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ODSTVenix
07-15-2009, 01:36 PM
what does nothing is true everything is permitted mean? playing through AC1 again i only just took note of the phrase and thought it sounded cool lol but i cant really find out what it means anyonw here know?

thecreedsblood2
07-15-2009, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by ODSTVenix:
what does nothing is true everything is permitted mean? playing through AC1 again i only just took note of the phrase and thought it sounded cool lol but i cant really find out what it means anyonw here know?
i think it means is the master said that to make altair kill them when they tell the truth the master made him thank there lieing and every thing is permitted means kill them no matter what they say.

Captain Tomatoz
07-15-2009, 01:42 PM
exacty wat it says on the tin

nothing is true <--- no explaination needed

everything is permitted <--- u can do anything

ODSTVenix
07-15-2009, 01:43 PM
i think ive come to a conclusion about it

the whole satement is false, if everything is permitted but nothing is true then everything is not permitted, and i think that its saying basically that nothing is what it seems if any of that makes sense lol thoughts

EmperorxZurg
07-15-2009, 02:38 PM
that's the whole point of it, a conundrum just like wat happens wen an unstoppable force meets an immovable object, it's one of those questions with double meanings. Plus, it could also mean nothing is true as there is no way to know what is true and everything is permitted as you can do anything but you must still discipline yourself just because you can doesn't mean you do

caswallawn_2k7
07-15-2009, 03:03 PM
a conundrum just like wat happens wen an unstoppable force meets an immovable object
law's of motion says everything has a equal and oposite reaction so nothing can ever been immovable and nothing can be unstoppable http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

AetosEagle
07-15-2009, 03:03 PM
It basically means you cant trust anyone, it's all just an illusion, based on that theory, you can do anything, everything is permitted since it's an illusion, trickery played by the mind.

EmperorxZurg
07-15-2009, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by caswallawn_2k7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">a conundrum just like wat happens wen an unstoppable force meets an immovable object
law's of motion says everything has a equal and oposite reaction so nothing can ever been immovable and nothing can be unstoppable http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But if nothing is true, how do u know it just isn't another thing that is just waiting to be conquered somehow, like in the 15th century people would laugh at the thought of a microwave because scientists said it was impossible, yet now it's everyday use. It's just a matter of time

AetosEagle
07-15-2009, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by caswallawn_2k7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">a conundrum just like wat happens wen an unstoppable force meets an immovable object
law's of motion says everything has a equal and oposite reaction so nothing can ever been immovable and nothing can be unstoppable http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But if nothing is true, how do u know it just isn't another thing that is just waiting to be conquered somehow, like in the 15th century people would laugh at the thought of a microwave because scientists said it was impossible, yet now it's everyday use. It's just a matter of time </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you have an unstoppable force, you cannot have an immovable object, since that would make the "unstoppable force" stoppable. And visa versa. I think what he's trying to say is that by saying "nothing is true" followed by a statement "everything is permitted", the "nothing is true" would make "everything is permitted" a lie. It counter acts it.

caswallawn_2k7
07-15-2009, 03:39 PM
it's basicaly like me saying "everything I say is a lie"

AetosEagle
07-15-2009, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by caswallawn_2k7:
it's basicaly like me saying "everything I say is a lie"

Or even better: Trust me, I'm a liar.

MeAltairLol
07-15-2009, 04:01 PM
No, what Cas said is better.

Because if everything he says is a lie, then that statement would be a lie.
But if that statement is true, then he is lying by saying that everything he says is a lie.

A vicious circle really.

mojsarn
07-15-2009, 04:02 PM
if im not totally wrong some arabian man said those words just before he died, true or not but i think he was the leader of the "real" assassins, feel free to correct me

godsmack_darius
07-15-2009, 04:07 PM
The world is an illusion = Nothing Is True

Everything is Permitted, = Anything Goes

john63
07-15-2009, 04:50 PM
In the context of the game, I think that it has to do with conflicts between religions, and why they're ultimately futile. (Check the "What is the truth" speech that's made in the middle of memory block 5, and tell me if you agree.)

I think that the "nothing is true" part means that no single religion has an absolute moral authority, despite what Crusade-era warriors believed. No single faith has everything right, and they all have good points and bad points.

I think that the "everything is permitted" part means that no one should force anyone to believe certain doctrines or live by certain laws, since everyone's sense of morality is different. Instead, people must be free to decide their beliefs for themselves, since every religion has its own strengths and weaknesses.

True justice and true morality don't come from any group's doctrine or faith, but from the collective beliefs, decisions, and thoughts of every person.

EmperorxZurg
07-15-2009, 05:08 PM
infinity's end http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

godsmack_darius
07-15-2009, 05:19 PM
@john63

hmm...now life suddenly makes sence lol

Xanatos2007
07-15-2009, 07:43 PM
I think the quote ties in with my sig, about the books. Nothing/nobody is 100% correct, but everything is "permitted". By permitted I mean we cannot persecute somebody because of their beliefs (unless it's absurdly... absurd, like the KKK, but that was born of hate). There is a grain of truth in everybody, a piece of God. If we put our differences aside and strike a balance, we have a chance to finally create a world of peace.

But of course, it is human nature to disagree. So this will not happen for some time.

obliviondoll
07-15-2009, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by Xanatos2007:
we cannot persecute somebody because of their beliefs (unless it's absurdly... absurd, like the KKK...)
OK... Ignoring the rest of the post, because it was quite appropriate and well-written...

People don't persecute the KKK because of their beliefs. We object to their behaviour because tey persecute others.

godsmack_darius
07-15-2009, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by Xanatos2007:
I think the quote ties in with my sig, about the books. Nothing/nobody is 100% correct, but everything is "permitted". By permitted I mean we cannot persecute somebody because of their beliefs (unless it's absurdly... absurd, like the KKK, but that was born of hate). There is a grain of truth in everybody, a piece of God. If we put our differences aside and strike a balance, we have a chance to finally create a world of peace.

But of course, it is human nature to disagree. So this will not happen for some time.

I agree 99.9% with that, except the human nature part

their is no such thing as human nature, only human behavior and what we are conditioned to believe

john63
07-15-2009, 09:17 PM
lol, looks like I made a decent point, since other posts are looking similar now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But yeah, I'm pretty sure the "Nothing is true, everything is permitted" quote sums up the central conflict of the game: whether or not it is moral to restrict free will in order to reduce conflict.

I'm pretty sure Altair even says it... something like:

"Where we (Assassins) would dispel the illusion (prevent religions from claiming moral superiority, and allow people to live their own lives), they (Templars) would use it to rule (make their own "religion," with them as the gods, and force humanity to live under their control)."

This is one of the things I love most about the game. It makes you think deeply about your morals http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

...but I could be thinking to deeply about this :P

Xanatos2007
07-16-2009, 12:43 AM
Al Mualim: Before you go, I have a question for you.

Altair: What is it?

Al Mualim: What is the truth?

Altair: We place faith in ourselves. We see the world the way it truly is, and hope that one day all mankind will see as such.

Al Mualim: What is the world then?

Altair: An illusion; one which we can either submit too, as most do, or transcend.

Al Mualim: What is it to transcend?

Altair: To recognise that nothing is true and everything is permitted. That laws arise not from divinity, but reason. I understand now; our Creed does not command us to be free, it commands us to be wise.

thakao16
07-16-2009, 12:47 AM
why does my this software comes to an error when i arrived at jerusalem it always does even if i tried so many tries can you please help me with this problems

Account_Deleted
07-16-2009, 01:24 AM
takao16: use the Assassin's Creed techinical forums where you can get better help

=======================================

nothing is true everything is permitted
=
Nothing is 100% correct but also there is no rules

Grimm-X67
07-16-2009, 01:40 AM
Why can't you frikin' theorists be simple and take it all at face value? 'Nothing is true, everything is permitted' is a simple quote...essentially....Neo...you are the savior of the Matrix...the Matrix is a virtual world, concentrate and you can do anything....See how simple that is? Instead of
MeAltairLol Posted Wed July 15 2009 15:01 Hide Post
No, what Cas said is better.

Because if everything he says is a lie, then that statement would be a lie.
But if that statement is true, then he is lying by saying that everything he says is a lie.

A vicious circle really.

SharkMRX
07-16-2009, 03:53 AM
Nothing is true everything is permitted were the last words of Hassan-i Sabbah the leader of the Assassins. It means that: there is no such thing as an objective truth outside of our perception; therefore, all things are true and possible. Easier said the truth does not exist, because the World is an illusion, we see what the mind tells us to see. Like the piece of Eden it deceives or mind by making it believe, that by example Mozes parted the sea. There are no facts, a fact is something that a lot of people assume is true. The truth must be started by a person, which means that itís not objective but subjective because a person made it up. The phrase does not tell us to do what we want, thatís how AltaÔr interprets it at first. But it tells us that the truth is something that can never be objective because it must always be thought of by someone. It means that everything weíve learnt does not have to be true, and by that mean everything can be true and everything can be possible.

It does not mean that everything you say is a lie

DearDirty
07-16-2009, 03:59 AM
I've always thought that the Nothing is True Part is self explanatory whilst the Everything is Permitted part was the interesting bit.

Its what the whole game works towards. Towards wisening Altiar up until the point Everything is Permitted BUT that you should use your wisdom to decide for yourself what you find to be the truth of situation.

godsmack_darius
07-16-2009, 06:41 AM
Xanatos2007 gave a good dialogue from the Game.

Nothing is True Everything is permitted means that law doesnt come from Divinity (Religion/God) And one you understand that Nothing Is True, and Everything is Permitted, it will let us be Free and wise

NoxieDC
07-16-2009, 07:03 AM
Uh, here'a simple, alternate vague explanation: There is no "God".

There is no supreme, objective being. There is no moraly supreme good or evil because we all have our reasons, all of which, under context, make sense. The only way that a truth can be absolute is when it reaches the level of "fact", but a lot of our actions (and their respective justifications) are debatable, rendergin the idea impossible.

Human society is constantly divided (theist-atheist, criminal-law enforcer, politician-voter). We are biased. For an individual nothing is true, everything is permited.

godsmack_darius
07-16-2009, 07:14 AM
Lol, I wonder how Cotholics from the Vatican are going to be looking for YOU now,you will end up like the Illuminati, BRANDED BURNED ON THE CROSS, :P


But get that to, except It is depending on what you believe, believing is one thing, but blinded by faith is too much

For example, Altair, he doesnt concider himself religious but more a spiritual man, But he isnt blinded by it

NoxieDC
07-16-2009, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by godsmack_darius:
Lol, I wonder how Cotholics from the Vatican are going to be looking for YOU now,you will end up like the Illuminati, BRANDED BURNED ON THE CROSS, :P
If that ever happens, there will be no reason to keep on fighting.

godsmack_darius
07-16-2009, 08:02 AM
Speaking fo Vatican, do you think we will able to go their in AC2?

NoxieDC
07-16-2009, 08:12 AM
The Vatican is in Rome. Rome has beenunoficially confirmed. Leads me to believe that yes.

(In the "reveal" trailer, they showed 3 crests, each one relating to one of the 3 cities; one was the Vatican)

Danvish
07-16-2009, 09:45 AM
Am not an expert in Chrstianity or something, but can't that point to Tuscany as the 3rd city?
I don't think Rome will be in the game, or at least not as just another city... since I've read several times they made Venice, Firenze, Tuscany and The Wetland, who's supposed to have another small city in it (obviously not Rome).
So I guess we won't be able to assassinate the Pope this time.

Xanatos2007
07-16-2009, 10:32 AM
Another quote which ties into this one that I can't be bothered to elaborate on because I'm tired...

"There is a difference Altair between what we are told to be true and what we see to be true. Most men do not bother to make the distinction, it is simpler that way." (But as an assassin, it is your nature to notice, to question)

Danvish
07-16-2009, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Xanatos2007:
Another quote which ties into this one that I can't be bothered to elaborate on because I'm tired...

"There is a difference Altair between what we are told to be true and what we see to be true. Most men do not bother to make the distinction, it is simpler that way." (But as an assassin, it is your nature to notice, to question)

Agreed, and since noone can actually KNOW the truth, everything is premitted.

DeluvianKing
07-17-2009, 06:58 AM
What I took it to mean is this:

When they say "Nothing is true; everything is permitted", what they mean is you only see what they ('They' meaning the templars, or any other group controlling society from the shadows, perhaps even the government) want you to see. We can never see the truth because they keep a veil over our eyes and only tell us what they want us to know.

Nothing is true; everything is permitted.

Can you see through the deception? ^_~

Danvish
07-17-2009, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by DeluvianKing:
What I took it to mean is this:

When they say "Nothing is true; everything is permitted", what they mean is you only see what they ('They' meaning the templars, or any other group controlling society from the shadows, perhaps even the government) want you to see. We can never see the truth because they keep a veil over our eyes and only tell us what they want us to know.

Nothing is true; everything is permitted.

Can you see through the deception? ^_~

But the guys here that say "nothing is true.." it's the assassins. So where the Templars come in in the equasion?