first pass.Victory hands down.

I left the bunch of the 4 remaining Fw190A behind me,looking at themselve.
I couldn't imagine how SHAMEFUL they should feel when they saw a Me109-G6-Early do what their five "uber" Antons couldn't even try... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

To summary,every people who think the Me109 post G2 is worthless in this game is badly wrong.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Only the two G6 and the K4-B4 are problematic with their (too) high turntimes.
G6/AS,G10,G14,K4-C3 are simply excellent if not the bests when well manned. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

@+ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Come on now, u can hardly claim a kill by yourselfe when u got 4 "idiot" ( your words ) FW190`s doing the legwork ( keeping enemy bussy ) so u can kill him.

And the fact that 5 FW`s cant prevent 1 lonley Spit from shooting them down is more a testament to Fw190 lack of abillity to do ANYTHING usefull against most allied ac` without having ATLEAST 1 km of air between them and itselfe to start with ( not counting B%Z and headon. )

If it should be that way?...well thats another debate all togheter.


P.S. I know what u mean by " 5 FW190`s trying to follow a spit in a turn.........WHY?" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif So many things wrong with that picture...i know.

MOH_MADMAN
07-09-2007, 12:01 PM
This Still works well in game, just be sure you have the timing down and the e to pull it off.
Many times you can twist the extra E out of a bandit w this move, giving a superior or at least a Co E state. What you do with it after that is up to you. In general these days, make one mistake at this and your toast, as most birds can quickly re convert to a superior e state, given the poor elvator response of the current 109s.

MAD

Vike
07-09-2007, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
u can hardly claim a kill

Yes i'm quite bad i know! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Uh http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
You know what the other four Fw190A remaining would have become if i didn't intercome?
I let you guess... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif


Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
And the fact that 5 FW`s cant prevent 1 lonley Spit from shooting them down is more a testament to Fw190 lack of abillity to do ANYTHING usefull against most allied ac` without having ATLEAST 1 km of air between them and itselfe to start with ( not counting B%Z and headon. )

Whatever the flaws the Fw190A could have,the Me109-Late serie has also its own problems.

But when i read:
The ingame Fw190 is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaarrrrr better than the Me109-Late on these forums,at first glance for a beginner i would say why not...
But when i go on WC-WF to see what i described in my previous post,i think there must be a little problem somewhere... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

@+

BaronUnderpants
07-09-2007, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Vike:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
u can hardly claim a kill

Yes i'm quite bad i know! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Uh http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
You know what the four Fw190 would have become if i didn't intercome? I let you guess... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

BTW,take a G6-Early on WC-WF and do better,will you? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
After what we could discuss. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif


Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
And the fact that 5 FW`s cant prevent 1 lonley Spit from shooting them down is more a testament to Fw190 lack of abillity to do ANYTHING usefull against most allied ac` without having ATLEAST 1 km of air between them and itselfe to start with ( not counting B%Z and headon. )

Whatever the flaws the Fw190A could have,the Me109 serie has also its own problems.

But when i read:
The ingame Fw190 is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaarrrrr better than the Me109 on these forum.At first glance for a beginner i would say why not.But when i go on WC-WF to see what i described in my previous post,i think there must be a little problem somewhere...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

@+ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FW190 is faaar better...if one uses B&Z, if one dont, that perticullar pilot is dead within 2 min.

And btw.....in any kind of close contact with a spit ( not counting B&Z and the 100m seperation between FW and Spit just before i blow its wing of ) most anyone would do better in a Bf109 G6 than in any FW. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But hey, why are we arguing, the 5 FW pilots did the ONE thing they shouldnt have....and they lost. ( No big suprise there ) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

P.S. I agree with u btw...Bf109 is better i some ways and Fw is better in others...half half kind of thing. In any kind of T%B i would choose any kind of BF over FW every time.

Vike
07-09-2007, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
But hey, why are we arguing, the 5 FW pilots did the ONE thing they shouldnt have....and they lost. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I agree http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If they had Me109s at this particular moment (loops),i wouldn't have to help them!

The thing that intrigues me is that any of the five thought about changing their strategy!
It was like they all shared only one brain,Lhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifL

I should have recorded a track! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

@+

BaronUnderpants
07-09-2007, 12:34 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

karost
07-09-2007, 12:34 PM
I also have a funy story in WC too...

I saw 3 x bf109 dance with 1x spirt on the dect , 2 of bf109 hit each other and crash http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
and the remain 1x bf109 run out of cannon ammo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

and I not going down there coz I know , a gun fire tracer will call alot of noobs and pro to join that party http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


I think this topic will change to " noobs bf109 vs noobs fw190 in WC " LOL

S!

BaronUnderpants
07-09-2007, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by karost:
I also have a funy story in WC too...

I saw 3 x bf109 dance with 1x spirt on the dect , 2 of bf109 hit each other and crash http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
and the remain 1x bf109 run out of ammo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

and I not going down there coz I know , a gun fire tracer will call alot of noobs and pro to join that party http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


I think this topic will change to " noobs bf109 vs noobs fw190 in WC " LOL

S!

And noobs in Spits compensates for both previouse groups. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

The things i see Spit pilots do sometimes just makes me shake my head...and the enoying thing about it is that in many cases they get away with it....kind of like the bumblebee that doesnt know he shouldnt be able to fly...and so does it anyways. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

M_Gunz
07-09-2007, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I also saw a program on the history channel just last night with a P51 veteran saying how the P51 could do 'everything better' than the Bf109. I wanted to jump in the screen and throttle the poor old guy. (JUst HOW did he outclimb 'vanilla' Bf109's or outturn them in a slow speed fight in a P51?)

It may be that he never found himself in a slow speed fight with 109's. Not exactly bright thing
to have happen when you have fast planes yourselves. Note to self, start getting slow is time to
bag out sort of thing should do?

M_Gunz
07-09-2007, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Vike:
Indeed,the Fw190 are very bad turners and couldn't do anything against a turning SpitIX.

That's why you have a wingmate trailing, to pick up the shot and watch your tail.

Oh... you don't have one? IRL they fought in groups.

M_Gunz
07-09-2007, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Vike:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
But hey, why are we arguing, the 5 FW pilots did the ONE thing they shouldnt have....and they lost. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I agree http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If they had Me109s at this particular moment (loops),i wouldn't have to help them!

The thing that intrigues me is that any of the five thought about changing their strategy!
It was like they all shared only one brain,Lhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifL

I should have recorded a track! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

@+ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you go into loop with the Spitfire or just cut across the circle and deflection-shoot?
If the latter then what plane could you not have done that with? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Manu-6S
07-09-2007, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Did you go into loop with the Spitfire or just cut across the circle and deflection-shoot?
If the latter then what plane could you not have done that with? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Agree http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Jaws2002
07-09-2007, 04:17 PM
Good they toned down the 109's a little bit. I got tired of seing ten 109's and one Foke Wulf in the servers for too long. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif



http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

Brain32
07-09-2007, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
Good they toned down the 109's a little bit. I got tired of seing ten 109's and one Foke Wulf in the servers for too long. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif
Yes now we see 25 FW190's and one Me109 in the servers, I wander why http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

The ingame Fw190 is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaarrrrr better than the Me109-Late on these forums,at first glance for a beginner i would say why not...
If I want kills I will take FW190A8 over any available 109(even K4C3), if I want to be scared of everything including stains on my monitor, fly like walking on egg shells(hey I'm already flying in one) and make piece with the fact that I probably will not have to land, then I take ME109.
I used to be a dedicated Me109 pilot, he11, give me a 109G10 and I will still kick the living sh1t out of some n00bs, but what was done to them over the years... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Sure the speed and climb are good, even excellent, but the stiffness is...erhm...how should I put it....amusing, and the DM...well that's just pure gold, after flying the late 109 I go fly A6M2 on early Pacific maps just so I feel how it is to fly an armoured plane http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
Still with all that in mind, I'm stupid enough to fly a late 109 quite regulary, anyone want's to join? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Vike
07-09-2007, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
If the latter then what plane could you not have done that with? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Indeed any plane "better" than the G6-Early could have done that... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
And planes which are "better" than the G6-Early are numerous in this sim.Including the Fw190Ahttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Nevertheless it seems that day on WC-WF,the Antons weren't "better" than the G6-Early.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Like Brain32 said,see how many Fw190s are populating servers in the Blue side... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

BTW,as i know a part of the huge potential of the Me109-Late in this sim,i hope you'd understand my disappointment when i see so many teammates in Fw190.
By example when i engage a turning enemy,then if i get in trouble i know that no Fw190 around me could save my back because of their limitated turning abilities (that i consider normal btw).
The problem is that there is too much little people in Me109-Late in servers,thus i can barely make a decent teamplay because i give 95% of my fight time to save Fw190s from turning SpitIXs... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

And naturally,when i fly with people mastering the Me109-Late,we simply rumble. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

@+

HayateAce
07-09-2007, 06:37 PM
That is because skill level for blue players is sadly down. Even if they had a turn plane, they wouldn't know how to use it. These type players are better left to screaming like girl on teamspeak for their impossible-to-miss noob 4x cannon fairey-190 buddies to clear them.

Jaws2002
07-09-2007, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
.

Some things never change. EVER http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=userposts&u=8931072342&p=2

Jaws2002
07-09-2007, 07:01 PM
Yes now we see 25 FW190's and one Me109 in the servers, I wander why


Maybe because a lot of blue players evolved and leaned to fly the 190. http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

karost
07-09-2007, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by Vike:
because i give 95% of my fight time to save Fw190s from turning SpitIXs... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif



if you see FW190 turn with spit , dont help him ,let him learn from his mistake to fly Fw190

flying between BF109 and FW190 is difference art. in BF109 if speed not over the conner speed they have a lot of way to challanging. but a smart spit/P51/template know the limit of bf109 and turning a table with a hi-speed combat then bf109 have to play defensive one side only.

flying FW190 is a top art of energy tactic but I have to pay a price to learn , a classic defensive roll is a challanging when spit stay in my 6 at gun range

bf109 is easy to learn for a new blue ace and most challanging in WC 1944-45 for an old hand blue friends.

but fw190 need more creation more cool emotion more planing more skill to turning it to be a killing machine.

one thing that bf109 can not do but FW190 can..
FW190 can run like he11 when 3 spit stay behind http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


S!

Jaws2002
07-09-2007, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Vike:
because i give 95% of my fight time to save Fw190s from turning SpitIXs...

You have no idea how many times i dropped down to help a 109 from a spit on his six and he turned like mad and blew my firing solution.

Manu-6S
07-10-2007, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by karost:
bf109 is easy to learn for a new blue ace and most challanging in WC 1944-45 for an old hand blue friends.

but fw190 need more creation more cool emotion more planing more skill to turning it to be a killing machine.

one thing that bf109 can not do but FW190 can..
FW190 can run like he11 when 3 spit stay behind

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

But the funny thing is that people don't take FW190 because they fixed his problems: it's because they tuned down the Late 109s http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

rnzoli
07-10-2007, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
"when attacked from the back slam the stick hard and forward abruptly and do a diving turn reversal. Apparently this worked even in later war years on the P-51's with the merlin carberator which I didn't know.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

thought they had sorted that totally out on the merlin but apparently not.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

of course in the game it probably does squat... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif
Before your cry, read the corresponding story from a P-51 pilot telling how he almost let one 109 go away, because it went into a negative G-dive. He hated negative G-s because everything that was unsecured in cockpit flew up into the pilot's face. So by the time he rolled the dove as well, he lost sight of the 109. But he later spotted it flying low, and then moved in again and shot it down. The pilot then asked others, why the 109 made that unusual neg-G manouver, and he was told this went back to the early-war advatange of the 109s over carburated Spitfires and Hurricanes, which couldn't follow the

So the negatative-G manouver may have been successful due to the momentary loss of visual tracking only, not because of problems with late-war merlin engines.

M_Gunz
07-10-2007, 07:55 AM
Obvious Fanboy Site I Am Sure (http://www.spitfiresociety.demon.co.uk/engines.htm)


Carburettor design

One of the great problems as discerned by pilots was the tendency for the carburetted engine to cut out under negative 'g'. Luftwaffe pilots learned to escape by simply pushing the nose of their aircraft down into a dive, as their fuel- injected engines did not cut out under these circumstances. Many authors have criticised this aspect of the Merlin design. In reality, like most engineering, it resulted from a design compromise- the drop in temperature developed in a carburetor results in an increase in the density of the fuel-air mixture when compared to that of a fuel injection system. As a consequence the Merlin produced a higher specific power output (horse power per pound) that the equivalent German engine. It was felt that this gave a higher power to weight ratio for the fighter and (rightly or wrongly) that this outweighed the disadvantages. By 1941 Miss Tilly Shilling in Farnborough had developed a partial cure for the problem. A diaphragm across the float chambers with a calibrated hole (the infamous "Miss Shilling's orifice"!) allowed negative 'g' manouvres, and was fitted as standard from March 1941. Sustained zero 'g' manouvres were not sorted out until somewhat later. In 1942 an anti-g version of the SU carburetor was fitted to single and two-stage Merlins. 1943 saw the introduction of the Bendix-Stromburg carburetor which injected fuel at 5psi through a nozzle direct into the supercharger and was fitted to the Merlins 66, 70, 76, 77, and 85. The final development was the SU injection carburetor which injected fuel into the supercharger using a fuel pump driven as a fuction of crankshaft speed and engine pressures, which was fitted to the 100 series Merlins.

mynameisroland
07-10-2007, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Yes now we see 25 FW190's and one Me109 in the servers, I wander why


Maybe because a lot of blue players evolved and leaned to fly the 190. http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you Jaws. Nice flying and shooting http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif the other night btw, shame we couldnt continue our fights.
~S~

Jaws2002
07-10-2007, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by mynameisroland:
I agree with you Jaws. Nice flying and shooting http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif the other night btw, shame we couldnt continue our fights.
~S~

Lucky for me i got away with it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

I was expecting all kind of bad things to happen to me after that. Lucky you couldn't fly. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


As allways, great flying with you Sir. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Clipper_51
07-10-2007, 06:49 PM
\


I will take you on anytime in a Bf109F4 with ANY plane from 1941 and trust me I dont need any 'respect' from you. As long as you fly to the 109's strengths (Everything except low speed turnfighting) anyone can own in that plane.

You're dead meat against a Zero ace.

Clipper_51
07-10-2007, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by karost:
I also have a funy story in WC too...

I saw 3 x bf109 dance with 1x spirt on the dect , 2 of bf109 hit each other and crash http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
and the remain 1x bf109 run out of ammo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

and I not going down there coz I know , a gun fire tracer will call alot of noobs and pro to join that party http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


I think this topic will change to " noobs bf109 vs noobs fw190 in WC " LOL

S!

And noobs in Spits compensates for both previouse groups. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

The things i see Spit pilots do sometimes just makes me shake my head...and the enoying thing about it is that in many cases they get away with it....kind of like the bumblebee that doesnt know he shouldnt be able to fly...and so does it anyways. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You guys keep talking about "spit noobs." You know there are some excellent, excellent Spit pilots on WC and other servers that can give any 109 or 190 pilot a very hard time. I'll put my money on the vet spit pilot vs. any 109 vet.

tigertalon
07-10-2007, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Clipper_51:
You guys keep talking about "spit noobs." You know there are some excellent, excellent Spit pilots on WC and other servers that can give any 109 or 190 pilot a very hard time. I'll put my money on the vet spit pilot vs. any 109 vet.

Agreed with that. But it's still great fun to see how many hot SpitVIII pilots who just downed gazzilion of 109s on previous map, and are now getting into turnfight with Ki-43s and even Ki-27s on, say Burma map (http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif)! Portion of such pilots is amazingly high, as is the fact that many among them are experienced, long time fliers, which stick to spit on every map if available, so they never fight against it.

A considerable portion of spit pilots know nothing but turn. It's just that they meet a better turning opponents so rarely, and are lost as a blind man in a dark room when that happens... Not saying there are no spit experts tho!

Manu-6S
07-11-2007, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
Agreed with that. But it's still great fun to see how many hot SpitVIII pilots who just downed gazzilion of 109s on previous map, and are now getting into turnfight with Ki-43s and even Ki-27s on, say Burma map (http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif)! Portion of such pilots is amazingly high, as is the fact that many among them are experienced, long time fliers, which stick to spit on every map if available, so they never fight against it.

A considerable portion of spit pilots know nothing but turn. It's just that they meet a better turning opponents so rarely, and are lost as a blind man in a dark room when that happens... Not saying there are no spit experts tho!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

La7_brook
07-11-2007, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by Clipper_51:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by karost:
I also have a funy story in WC too...

I saw 3 x bf109 dance with 1x spirt on the dect , 2 of bf109 hit each other and crash http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
and the remain 1x bf109 run out of ammo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

and I not going down there coz I know , a gun fire tracer will call alot of noobs and pro to join that party http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


I think this topic will change to " noobs bf109 vs noobs fw190 in WC " LOL

S!

And noobs in Spits compensates for both previouse groups. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

The things i see Spit pilots do sometimes just makes me shake my head...and the enoying thing about it is that in many cases they get away with it....kind of like the bumblebee that doesnt know he shouldnt be able to fly...and so does it anyways. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You guys keep talking about "spit noobs." You know there are some excellent, excellent Spit pilots on WC and other servers that can give any 109 or 190 pilot a very hard time. I'll put my money on the vet spit pilot vs. any 109 vet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Definition of been blind is they can not see http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

M_Gunz
07-11-2007, 07:08 AM
The people that started that "scientists proved that bumblebees can't fly" story were 'journalists'
that couldn't get the story they were given straight. But it caught on anyway.