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View Full Version : Helicopters in IL2??? Yes, it ís possible!



Uufflakke
06-21-2010, 03:21 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

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triad773
06-21-2010, 04:22 PM
On the horizon (no DOUBT!)

GOOD MORNING, VIETNAM! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Thanks for posting!

AndyJWest
06-21-2010, 04:25 PM
Yes, I've been watching this development at the SAS site (sorry, can't give links http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). It seems they are serious about getting the flight modelling right too - not just a 'Lerche' with new 3-d models, but done properly from scratch. Time will tell just how good they are, but they look like being fun, anyway. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

No indication as to when they'll be released - but then with mods there never is. We'll just have to sit around whistling the tune from MASH, or run around in the garden going 'wokka wokka wokka'. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Or maybe I should reinstall FSX and try to get the hang of the choppers there - I could do everything right except landing the b*****s... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Kettenhunde
06-21-2010, 05:48 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...used_in_World_War_II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_helicopters_used_in_World_War_II)

Choctaw111
06-21-2010, 06:12 PM
Hooray, this is the first I have been able to sign in for a week.

I must admit that I was very surprised to see these helicopters.
I haven't been keeping up with what is going on over at SAS.
Very nice work so far.

danjama
06-21-2010, 07:57 PM
Who's playing that cover of "Angel"?

ElAurens
06-21-2010, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by triad773:
On the horizon (no DOUBT!)

GOOD MORNING, VIETNAM! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Thanks for posting!

I'd say you are 10 to 15 years late...

More like cannon fodder for a Mig 15 or Yak 9U.

And useless in any situation I can think of in IL2. No artillery to spot for, no way to rescue a downed pilot, etc...

Like the mod Stinson L5, it will be fun to try once or twice (I actually got a maneuver kill against an A6M3 in the Sentinel online...), but then it will serve no useful purpose.

Meh.

Why not a real cockpit for the Emily?

Or a Ki44?

Or a P40N?

Or anything we can really use?


Cool model though.

WTE_Galway
06-21-2010, 08:39 PM
If God had meant man to hover we would have been born with tail rotors http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

AndyJWest
06-21-2010, 08:43 PM
Why not a real cockpit for the Emily?

Or a Ki44?

Or a P40N?

Or anything we can really use?

Because the modders find this more interesting than churning out yet another WW II plane? We're all doing this for fun, remember. I think it may be a mistake to assume that if they weren't working on this, they'd necessarily be working on something else, either.

And who knows, maybe there will be ways to 'rescue downed pilots' eventually. I can see a promising coop situation: the chopper has so many minutes to land at a given spot, while his teammates prevent him being shot down...

And there may be helicopter gunships ahead too, for the ground-pounders. I doubt that IL-2 will ever do things as well as a dedicated helicopter sim, but why not see how it goes?

jarink
06-21-2010, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why not a real cockpit for the Emily?

Or a Ki44?

Or a P40N?

Or anything we can really use?

Because the modders find this more interesting than churning out yet another WW II plane? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the middle helo is a Focke-Achgelis Fa 223, which saw limited service during WWII.

Still the only mod plane I'm really awaiting is Monguse's B-24D.

R_Target
06-21-2010, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
Why not a real cockpit for the Emily?

Or a Ki44?

Or a P40N?

Or anything we can really use?

Amen to that. Ki-45 is the dream.

Ba5tard5word
06-22-2010, 10:13 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

AllorNothing117
06-22-2010, 10:43 AM
Allornothing117 "likes" this (Y)

Romanator21
06-22-2010, 10:48 AM
The models look great, but I doubt that they are going to behave very well at all - they will have to be extremely simplified to work in Il-2 at all.


Or maybe I should reinstall FSX and try to get the hang of the choppers there - I could do everything right except landing the b*****s... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

As a guy who has flown a light helicopter (once) I can assure you that it is NOT easy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif During hover practice I was swinging left and right like a pendulum and being tossed around by the wind. I couldn't keep it within 3 feet of a fixed point. The controls were very sensitive but reaction from an input was slow, which led to a lot of over-correction and PIO. But the instructor said I was doing better than all his other students. Go figure.

My first flight http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...v2aQ&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5qVUdsv2aQ&feature=related)

mortoma
06-22-2010, 11:37 AM
What about that tail rotor not spinning? Worrying about a non-rotating tail rotor ain't exactly being nit-picky either, folks. I think they not only need to get it spinning but also not just get it spinning for looks. But get it to do it's real life torque/anti-torque function. Until then, I'll not be in the least interested.

mortoma
06-22-2010, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why not a real cockpit for the Emily?

Or a Ki44?

Or a P40N?

Or anything we can really use?

Because the modders find this more interesting than churning out yet another WW II plane? We're all doing this for fun, remember. I think it may be a mistake to assume that if they weren't working on this, they'd necessarily be working on something else, either.

And who knows, maybe there will be ways to 'rescue downed pilots' eventually. I can see a promising coop situation: the chopper has so many minutes to land at a given spot, while his teammates prevent him being shot down...

And there may be helicopter gunships ahead too, for the ground-pounders. I doubt that IL-2 will ever do things as well as a dedicated helicopter sim, but why not see how it goes? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Only problem is that choppers were not used much in W.W.II to do much of anything.
The USA did fly just a few for a little while in the Pacific theater right near the end of the war. But that's about it. There were quite a few autogyros flown but are they true helicopters? The only true choppers were flown by the USA as far as I know.

AndyJWest
06-22-2010, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
What about that tail rotor not spinning? Worrying about a non-rotating tail rotor ain't exactly being nit-picky either, folks. I think they not only need to get it spinning but also not just get it spinning for looks. But get it to do it's real life torque/anti-torque function. Until then, I'll not be in the least interested.

The choppers are WIP, Mortoma. I think from the videos it is apparent that the torque/yaw function of the tail rotor is modelled in the FM, and it just hasn't been modelled visually yet. Until we can fly these ourselves, or preferably see what a real chopper pilot makes of them, I'd say we should reserve judgement.

And yes, there were few operational helicopters in WW II. The modders have been working on Korean war aircraft and maps for some time though.

Romanator21
06-22-2010, 12:45 PM
I think the Germans were pioneering helicopters in WWII for liaison and observation. Most designs featured two rotors.

Flettner Fl-282 'Kolibri':
https://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Flettner-282/IMAGES/Flettner-drawing.jpg

https://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Flettner-282/IMAGES/Flettner-FL-282-Title.jpg

https://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Flettner-282/IMAGES/flettner-282-bw.jpg


The first Fl 282 flew towards the end of 1941. The Fl-282 was more highly developed and flew more hours than any other German helicopter, and very extensive tests and measurements were made of all flight aspects. Most of this test work was done by Flettner's chief pilot, Hans E. Fuisting, who also undertook blind flying and trained many of the 50 pilots who learned to fly the Fl-282.

The Fl 282 served in the Baltic, North Aegean, and Mediterranean Seas. Plans to build thousands of Kolibris were abandoned after the Flettner factories were bombed by the Allies. Only three of these helicopters survived the war; the rest were destroyed to prevent capture. Two of the survivors went to the United States and Britain, the third to the Soviet Union.

WTE_Galway
06-22-2010, 08:04 PM
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AndyJWest
06-22-2010, 08:14 PM
A nice video, WTE_G. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I like the 'arrestor mechanism' used to bring the chopper down on deck. A sailor grabs it, and pulls it down!

I do wonder why the Germans went for the complex interlocked counter-rotating rotors layout though. I'd have though coaxial counter-rotating blades were mechanically simpler, and perhaps safer too. Then again, the 'hang a rotor sideways out the back, that'll stop the b****r turning' approach later used seems to have worked well enough.

There is a theory that helicopters don't fly by aerodynamic forces at all. They are so ugly that the Earth repels them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

orville07
06-22-2010, 08:54 PM
Hehehe, I like what James May (of 'Top Gear', a qualified pilot too) said about them. 'Aeroplanes fly by working in harmony with the laws of physics. Helicopters bludgeon them into submission". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Its interesting what they are doing, but tbh I can't see the FM's being particularly good. Haven't bothered with mods for eons....Liked them at first and there were some very good ones, then things rather predictably got very silly. How many different mod packs are there now? Farcical.

Some very talented people amongst them though, I heard that 'Freddy' got hired by Oleg, not sure if its true or not though. Wouldn't surprise me, his cockpits were/are excellent.

Check out DCS Black Shark if your a rotor head, its top notch.

AndyJWest
06-22-2010, 09:31 PM
How many different mod packs are there now?
Currently? In general use? Two. One of which incorporates the other. Yes there are still problems, but I'd say they are getting there.

In any case, mods are optional, though when they get things right, they may no longer be mods - see Zuti's MDF server, coming soon to a patch near you...

I think past IL-2 history has generated a lot of heat and emotion, that tends to result in the reaction to an innovation being based more on who is responsible for it than what it consists of. I've been guilty of this myself on occasion, but it isn't a sensible attitude. Nobody is being forced to fly helicopters. When they are released, I expect I'll give them a go. If I like them, I'll fly them some more. If nobody likes them, I'd expect the modders to go back to doing something else, but at the end of the day, it's their choice. When you bought the IL-2 DVD/download you paid for the stuff on the disc. Anything else is a bonus.

WTE_Galway
06-22-2010, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by orville07:
Haven't bothered with mods for eons....Liked them at first and there were some very good ones, then things rather predictably got very silly.


Never got quite as silly as "user mods" did with MSFS http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


http://www.flightsim.com/zview.php?cm=view&fn=/home/flight/files/78/stn2004.zip&an=stn2004/documents/stn2004%20previews.jpg&idx=17

triad773
06-23-2010, 11:23 AM
Ha! Had you seen Jetman??


No contest in a duel with Broom Man http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Jetman has twin MGs IIRC http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

p-11.cAce
06-23-2010, 11:59 AM
Like all mods some are better than others http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://simflight.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/20090803_lotusl39_05-550x309.jpg

Waldo.Pepper
06-23-2010, 04:28 PM
Like all mods some are better than others

Which hits the nail on the head. Those that are worse ruined the game for me.

wayno7777
06-23-2010, 09:13 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Stuff/photo.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/reitsch_2_350.jpg

Tooz_69GIAP
06-24-2010, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by wayno7777:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Stuff/photo.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPIO86jTrQQ

Rjel
06-24-2010, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Which hits the nail on the head. Those that are worse ruined the game for me.

B.S. typical knee jerk reaction. Not liking the mods because of a few bad ones is laughable, but implying it ruined your IL-2 experience is simply ridiculous.

wayno7777
06-24-2010, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPIO86jTrQQ



LOL!!!

Waldo.Pepper
06-24-2010, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by Rjel:
"Not liking the mods because of a few bad ones is laughable."

Why, is it because you think the good out weights the bad? Well that's fine and you are entitled to your opinion. Why are you trying to deny me my opinion, and calling my opinion ridiculous?

My opinion is that the bad outweighs the good.

For me, the accuracy of Il-2. The fidelity that the game brought to the table was the major appeal of the game to me. The care that it was crafted with by Oleg et al, was the attraction. It was GOLDEN compared to what the competition (Microsoft/Warbirds etc) was offering at the time. The mods took this away from the game for me.

When I cannot be assured of the accuracy of the game something greater than a few planes or other refinements (which were added by the modding community) was lost.

I think that those of us who have been with the game for nearly a decade now remember patch fever, and how we would look forward to new developments and aircraft. Me-163, then the 109K, then the La-7 and the Mosquito. We all would taunt each other with tales of "Your gonna get when the xyz plane becomes flyable." And then we would get the plane, and everybody would fly the plane madly for a few weeks or months. Then everything would calm down again until the next patch.

What this process made some of us realize was that the addition of a few planes while nice, was not the be all and end all.

I like, a great deal some of what has been added by the modding community. But overall what mattered to me was the overall quality of the game. And this is now gone.


Originally posted by Rjel:
"implying it ruined your IL-2 experience is simply ridiculous."

I am not implying anything. I am saying it. Mods RUINED Il-2 for me. Just as they did the CFS series for me. Time cannot be turned back , and no Genie can be put back into the bottle. But I mourn the loss of pre modded Il-2.

You are entitled to your opinion Rjel. Please don't try to deny or belittle mine without foundation.

WTE_Galway
06-24-2010, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:

I think that those of us who have been with the game for nearly a decade now remember patch fever, and how we would look forward to new developments and aircraft. Me-163, then the 109K, then the La-7 and the Mosquito. We all would taunt each other with tales of "Your gonna get when the xyz plane becomes flyable." And then we would get the plane, and everybody would fly the plane madly for a few weeks or months. Then everything would calm down again until the next patch.


LA7 ?? I remember when the la5fn was a super plane :P

You can still choose to play Il2 without mods. I have never installed a single mod and never will.

The only thing possibly lost was interesting online play but to be honest I quit online play well before the mods as the airquake jocks were getting to annoying.

Urufu_Shinjiro
06-25-2010, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rjel:
"Not liking the mods because of a few bad ones is laughable."

Why, is it because you think the good out weights the bad? Well that's fine and you are entitled to your opinion. Why are you trying to deny me my opinion, and calling my opinion ridiculous?

My opinion is that the bad outweighs the good.

For me, the accuracy of Il-2. The fidelity that the game brought to the table was the major appeal of the game to me. The care that it was crafted with by Oleg et al, was the attraction. It was GOLDEN compared to what the competition (Microsoft/Warbirds etc) was offering at the time. The mods took this away from the game for me.

When I cannot be assured of the accuracy of the game something greater than a few planes or other refinements (which were added by the modding community) was lost.

I think that those of us who have been with the game for nearly a decade now remember patch fever, and how we would look forward to new developments and aircraft. Me-163, then the 109K, then the La-7 and the Mosquito. We all would taunt each other with tales of "Your gonna get when the xyz plane becomes flyable." And then we would get the plane, and everybody would fly the plane madly for a few weeks or months. Then everything would calm down again until the next patch.

What this process made some of us realize was that the addition of a few planes while nice, was not the be all and end all.

I like, a great deal some of what has been added by the modding community. But overall what mattered to me was the overall quality of the game. And this is now gone.


Originally posted by Rjel:
"implying it ruined your IL-2 experience is simply ridiculous."

I am not implying anything. I am saying it. Mods RUINED Il-2 for me. Just as they did the CFS series for me. Time cannot be turned back , and no Genie can be put back into the bottle. But I mourn the loss of pre modded Il-2.

You are entitled to your opinion Rjel. Please don't try to deny or belittle mine without foundation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. You are indeed entitled to your opinion but I would examine that opinion a little closer. You've put Il2 up on a pedestal, you've idealized it into something it's not. Il2 is far above and beyond the competition, but it's still chock full of glaring inaccuracies, bugs, and outright mistakes. I would say that stock Il2 has the same percentage of mistakes/inaccuracies as UP2.01 modded Il2. I never understood why some people are so hung up an bad mods, if you don't like a mod, then don't bloody install that mod, no one has a gun to your head saying you have to run crappy mods. To go so far as to say mods ruined il2 for you, well then I would say you take things WAY too seriously.


Now I hope that came off like I intended, to disagree but respectfully and without insult. I'll allow this pro/con mod debate to continue so long as it stays civil and respectful. I thank you all for your cooperation on this.

Erkki_M
06-25-2010, 07:35 AM
Waldo, Galway. There are still a lot of 4.09 stock CRT2 servers. There are a lot of mod servers, but a good majority of those IL2 servers that have any players, are either 4.09 stock, or allow mods but use 4.09 planes, objects, and maps. All online wars, except afaik the now in betatest il2war II are stock game, as well. The stock game, which I too prefer(never played the game for graphics, which arent always any better in mods, or the sheer amount of stuff that can be flown or blown apart).

Another thing I dont really like with the mods, is that even with the great mod packs, there is no complete list of changes and add-ons, in old or new stuff. Let alone any references or sources by which they were modeled, and all that might change from mod pack version to another, depending on who managed to whine the best.

I would love the clouds and some maps from the mod packs, but as a whole, I prefer the stock game.

p-11.cAce
06-25-2010, 08:24 AM
Yeah I'm a big fan of the unmodded game as well. I dabbled a bit with the mods - mainly to fly the Storch and the Ju-52 - but have not started my modded install in months.

Waldo.Pepper
06-25-2010, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
I would say you take things WAY too seriously.

I am not so thin skinned to take offense, I kind of figured someone would say that I am too serious. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So at the risk of further ruffling the feathers of the thin skinned...

Do you think that those members who passionately and correctly over the years argued to ...

Clean the canopy on the Hellcat -
Improve the accuracy of the roll rate of the P-47 -
Agitate for changing the way wing mounted fifty cals fire -

and all the other members who b1tched and b1tched and b1tched to fix things and improve aspects of the game took things (the game) way too seriously as well?

I can't read your mind obviously, but I am willing to wager that you will say that, No they did not take things too seriously.

Well the introduction of mods to the game introduced errors that are like mountains compared to these in built errors I just mentioned.


Now for all those well meaning individuals who suggest to me that just don't install such and such mod. You are missing the point. As clear as I can be now ... here is the point.

As scrupulously honest as the modding community may well be, the introduction of mods means that I can no longer trust the game to be accurate. The introduction of Mods also infected the game with doubt. Doubt which killed the fidelity of the game.

How can I be sure that a modder did not monkey around with a stock aircraft, and push its capabilities beyond accuracy? I have doubt. The doubt killed it for me.

Finally to be abundantly clear, I do think that the overwhelming majority of modders are HONEST, and do their VERY BEST, to be as accurate as possible. And that they love the game with every cell in their body, just as I do. But, (there is always a but isn't there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) But also over the life of Il-2 we are all aware that some individuals care to win enough to think of stupid little things that they can do to cheat. Like hammering the screen shot key, and other far more sophisticated methods that I am loath to go into.

Surely such people are in the modding group/community as well. If there are corrupt politicians and crooked cops in the world nobody here is going to convince me that the modders are altruistic faultless angels who are above such things.

This is why I cannot trust the game. Because people are not wholly trustworthy. Now for those of you who may and have said. "Well just play offline then. That's what I do."

Good Idea! I am actually clever enough to think of that for myself. (Shocking init?) But isn't it sad that online has been robbed from players who think as I do. That is why I mourn for pre- modded Il-2.

The accuracy and fidelity of the game made it unique. Il-2 post mod is reduced to CFS in my opinion. Modded Il-2 is an alsoran now.

I am happy for all of you who dig the mods. I really am. Glad that Swordfish and Fulmar and clouds and improved AI - etc etc etc. But they are not for me for all the above reasons, and also know that they come at a price. And the price is division of opinion.

Rjel
06-25-2010, 04:31 PM
I'm not belittling your opinion about the mods, what I'm questioning is yours and others over reaction to them. I can't buy your argument about feeling that they have ruined your game. If I am as passionate about something as you claim to have been about IL-2, nobody will dissuade me from enjoying whatever the endeavor may be. Honestly, if the stock game was as important to you as you said, how can the knowledge that it has been modded ruin it for you? On your hard drive, it is still the same game that it was before. There are many others in this thread who feel as you do so there must be plenty of online fliers who still play the original version of IL-2 as was mentioned in another post. So it must be something else.

I've long felt in this "community" that there are some who can't accept change and aren't comfortable with others who can. I think it's a me too feeling. Everything is cool as long as we are all marching to the same beat but when it changes some feel left out. I don't know you and am not implying you think that way but it's the same reaction many here had when the mods first came out. There were a great many well known posters who claimed they were never going to use them. As I recall there were a lot of accusations of criminal intent by many who dared even admit they had used them. Of course, we now know many of those same posters who were so adamant in their opposition do use those very mods. This game has grown and changed, your vision of it is different than mine. A lot of us have been around since the beginning and watched IL-2 evolve, both officially and through the mods. I don't look at it with rose colored glasses and see perfection in any of its incarnations.

Urufu_Shinjiro
06-25-2010, 04:56 PM
Stock 4.09 server with CRT=2 means all players are running stock Il2, there are several such servers, fly with them. I mean, I see what you're saying about online integrity (though there has NEVER been a cheat free online, only the illusion of such) but why let the fact that servers with mods are not to your security standards stop you from flying non mod servers when CRT=2 does a pretty good job of keeping the mods out and certainly keeps out any mods that affect performance? It's like saying you love your 1967 Jaguar but when Ford bought the company it ruined it for you so you sold you 1967...

Please don't think I'm arguing with you, your opinion about mods is as valid as mine and I don't seek to change your thought on mods, I'm just trying to understand why you do not see stock 4.09 CRT=2 servers as a perfectly viable option.

triad773
06-25-2010, 05:45 PM
How about accepting that there is going to be a spectrum of opinion in any given community?

Within any given organized religion (or other organizations,) there are those who tend toward the purist route, then on the other end, anything that tickles your fancy? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

I wasn't around for CFS mods, but understand some are disturbed by seeing similar dynamics at work here.

1. Depends on your likes
2. Depends on your, um tolerance (for lack of a better description)

I have the tastes that accommodate the playful and historical. While I shun the Lerch, I enjoy Jetman: Jetman has no pre-supposed stats, couched in what otherwise is a nice combat flight sim- it's just for fun. I use the mods I like, while I don't use the ones that I don't- and I don't shun those who like those anyway- what purpose would it serve? Yes Waldo, I am one of those who thinks that there is more good then bad out there. But then isn't this an adventure too? a couple of years ago the sound barrier was undoable in IL-2- now look at some of the WIPs. Last year helos were impossible, but now they are in development. I am enjoying the journey while simply ignoring the ones I don't care for.

Certainly we all have our opinions, and it is fair to say when you don't like something. Let's just not do it at the detriment of others' enjoyment.

Cheers

Triad

ElAurens
06-25-2010, 05:45 PM
SOW, bring it.

It will be so nice to have the online "community" on the same page again.

This is my biggest dislike of the mods, a fractured online environment.

It was a lot easier to find a good, as well as fun, sever in the old days. Now it's work.

Waldo.Pepper
06-25-2010, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by Rjel:
"I'm not belittling your opinion about the mods..."

Well that's good. For a minute there I though that describing my opinions/views ridiculous, an then saying that
I am 'overreacting' and that you 'can't buy' (as in 'do not believe' or 'cannot believe' or are 'incredulous') - that I have the opinions that I do hold, was belittling. What a relief. Thanks for clearing that up! All with the limited interaction/history that we have together. Amazing! And you never did get me on the couch or say "Tell me about your mother." http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif But don't worry mate. I'm good. I promise. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FYI when the very first mods leaked from the Russian community into the broader community. I had an "in" through a friend. I was an early adopter. It was naughty, forbidden - fun to be so wanton. Liberating even to throw off the shackles of the oppressive Oleg. Finally we could fix things!

I installed the first mod eagerly. Played around with it some. And made a decision. It sucked.

I have since kept up and tried the other mods. Believing that they might get better. They just don't do it for me. The quality is not up to my standards. They harm the game. They reduce the game to CFS. What about that opinion of mine do you not get? Maybe I can help with a thought experiment.

Imagine the Mona Lisa for a minute. Here maybe this will help.

http://www.greetings.ca/Mona%20Lisa.jpg

Nice huh? She is definitely NOT my type. But nice. I bet the frame is sweet too. But wait a minute. Maybe we can 'improve' her a little bit. Maybe if EVERYONE could contribute (just a little - bit mind you.) Then maybe she'd be even better.

So how's this?

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_CF7o3xti...mal_Mona_Lisa_62.jpg (http://lh6.ggpht.com/_CF7o3xtiW6g/Spw39sL***I/AAAAAAAAE-c/P0oOixjD23U/normal_Mona_Lisa_62.jpg)

Hubba Hubba! No really! She is mucho more my type. But it is NOT the Mona Lisa anymore. Same thing with Il-2.

I am not left behind. I have a modded install on my drive (several actually) right now few have access to. (NO you cannot have it, or indeed know anything about it. I made a commitment, I signed an agreement, to not be a sharing type.)

I CHOOSE to value what was lost MORE that modders do. It is as simple as that.

I can play the original if I want. Even online. However, I now have suspicions that someone could have modded it so subtly, so craftily, that no one could detect it. After all being bad feels pretty good, sometimes! I cannot be sure that even with an unmodded server that the game remains genuine. That surety, that certainty was taken from the game, for me.

And finally ...


Originally posted by Rjel:
I don't look at it with rose colored glasses and see perfection in any of its incarnations.

Nor do I uhm -- "look at it with rose colored glasses and see perfection in any of its incarnations."
[You are doing it again. Ascribing an opinion to me that I do not hold with this insinuation of yours.]

I mourn for the continuity that was lost. Can you not understand that?

I don't know how I can express my opinion any more clearly than this. I'm done explaining myself. Email me if anyone wants more opinion. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rjel
06-25-2010, 11:02 PM
Nope, I'm good. No need to add me to your email. Your position is crystal clear now. Nothing like comparing centuries old fine art with a modded video game to make your point. It was so obvious how could I have missed it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

p-11.cAce
06-26-2010, 07:26 PM
I'm with Waldo 100%. Very well said http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Waldo.Pepper
06-26-2010, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Rjel:
It was so obvious how could I have missed it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Funny guy! I am starting to like you plenty!

Il-2 had a good run, but it could not remain unmoded forever as all games which are popular enough to have a huge base get modded over time. Oleg has plans for SOW BOB that are clever enough to recognize this fact, and accommodate the unholy urges of modders right out of the box. This is terribly clever, I think. As I understand his plans he is setting up a regime for modding, some rules. He is trying to regulate the process and contain the excesses of the more exuberant among us. A good idea, well worthy of being attempted, which may or may not pan out.

Boosher
06-27-2010, 04:07 AM
M*A*S*H here we come!

Rjel
06-27-2010, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Il-2 had a good run, but it could not remain unmoded forever as all games which are popular enough to have a huge base get modded over time. Oleg has plans for SOW BOB that are clever enough to recognize this fact...

I think that we can agree on that. Oleg appears to be a savvy enough business man to recognize the fact that, if nothing else, the mods have helped keep IL-2 fresh in the minds of simmers while waiting for his BoB. Had he really wanted the mods to wither and die, he has the respect of enough of the IL-2 world that he could have made it impossible to talk about them here or on SimHQ and other well known sites. He might not like them but I think he sees how they have extended the life of his sim.

p-11.cAce
06-27-2010, 08:28 AM
I think "extending the life of his sim" is giving far to much credit to the mod community. The primary fact that is extending the life of IL2 is a lack of competition. Sure you can buy the WoP aircraft for FSX (I love the emil natch) but that's only good for flying around. RoF is awesome and a ton of fun but I'm not primarily interested in WWI so I don't go to it very often. Blackshark and Flaming Cliffs 2 are great sims - the DCS world imho is better than FSX and it supports combat. But like RoF but on the other end of the scale I'm not a huge fan of modern air combat. Ground pounding with the Su-25 is a blast though.

So what is a WWII fan left with? Really just IL2 - the same as it has been for a decade.

triad773
06-27-2010, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
The primary fact that is extending the life of IL2 is a lack of competition. . . .
So what is a WWII fan left with? Really just IL2 - the same as it has been for a decade.

I agree with that. Though were it not for mods, I'd be into racing sims more fully (since there is no shortage of offerings in that genre) but having said that, the history of racing is just not as compelling for me as the history of aviation.

Gammelpreusse
06-28-2010, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
I think "extending the life of his sim" is giving far to much credit to the mod community. The primary fact that is extending the life of IL2 is a lack of competition. Sure you can buy the WoP aircraft for FSX (I love the emil natch) but that's only good for flying around. RoF is awesome and a ton of fun but I'm not primarily interested in WWI so I don't go to it very often. Blackshark and Flaming Cliffs 2 are great sims - the DCS world imho is better than FSX and it supports combat. But like RoF but on the other end of the scale I'm not a huge fan of modern air combat. Ground pounding with the Su-25 is a blast though.

So what is a WWII fan left with? Really just IL2 - the same as it has been for a decade.

No, he's left with not flying at all. after 8 years with this sim the sauce was out and IL2 got shelved with the hope BoB to come out soon. The mods indeed brought it back to the computer. Not saying that is a regular occurance, but in this individual case, the mods simply gave IL2 new life.

rfxcasey
06-28-2010, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
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Man, those things are wild, especially consider when they were made. Just add some rockets.


Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wayno7777:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Stuff/photo.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPIO86jTrQQ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OMG!!!!!! Freaking best song EVER!!!!!! Gotta love Arnold!!!!!!

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Just found this too. OMG funny as all get out.

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VW-IceFire
06-28-2010, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by R_Target:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Why not a real cockpit for the Emily?

Or a Ki44?

Or a P40N?

Or anything we can really use?

Amen to that. Ki-45 is the dream. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Haven't people been working on all of these at different points in time?

I keep saying it would be really nice if someone took on an update to the P-40 series fixing the dihedral angle error, performing a few minor visual upgrades and adding the P-40N.

triad773
06-30-2010, 12:24 AM
Some cat's got homing sidewinders now.

I saw it at A A S just now.

Those can be used from a helo IRL, IIRC.

The adventure continues http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BillyTheKid_22
07-03-2010, 05:00 AM
LoL! Good video!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

M_Gunz
07-03-2010, 01:53 PM
the mod intention:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_CF7o3xtiW6g/Spw39sL***I/AAAAAAAAE-c/P0oOixjD23U/normal_Mona_Lisa_62.jpg



http://lh6.ggpht.com/_CF7o3xti...mal_Mona_Lisa_62.jpg

and sometimes the outcome:
http://rickmeyerowitz.com/Enlargements/Classics/Lamp-Mona-copy.jpg

Uufflakke
07-09-2010, 12:26 PM
Sikorsky with floats in the making:

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erco415
07-09-2010, 01:02 PM
Interesting bit with the helicopters.

I like a lot of what the various modders have given to us, but it is also true that since the mods have come out, nearly every squad night starts out with a thirty to sixty minute tech support session. Imho, this negative ever so slightly tips the scales against the mods. Yeah, I still use them, and I also see that this problem is being mitigated by Team D's work and the consolidation of the various mod packs, but for me, it was more fun to simply turn the key and go.

Friendly_flyer
07-10-2010, 03:43 PM
I've solved this by having several versions of IL2 on my computer. I mostly fly the vanilla version, unless I specifically want to fly one of the moded planes (the MBR is a blast to fly!).