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View Full Version : Unsyncronizing Tracers?



AlmightyTallest
01-12-2005, 06:08 PM
Just a suggestion. Some people here have suggested before that the guns on many of these aircraft should be unsyncronized. I would like to agree to that suggestion. It would first of all stop the "all or nothing" group of tracers that fires from the aircraft, and because the tracers would be unsyncronized, would allow the players to better guage their aiming point by the longer trail of tracer rounds being fired.

I figure since the tracer rounds have to be drawn and computed anyways, perhaps a solution could be found to stagger them. This would also allow almost all planes to take better snap shots. A plane that you know is going to quickly cross your path with these unsynchronized tracers would allow the pilot to spray and attempt to get a hit on the fast crossing target, like in real aerial encounters of the period. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Right now, when you fire that way at a fast crossing target, either all of your tracers would hit, or the enemy plane would end up in that "gap" between tracers and take no damage.

I think it would help improve on realism since much of the guncam footage seems to show tracers being fired that aren't all perfectly aligned and fired at the same time out of all the guns.

I hope this could be implemented in some way.

What we have now:

Guns:
For example, an F6F with 6 .50's

123 456 All fire at the same time

Perhaps they could be made to fire like this:

1
-----4
-2
-------6
------5
--3


This should also apply to Cannon armed aircraft as well, or any plane that has multiple guns of the same caliber.

Good Idea, bad? Let me know, I thought the others were on to something good and would improve the sim in regards to gunnery http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Athosd
01-12-2005, 07:05 PM
A couple of points - tracers are not the only rounds in the air (exception being some cannon loadouts). The game models the non-visible rounds as well (standard authorised belt compositions are used), so your point about a target flying between the tracers and not getting hit is not an issue with this sim.

Some aircraft do have unsynchronised tracers as of version 3.03 - for example its clearly visible with the Me110. I'm sure I've seen some posting about this having been added for some wing mounted batteries - just can't recall which planes.
I'll do some checking this evening, unless some other helpful soul pops in before hand with a detailed list.

It would certainly be good to visual effect to include on all the US 6 and 8 gun batteries. Perhaps it will be in 3.04 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cheers

Athos

AlmightyTallest
01-12-2005, 07:12 PM
Thanks for the info Athosd, I went through some of my saved 3.03 track files and put them in slow motion when the firing started. I did notice that in a few instances planes were taking damage by "invisible" ammunition before the tracers arrived. Very cool that this is already implemented.

It would still be nice to have the tracers more staggered so that you could get a better feel of the stream of bullets these fighters actually fired, and as you said it would be a good visual effect as well. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
01-12-2005, 08:12 PM
yeah be nice, most/all planes had there weapons set to fire like there where possible, chances of a hit are higher, better feel for where bullets are going.

also the mixed up ammo would mean that bullets/rounds of differernt types would hit at different times just, so ull hit a section of plane with ap/he/hei rather than just ap for example. planes with more than 2 of the same gun would benifit most, beufighter would be biggest winnar http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Athosd
01-13-2005, 01:26 AM
Messed about a bit in QMB - didn't try every type (175 flyables would take a while) but this is what I noted:

The Hurricane I and IIB displayed considerable variation in tracer output - its very cool (exactly what you are asking for AT).
Hurri II Field Mod has some variation in the Russian 12.7mms - and the Shvak cannon even showed different coloured tracer (white, yellow and red).

The .303 armed Spits also displayed a varied tracer pattern. As did the I-153 (didn't check I-16 but I expect it would be the same).

P47D10 changed the pattern a little after the first few tracer sets - as did the P51D20-NA (all other US types I looked at the tracers stayed in clumps).

Seems rifle calibre MGs are much more likely to display tracer stream variation, in game, than other types.

The US .50cal weapons tend to throw the tracers together in a bunch - though the actual pattern of trajectories varies.

I also noticed that tracer rounds, on striking the ground, tend to make a smokey puff - while the solids just kick up a tall plume of dust.

Observations were made on the Smolensk map at 1/4 speed in no cockpit view. No lemmings, flightless birds or small irritating children were injured in these tests.

Salute

Athos

AlmightyTallest
01-19-2005, 10:44 AM
Thanks for the report Athosd, good to hear lemmings, flightless birds and irritating children weren't harmed during testing lol http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But that's pretty cool that some of the aircraft are representing the tracer stream better already. I'm still hoping that this gets some kind of attention, because it would affect almost every plane in the sim. Positive affect too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AlmightyTallest
02-26-2005, 09:55 AM
Just a bump for this feature. Oleg mentioned that we won't be able to select our own ammo loadouts for PF/FB/AEP, but perhaps we could get the ammo belts to fire "unsyncronized" so that the various ammo types fire and strike at different times, the tracers all fire at different times creating a more realistic effect like we see in guncam footage of the period.

All creating a more realistic effect that effects ALL planes in this sim http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
02-26-2005, 02:43 PM
Of the .50cal armed aircraft only the inner .50cals on the P-51D and the Spitfire IXe fire in a unsyncronized fashion.

All of the .303s do as well. All of the 20mms are synced as are most of the heavy machine guns.

AlmightyTallest
02-26-2005, 02:49 PM
Thanks IceFire, so if Oleg and team were able to get the inner .50's unsynched perhaps he could do the same for the other 4 guns? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Same goes for all the other various caliber weapons that are synched. I think it would just make for a nicer visual effect where you'd be able to see the stream of ammo better, and with the mix in the ammo belts being fired at different times and fired by different guns various ammo combinations would impact the target simultaneously creating a good effect like the real guns did.