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View Full Version : The experts say that the best way to attack bombers is head-on. Can you do it?



Flying_Nutcase
01-04-2005, 11:31 PM
Hi all and Happy New Year!

Do you still attack bombers from the 6 o'clock? Do you find yourself getting nailed by AI gunners?

It's widely accepted that head-on attacks against bombers is the most effective way to make the kill while staying out of harms way.

http://www.jumpintojapan.com/images/fb-pf-missions/two-second-window/ubi-800.jpg

Have you tried it yet?

I've set up a really simple mission to practice the gunnery involved in such a situation.

I'll be posting an expanded situation very soon.

Want to test the theory? Check out:

Head-On Against a B-17 (http://www.jumpintojapan.com/fb-pf-missions.html)

The mission's name is Two Second Window, which refers to the very short opportunity you have to take a shot when flying head-on.

Be sure to checkout the 'Screenshots & Tips'. You may be surprised by how much lead you need to give.

I've included an ntrk too which you might find interesting.

I hope you enjoy the challenge!


S ~


Nutcase

Flying_Nutcase
01-04-2005, 11:31 PM
Hi all and Happy New Year!

Do you still attack bombers from the 6 o'clock? Do you find yourself getting nailed by AI gunners?

It's widely accepted that head-on attacks against bombers is the most effective way to make the kill while staying out of harms way.

http://www.jumpintojapan.com/images/fb-pf-missions/two-second-window/ubi-800.jpg

Have you tried it yet?

I've set up a really simple mission to practice the gunnery involved in such a situation.

I'll be posting an expanded situation very soon.

Want to test the theory? Check out:

Head-On Against a B-17 (http://www.jumpintojapan.com/fb-pf-missions.html)

The mission's name is Two Second Window, which refers to the very short opportunity you have to take a shot when flying head-on.

Be sure to checkout the 'Screenshots & Tips'. You may be surprised by how much lead you need to give.

I've included an ntrk too which you might find interesting.

I hope you enjoy the challenge!


S ~


Nutcase

3.JG51_BigBear
01-04-2005, 11:50 PM
Its a must to attack from the front. I use the tactic all the time even against lighter ground attack aircraft. With some practice it becomes second nature. The hardest part is placing yourself far enough in front of the bomber stream to give you time to get into attack position. The practice map is a great idea for those new to the technique.

WildeSau
01-05-2005, 03:12 AM
this is really the best, but also the most difficult way of attacking a bomber formation.

What I like to do is to setup a mission where you are attacking bombers in a Me-110 with WfGr.21 rockets while some Me-109 give you fighter escort.

Go and release your rockets into the bomber stream (can be done head on too) and if you aim well, some bombers go down directly or are at least damaged so that they have to leave the formation. Then you and the Me-109 (if they have taken care of the enemy fighters) can go after the bombers which left the formation and you can down them one by one.

This is from my point of view the best way of attacking a bomber formation.

Try it out.

WildeSau

Aufpassen
01-05-2005, 03:34 AM
This is how I think it is most effectively done.
A horizontal corkscrew around the bomber formation. Stay fast and you will not get hit.

http://www.march.cistron.nl/misc/1Me2621A-vs-8AceB17G_Smolensk.zip

stansdds
01-05-2005, 03:46 AM
I used it in European Air War, usually at least got a good smoker going and could finish it off at my liesure. Other than attacking from the 12 o'clock position, attacking from well above and diving on the bombers seems to work fairly well. I always tried to pick the bomber that was on the outside edge of the formation.

Attacking from the direct 6 o'clock position is suicide with most bombers. The advantage does lie with the tail gunner.

rurik
01-05-2005, 08:19 AM
Thanks to Nutcase for the quick practice missions; something I think has been lacking for a while http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Sakai9745
01-05-2005, 10:31 AM
Lately, I've been making a lot of Betty-Intercept missions, and I invariably find myself attacking from twelve o'clock, slightly low.

Then again, with a Betty, maybe it doesn't matter. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LEXX_Luthor
01-05-2005, 11:00 AM
This is cool.

Was doing some AI experiments and had Bf~109 Emails attack Pe~2 flight, they came from behind first but when one Email was left with ammo it came up from above and behind one Pe2 slowly as usual, then all of a sudden it charged way out front turned and attacked from the front. It was Veteran AI I think.

TgD Thunderbolt56
01-05-2005, 11:32 AM
Head-on is definitely the BEST way to take them out. Patience is rewarded by lining up and approaching correctly. Sadly, most players (online at least) don't take the time or have the patience to do it correctly.

TB

nearmiss
01-05-2005, 11:43 AM
Attacking from the front is effective in campaigns and missions Offline. Principally, because the bombers are usually flying straight line from waypoint to waypoint.

Whenever you fly the Quick Missions the bombers seem to be continually turning, which makes good head on passes very difficult.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif Don't judge the ability of this tactic by the results you get in quick missions.

J_Weaver
01-05-2005, 11:48 AM
Head-on attack are very effective if done correctly. When you add a ME-262 into the equation it becomes almost certain death for the bombers.

I like to attack head-on once I pass through the formation I break left and set up for an attack from 3 o'clock. I've found that because of the location of the gun site in German aircraft an attack from 3 o'clock is easier than an attack from 9 o'clock.

I've also tried breaking right after my head-on pass and climbing above the bombers. Once above them I roll inverted and dive through the fromation. By attacking inverted I can see my target much better and for a longer time, thus making the deflection shot easier. Although it takes some getting used to.

Snuffy Smith
01-05-2005, 11:52 AM
That's true: in the QMB the bombers always turn away sharply, and it is very difficult to get ahead of them again after your first approach pass. I've also found rockets very effective, and the 37mm is Jack the Giant Killer.

Sakai9745
01-05-2005, 11:53 AM
I remember my 262-days. I would usually zip in head on from slightly low (what is it with me and low?! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif), pull up slightly as I let loose, then jinxed as I continued the shallow climb. A 180, get ahead of the formation, then, as Weaver stated, roll inverted an slash downwards. Another 180, get ahead of the formation once again, then rinse, lather, and repeat.

Where does everyone aim during these head-on attacks? I normally go for a wingroot if armed with cannons, or an engine with MGs.

Huckebein_UK
01-05-2005, 11:59 AM
The cockpit - always for the cockpit. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

TC_Stele
01-05-2005, 12:03 PM
Head on is definately the best. I fly the bombers mostly online and there have been extremely rare occasions where I've seen people take the time and effort to get ahead of me and approach me from my 12. However, this probably works better offline because all I have to do is make my sharp turn without having to worry about wingmen.

Best approach online against a human bomber is probably 2 to 3 o'clock high for a BnZ.

J_Weaver
01-05-2005, 01:02 PM
Sakai, I usually aim dead center or close to it. That seems to offer the best odds for a hit. And in a head-on attack just about any hit is sure to bring some serious damage. If you've got 30mm's like the Me-262 a solid hit is usually fatal. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bongokid
01-05-2005, 01:17 PM
Can't wait to try this mission and improve...i'm one of those always ending in the six of the bomber and getting cut to pieces by the tailgunner http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

I've tried to attack from several angles but can't seem to grab the 'deflection'trick yet.

Which view are you using experts out there ? (aiming view, medium, wide view) While i find the aiming view efficient to choose a precise area on the target, i have a very tough time controling the plane while in this view, especially since i've got Track IR and any move of my head makes the view jump...

another noobish one : which plane would you recommend to practice bomber fighting ?

Cheers,

Bongokid

JG51Beolke
01-05-2005, 01:48 PM
Thanks for the training missions. I'll put them to good use tonight.

Again, Thank You

icrash
01-05-2005, 04:54 PM
A couple of Zeros bagged my B25 that way. The first got the nose gunner and punched some holes in the canopy. His wingman tagged me and smoked an engine. I don't seem to be good at bagging bombers that way. Definately need more practice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Atomic_Marten
01-05-2005, 05:03 PM
When flying late war planes, I find it actually easy. But, since I'm not so "sit-25min-and-wait-for-the-perfect-moment" guy, I sorta BnZ 'em.

When on over 1.0k above and slightly ahead of bomber (heading same direction as fat bird), I just roll over and dive on him aiming for cockpit and/or mostly wings (fuel tanks, engines).

PriK
01-05-2005, 05:13 PM
Head on attack only on your first pass.

Make a circle to the left (or right) keeping out of range of their guns and gain height as you catch up and pass the more room between you the better.

Pass the bomber by some distance and turn into them from 45 degrees off of head-on and from above. This allows you to keep a good view to line up with them and also be able to judge their approach speed better.

Attack on a shallow dive as this gives you a better target and keeps your speed up. Start firing earlier than you might expect, you have a better chance of killing the pilot.

Keep your speed up as you pass. Coming in from an oblique angle and dive presents a moving relative target for the gunners and much harder shot.

Repeat in figure-8 pattern until the bomber is down.

This approach works the best for staying alive but requires some patience, especially when catching up and passing the bomber to set up for your next frontal attack.

Air quake players need not apply. Just keep attacking from the back and respawning.

WUAF_Badsight
01-05-2005, 06:19 PM
one pass = 3 dead B-17s

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/Badsight/Go-headOn1.jpg

tascaso
01-05-2005, 07:06 PM
Loads of fun...you know with a ME262 you can set the convergence to 700 meters which reduces the amount of holdover and at high speed you run down those slow moving boxes and snipe away. The gunners will not be able to hit you as long as you dont close.

With the props its best to go for the difficult head on shot!

Tony

roybaty
01-06-2005, 06:32 AM
Hehehe, my old Warbirds squad specialized in bomber intercepts with headon attacks. Takes alot of patience, and practice to know what the right moment is to fire when closing at 600+ mph.

We flew LW so we'd attack one bomber in sections of 4+ planes almost gauranteeing a kill. We'd fly parallel +2000 feet and overtake a bomber group, once far enough ahead we'd turn around and drive headon in a shallow dive, in trail formation, and each one of us would hit the same bomber. You didn't like seeing this if you a buff pilot 'cause you knew unless your escorts were around you were toast.

Flying_Nutcase
01-06-2005, 05:47 PM
Hi,

I hope that you enjoyed this little mission.

Thanks for your comments and to the more experienced, for your ideas about tactics.

I'll put a fuller version of that mission in a couple of days.


Cheers ~


Nutcase