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blacknight12345
05-01-2006, 03:12 PM
around and in which ports are there more military traffic and merchant traffic. i have been sailing around ports and haven't found a steady stream of activity moving in and out. only isolated ships maybe one or two C2/C3 together. is it really true that their are many tankers operating in the gulf of mexico? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Bucketlung
05-01-2006, 07:03 PM
Same with me. Every time I go to a port it is like the black plague has cleared the village.

I checked out the EB, EC, and ED areas of the map and there was good tanker traffic but I went in August of 42 or 43 and the air cover was a bit extreme. In fact it was so unpleasant I got out of there and haven't returned.

wm4668
10-01-2006, 10:45 AM
Loch Ewe is good for moored military and merchants, I've taken out 2 Nelsons and 2 Fiji's with numerous tankers and merchants on 2 separate visits, and for those with balls of steel there's always Scapa Flow......Also Tobruk and Tripoli both good for military and merchant. Merthyr is quite well defended with some high-tonnage merchants moored. I should add, I am running Grey Wolves which does make most ports more interesting.

hward1983
10-01-2006, 02:50 PM
I've had good luck around Dover in 1940, but I would avoid it during 1941. I had a lot escorts and had to perform many evasive manevuers to avoid being depth charged. Although most of the ships in the port are merchant. Usually one escort sits off to the right as you are sitting in the entrance of the port. I've also gone into loch ewe, but I didn't see the activity of military ships others have talked about. I'm really looking forward to sinking a battleship for a change instead of merchants and escorts. Also, if you are looking for a nest of warships. Between Scapa Flow and mainland Great Britain is a good spot, but be careful if you don't sink the escort first off, its calls for its buddies and then you'll have about 5 escorts to evade.


Good Hunting!!!

Ratatosk79
10-01-2006, 03:11 PM
I was wondering how often uboats whent in to enemy harbours to find their prey. Seems a little risky. Was this a strategy from BDU or was it just the initiative from some crazy kaleun if it happend?

Bootsmann0815
10-01-2006, 03:55 PM
Raiding ports by full-sized sub was EXTRREMELY rare. Indeed, apart from Prien's famous raid on Scapa in the third week of the war, I can't think of even a single example. Harbour raids were usually (still not many examples) done by the sub disembarking a suitably equipped landing party with orders to sabotage, or by mini-sub - the Italians were most successful in this respect, with famous raids on Valetta and Alexandria (and less successfully, Toulon after the Allied landing in Southern France).
Much more common were the mining of harbour entrances (the sub got credit for the kill if a sinking could be attributed to a minefield sown by the sub) and waiting in ambush in the approaches to the port - more or less close as the situation allowed.

In SH3 it's a different story; the defences are usually not as efficient as they were in the actual events (though often still formidable) and I understand many players do it as a "dare" and in the hope of getting tonnage, including rare large warships.
The likelihood of success almost entirely depends on the version / supermod of the game used (stock SH3 is pretty poor in this respect), and the year.

AVGWarhawk
10-01-2006, 06:35 PM
Yes, Prien made it into Scapa flow at night and on the surface. The Japanese attempted with midget subs at Pearl Harbor. Three sunk and one was beached. Not much more was done in harbors due to mines and sub nets. Not to mention the warships. Speaking of which, I was bored and went into a port. Next thing I know my U-boat is completely out of the water on a sub net in full view of the warships....

schwarze_Katze
10-02-2006, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by Ratatosk79:
I was wondering how often uboats whent in to enemy harbours to find their prey. Seems a little risky. Was this a strategy from BDU or was it just the initiative from some crazy kaleun if it happend?

Certainly not a consistent "strategy" of BDU. The only example from the German perspective I could find relatively quickly on the net of any strategy to do this was the Scapa Flow raid.

13/14 October 1939: U-47, Gunther Prien, Scapa Flow. Night-time penetration. Royal Oak sunk. Pentration of Scapa Flow and escape conducted surfaced. Not sure about the attack itself. Absolutely spectacular propaganda victory for the Reich.

Any other attacks in Allied harbors by the German U-boat force, I would imagine were due to opportunistic and daring/"crazy" Kaleuns.

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After digging around on the net for a while, I've come up with the following daring/nutty harbor penetrations of WW II.


7 DEC 1941: 5 Ko-hyoteki-class Japanese midget subs attempted to penetrate Pearl Harbor in the early morning. 1 succeeded and fired at the USS Curtiss and USS Monaghan. 1 never entered the harbor, but took shots at the USS St. Louis as she exited the harbor. 1 was definitely sunk by the USS Ward with torps still aboard while trying to enter the harbor. 1 was definitely captured with torpedoes still aboard. Wikipedia reports that 3 midget subs were found with torpedoes aboard, the latest in 2002 (the one sunk by the Ward). There is an analysis done by the U.S. Naval Institue claiming that a second midget sub succeeded in actually penetrating the harbor and torpedoed the USS West Virginia. This is disputed since 5 were known to be used and munitions from all 5 are accounted for (4 torps from the two that are known to have fired at particular ships and 6 from the sunk/captured boats).

29 May 1942: 3 Japanese Midget submarines attack Sydney Harbor. 1 was destroyed by its crew when it got entangled in an anti-sub net. 1 was located and fired upon by the USS Chicago with no apparent effect. In return, it fired its torpedoes at the Chicago but missed. 1 torp ran aground on Garden Island with no detonation. The second torp also hit bottom, but exploded beneath HMAS Kuttabul, killing 21 sailors. This submarine escaped. The last was depth charged at the harbor entrance, recovered and proceeded into the harbor. Once inside, it was detected and depth charged again. It was sunk by ships of the RAN.

24 JAN 1943: USS Wahoo (SS-238), Dudley "Mush" Morton, 3rd war patrol, Wewak Harbor, New Guinea. Early morning penetration. Harusame (destroyer) sunk with the first-ever US Navy "down the throat" shot after 5 misses due to TMA errors.

22 SEP 1943: 3 British midget submarines slip into Kafjord, Norway. Their mission: plant mines under the Tirpitz. All 3 subs are lost, but cause enough damage to the Tirpitz to put her out of action for 6 months.

22/23 JAN 1945: USS Barb (SS-220), Eugene Fluckey, 11th war patrol, Namkwan Harbor (spelling disputed as also possibly Namkwang or Mamkwan), China. Night-time penetration . Barb entered the harbor and launched attacks against a 30-ship anchorage with all remaining bow torpedoes and 1 stern salvo and ultimately escaped; all of this conducted on the surface. Taikyo Maru (apparently an ammunition ship) sunk. During her final patrol starting in June, 1945; Barb also deployed the only "combat troops" to the Japanese home islands by landing a commando team made up of volunteers from the ship's crew (one from each division) to blow up a 16-car railroad train and the track. She also launched rockets against and shelled 5 Japanese towns during her final patrol.

This list is in no way meant to be a full documentation nor completely accurate account of the sometimes incomprehensible heroics displayed by submariners on both sides in the war. It's simply a list that took a minor amount of digging to compile. I can't say if there were any other harbor penetrations done by either side in the war since I don't have years to dig through all the WW II history that's out there. It's sufficient to say that these attacks did happen; and while rare, they reflect great credit upon the bravery of the warriors on both sides of the struggle.

AVGWarhawk
10-02-2006, 10:14 AM
I would also suspect there a lot of true stories of harbor raids that went down with the crews that were and still are MIA. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Eternal patrol as it were.

provisotech
10-11-2006, 04:08 PM
Hello. This is my first post.

It's winter of 1942
I've sneaked into Scapa FLow and it's absolute whost town! So dissapointed as I'm still unsure how I'll get out of there. I came in via the NW entrance and cut to the right to avoid a speedboat - pretty scary. Then stumbled upon some search lights, I assume more searchlights on the SE exit. My game is totally stock. Next time I play a tour I'll install GW and manage my crew differently. I have destroyed about 7 planes.