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walsh2509
07-30-2005, 08:29 PM
A sceenshot from the gamespot site, i don't know if this is going to be a flight sim or an Arcade one? But this does show is what the next gen graphic chip will be able to do! Though when we'll see these chips on card for PC's ?????


http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/sim/worldairforce/screens.html?page=2

walsh2509
07-30-2005, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by walsh2509:
A sceenshot from the gamespot site, i don't know if this is going to be a flight sim or an Arcade one? But what this does show is what the next gen graphic chip will be able to do! Though when we'll see these chips on card for PC's ?????


http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/sim/worldairforce/screens.html?page=2


http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/sim/worldairforce/screens.html?page=3

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/sim/worldairforce/screens.html?page=1

FritzGryphon
07-30-2005, 09:10 PM
Well, it says Xbox, so I'd guess it's not a sim. Maybe the latest and greatest Ace Combat.

The graphics are pretty, but there's nothing revolutionary there. Self-shadowing and AA are present, and those have been around for a long time.

Besides, those look suspiciously like dev shots. The backgrounds look canned, and the missile smoke and contrails look added in by a paint program. All three shots show only F-15s, so it's probably the only 3D model done so far.

Nice textures, though.

Charlie901
07-31-2005, 04:03 PM
Yeah, throw in a flight model even close to IL2's or LOMAC's and you'd get a whopping 1FPS with those pretty graphics.

knightflyte
07-31-2005, 04:55 PM
Are we spoiled or what? LOL

I hope the game does well and attracts simmers.
We can use all the simmers we can get. Kind of like the Red Sox needing insurance runs in a game before the bullpen start for releif.

Badsight.
07-31-2005, 07:34 PM
oh boy does that ever look like a must buy

man CFS games are finally going to have a decent console home with the PS3 & Xbox360

god only knows both will totally smoke my PC as it is , & i run FB & Lomac on this thing ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Airmail109
08-01-2005, 08:17 AM
I dont care what you guys think: but if they produce rudder pedals and a HOTAS stick for the Xbox 360 it IS the way foreward. For christ sake this thing has 3 yes 3 cpus running at 3.2ghz!!!!!!!!!! 512mb of GDDR3 Ram running at 700mhz and a GFX card that will make your new fangled 7800gtx look like a piece of ****.

Think what 3 3.2ghz cpus could do for the Flight model, damadge model ETC. The possibilities are endless.

Eraser_tr
08-01-2005, 12:12 PM
god ****ed console fanboys, why can't they just play their FFXVXIIVXIVIXV and not try to **** up the PC market. The day any console outperforms an up to date PC will be the day the sun stops shining. and what use is any up to date hardware if its run and displayed at nothing more than the low resolutions all(even HD) TVs have compared to a good monitor.

on the game. very obviously photoshopped pics, just like the pre 4.00 patch pictures by members showing ki-100's. aside from that, such visual quality has been surpassed already on PCs

Airmail109
08-01-2005, 12:46 PM
I am sorry to say the xbox 360 will be more powerfull than the best pcs for at least a 1-2 years. HDTVS will give perfectly adaquate resoloution combined with the amount of AA these new consoles are gonna be capable of you wont be able to tell the difference.

Oh and the best flight sims dont come close to those graphics in terms of quality.

carguy_
08-01-2005, 01:33 PM
Well I`ve seen an interview with PSX2 gamemaker and he said that games for PCs are VERY complicated and far harder to make than games on console whatever multiply power they have.I`m sure that to a broad extent this applies also to XBOX360 and PSX3 since consoles are getting started at taking simulations.

What struck me is that they pretty often resign from making games on PCs because of the programming differences.

So far this has been a graphics(consoles) vs. realism(PC) wars.

They can shove their photo realistic graphics if things gonna work like in GT series.

VFA-195 Snacky
08-01-2005, 04:25 PM
Consoles are the future of gaming like it or not.
PCs will hang on for some genres like flight sims, but for the most part consoles are exceeding PCs now.

fordfan25
08-01-2005, 06:09 PM
those graphics bic!h slap LOMAC and put it on the street corner LMAO.

fordfan25
08-01-2005, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by Eraser_tr:
god ****ed console fanboys, why can't they just play their FFXVXIIVXIVIXV and not try to **** up the PC market. The day any console outperforms an up to date PC will be the day the sun stops shining. and what use is any up to date hardware if its run and displayed at nothing more than the low resolutions all(even HD) TVs have compared to a good monitor.

on the game. very obviously photoshopped pics, just like the pre 4.00 patch pictures by members showing ki-100's. aside from that, such visual quality has been surpassed already on PCs


sounds like a scared little PC fanboy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif.

and how is it ******* up the pc market? other than whiping its *** at softwear sales. haveing games like that even if there more arcadeish than we would like it may get new players intersted in sim's thus geting more people buying Pc sims. thats just how i got into pc flight sims. played a few wanna be sims on consoles over the years and then steped up.

JG7_Rall
08-01-2005, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by fordfan25:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eraser_tr:
god ****ed console fanboys, why can't they just play their FFXVXIIVXIVIXV and not try to **** up the PC market. The day any console outperforms an up to date PC will be the day the sun stops shining. and what use is any up to date hardware if its run and displayed at nothing more than the low resolutions all(even HD) TVs have compared to a good monitor.

on the game. very obviously photoshopped pics, just like the pre 4.00 patch pictures by members showing ki-100's. aside from that, such visual quality has been surpassed already on PCs


sounds like a scared little PC fanboy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif.

and how is it ******* up the pc market? other than whiping its *** at softwear sales. haveing games like that even if there more arcadeish than we would like it may get new players intersted in sim's thus geting more people buying Pc sims. thats just how i got into pc flight sims. played a few wanna be sims on consoles over the years and then steped up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


LOL @ FFXVXIIVXIVIXV

Charlie901
08-01-2005, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
I am sorry to say the xbox 360 will be more powerfull than the best pcs for at least a 1-2 years.



How could they if they retail for $350.00.

Sorry, but no console for that price will ever outpower a current, top-o'-the-line PC, PERIOD!

Under that same anology, top-o'-the-line PC's sould be retailing for under $100.00 then.


Obviously corners have to be cut somewhere "if" that powerful of a system is going to be retailed to children?

TgD Thunderbolt56
08-02-2005, 07:34 AM
CPU Magazine has a nice write-up on the next-gen consoles and explains a good bit of what's going to make them faster and better. Even then, they say the pc will still have considerably more diverse applications, but the gap is narrowing.

I have to interject here though, that I DID pick up a shiny new PSP and this thing ROCKS! It has a nice mini-DVD player (Proprietarily called UMD's), a sony memorystick duo slot, wireless 802.11b connectivity and the baddest little handheld 16:9 LCD screen ever made. At $250 though it's not cheap. I love mine so far.


TB

Dexmeister
08-02-2005, 11:17 AM
Ever since 4.01 turned PF into PC (pieceocr@p), I've been immensely enjoying racing Forza and being a Gangsta on my Xbox. PC Gaming is great if your second hobby is tweaking a PC.

Some of us like to turn on and go, not turn on, shut down background apps, wipe the RAM, doublecheck AA settings, benchmark, apply patches, update video drivers, reboot, reconfigure controllers, strap an IR device on our head, and go...

Anyone that doesn't see the viability of consoles and the reason to own one may as well get back to listening to Beach Boys 8 tracks and call it a day http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Airmail109
08-02-2005, 01:04 PM
Charlie....the XBOX 360 is out in november. It will be loaded with 3 x 3.2 ghz IBM CPUS, 512mb of GDDR3 Ram running at 700mhz and a graphics card with the equivilent to 48 pixel pipelines running at 550 mhz. (The graphics card is made by ATI "Codenamed R500")HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM let me think......mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....that beats ANY and I mean ANY PC you will be able to buy for at least another year. No matter how much it costs....that sort of hardware is yonks away from making it to PCS!

Christ weve just started to be able to get Dual core cpus running at 2.4 ghz.....thats way off what this new console will have!

Oh and they are selling the consoles at a loss and generating revenue through software sales. This was done with the original xbox and PS2!

96th_Nightshifter
08-02-2005, 05:47 PM
Sounds impressive, I was always a console gamer and was never satisfied with the flight games available so stepped up to the PC arena for my fix.
I share my time between them, like someone has stated, sometimes you just wanna switch it on and get gaming with out all the hassle that comes with PC's (though I do love em so).
I'll always have both a PC and the latest console (Playstation will be my weapon of choice) as the two experiences are at this stage completely different forms of entertainment - if I had the choice and could play this type of simulation on a console thats what I would be doing, at least on a console you KNOW that the game will run on it to its utmost potential and be the same for everyone.

Badsight.
08-02-2005, 11:31 PM
the new PS3 & Xbox360 are going to be VERY good gaming platforms

but PC elietists shouldnt worry , by the time both are out the same tech will be filtering into the computer stores for PC's

what both the PS3 & Xbox360 need is PROPER Keyboard & Mouse support

fordfan25
08-03-2005, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by Badsight.:
the new PS3 & Xbox360 are going to be VERY good gaming platforms

but PC elietists shouldnt worry , by the time both are out the same tech will be filtering into the computer stores for PC's

what both the PS3 & Xbox360 need is PROPER Keyboard & Mouse support

"but PC elietists shouldnt worry , by the time both are out the same tech will be filtering into the computer stores for PC's"

and costing them 4 times as much http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif lol.

360 is looking good. i will not buy a ps3. i have had nothing but problems with sony hardwear as have MANY people. im sick of haveing to buy a play station twice do to the first geting read disk errors after 2 years of use. im waiting to see what ninty is going to do with the REV. i gots to havem my zelda baby yea. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

PC's are great. if it wernt for the HIGH cost and the tech **** id choose PC gameing every time but im sick of every game i buy haveing some bunch of **** bugs that i have to spend days on help sites or weeks/mounths waiting on patchs to fix. when i want to work i want to get paid for it not pay to do it. when i want to play i want to have fun not work.

carguy_
08-03-2005, 04:52 PM
I`m being little hostile towards consoles because I can afford either PC or a console,not both.Both have very strong sides so far irreplaceble by other though.So it`s a bigger of a problem for those willing for PCs to keep getting more and better games.Consoles put PC games in danger.Why make games for PC if consoles are better at it and don`t cause many problems?

Anyway,I have yet to see a console game that had me hooked like IL2,Fallout or TOCA.

fordfan25
08-03-2005, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by carguy_:
I`m being little hostile towards consoles because I can afford either PC or a console,not both.Both have very strong sides so far irreplaceble by other though.So it`s a bigger of a problem for those willing for PCs to keep getting more and better games.Consoles put PC games in danger.Why make games for PC if consoles are better at it and don`t cause many problems?

Anyway,I have yet to see a console game that had me hooked like IL2,Fallout or TOCA.

no resone to get hostial at consoles just because there doing something right. get hostial at pc game and hardwear makes for doing what there doing wrong. seems every company and there mother is makeing 50,000 defernt parts and drivers ect. thats what F***'s every thing up. IMO there should be some kinda organisation that should make rules and inforcethem when it comes to PC hardwear. its bullsh** when a video card company comes out with a new set of GPUs 2 and 3 times a year. one set of cards a year should be enough. low,med,and high end. and one maby 2 sets of drivers for said cards. there is no resone a card company should have to release new drivers because a game maker could not get his softwear to run on current drivers.

ati,nvidea should release a set of drivers and say thats it make it work. with less **** on the shelves it would simplify things by alot. thats what makes consoles so stable. one thing about consoles id like to see change is eather A: bring out a new system evry 3 years instead of 5 or B: after a few years relese some kinda easy to do and affordble upgrade pack for there current system. nintendo did that in a small way with the n64 when thay made the memory booster pack wich allowed for higher texture res.

now thats all just my opinion. im not a fanboy of eather PC or console. i think both have there ups and downs.

Hoatee
08-07-2005, 04:33 AM
If sims could be developed for the console of the same calibre that's been made for the pc's, I would choose a console over a pc.

My pc is currently used for solely for gaming. But it recently was infected with malware. I think that's one advantage consoles have over pc's (however, virii have been made for mobiles so, who knows?). And consoles are all the same - no need for game designers to take into account the myriad of pc configurations out there.

But I also agree that consoles should come equipped with a pc keyboard, mouse and joystick (those gamepads are awful - besides which my handicap hand can't handle them).

The biggest problem with internet play though is lag....

flemsha
08-07-2005, 06:40 AM
I see no reason why a good sim couldn't be made for a console, given the right controls. And the possible level of immersion a big TV could provide compared with a PC screen is something to think about.

The biggest likely problem is that sims are a niche group of gamers compared with arcade gamers. Your average gamer is not likely to pick up a hardcore sim and spend the time it takes to learn to fly, let alone fight. They want to take off, do impossible maneuvers and kill something, to feel like they are the best pilots in the world. Any console sim is going to need to make allowances for these gamers to turn a profit, and yet cater for the hardcore sim crowd.

Hawggy
08-07-2005, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by flemsha:
Any console sim is going to need to make allowances for these gamers to turn a profit, and yet cater for the hardcore sim crowd.

What hardcore sim crowd? There's NEVER been a hardcore sim crowd in console-land, just like there aren't any Madden and NBA Live fans that play them on PC. The simplistic nature of the console is what builds it's finacial base. Attempting to sim on it is akin to attempting to drift race in a golf-cart: It doesn't matter how powerful it is, it's just not gonna get you the desired results.

Daiichidoku
08-07-2005, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by Badsight.:

what both the PS3 & Xbox360 need is PROPER Keyboard & Mouse support



YUP!


doesnt matter to me, console or PC...only thing i see limiting consoles now, at least in regards of "flight sims" is the lack of enuff inputs, buttons, etc

hell, id prefer a console, hook it up to ANY tv, anywhere....cant do that with my PC

flemsha
08-08-2005, 02:51 AM
Well two points:

1. I was referring to attracting the sim crowd to the consoles, and

2. Just because you enjoy sims doesn't mean you won't own a console

I have an X-box, and I love it for its simplistic games, and I also love FB/PF and LOMAC, one does not exclude the other.


Originally posted by Hawggy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flemsha:
Any console sim is going to need to make allowances for these gamers to turn a profit, and yet cater for the hardcore sim crowd.

What hardcore sim crowd? There's NEVER been a hardcore sim crowd in console-land, just like there aren't any Madden and NBA Live fans that play them on PC. The simplistic nature of the console is what builds it's finacial base. Attempting to sim on it is akin to attempting to drift race in a golf-cart: It doesn't matter how powerful it is, it's just not gonna get you the desired results. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hawggy
08-08-2005, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by flemsha:
Well two points:

1. I was referring to attracting the sim crowd to the consoles, and

2. Just because you enjoy sims doesn't mean you won't own a console

1) Attracting true simmmers to console is almost an impossibility. Consoles, w/o upgradablility, are extremely limited to what they can do. Just compare Gran Turismo with the PC sim GTR. The MP aspects, the expandability, the option to mod, graphics, etc. Point being, if I grew up on Porter House steaks, why settle for White Castle burgers?

2)Very true, I LOVE CONSOLES. Had an infatuation with them since the Famicom was released, while I was learning how to program in BASIC on my C64. Konami, Capcom, Rare, SquareEnix - I have much respect for them. But, trying to convince me that Silent Hunter 3 and Pacific Fighters would be viable on a console is just insane - no offense, just a humble opinion brought on by facts:

A) How would I use voice recognition on a console?
B) How would I create a custom campaign with a console?
C) How would I webhost my campaigns to the world with a console?
D) How would I create a mod for my game with a console?
E) How would I download a patch for a sim with my console?

The list goes on & on. Now, I'm not downing consoles at all, I'm just saying through their design, they are not able to handle the rigors a tough sim puts a game machine through....

Consoles are like puppies that never grow up: They're cute, fun, and small, but when it's time to get serious, you have no choice but to get a more mature pet - the PC.

fordfan25
08-08-2005, 04:21 PM
all those COULD be perfectly posable with console. not current of course. heck consoles have had voice rec sence N64. there was a game out for the first PS that allowed you to make your own RPG. youd be able to creat a mod if the game makers made soft wear built into the game. there talking about players being able to make mods for 360, host them for download and even charge money for them. and seeing as consoles now have broad band conections and harddrives downloading patchs is very posible but the great thing is with consoles you dont have to. the games are made right the first time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Hawggy
08-08-2005, 05:18 PM
Well, heck the games have to be considering the secretive nature of console developing, but I sure agree with you - console coders have a nack for finesse when squeazing graphix, fun-factor, and stability into an unpatchable product. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Still, for many reasons, this 360 is moving closer to what PC's achieve as of now - It'll soon be overtaken by it again - the PC h-ware realm actually allows for these next gen consoles to go to new heights. What makes anyone think the cutting edge PC tech will slow down once the devs finally figure out how to code on their new consoles efficiently is something I just don't get. That's all.

Many folk say, "The 360 will mop the floor with my sys specs". Yeah, that's because you haven't gone out and bought a dual-core 64-bit processor with the not-in-existence-yet next-gen vid card (Unless you upgrade your PC every other month). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

fordfan25
08-08-2005, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by Hawggy:
Well, heck the games have to be considering the secretive nature of console developing, but I sure agree with you - console coders have a nack for finesse when squeazing graphix, fun-factor, and stability into an unpatchable product. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Still, for many reasons, this 360 is moving closer to what PC's achieve as of now - It'll soon be overtaken by it again - the PC h-ware realm actually allows for these next gen consoles to go to new heights. What makes anyone think the cutting edge PC tech will slow down once the devs finally figure out how to code on their new consoles efficiently is something I just don't get. That's all.

Many folk say, "The 360 will mop the floor with my sys specs". Yeah, that's because you haven't gone out and bought a dual-core 64-bit processor with the not-in-existence-yet next-gen vid card (Unless you upgrade your PC every other month). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


thing i hate is even when the 360 comes out itll be roughly 299.99$ us. now even if that mounth thay come out with a card for pc thats in the ball park of the 360 the card alon will cost the same as the 360 and prob a hundred or so more. pc as a GAMEING sulution is WAY WAY over priced. now like i said as a GAMEING sulution. i dont care about doing my tax's or any of that ****. were pc gamers and thats the only resone i can think of to spend 400+ on a card alone not counting cpu ram ect. some people say 400 bucks is well worth it. well i say there intitled to ther opinions but i just wish i had there kinda money that i felt perfectly fine about droping that kinda cash on a chunk of plastic that ill have to replace more than likely in 3 years or less. now guys say that well even if a card is geting old then u can cut down the settings fine but that kinda takes away the edge of those giant leaps in graphics pc gamers injoy after a few years that said console is out.

i wish pc makers hardwear and soft wear alike would get to gather and come up with a bit more lean solution for the pc game market. maby release a stable runing programe made JUST for gameing and the things that go along with it like networking ect. just a striped down leaner OS like win xp but with out all the running process's ect that most gamers disable anyway. charge a more gamer friendly price. instead of 200 bucks for a normal OS with 80% of it going to wast and takeing up resources that is not needed and some times just get in the way. hardwear as well. the turn over in gpu and cpu tech is crazy. thats why the pc market is so small for games compaird to console. i think last year or year befor the nintendo GBA sold more units of softwear than the whole of pc gameing. i dont have a link nore am i going to dig for hourse to find it. if i mem is mistaken then forgive.

VW-IceFire
08-08-2005, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
I am sorry to say the xbox 360 will be more powerfull than the best pcs for at least a 1-2 years. HDTVS will give perfectly adaquate resoloution combined with the amount of AA these new consoles are gonna be capable of you wont be able to tell the difference.

Oh and the best flight sims dont come close to those graphics in terms of quality.
I was reading that programmers are having a hard time taking advantage of the hardware the way it is. The first generation of XBox 360 and PS3 games are going to be fantastic looking but nowhere near taking advantage of the hardware present. By the time they do...the PC's platform will be caught up and surpassed.

Still, I'm glad that the XBox360 and PS3 platforms are far reaching as they seem to be looking at the future of hardware rather than incorporating the bleeding edge present as with the XBox and PS2.

walsh2509
08-08-2005, 10:24 PM
I don't know about the spec of the graphic chips in the 360 or PS3 but I did watch the Sony and MS spins on Vid from E3 and the guy they brought in from Nvidia said that the chip they were working on for the PS3 was Twice that's Twice as powerful as 2 yes 2 6800 (at the time of E3 there latest card) Now Nvidia are about to bring out the 7800 series and this will cost near $500!! and its still not as powerful as the (I think its called ) RSX chip for the PS3...


I take it the ATI chip for the Xbox360 will be as powerful as the one for the PS3, O am guessing that this RSX chip that NV is making for Sony will not make it onto a Board for a PC for a year or more yet! and even when it does it will cost over $500 ...

You could buy a PS3 for that or save nearly 200 and buy a Xbox360 ..

My old box is just a tad over 2 years old .. I have a P4 2Ghz 1GB DDR 80GB Hd and (red face) GF4 TI4200 128mb (still plays games like SHIII Lock On and a good few others )

Now I know that I wont be able to play the likes of BF2 or some of the top games that will be coming out over the next year or so ..

So this is a crossroads for me now , I would have to buy a new MB New Micro New Mem and a New Video card to set myself up for the next 2 to 3 years .. that would cost me over 1000..

Do I spend a 1000 or spend $300 ( what about 200 )

I think I know where I'll be heading, 200 to 300 a get a box with a 3.2Ghz Processor 512Mb of ver fast Mem and a next gen graphic chip that wont hit the PC market for another year or more ..

I think I'll be spending the 200 to 300, and wait and see where the PC gaming market is going ...

walsh2509
08-08-2005, 10:34 PM
The latest news from the XBox 360 camp suggests that Microsoft's next-generation offering is well on schedule for a November release and may prove even more impressive than we had initially suspected.

In an article in the inquirer, images of Microsoft's XBox 360 in what is claimed to be its final hardware configuration are displayed as the machine is running ATI's Rubi hardware demo. The demonstration, part of ATI's show at Siggraph 2005, suggests that the console's rendering power will be immense and ATI claims that the Rubi model, running at 720p resolution, was rendered with 70,000 polygons while reaching, at times, as many as 120,000 polygons per character. The most extravagant claim mentioned that at its peak the demo reached one million polygons per scene. According to the Canadian graphics manufacturer, the hardware included in x360 will not be matched on the desktop until it comes up with its next-generation of hardware, meaning that the R5xx range will not be a match for x360.

As carefully planned as that boast by ATI may seem, it is hard to imagine that kind of rendering power on a current PC. All this comes as rumors that MS may up the price of its next-gen console now that Sony has confirmed and reconfirmed how far beyond the consumers budget the PS3 will be. The logic seems to be that if consumers discover that they can easily afford the x360 they may end up not respecting it.

fordfan25
08-08-2005, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by walsh2509:
I don't know about the spec of the graphic chips in the 360 or PS3 but I did watch the Sony and MS spins on Vid from E3 and the guy they brought in from Nvidia said that the chip they were working on for the PS3 was Twice that's Twice as powerful as 2 yes 2 6800 (at the time of E3 there latest card) Now Nvidia are about to bring out the 7800 series and this will cost near $500!! and its still not as powerful as the (I think its called ) RSX chip for the PS3...


I take it the ATI chip for the Xbox360 will be as powerful as the one for the PS3, O am guessing that this RSX chip that NV is making for Sony will not make it onto a Board for a PC for a year or more yet! and even when it does it will cost over $500 ...

You could buy a PS3 for that or save nearly 200 and buy a Xbox360 ..

My old box is just a tad over 2 years old .. I have a P4 2Ghz 1GB DDR 80GB Hd and (red face) GF4 TI4200 128mb (still plays games like SHIII Lock On and a good few others )

Now I know that I wont be able to play the likes of BF2 or some of the top games that will be coming out over the next year or so ..

So this is a crossroads for me now , I would have to buy a new MB New Micro New Mem and a New Video card to set myself up for the next 2 to 3 years .. that would cost me over 1000..

Do I spend a 1000 or spend $300 ( what about 200 )

I think I know where I'll be heading, 200 to 300 a get a box with a 3.2Ghz Processor 512Mb of ver fast Mem and a next gen graphic chip that wont hit the PC market for another year or more ..

I think I'll be spending the 200 to 300, and wait and see where the PC gaming market is going ...


by the way its not more powerfull than 2 6800's its more powerfull than two 6800 ultras http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif big deff

Badsight.
08-08-2005, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by Hawggy:
I'm just saying through their design, they are not able to handle the rigors a tough sim puts a game machine through....

Consoles are like puppies that never grow up: They're cute, fun, and small, but when it's time to get serious, you have no choice but to get a more mature pet - the PC. these next gen consoles put the firm kick in the @ss to this statement here

they are more powerfull in stats than anything you can get for the PC right now

this will change , but what wont change is teh Xbox360 & PS3 being powerfull gaming machines , that is going to be reality

i love GTR too , but saying it cant come to a Console is rubbish , lack of power is the single biggest reason that you dont see PC spec sims on consoles right now . sims have a perfectly powerfull enough home with these 2 new consoles tho

& this is a even bigger threat to PC gaming than the market domination of consoles in the gaming market has ever been

Badsight.
08-08-2005, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by walsh2509:
As carefully planned as that boast by ATI may seem, it is hard to imagine that kind of rendering power on a current PC. All this comes as rumors that MS may up the price of its next-gen console now that Sony has confirmed and reconfirmed how far beyond the consumers budget the PS3 will be. The logic seems to be that if consumers discover that they can easily afford the x360 they may end up not respecting it. its said that even the X800 & 6800U are CPU bound , they could scream even faster if not bottlenecked by the CPU

& Processing power is not something the 360 is going to be short of

Badsight.
08-08-2005, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Hawggy:
A) How would I use voice recognition on a console?
B) How would I create a custom campaign with a console?
C) How would I webhost my campaigns to the world with a console?
D) How would I create a mod for my game with a console?
E) How would I download a patch for a sim with my console?. none of those have anything to do with running a simulation

well that last one does , but i take it that you have never used Xbox Live! ?

Xbox games get patches & downloadable content right now

the beauty of Consoles is that you hacve the same set-up the world over

this is the single biggest turn-off for the PC gamer & is something i can totally understand

fordfan25
08-09-2005, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by Badsight.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hawggy:
I'm just saying through their design, they are not able to handle the rigors a tough sim puts a game machine through....

Consoles are like puppies that never grow up: They're cute, fun, and small, but when it's time to get serious, you have no choice but to get a more mature pet - the PC. these next gen consoles put the firm kick in the @ss to this statement here

they are more powerfull in stats than anything you can get for the PC right now

this will change , but what wont change is teh Xbox360 & PS3 being powerfull gaming machines , that is going to be reality

i love GTR too , but saying it cant come to a Console is rubbish , lack of power is the single biggest reason that you dont see PC spec sims on consoles right now . sims have a perfectly powerfull enough home with these 2 new consoles tho

& this is a even bigger threat to PC gaming than the market domination of consoles in the gaming market has ever been </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

not only does the 360's "specs" beat the shizzle outa whats on the market now but also consoles can do "gameing wise" much more than pc's with the same specs.

EagleDeer
08-09-2005, 03:30 AM
you guys should see the debate this issue has sparked on Avsim. Its runored that the next Flight Simulator will only be released on xbox. Needless to say many are pissed, some are happy. But at this stage, I think its only a rumor.

Airmail109
08-09-2005, 09:02 AM
ATI have stated their next gen card the ATI R520 will not be as powerful as the Xbox 360s graphics card. The Xbox 360s card will only be matched by the ATI R600 which is the geneartion after the new R520 being developed for the PC.

Sony have also recetnly annouced that the PS3 will be LINUX and TIGER capable! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

"Sony President Ken Kutaragi has revealed that the PlayStation 3 "entertainment supercomputer" will run Linux. In fact, Sony plans to offer hard drives for the console with Linux pre-installed, although it's unclear whether the drives will ship with the system or have to be purchased separately.
This will be the first form that [the Cell] will be spread. It can connect a keyboard, and it has all the necessary interfaces. It can run media, and it can run on a network. It's got such an all-around purpose, and it's open. It will become completely open if we equip it with Linux, and programmers will be able to do anything with it.
Sony seems interested in having enthusiasts exploit the PlayStation 3's considerable potential, but one has to wonder how enthusiastic they'll be when someone writes a Linux app that allows users to pirate games easily."

The pcs days are numbered! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Oh and the PS3 is about twice as powerful as the xbox 360 in terms of processing power!

Here are the PS3s specs!

CPU

Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
GPU
RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines
Sound
Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell- base processing)
Memory
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
System Bandwidth
Main RAM 25.6GB/s
VRAM 22.4GB/s
RSX 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB< 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)
System Floating Point Performance
2 TFLOPS
Storage
Detachable 2.5" HDD slot x 1
I/O
USB Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0)
Memory Stick standard/Duo, PRO x 1
SD standard/mini x 1
CompactFlash (Type I, II) x 1
Communication
Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x 3 (input x 1 + output x 2)
Wi-Fi IEEE 802.11 b/g
Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)
Controller
Bluetooth (up to 7)
USB 2.0 (wired)
Wi-Fi (PSP)
Network (over IP)

AV Output
Screen size: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI: HDMI out x 2
Analog: AV MULTI OUT x 1
Digital audio: DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1
Disc Media
CD PlayStation CD-ROM, PlayStation 2 CD-ROM, CD-DA, CD-DA (ROM), CD-R, CD-RW, SACD, SACD Hybrid (CD layer), SACD HD, DualDisc, DualDisc (audio side), DualDisc (DVD side)
DVD: PlayStation 2 DVD-ROM, PlayStation 3 DVD-ROM, DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW
Blu-ray Disc: PlayStation 3 BD-ROM, BD-Video, BD-ROM, BD-R, BD-RE

The PS3 uses a new design called a CELL which effectively has 8 Processors. Its far more powerfull than any dual core X86 based CPU in the design pipelines.

fordfan25
08-09-2005, 02:01 PM
owned. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif j/k.

the ps3 is said to be super powerfull but i wont buy one. evey sony product iv bought has not lasted. i take good care of the few things i can afford to own but i had to buy 3 ps1's do to them wearing out and haveing game freezes and i only had my ps2 for two years and started geting those lovely read disk errors. and most of my gameing in those two years were on my old dell. thats one thing ill always look up to nintendo for. iv had all there systems and NEVER had the first one go bad. sony makes cheap throw away products imo. iv been doing car audio for a number of years and iv also had bad luck with there cd players and amps.

i just dont trust M$. but im glade to see there at least makeing a dent in japan. those guys dont want to buy any thing USA made. thay just want us to buy threre stuff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

nintendo has always been a bit on the cocky side. and a bit pig headed but thay are responable for most inovations in the console gameing market. im waiting to see what thay got planed for the REV.

im not sure if im going to keep pc gameing.its alot of fun planning out your next custome built pc and all but its just far to costly for me. if i had other use's for a pc then maby. but spending 1200 bucks just for a medium to high spec rig that wount last more than a few years just does not sit right with me you know. if i was like CRASH and was a little rich boy then maby .........

Spinne_3.-JG51
08-09-2005, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
Charlie....the XBOX 360 is out in november. It will be loaded with 3 x 3.2 ghz IBM CPUS, 512mb of GDDR3 Ram running at 700mhz and a graphics card with the equivilent to 48 pixel pipelines running at 550 mhz. (The graphics card is made by ATI "Codenamed R500")HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM let me think......mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....that beats ANY and I mean ANY PC you will be able to buy for at least another year. No matter how much it costs....that sort of hardware is yonks away from making it to PCS!

Christ weve just started to be able to get Dual core cpus running at 2.4 ghz.....thats way off what this new console will have!

Oh and they are selling the consoles at a loss and generating revenue through software sales. This was done with the original xbox and PS2!

Do a quick background check before you post. You'll appear to be less of an idiot. No game comming out on consoles for the next two years is scheduled to use more than one core. Currently, devs believe that one single cored CPU is better than two slower CPUs for games because no game takes advantage of SMP. The R500 and R520 share smilar specs as do the G70 (already out). The reason why the XBox 360 ships with 3 processors is so that it can have a viable lifetime of 3-4 years running low detail games towards the end. Everyone wowed the XBox when it came out, but now it's ****.

Griffon_25th
08-09-2005, 10:33 PM
Will the Xbox 360 be able to go up and past 1024x768 or whatever resolutions...and can you plug a monitor in it?

fordfan25
08-09-2005, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by Griffon_25th:
Will the Xbox 360 be able to go up and past 1024x768 or whatever resolutions...and can you plug a monitor in it?


all xbox 360 games will be HD. 7 hundred something at least and all the way up to what ever it is thats the top tear of HD tv's. i think 1024P, besides who needs 1024/768 when your playing on a 60inch wide screen in even normal high deff. ill be playn on a 32inch SDtv but im just sayn u could lol

fordfan25
08-09-2005, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by Spinne_3.-JG51:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Charlie....the XBOX 360 is out in november. It will be loaded with 3 x 3.2 ghz IBM CPUS, 512mb of GDDR3 Ram running at 700mhz and a graphics card with the equivilent to 48 pixel pipelines running at 550 mhz. (The graphics card is made by ATI "Codenamed R500")HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM let me think......mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....that beats ANY and I mean ANY PC you will be able to buy for at least another year. No matter how much it costs....that sort of hardware is yonks away from making it to PCS!

Christ weve just started to be able to get Dual core cpus running at 2.4 ghz.....thats way off what this new console will have!

Oh and they are selling the consoles at a loss and generating revenue through software sales. This was done with the original xbox and PS2!

Do a quick background check before you post. You'll appear to be less of an idiot. No game comming out on consoles for the next two years is scheduled to use more than one core. Currently, devs believe that one single cored CPU is better than two slower CPUs for games because no game takes advantage of SMP. The R500 and R520 share smilar specs as do the G70 (already out). The reason why the XBox 360 ships with 3 processors is so that it can have a viable lifetime of 3-4 years running low detail games towards the end. Everyone wowed the XBox when it came out, but now it's ****. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

link to offical source of info please.

and if so, looking at how the graphics of gears of war owns running on just one of the 3 cpus..... heck thats even sweater knowing. that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif and besides id rather pay 300$ now and be playing "low detail " games 4 years form now that are stable than paying 1200$ now and playing "low detail" games in two years while tryn to download the patch for doom4 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Badsight.
08-10-2005, 01:41 AM
the max HDTV resolution is supported

its 1024 x 768 no ?

Hawggy
08-10-2005, 08:42 AM
Either way - it's much less than 1600x1200x32 (with AA & AF), which is the definition of beauty. I'm still trying to figure out how this console will look better than a .19 dot pitch monitor @ such a high rez. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

fordfan25
08-10-2005, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Badsight.:
the max HDTV resolution is supported

its 1024 x 768 no ?

as far as i know. thay have 1024i and 1024p. 1024p being progrssive scan wich looks a bit sharper.

fordfan25
08-10-2005, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by Hawggy:
Either way - it's much less than 1600x1200x32 (with AA & AF), which is the definition of beauty. I'm still trying to figure out how this console will look better than a .19 dot pitch monitor @ such a high rez. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


when was the last time you were able to play 1600X1200=AA/AF res on a up to date game like say doom3 and still have smooth FPS? i have a 6800gt with a amd64bit cpu and i know i dang sure cant. besides you can play on a much bigger screen like a 60 incher. and you dont have to shell out 1500$+ to do it. or pay 100 to 200 just for the OS to run it.

Hawggy
08-10-2005, 12:48 PM
Try Half-Life2, and it looks better than Doom3.... Silent Hunter 3 plays well at that res - UT'04 runs smooth. Honestly, I don't see why you can't run Doom3 at that rez - I almost can get away with it, and your system smokes mine.....

knightflyte
08-10-2005, 08:26 PM
Like them or hate them there is no denying the cost effectiveness of a console.

I think console manufacturers understand the limitations of their product and try to either over come the obstacles or accentuate what the console does well.

I haven't seen too much info on the new gaming systems. (I'll look toward the Sony.......maybe)
But I imagine a hard drive if not available out of the box will be a necessary add on.

Logictecs Driving Wheel works for BOTH PS and PCs.

PS 2 has several USB inputs. I can't see why PS3 or XBOX 360 couldn't have several USB 2 ports. Internet connection too. Add in a hard drive with allocation for driver support and you've got yourself a sim machine.

Frankly, as much as I love IL2 and several other games I'd gladly spend $500 for a stable game system that won't be obsolete in 2 - 3 months. I'm tired of driver issues with video/ sound cards. I hate spending $500 for a video card for the best graphics. (No ones making me....plus I use it for video editing)

I'm not suggesting consoles are the BEST option....but hey, it's getting there. PS 4?

Think of how seriously silly it is to spend $2000 OR MORE for a gaming computer. You can call me one of the Silly ones.

fordfan25
08-10-2005, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by knightflyte:
Like them or hate them there is no denying the cost effectiveness of a console.

I think console manufacturers understand the limitations of their product and try to either over come the obstacles or accentuate what the console does well.

I haven't seen too much info on the new gaming systems. (I'll look toward the Sony.......maybe)
But I imagine a hard drive if not available out of the box will be a necessary add on.

Logictecs Driving Wheel works for BOTH PS and PCs.

PS 2 has several USB inputs. I can't see why PS3 or XBOX 360 couldn't have several USB 2 ports. Internet connection too. Add in a hard drive with allocation for driver support and you've got yourself a sim machine.

Frankly, as much as I love IL2 and several other games I'd gladly spend $500 for a stable game system that won't be obsolete in 2 - 3 months. I'm tired of driver issues with video/ sound cards. I hate spending $500 for a video card for the best graphics. (No ones making me....plus I use it for video editing)

I'm not suggesting consoles are the BEST option....but hey, it's getting there. PS 4?

Think of how seriously silly it is to spend $2000 OR MORE for a gaming computer. You can call me one of the Silly ones.

and just think how in 3 years that 2000$ PC is going to need 500$ or so in upgrades to play what ever that years doom3 is. i mean 2000$ thats a lota mony man. alot. it would be diff if a pc would out last a console but **** a 2000 dollor rig will last roughly half the life span. Like i say i love my pc. its alot of fun not just the games but building them and planning out your next one. but **** its just stupid amounts of money. if every game had as much to it as FB/PF then yea but most games are like doom3 fun as he!! "pune intended" but after a short while thay get old and you end up shelveing them. or even if the games cost less to off set the hardwear. but a high profile game will run you as much as a console game. a buddy of mine makes the argument that downloading "free" games as he calls them makes it worth it. but i just cant bring myself to do that. i am not hungry enough to steal a sandwich from 7/11 im sure not bord enough to steal BF2 lol.

Dexmeister
08-11-2005, 07:23 AM
For PC gaming and simming, I run a Matrox Parhelia with 3 21" monitors. Res is 3840x1024. It looks wild and enhances the realism of gaming.

That said, for my XBox I can play on a 77" wide (6+feet) HD projector, sitting on the couch.

Apples & oranges folks, but let it be said that Xbox in HD on a projector looks freaken awesome. Forza racing, Grand Theft Auto or Ghost Recon as examples, are absolutely crazy.

Like it or not, consoles offer something great to gamers, and a few months after XBox360's release when the prices drop a little, I'll be grabbing one, no question.

I can have the best setup for console gaming and still have spent less than 30% of what a top notch PC costs... Do the math.

Airmail109
08-11-2005, 10:14 AM
Hellooo anyone in there.......the PS3 will be able to run Linix and Tiger, it will be capable of using a mouse and keyboard...meaing it could be a desktop replacement. Thus this machine would be perfectly suited to developing a flight sim on.

Oh itll be capable of 1080P resoloutions which is the equivilent to something like 1920x1080. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Oh and ATI have staed the R500 is not like the R520 at all and is a completely different graphic card.

"337 million transistors total
500 MHz parent GPU (90 nm process, 232 million transistors)
10 MiB daughter eDRAM Framebuffer (90 nm process, 105 million transistors)
eDRAM has internal logic for Color, Alpha Blend, ZStencil and MSAA.
48-way parallel floating-point dynamically-scheduled shader pipelines (ALU's for Vertex or Pixel Shader processing)
Unified shader architecture (This means that the pipelines are shared between pixel pipelines and vertex shaders; for example, 42 pixel pipelines : 6 vertex shaders).
16 Filtered & 16 Unfiltered Texture samples per clock
Polygon Performance: 500 million triangles per second
Pixel Fill Rate: 16 gigasamples per second fillrate using 4X MSAA
Shader Performance: 48 billion (48,000 million) shader operations per second (96 billion shader operations per second theoretical maximum)
Dot product operations: 9 billion per second (Microsoft figure), 33.6 billion/second when combined with CPU power /"

The cards specs are quite different to the R520s!

"ATI R520
24 "Pipelines"
32 Texture Units
96 Arithmetic Logic Units
192 Shader Operations per Cycle
700MHz Core
256-bit 512MB 1.8GHz GDDR3 Memory
57.6 GB/sec Bandwidth (at 1.8GHz)
300-350 Million Transistors
90nm Manufacturing
Shader Model 3.0
ATI HyperMemory
ATI Multi Rendering Technology
Launch: Q2 2005 "

The R520 is far less revoloutionary in its design.

Oh the current 24 pipe G70 is a piece of **** compared to what the two will be like heheh.

ReligiousZealot
08-11-2005, 11:57 PM
HEEEELLLLLOOOOOOO has anyone taken the time to think and realize exactly what a console is? A FRIGGIN' LOW END PC FOR YOUR TV. Enough of this silly debate, consoles are never going to take over the market for PCs. Take the time to look at how many people have subscribed to Xbox Live, and then look at the number of Counter-Strike players online. I can garauntee you, you're going to see that the Xbox Live has no hope of ever catching up to that number.

What is with this banter about the various console CPUs/console graphic cards being so much superior?! ATTENTION CONSOLE LOVERS, YOUR CONSOLE AIN'T GOT S*** ON MY 64BIT CPU. Can't you read? If a console costs $300-400 out of the box, that means one of 2 things:
a) You're getting a semi-sweet system for cheap and the company is losing money
b) You're paying for $300-400 worth of technology, nothing near the $2100 I just dumped into my new PC.

Who cares if you can plug a mouse and keyboard into the PS3? I can do it to one of my Xboxes and it's nothing big. If it can run silly Mac OSes, great, call me when it can run XP64.

This is a pointless debate, the day a console kicks the PC off the top of the market is the day a patch takes 2 weeks.

*DISCLAIMER*
For the record, this is my opinion, and if I hurt anyone's feelings, then you probably read what I said wrong. I am merely stating how I feel and I do not mean to insult anyone. Oh yeah, I hate Sony and Macintosh...I love my Microsoft http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Badsight.
08-12-2005, 12:23 AM
the Xbox360 has a CPU with 3 cores

each core is running at over 3-Ghz

the PS3 is even more powerfull

there is no PC CPU that matches them yet that is available , please rant after learning rather than before

also : PC have been kicked in the nutz WRT sales by console games for a long time now , the reason the 360 & the PS3 are generating so much interest is because they are nothing like thrie predecessors , they actually are going to be extremely powerfull gaming machines

the curent consoles do not compare

knightflyte
08-12-2005, 12:35 AM
Clearly computers are better machines. But the returns are deminishing every day. I'll buy another computer. (I wanna fly BoB too)

An SLI with dual cards will cost $1100.00. That's two GeForce 7800s. A decent new processor will cost anywhere from about $800.00 to $1,100. That doesn't include cabinet... hard drives.... memory.... (which could cost another grand)... MOBO which at this time are averaging $150 - $200 (some a lot higher)

Are consoles perfect? nope. Are they going to replace PCs anytime soon? nope. But wait till the NEXT generation and that margin of difference MAY me miniscule.

I prefer PCs too. But an all in one machine that has few problems and compatability issues is a great alternative. And with the right peripherals it will be a simming machine. Just not as strong as a PC. They're still fun tho.

It would be so easy to say go ahead and waste your money on upgrading your PC. It's your money. You be the fool. But in all honesty I'll be the guy next to you at COMP USA looking at Geforce 8800's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

knightflyte
08-12-2005, 12:39 AM
Bad sight,
You bring a good point concerning sales.
I went into Electronics Boutique last night. They had NO PC games on display. I usually get all my PC games at this shop. (Last game I bought there was GTR in May) Nada, Zip, Bupkiss, Zilch. No PC games.

I was truly shocked and wondered to myself what if anything this meant.

ReligiousZealot
08-12-2005, 09:31 AM
I still don't believe consoles are going to be able to kill PCs. The sheer amount of stuff you can do on a PC compared to a console is what is the selling point. What makes PC games have such a longevity is the fact a large portion of their developers realease SDKs to allow 3rd parties to make mods. These mods are sometimes what makes the game worth it. Console developers have to rely soley on the funness of their game in order for it to have longevity in the console world.

Look at Half-Life - it's still on retail shelves and that means it's still selling d*** good for being 6 years old. Take a gander at the recent Battlefield 2 sales and the number of people who play that, if I can remember correctly, it was more anticipated than Halo 2 - ever seen anybody selling used copies of BF2? I haven't, it's because it's an addicting enough game that people are actually upgrading their systems just to play it.

I'm not going to deny and say that consoles may be doing better for sales, but the fact is developers "develope" their games on PCs comparable (usually better) than that of the console their game will be released on. That being said, it means all video games were originally a PC game - that speaks volumes for the power of PCs compared to modern and future consoles.

The only thing I am hoping this so called "console revolution" will bring is the pricing down of PC components making it once again the better idea to own a PC than a console.

JFC_Slumped
08-12-2005, 10:04 AM
In my book, consoles aren't worth a look in until the games can be modded like PC games can. It's the community made mods for clients and servers that keep alot of technically old PC games going, as well as improving them.

Plus the fact that developers can update their games. Yeah it was crappy that PF didn't ship with a flyable Betty, but if it was on console that would have been the end of it.

Obi_Kwiet
08-12-2005, 10:21 AM
Screen One: A pair of totally unimpressive F-15 with a crappy PS blur at the engines.

Screen Two: Same thing superimposed on a blurry picture of terrian. I would not be surprised if that was coming out on the original Xbox. Totally unimpressive compared to other next gen screens.

One other thing to point out. These FPU comparisons to PCs and older consoles are mostly bull. You might in a special situation get that performance difference, but not in real world apps. Nvidia has stated that at the release of the PS3 their will be a more powerful video card for PC's out on the market.

The PS3 is not 2x as powerful as the Xbox 360. It's mostly hype. They will be very close in performance.

fordfan25
08-12-2005, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
Screen One: A pair of totally unimpressive F-15 with a crappy PS blur at the engines.

Screen Two: Same thing superimposed on a blurry picture of terrian. I would not be surprised if that was coming out on the original Xbox. Totally unimpressive compared to other next gen screens.

One other thing to point out. These FPU comparisons to PCs and older consoles are mostly bull. You might in a special situation get that performance difference, but not in real world apps. Nvidia has stated that at the release of the PS3 their will be a more powerful video card for PC's out on the market.

The PS3 is not 2x as powerful as the Xbox 360. It's mostly hype. They will be very close in performance. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Airmail109
08-12-2005, 03:19 PM
Did i not just tell you ****tards that the PS3 will be linux and Tiger capable and will be able to utilise 80 to 120 gig hardrives. The Liniux architecture will be completely open. You will be able to word process with it....connect it to a network...connect to the net.....plug in USB peripherals...like mice and keyboards and guss what that means ull be able to MOD that right MOD the **** games already.

Its like im speaking to a brick wall.

Airmail109
08-12-2005, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
Did i not just tell you ****tards that the PS3 will be linux and Tiger capable and will be able to utilise 80 to 120 gig hardrives. The Liniux architecture will be completely open. You will be able to word process with it....connect it to a network...connect to the net.....plug in USB peripherals...like mice and keyboards and guess what that means ull be able to MOD thats right MOD the **** games already.

Its like im speaking to a brick wall.

knightflyte
08-12-2005, 09:40 PM
The brick wall wasn't listening the first time...... did you need to tell it twice?


LOL


Just kidding.

fordfan25
08-12-2005, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Did i not just tell you ****tards that the PS3 will be linux and Tiger capable and will be able to utilise 80 to 120 gig hardrives. The Liniux architecture will be completely open. You will be able to word process with it....connect it to a network...connect to the net.....plug in USB peripherals...like mice and keyboards and guess what that means ull be able to MOD thats right MOD the **** games already.

Its like im speaking to a brick wall. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

relax man. take a deep breath. some people are just set in there ways. or in other words fanboys. how ever i will say this, sony is the suxers. thay have the uber read disk error tech. way over moddled IMO. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Badsight.
08-13-2005, 07:14 AM
i find this interesting , the Xbox caught up in game title amount with Sony only because it is eaiser to get a game to a finished level quicker/eaiser

the article is with John Carmack , premier game developer

originally posted at Gamespy.com:
Carmack raved about the relative ease of developing for Xbox 360.


But the Xbox 360 was designed to have a very thin API layer. In Carmack's words, he can "basically talk directly to the hardware ... doing exactly what I want."

Here Carmack heaped praise on the decisions that Microsoft has made with the Xbox 360. "It's the best development environment I've seen on a console," he says. Microsoft has taken a very developer-centric approach, creating a system that's both powerful but easy to code for. This is in contrast to Nintendo, Sony, and (formerly) Sega, who generally focused on the hardware.

Carmack ruminated on how throughout history consoles have swung back and forth between providing high-end hardware or development tools. Until the PS1 came out, nearly everything was done at the register level, but Sony's first console shipped with tools to help speed the development process. This was in opposition to the Sega Saturn, which was very powerful but nearly impossible to efficiently code for. Then, with the release of the PS2, Sony flip-flopped: the PS2 had much more complicated hardware and you basically had to program it at the low level again. Then along came the Xbox, which didn't have low-level access but was way easier to program.

Carmack looks forward to what's coming up. "It'll be real interesting to see how this next generation pans out," he said. This time around, the Xbox 360 is coming out sooner and is easier to program; will it be enough to supplant Sony's market lead? &
originally posted at Gamespy.com:
Carmack points out that there could be diminishing returns with the next generation of consoles, thanks to the architecture of the hardware. Although the PS3's Cell processor is powerful, it's still a single-thread processor (unlike high-end PC processors). There's not much more technology can do to crank more speed out of a single-threaded processor. To make up for this deficiency, multiple processors are used: multithreading and parallelism is the way to go. But this isn't easy to do in games! "The returns will initially be disappointing," he explains.

It will take a long time before game developers will figure out how to get the most out of parallel processors, and in the meantime, it's going to make high-end game development more difficult -- "Not a good thing," Carmack says. There's no easy solution to this problem, no special compiler that'll take away the grunt work. "There's no silver bullet for parallel programming."
these words from a source such as this particular guy are most telling

Badsight.
08-13-2005, 07:43 AM
heres a link to the article , its very interesting for general game direction info as well as PS3 & 360 discussion info

http://www.gamespy.com/articles/641/641662p1.html

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
Its like im speaking to a brick wall.
And yet you keep yelling.


Don't blame us when you are the one who can't figure out no one is listening to you.

fordfan25
08-13-2005, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Its like im speaking to a brick wall.
And yet you keep yelling.


Don't blame us when you are the one who can't figure out no one is listening to you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


funny how the words just echo right off of them http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif