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DjiXas
02-22-2011, 07:19 AM
Are you guys serious?

I was excited about MMH up until now, it will suck like C&C4-5 did when they messed up with resources system.

mcgslo
02-22-2011, 07:30 AM
Dont judge too quickly ... it could turn up great... since they are implementing new control system....

DjiXas
02-22-2011, 07:44 AM
From what I see, they are dumbing it down and turning it into some sort of "popular" RPG with locked heroes and other non heroes universe materials

znork
02-22-2011, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by DjiXas:
From what I see, they are dumbing it down and turning it into some sort of "popular" RPG with locked heroes and other non heroes universe materials

Youll get som answer about this tomorow

andthenitends
02-22-2011, 11:14 AM
Cutting it down to just 3 resources does seem kinda cheesy. I have to wonder why not at least 4?

Asterisk
02-22-2011, 01:41 PM
It's 4 resources. Gold is the 4th.

andthenitends
02-22-2011, 02:39 PM
Gold is just gold and I didn't count it :3

Rei-V
02-22-2011, 03:56 PM
I have to admit I was very disappointed when I heard this also. After all they have said at the start about keeping the essence of the game the same to stay true to the fans.... they seem to have changed an aweful lot... and whilst we haven't seen it in action yet, it APPEARS on paper to be too dumbed down so far.

DjiXas
02-23-2011, 04:03 AM
From what I understand, they remove it so multi-player would be more competitive so all fight for same resources?

This does not make much sense, as if 2 people need gems, etc. and there is a very limited supply of it, that's when the real competition begins.

And if developers still disagree, at least add it to single player... expansion, or whatever, just bring them back

Thunion
02-23-2011, 06:50 AM
I would like to see 2 special recources.4 special recources MAYBE are a nit complicated but if have at least 2 this would make impact of what choice you make for example: 1 player plays inferno who need sufur other player plays haven who needs gems there is 1 ine of gems and 1 of sulfur each in diffrent corner of the map.Player have a choice:either dont let enemy to take sulfur his openent needs and stop his prudicng of t7 guys,this can be done if his t7 give him some advantage and with only t1-t6 you can beat his t1-t6 other option is of course go to get gems and build your t7 to which would result in general combat with all creatures.This can heavely impact the game.

Nxss
02-23-2011, 09:18 AM
I can only speculate as to why there are only four resources as there has been no info about this. *cough cough* However, every version of Heroes has been different from the last, granted they have all had the same resources, but I loved them all for what they were and I am sure I will them H6 as well

The only thing I care about right now is when I can go pick up the game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I would prefer it to be tomorrow, but I know that is not going to happen. If the H6 is not coming out for another two months though, I had better see a demo in two days! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Asterisk
02-23-2011, 10:59 AM
I wonder what Dragon Tears "mine" looks like...

Nxss
02-23-2011, 11:20 AM
If you look at some of the screen shots, you will notice that they is a stone circle with crystal around them an one in the middle with a flag. That might be it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cartesian214
02-23-2011, 08:24 PM
As an active member of several mod sites and community-supported games, I've learned the "hidden" importance of decisions like this.

I make maps for several of these RTS games, and I always strive to produce professional-quality work. There are many game mechanics that place limits on map design, to the point that they actually decrease the flexibility of the game.

Go watch some professional Starcraft 2 matches and you'll see that all the maps have ramps leading to main bases. The game has been balanced to work with easily-defended bases, and while an open-base map is still usable in most circles, it is NOT an option in the highest circles of skilled gamers. Fortunately Starcraft 2 has very few limiting factors besides this, and can still have a good deal of variety in map structure.

Give us mapmakers a simpler system to work with, and we'll be free to give you more map designs that are different yet balanced.

Alextriad
03-01-2011, 06:30 PM
The many resources was certainly unique, but since random resources are often used for maps it makes the advantages pretty random. Also, when select resources are chosen for the said created map, its still random unless the players are forced to play certain town types from the start. There is no way to tell what town the players will want. Of course even numbers of accessible resources could be put on the map. This makes it more fair and adds to the game play with personal strategy, but very little in the long run.

I used to play competitive Smash Melee went to the biggest tournaments and trained with the best in the world (who lived 30 minutes away go figure). Any moves in the game that had a random output were a total waste for top players. Too much random kills strategy.
The developers said they are to take out the random skill offerings each level for HOMM6. (and may it forever be called Heroes of Might and Magic...)

Without each map made carefully, the traditional many number of resources would continue to be a "random-fest". Now with the resources reduced, maps can be made much easier and less likely to have constant greatly unfair advantages.


People may be confused to why less resources can increase strategy, but I would say it's possible. As the saying goes, less it more.

NeoCount
03-26-2011, 03:16 PM
Yeah, I guess less is more tactical. So why bother with resources while just gold would be sooo tactical. IMO they find people to be too stupid to menage more complex strategy. Guess it is new trend nowadays

Nxss
03-26-2011, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by NeoCount:
Yeah, I guess less is more tactical. So why bother with resources while just gold would be sooo tactical. IMO they find people to be too stupid to menage more complex strategy. Guess it is new trend nowadays

If H6 was being ported to the consoles, I would agree with you that it was being dumbed down. However, as far as I know, it is not! None of us have any idea how the three resource thing is going to work until we play. Everything we have been shown seems to go in the opposite direction. BH looks like they will be taking the series in a whole new direction and, as far as I am concerned, will make it sweet in the Heroes tradition!

Never judge a game before you play it! As sometimes it may surprise you! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

NeoCount
03-27-2011, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by Nxss:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NeoCount:
Yeah, I guess less is more tactical. So why bother with resources while just gold would be sooo tactical. IMO they find people to be too stupid to menage more complex strategy. Guess it is new trend nowadays

If H6 was being ported to the consoles, I would agree with you that it was being dumbed down. However, as far as I know, it is not! None of us have any idea how the three resource thing is going to work until we play. Everything we have been shown seems to go in the opposite direction. BH looks like they will be taking the series in a whole new direction and, as far as I am concerned, will make it sweet in the Heroes tradition!

Never judge a game before you play it! As sometimes it may surprise you! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like you need to port the game to consoles to dumbe it down. I still remember how much effort it took to defeat computer on impossible difficulty in HoMaM3 on random XL maps. If you want the game to be quicker - simplyfing management system will do that, but I refuse to call it more tactical. Sure, one shouldn't judge before palying, still it's huge step back that create excuse for next simplifications in the future. I had more than enough suprises in this year, sadly all where rather bad so sorry for my scepticism. I would rather suspect developers are too lazy to properly use power of 7 resources

Nalafein
03-27-2011, 08:13 AM
Im not quite sure what to make of this.
3 Resources will indeed feel odd, though they are doing some significant changes to the mechanism in itself right?

i'll wait for the beta and see how it works out before i start(or if) complaining about this.

Shawn85
03-27-2011, 02:26 PM
I think the blackhole resource revamp is the best thing they have done. Micro managing 7 resources and constantly getting mines capped miles away by enemy heroes (usually carrying 1 unit) crippled past iterations of this series. The focus of this game should be city building, hero progression and tactical expansion. Not playing tag with a bunch of mindless npcs. Good job blackhole.

NeoCount
03-27-2011, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Shawn85:
I think the blackhole resource revamp is the best thing they have done. Micro managing 7 resources and constantly getting mines capped miles away by enemy heroes (usually carrying 1 unit) crippled past iterations of this series. The focus of this game should be city building, hero progression and tactical expansion. Not playing tag with a bunch of mindless npcs. Good job blackhole.

Yeah, becouse it was impossible to create a secondary hero/es to protect the mines. Just too difficult

alficon
03-27-2011, 03:17 PM
Yeah, becouse it was impossible to create a secondary hero/es to protect the mines. Just too difficult


Yes, that's what playing tag with the AI means.

3 of the 4 rare resources always become irrelevant after the 3rd week or so. This means everyone fights for the same resource, which stays relevant throughout the game. Wait and see how it plays out. Really, there was little point to move troops to a secondary hero just to protect a sulfur dune as Tower or a gem pond as Inferno after building mage guild and upgrading that one dwelling that required a different resource than my specific rare resource.

One rare resource only removes some flavor from the factions involved.

NeoCount
03-27-2011, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by alficon:
Yeah, becouse it was impossible to create a secondary hero/es to protect the mines. Just too difficult


Yes, that's what playing tag with the AI means.

3 of the 4 rare resources always become irrelevant after the 3rd week or so. This means everyone fights for the same resource, which stays relevant throughout the game. Wait and see how it plays out. Really, there was little point to move troops to a secondary hero just to protect a sulfur dune as Tower or a gem pond as Inferno after building mage guild and upgrading that one dwelling that required a different resource than my specific rare resource.

One rare resource only removes some flavor from the factions involved.

Guess, u never played impossible with computer - 3rd week never meant other resources irrelevant. First of all building all levels of magic guild always took more time, and second different factions needed defferent resources - like tower needen gems, fortres sulfur and stronghold crystals. So after building all dwellings and conquering another faction castle you had to protect at least two different types of rare resources. At this time wood and stone was unnecessary, so why shouldn't we drop them either?

Shawn85
03-27-2011, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by NeoCount:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn85:
I think the blackhole resource revamp is the best thing they have done. Micro managing 7 resources and constantly getting mines capped miles away by enemy heroes (usually carrying 1 unit) crippled past iterations of this series. The focus of this game should be city building, hero progression and tactical expansion. Not playing tag with a bunch of mindless npcs. Good job blackhole.

Yeah, becouse it was impossible to create a secondary hero/es to protect the mines. Just too difficult </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not impossoible but I can think of a few terms for it; annoying, distractive, poor design, not fun. Don't buy this new game, play mine tag with npcs in previous iterations.

NeoCount
03-28-2011, 03:05 AM
Originally posted by Shawn85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NeoCount:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shawn85:
I think the blackhole resource revamp is the best thing they have done. Micro managing 7 resources and constantly getting mines capped miles away by enemy heroes (usually carrying 1 unit) crippled past iterations of this series. The focus of this game should be city building, hero progression and tactical expansion. Not playing tag with a bunch of mindless npcs. Good job blackhole.

Yeah, becouse it was impossible to create a secondary hero/es to protect the mines. Just too difficult </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not impossoible but I can think of a few terms for it; annoying, distractive, poor design, not fun. Don't buy this new game, play mine tag with npcs in previous iterations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol, same here. If you find managing 7 res too difficult or you are only up to combat, why bothering heroes while you have Mortal Combat?

GoranXII
03-28-2011, 03:27 AM
You know the biggest issue with the old system? It wasn't the number of resources, but the fact that virtually everything but gold was too rare to do anything with. If they'd upped the production of the rare resources by say 3 times, they could have added cost to all the creatures down to ooh, level 4.

alficon
03-28-2011, 09:13 AM
Lol, same here. If you find managing 7 res too difficult or you are only up to combat, why bothering heroes while you have Mortal Combat?

No one said it was difficult to manage, it wasn't even in the slightest. It was however time consuming and mostly irrelevant in the medium-late stages of the game.

And yes, HOMM battles are exactly like Mortal Kombat...

wdcryer
03-28-2011, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by NeoCount:
Guess, u never played impossible with computer - 3rd week never meant other resources irrelevant. First of all building all levels of magic guild always took more time, and second different factions needed defferent resources - like tower needen gems, fortres sulfur and stronghold crystals. So after building all dwellings and conquering another faction castle you had to protect at least two different types of rare resources. At this time wood and stone was unnecessary, so why shouldn't we drop them either?

When you did conquer another faction you had plenty of the resources that matter most to them because you didn't need to use them as much for your town. Now the resources you need are going to be the same across multiple towns, so you may not have such a surplus of certain resources to develop conquered towns. You may have to make a harder decision about where to develop.

There are a few other things to note. First, there are no mage guilds any more, so the fact that they skewed more towns towards a more even need of resources is no longer relevant. Second, wood and stone may be important when converting towns, especially if the town gets converted to a low level (which I believe it does). Finally, the costs of buildings is still a complete mystery, so it's hard to judge the new system entirely.

NeoCount
03-28-2011, 03:07 PM
If they'd upped the production of the rare resources by say 3 times, they could have added cost to all the creatures down to ooh, level 4.

And that is an excellent idea.


There are a few other things to note. First, there are no mage guilds any more, so the fact that they skewed more towns towards a more even need of resources is no longer relevant. Second, wood and stone may be important when converting towns, especially if the town gets converted to a low level (which I believe it does). Finally, the costs of buildings is still a complete mystery, so it's hard to judge the new system entirely.

I know it, and IMO this is no longer heroes with this changes. Will see how it's going to be, but after strange changes in game mechanics, HoMaM 4 was considered as worst part in cycle, hope 6 is not going to share 4th "succes". What I'm trying to say is much better idea to use full potential of 7 resources insted of simplyfing the game. It is possible - ie magic smith (not sure of english name) in academy (h5). Nowadays games are mowing into "win button" direction, just to satisfy anyone.

Nalafein
03-29-2011, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by NeoCount:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If they'd upped the production of the rare resources by say 3 times, they could have added cost to all the creatures down to ooh, level 4.

And that is an excellent idea.


There are a few other things to note. First, there are no mage guilds any more, so the fact that they skewed more towns towards a more even need of resources is no longer relevant. Second, wood and stone may be important when converting towns, especially if the town gets converted to a low level (which I believe it does). Finally, the costs of buildings is still a complete mystery, so it's hard to judge the new system entirely.

I know it, and IMO this is no longer heroes with this changes. Will see how it's going to be, but after strange changes in game mechanics, HoMaM 4 was considered as worst part in cycle, hope 6 is not going to share 4th "succes". What I'm trying to say is much better idea to use full potential of 7 resources insted of simplyfing the game. It is possible - ie magic smith (not sure of english name) in academy (h5). Nowadays games are mowing into "win button" direction, just to satisfy anyone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is a trend most games tend to achive unfortunatly. Win button games gets booring and dull fast. though certain games with a competetive scene usually stays good for a good long time...

tiamat4455
04-03-2011, 06:22 AM
I believe this is a very good thing. The game will be more competitive as all the factions will fight for the same resources.

Destruction3402
04-03-2011, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by tiamat4455:
I believe this is a very good thing. The game will be more competitive as all the factions will fight for the same resources.
I agree, I was a bit sceptical at first, but now I also believe this will turn out the be a good change.

Asterisk
04-03-2011, 09:02 AM
Oh good old days of Dune: The Battle for Arrakis.... 1 resource... :aaahhhh:

Nobody complained...

Trance-Zg
04-03-2011, 10:21 AM
I too also agree that 3 resources are too little.
Maybe 4? 2 common(ore&wood) and 2 special.

1st: minerals, old crystals and gems
2nd: alchemy, old sulphur and mercury.

znork
04-03-2011, 11:51 AM
The planed resrouces will work out fine. We tested it in budapest and when you play the game youll se how less is more.

WaterPoloLaw
04-04-2011, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by Shawn85:
I think the blackhole resource revamp is the best thing they have done. Micro managing 7 resources and constantly getting mines capped miles away by enemy heroes (usually carrying 1 unit) crippled past iterations of this series. The focus of this game should be city building, hero progression and tactical expansion. Not playing tag with a bunch of mindless npcs. Good job blackhole.

This...

And the problem that nobody every went after the same resource. Having too many resources was a real problem in previous installments since very rarely did both you and your opponent primarly go after the same resource.

It will be a lot more crucial to control gem mines (and keep your opponent from controlling them) in H6.

wdcryer
04-04-2011, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by znork:
The planed resrouces will work out fine. We tested it in budapest and when you play the game youll se how less is more.

I have a feeling a lot of people will change their tune when they try it, too.