PDA

View Full Version : How many people could live without the conspiracy theory? (spoilers)



Matt_156
01-06-2010, 07:08 PM
If Assassin's Creed didn't have all the goofy Da Vinci Code conspiracy theory bulldink and instead was a trilogy about a lineage of Assassins, starting with Altair and ending with whomever is the star of AC3.

I personally would much prefer that. I love the games to death, but I can't help but find the Animus stuff immersion-breaking, overblown, and kinda silly. What do you guys think?

Acastle
01-06-2010, 07:35 PM
I find it the most interesting part, actually.

Stories about old dead people with no tie to the future are boring.

Psyantifik
01-06-2010, 08:00 PM
In my opinion... (Just remember that)

Its all so interlinked with history to perfection. And doesnt just give you a character to button mash through few assassinations... cause lets be honest. The game your wanting is just a button mashing extravaganza. with no shadow of a doubt the game would auto skip the cut scenes. To grant you with more mashing time.

All great games have a story and AC's is one off the finest i've played, the theories, history... and of course the Animus making it all possible adding to that experience.

sgt_brent
01-06-2010, 08:06 PM
I very much enjoyed the Conspiracy Theory part of the game.. They were challenging at times, and left me, personally, with a sense of accomplishment when I finished one..

It was just one more gameplay feature added into the game that made ME want to go back and play, play, play.. I'm still not finished finding everything, by the way..

All in all, I think they were excellent historical and at times, religious puzzles that completely jived with the overall feel of the game.

Matt_156
01-06-2010, 08:14 PM
my suggestion has nothing to do with a desire for button mashing or skipping cutscenes. i love the gameplay in AC and AC2. also, i love the history and the story as it relates to the relevant time periods.

my main point is that i find the futuristic conspiracy theory junk convoluted and superfluous. i think AC would be a great game without it, and the fact that it's there just breaks the immersion for me. let's be honest, we return to AC for the atmosphere. the replay value is in Florence and Venice, not in the so called "Assassin's Hideout" that Desmond and Lucy inhabit in the present-day.

to be clear, if you love the conspiracy theory i have no problem with that and please, discuss it. but don't get confused. i'm not talking about "button mashing" or cutscenes. i'm talking about atmosphere and what makes AC truly great. the answer, in my mind, is Ezio and Altair, not Desmond and Lucy.

Psyantifik
01-06-2010, 09:04 PM
Yeh i get you now... but tbh Desmond is the key role here. without his DNA there would be no Memory Sync with Altair or Ezio. So i would say Desmond makes the game great lol His life and DNA makes the story relivable.

If that means playing bits with Lucy then i don't mind.

RoGi10
01-06-2010, 09:31 PM
To be fair, we can't really judge Desmond, with the past two games developing Altair, and Ezio. I'm sure that if Desmond was given his own title that actually develpoed his character past
" we need you to sit down so we can probe your anscestors!!" then we wouldn't mind having Desmond as an assassin.

The story itself has some flaws,potholes, and is a bit sketchy, but is still very intriguing, and it works.

In short: It's fine the way it is.

DLTyrus
01-06-2010, 10:36 PM
Without the conspiracy theory there would be no storyline, no reason for a machine so complex as the animus, no abstergo or templars or reason for the assassins to assassinate, we would just be watching a random series of assassins through different ages assassinating a series of targets with no links, for either personal or impersonal reasons. Altair would just be killing who he was told, and Ezio would have finished killing when the last person who was directly related to his father's death.

Without the major "conspiracy theory" through time, assassin's creed would go from an epic and complex storyline, in my opinion anyway, to a game whos only appealing factor is the nice historical environments it creates.

I'm not sure how you find the present day scenes immersion breaking, though, the whole idea of immersion is that you feel you are a part of the story and that it is real, if you disliked the present day scenes and scenes based around the conspiracy then you never really had immersion in this game to begin with.

paranoidparadox
01-06-2010, 10:55 PM
i think matty poo already had a predispostion against this "conspiracy theory junk" and or "bulldink".

it just seems that in the last 4-5 years game developers actually started to put effort into good storytelling. that's why i was so into bioshock and the first ac. i also love the fact that you have to reserch outside of the game if you want the full effect. i would even call these games educational.

you take away the conspiracy theory and you are left with an underwhelming story.

Brett_Master5
01-06-2010, 11:16 PM
What DLTyrus is saying is if you wanted to play an assassin game with no real story behind just a bunch of random puzzles and killings than the Hitman series would be more your thing.

I like the storyline because it's a subject matter that interests me.

Matt_156
01-07-2010, 09:16 AM
matty poo? lol

well i certainly respect all your opinions even though no-one agrees with me. i do have a predisposition against the conspiracy theory junk, that should have been evident from my first post. i feel like it's childish and needlessly complicated and full of holes. i was just wondering if anyone agrees with me.

regarding the storyline, i'd argue that a great story could have been told focusing on the Templars vs. the Assassins without ever leaving the relevant time period. the "educational" aspects of AC are in the factual history, not the made-up present. to the poster who said there would be no Templars without the Animus or Abstergo: <eyeroll>

a lot of people seem to be misunderstanding my original post. i'm not looking to play Hitman, i'm not asking for a button mashing revamp of the gameplay, and my sense of immersion is not in question. neither am i suggesting that ubisoft rip out everything pertaining to the conspiracy theory and present us with a game with no story.

what i'm saying is that the heart of the AC experience is in the Ancestors, Altair and Ezio. in my humble opinion, all this Da Vinci Code hooey is distracting and disjointed and doesn't jive with the mediaeval setting. it distracts from what matters. it feels like a flaw in an otherwise near-perfect game to me. when i pop AC2 back into my ps3, it's not to wander around Lucy's warehouse as Desmond, it's to raid Florence or Venice with Ezio (or Altair).

so feel free to disagree with me but remember that this is the topic ^

DLTyrus
01-07-2010, 10:22 AM
I'm trying to understand where you're coming from but your critisms just don't make sense to me.

First, you say the plot is childish, needlessly complicated, and full of holes. Well childish is just a matter of opinion so I suppose we can only agree to disagree there, as is whether its complexity is good or bad.
But full of holes? Hardly, the story writers of this game have gone out of their way to make sure their conspiracy theory fits throughout history and even goes so far as to offer an explanation for various strange or unexplained things in history, and draws off of religion and mythical metaphors and makes it look as if they could have plausibly started as a result of these events.

The educational aspects are largely in the history yes, but what that poster was referring to was the riddles and conspiracy around various historical events have led many players to research those historical events and learn more.

As for "eyeroll" to me saying there would be no templars, well, there wouldn't. The Templar Order would have only been present in the first Assassin's Creed game, in the context in which we saw Altair fight them except the only motivation would be to defend the Holy Land.

Then, by Assassin's Creed 2 and the 15th century the Templar order had been disolved for about 100 years, so no templars any more. So Ezio would have been out for revenge on those who killed his family, sure, that would mean we still assassinate those that we did in Florence, maybe, though even some of those only became targets of Ezio because of spying on -Templar- meetings. After this, though, he'd have no real reason to go to Venice or anything or kill anyone there, unless they put together some stringy theory that there's more corrupt guys in Venice and Ezio decides to go kill them to for some reason.

Furthermore, with no Animus there is no Desmond, no genetic memory, and no link between the games. Therefore there would be no plot holding them together so all we would have was a series of stand alone games, perhaps with weak ties such as Ezio recieving Altair's armour 300 years later, but nothing significant.

This is why I say with no conspiracy there would be no plot, because there barely would be. Perhaps you just enjoy the historical atmospheres when playing these games, fair enough, but if you haven't enjoyed the plot of Desmond in the present day (or, near future) then you haven't really been truly enjoying the game IMO which is kinda sad because the story is so good.

Whatever reason you automatically dislike sci-fi conspiracy theories revolving around time travel or atleast the concept of time as more than we see it, then I guess you're not going to like the rest of the story, but if you're just assuming it will be bad then I say give it a chance, because its very well done.

Matt_156
01-07-2010, 11:05 AM
of course there would be no plot if all the conspiracy theory junk was ripped out and no attempt was made to patch the holes. i'm not envisioning a game like that. my ideal Assassin's Creed would be a trilogy set in the relevant time periods with a -different- storyline revolving around the Templars vs. the Assassins. i don't think it would be difficult to link Altair and Ezio sans Animus. i think a much more compelling story could be derived organically from, say, the political climate in Renaissance Italy, or the state of Jerusalem during the Crusades.

i don't disagree that, as it stands, the Animus is inextricably interwoven with the plot and the game couldn't survive without it. my idea is this: imagine Assassin's Creed without the Conspiracy Theory crap. i think it's a great idea, some people don't agree. no problem. the point of this thread is not to debunk the Animus or list off every silly plot point in the story. i'm not out to -prove- that the conspiracy theory crap is childish and misplaced.

your opinion is great and kudos for defending the animus, but stop making personal assumptions about me. i can assure you that i do "truly enjoy" the game. the main reason i bought a ps3 was because of the first E3 demo of AC1 back in '05 or '06. and as you probably remember, AC was originally slated to be a ps3 exclusive. furthermore i don't "automatically dislike sci-fi conspiracy theories revolving around time travel or the concept of time as more than we see it." as i've already said 3 or 4 times, i just think it disrupts the beautifully immersive mediaeval world that ubi has so masterfully created. leave me out of it & stay on topic please.

paranoidparadox
01-07-2010, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Matt_156:
i feel like it's childish and needlessly complicated and full of holes.


so is it childish or complicated? hardly seems it could be both. it just seems like someones being way too cynical. and where are these holes you speak of? i'm sure there are plenty of other games you play that have tons of plot holes. do those bother you as well or is it just the games that deal with subject matter that you already had a predisposition for.


the "educational" aspects of AC are in the factual history, not the made-up present.

uh, no. pretty much all of the characters you assassinate had to have there timelines moved around to fit in the game. not to mention their personalities. not very factual.



a lot of people seem to be misunderstanding my original post.

i think most of us understand. you like the gameplay and the story (atleast the parts that exclude conspiracy frabble gabble) even though it's so closely fused with conspiracy theory badonkadonk that if you were to take that away you wouldn't have a story, because as mentioned above it's not really all that factual. so if you take away the conspiracy theory whopbabalooboopawhopbamboo you then have holes. lots of holes.... holes that need to be filled.... see what i'm getting at. i think you do....


neither am i suggesting that ubisoft rip out everything pertaining to the conspiracy theory and present us with a game with no story.

not everything... so just the parts you don't like? is there a certain conspiracy that offended you?


what i'm saying is that the heart of the AC experience is in the Ancestors, Altair and Ezio.

i agree. but i'd also say that the conspiracy theory boomshakalaka is the blood that's pumping through that heart.


in my humble opinion, all this Da Vinci Code hooey is distracting and disjointed and doesn't jive with the mediaeval setting. it distracts from what matters. it feels like a flaw in an otherwise near-perfect game to me. when i pop AC2 back into my ps3, it's not to wander around Lucy's warehouse as Desmond, it's to raid Florence or Venice with Ezio (or Altair).

you're obviously in the minority on this one. the story of this game is why i picked of the ac2. i have a feeling i'm not the only one. it goes back to that whole predisposition thing. when you hear the word "conspiracy theory" you probably associate it with words like "crazy" or "false".it has a lot of negative associations. but that doesn't make them true. it just makes us ask questions. and that's something we as a society just don't do a whole lot of. it's too inconveinient to ask questions that threaten what we think we know. but before i go off the deep end, it's just a game. a solid, mind stimulating, very nice to look at, video game. so if you can't get past the conspiracy theory boomboomyeah don't play it.


so feel free to disagree with me but remember that this is the topic ^

no problem

Matt_156
01-07-2010, 11:29 AM
in response to paranoidparadox, the reason that i find it childish is because it's *needlessly* complicated. the two are not mutually exclusive concepts. pretty much everything else you've said i already covered in my previous post.

paranoidparadox
01-07-2010, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Matt_156:
in response to paranoidparadox, the reason that i find it childish is because it's *needlessly* complicated. the two are not mutually exclusive concepts. pretty much everything else you've said i already covered in my previous post. when does anything ever *need* to be complicated? so are you saying it's pretentious? seriously though. explain this to my small brain.

and if by "covered in my previous post" you mean skillfully avoided all of my good points, then yes, you did "cover" them.

DLTyrus
01-07-2010, 11:43 AM
Its really not all that complex, there are just complexities there for those that wish to look into them, which is what makes it so good.

If you do not care for all the little details of exactly who is involved in the conspiracy, it basically boils down to:

(Spoilers, obviously)



Templar organisation that began in the 12th century or so (although its ideals began much earlier) is looking for the artefacts that remain from an ancient civilisation that came before, and created, the human race. Another ancient organisation of assassins combats them, and both have survived through to the present day whereby they now race to find the artefacts, the Pieces of Eden, before the other. Historically, mostly members of the Templar order have posessed the Pieces of Eden, and have used them to help them accomplish many historical events, ranging from creating the atomic bomb to the start and end of WW2.

Now, Desmond discovers that Those Who Came Before left a message in a vault in italy that spoke through time to him, to forewarn him of another apocalyptic event, the same that wiped out Those Who Came Before and most of the human race they created, and discovers that he must stop it.


(End spoilers)

And thats it, thats the sci-fi side of the plot so far in a nutshell, minus the details of the historical templar conspiracy in the Holy Land and now Italy, since I presume you liked those parts.

Matt_156
01-07-2010, 11:50 AM
paradox, things need to be complicated when they can't function on a simpler level. a pocke****ch, for instance.

i'm not avoiding any of your points, i addressed them already in the post immediately before yours. most of what you said had already been said by DLT, so if you want a response to your clever points, look there. i'm not about to get snarky with you, so if you're looking for a flame war, look elsewhere.

DLT the stuff i was referring to was more like the picture of Ghandi with a piece of Eden hidden in his robes, or the connection between Tesla coils and the Abstergo conspiracy.

Matt_156
01-07-2010, 11:51 AM
that should say pocket watch. idk why that'd be filtered lol

Matt_156
01-07-2010, 11:53 AM
ooh wait, now i do. apparently pocket watch as one word contains a naughty no no in the middle. lol that's funny

meestyna
01-07-2010, 11:55 AM
I skipped a large part of the topic and I just wanted to do my part http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

When I bought AC2 I was anxious and excited; I wanted to know what the story was going to be and I dreaded to be disappointed because I just so loved the first game that I wanted to keep a good impression of the series.

When I found the first Glyph I was like "oO cool!"

And with the next one I got really excited. It was like those thing really did happen. And it gave another dimension to the storyline.

It gives the impression that Altair, Ezio and hell even Desmond were real in their time.

Without all this conspiracy **** the game would be dull.

And I just so love stories were the "bad guys" seem unbeatable and faceless.

So what I'm trying to say is I love this storyline and I love the people who invested themselves for this.

With that said I'll shut up and wish you a good evening

XD

M'tyna.

DLTyrus
01-07-2010, 11:59 AM
DLT the stuff i was referring to was more like the picture of Ghandi with a piece of Eden hidden in his robes, or the connection between Tesla coils and the Abstergo conspiracy.

Yeah, none of that stuff is important and if you find it childish, or overly complicated, or whatever, you can mostly just ignore it. Some of it you need to pay slight attention to in order to solve the riddles but its not like you need to know about the Tesla and Ghandi stuff to enjoy the main plot of the game.

paranoidparadox
01-07-2010, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Matt_156:
paradox, things need to be complicated when they can't function on a simpler level. a pocke****ch, for instance.

i'm not avoiding any of your points, i addressed them already in the post immediately before yours. most of what you said had already been said by DLT, so if you want a response to your clever points, look there. i'm not about to get snarky with you, so if you're looking for a flame war, look elsewhere.

DLT the stuff i was referring to was more like the picture of Ghandi with a piece of Eden hidden in his robes, or the connection between Tesla coils and the Abstergo conspiracy. matty poo, i'm not looking for a flame war. i just fail to see how anything in this game is "childish" or "silly". may not be your cup of tea but that's no reason to insult the very thing that most people find appealing about this game. and if you can still point out anything that is childish in the game, please do so. other than the fact that it's a video game. i'm really not trying to be a d-bag, i'm just trying to see what you are getting at here

jasmin-jade
01-07-2010, 01:20 PM
i think all the conspiricy crap in assassins creed is the best part about it.

As for templars still existing today as the game sugests is probally true to a degree.
when the templars were disolved by the pope and the bent king of france they recovered not a penny of templar money.
the tempalrs at the time had more money than the whole of england.thats a lot of money
also most of the high rank templars apart from a few and the grandmaster of templars escaped.
templars loved finace and banking even more than crusades so they ar probally still conected to rich private banks and still hold powerful influence.
chances are they still have connections with the vatican too who are powerful
the vatican may be head of the catholic religion but are also the remains of the roman empire too.they may not have armys citys or politicains but hold much power and influence over the world today.
america is like 200 years old
roman empire throught o vatican in our times is 3000 years old, so they know how to survive in all political enviroments.

Matt_156
01-07-2010, 01:35 PM
urghh how many times do i have to repeat this: i'm not out to convince you guys that the conspiracy theory is silly. if you look at my OP you will see that my main contention with the Animus stuff is that i find it immersion breaking. it encroaches upon this beautifully realized mediaeval world and, for me, is an unnecessary component. the emphasis of a conspiracy that apparently influences every major event in human history including the invention of the lightbulb is not what i love about AC. i started this thread to see if people felt the same way or disagreed, not to quibble about what Venetian Noble's personality is historically accurate or whatever.

i think a lot of the contributions have been well said (meestyna's, jasimin's, most recently) but some of them seem to be degenerating into fanboy mudslinging. paranoid, if you're trying to not be a d-bag, go back to your previous post and analyze how patronizing and sarcastic it is. i'm not the one insulting people, you are. you can disagree with me without being a d*** about it.

hopefully that's out of the way. please, continue to post your reasons why you like or dislike the conspiracy theory.

agentofwraith
01-07-2010, 01:42 PM
if you really want straight gameplay with no animus, buy Altair's Chronicles for the DS and/or AC Bloodlines for the PSP. And if you really want to go the route with no animus, read the book.

DLTyrus
01-07-2010, 01:44 PM
In all fairness, you didn't just say you disliked it, but you call it a lot of things, from superfluous to childish to silly, and that is going to make us defensive from the outset. Especially when you start saying things such as "fanboy mudslinging", these things are just as much insults only less prominent, except for that last example.

And again, the conspiracy scenes are not immersion breaking because they are part of, well, the central theme of the entire game, and if you didn't like that you were never immersed in the first place - well, atleast not in the story. Perhaps you only enjoy the historical atmosphere it creates... well in that case, why finish the story, then come here and bug us by insulting and devauling a storyline that the majority of us here really love?

Matt_156
01-07-2010, 02:42 PM
dude, just don't take it so personally. my opinion should not devalue the story for you. i'm not "bugging" anybody. plenty of people have posted why they like the conspiracy theory without taking it as a personal attack. you don't like what i'm saying, but that's not the same as me bugging people.

it's not for you to say if i'm immersed in a story. all this personal stuff about me and what i like and what kind of game i should be playing is irrelevant. honestly, my problems with the Animus crap don't really detract much from the game for me. They're still 2 of my favorite games ever.

have you ever read a less-than-perfect review of a video game, but the reviewer still gave the game a high score overall? i'm just discussing my own criticism here.

@agentofwraith, is there no Animus in the book?

paranoidparadox
01-07-2010, 02:58 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Matt_156:

i think a lot of the contributions have been well said (meestyna's, jasimin's, most recently) but some of them seem to be degenerating into fanboy mudslinging. paranoid, if you're trying to not be a d-bag, go back to your previous post and analyze how patronizing and sarcastic it is. i'm not the one insulting people, you are. you can disagree with me without being a d*** about it.

QUOTE]yeah, it sure is sarcastic. i don't know if i'd goes as far as insulting. but either way if i hurt your feelings, sorry. keep in mind you did call something i happen to like "childish" (which btw you never pointed out the childish parts of this game, still waiting). which was not a direct insult to anyone here, but just a long way around one. an indirect insult even if you didn't mean it.

so yeah i was being a d***. but i don't know you and you don't know me so why take it so personally. you called something i like childish, so what. i was being a d***, who cares. it's cool man.

Brett_Master5
01-08-2010, 02:12 AM
Without the Animus or the Templar conspiracy theory there would be no story for the world in which the characters are a part of. As Altair you'd be going from one target that Al Maulim tells you to for whatever purpose he deems neccessary at the time.

As someone else has already stated as Ezio you would only go so far as to kill all members of the Pazzi family and those in Florence and Tuscany who killed your family. There would be no Forli, or Venice.

You mentioned that you just wanted it to be set around the Templars and the Assassins war. However, that war has not been raging for just those couple hundred of years in which the games are set. It's war that has been raging since the very creation of Humans, which has allowed a cataclymic event to occur, it may allow one faction to either control and enslave mankind or allow the other faction to save mankind from annihilation.

The conspiracy theory "silliness" IS half of the Assassins Creed series.

The Animus as an immersion breaking tool? Take away the Animus from Assassins Creed, than why are we playing as Altair and Ezio? Because the time periods are cool? No, the Animus is the reason. The Animus gives reason to why Altair and Ezio were ever created by the developers, and a heritage to why Desmond is wanted by his enemies.

The Animus is an immersive tool, and IS the other half of Assassins Creed.

Without them you would just be playing the Hitman series as I stated. A bunch of random assassinations which are loosely tied together by poor and very flawed storyline.

Fenro
01-08-2010, 02:18 AM
An assassin games that doesnt have conspiracy theories in it?

what madnes do you speak of?

assassins are one of the pretty well known secret societys that has realy exixted in the history

i suggest you read this book which was writen by
John Lawrence Reynolds

Secret societies: inside the world's most notorious organizations

The 19-43 pages have some very interesting points about the origins of assassins "the real world assassins"

They have few of the pages in preview mode at books.google.com go check it out, i myself own the book and its an interesting read so say the least.. also nothing in this book is Fiction which is stated at his homepage http://www.wryter.ca/Welcome.html

The Conspiracy theories go hand in hand with any historical game about assassins :P

Matt_156
01-08-2010, 07:55 AM
"Take away the Animus from Assassins Creed, than why are we playing as Altair and Ezio? Because the time periods are cool?"

Brett, yes, that's why! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fenro makes a good point. as far as the conspiracy theory goes, i guess i should amend my complaint. i think a conspiracy theory on a more realistic scale set in the relevant time period would be much easier to swallow. but the fact that it's been expanded to encompass all of human history just so that we, the player, have access to Desmond and the Animus is what i don't like. i just don't think that the sci-fi elements mix with the mediaeval setting. and i find the mediaeval setting to be much more richly developed.

p.s. - not one person has agreed with me so far. there's got to be someone out there who feels the same way!

DLTyrus
01-08-2010, 11:20 AM
The conspiracy theory hasn't been expanded just so that we can play as a guy in the present, the developers didn't go "Hm, a medieval assassin game would be good, but we want a guy in the present day too, so lets make a big conspiracy covering all of history!", rather, the conspiracy was carefully planned and the rest of the characters, time period, and plot were planned around it.

Again, if you don't like the conspiracy, why play it? Once you have unlocked Venice, and you can get to this point without seeing any real sci-fi conspiracy parts of the plot, with the exception of the opening sequence, why not just stop playing the story? You're no longer restricted in any way as you have access to all the game's environments, and continuing on from this point only leads you further into the conspiracy that you find so silly.

While I'm not sure how you would find the plot set in Italy of this game to be good, since it is a direct result of the conspiracy through human history (since its still Templars you're fighting) while disliking any present day scenes, you can still enjoy the environments without completing the plot because the entire plot is completely centered around the conspiracy and nothing, or almost nothing, within the plot itself is historically accurate since characters were either invented or adapted to fit it.

So, if you just enjoy the historical environments, just play those. I don't recommend you buy the next game, though.

TwinIltani
01-08-2010, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Matt_156:
p.s. - not one person has agreed with me so far. there's got to be someone out there who feels the same way!

Hate to break this to you, but I won't be joining the ranks of your supporters either.

I can appreciate what you're saying, however. You don't like the concept of the rather sci-fi Animus being used as the conduit to introduction of a massive conspiracy theory that contains a lot of historical influences. You'd rather play exclusively in a given historical setting, with less of the conspiracy component and more localization.

As DLTyrus pointed out above, you are likely playing the wrong game.

The AC series are not co-sponsored by the History Channel. Ubisoft chose the venue of the Animus to introduce a vast arch of storytelling that spans centuries, countless characters, semi-historical sub plots and, as Fenro noted, a good chunk of actual history. (By the way, Fenro, is that book interesting or what? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif ) I happen to like that entire setting, because other than providing historically recognizable characters and events and a good amount of chuckles (AC2 dialogue, mostly), it also makes me think. It's a rarity that a game manages to drag thoughtfulness out while at the same time delivering countless hours of fun.

To me, the sci-fi component serves as a great way to introduce a few important, historically or otherwise, concepts. Self determination, individual freedom, responsibility for one's own actions, the origin and sustenance of power, the rights and wrongs of the "ends justify the means" way of thinking and last, but certainly not the least, the idea of being a slave to a given ideology and the dangers that it inevitably presents to oneself and to others.

When Desmond is in the Animus, he gets to experience all of that first hand. So do we. It's also not just about experiencing it, but learning from it - and Desmond does take his own lessons from what he witnesses.

In the end, it's a trip through many of humanity's rights and wrongs over the centuries. Concentrating on the vehicle in which you travel through that is, in my opinion, a poor choice to make.

Matt_156
01-08-2010, 07:54 PM
DLT - i play the AC and AC2 because they're two of my favorite games of all time. i play them because i love the gameplay, the graphics, the music, the setting, the style, and all the attention to various details that it would take forever to list. you seem intent on convincing me that i'm somehow making a mistake in playing these games. i'm not.

if i don't like the conspiracy theory, why play it? because a single flaw in an otherwise brilliant IP isn't going to make me trade in my disc. do you really think i opened this discussion because i dislike the Assassin's Creed franchise? i grow weary of addressing these tangential attempts to turn the topic personal. save your recommendations for how i spend my money. stay on the topic please.

if you're suggesting that i shouldn't be able to enjoy the Renaissance setting because, according to the script, it is experienced via the Animus, that's absurd. also, much of the plot is historically accurate. that's common knowledge.

Twin - Ubi did indeed choose the Animus to introduce a story that spans centuries (although i disagree that the characters are "countless"). i'm suggesting that no such device is necessary. the story could easily have been told without ever leaving the relevant time period. and i feel like that would have made the game a lot more fluid and immersive. you make some good points about why you're for the Animus, but don't make same mistake as some others in this thread and assume that i'm harping on the Animus because it's ruining the game for me. that's not at all the case and nowhere in any of my posts did i insinuate otherwise. it's just a criticism meant to spur discussion.

ALTAIRXEZIO
01-10-2010, 08:57 PM
N

i love the conspiracy/sci-fi aspect of the game... to tell you the truth if they didn't have it in the game... i would of never played AC...

but i like it how they mixed all kinds of generes Sci-Fi/Medevil etc. into 1 game and make it a awsome game at that

cause at first your like what Sci-Fi mixed with Medeivl sword fighting what is going on, but then once you play it it is truly amazing.......

omgiof
01-11-2010, 01:51 AM
There are a lot of things I dislike about the story so far, mostly the parts involving DEsmond and his new friends, but I honestly think the whole Abstergo/Templar thing helps keep the game together. For one, it allow Ubisoft to split the games up between multiple Assassins rather than having you play as Altair indefinitely. Now, they probably could have found some other way to do this, but the Animus works just fine. And on top of that, by further removing the player from the Assassin(through the use of Desmond who is, himself, the one playing as the ancestors)Ubisoft gives us a wider view of the Assassin's world and allows us to look at it from certain angles which would not be possible if we were simply playing as Ezio or Altair.

That being said, Ubisoft still should have invested more time into the ancestors, namely Ezio, as they are every bit as important as Desmond.

the amolang
01-11-2010, 02:00 AM
OMG!! I WOULD FREAKIN DIE IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE CONSPIRACY!1!1!!

joking aside, I think that the whole conspiracy makes the series flow together, otherwise we would be looking at a whole series just as one assassin as he uncovers a conspiracy JUST placed in his time frame and area. with the animus you get to see how big and powerful the whole thing is, and you get to enjoy so many more things. People would get bored if they had to play altair in multiple games in the same cities. I think that Ubisoft made a good decision with having the story in modern times as well as historical locations.

Vinak
01-11-2010, 02:58 AM
I found the story interesting until I finished the "truth video" and saw the ending.

that whole premise just blew my suspension of disbelief.

they must of had a brain fart in the science department...all I will say before I risk mentioning possible spoilers.

I still find the general story quite interesting though.

Matt_156
01-11-2010, 11:52 AM
i don't understand where the idea that without the Animus we'd only be playing as Altair comes from. Ezio is Altair's ancestor too, so it seems natural that we should play as him without the need to have Desmond 'recall' him via the Animus. if AC's storyline progressed chronologically in the relevant time periods, there'd be no need for the Animus and, more importantly, no need for this CyberAlienDiety revisionist theology hokum.

my main complaint with the Animus is that it's a constant reminder that the player is not actually in 15th century Italy. it's as though the game itself is trying to break its own immersion. everything from the hexagonal futuristic mini-map to the little digital curly Q's that slashing your sword leaves lingering in the air is AC impinging on its own illusion. the game has such an amazing engine and has rendered these ancient cities so beautifully that the sci-fi elements clash all the more drastically. i know it sounds nitpicky, but i'd love it if the mini-map were textured like parchment or the health bar didn't look like a piece of the U.S.S Enterprise. obviously i play with the UI turned off, and i definitely have to give props to Ubisoft for that option. for anybody whose never tried it, i absolutely recommend it. it's an amazing and unique experience.

one question that has been bugging me: if we're only able to control Ezio via Desmond in the Animus, how come we're able to continue on in the game world after the main mission is complete? Desmond obviously isn't in the Animus anymore (he's on the run with Lucy and her team), so the player is controlling Ezio without him. i'm not complaining, i love this feature. but i don't get it.

TwinIltani
01-11-2010, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by Matt_156:
...no need for this CyberAlienDiety revisionist theology hokum.

As opposed to revisionist theology hokum provided by the real life Vatican? You got offended earlier because people got angry at you and were assuming on your behalf. If you want to have a civilized discussion on a given topic, then phrase your thoughts in a way that's a little less dismissive and a little richer in properly phrased arguments. What I've gleaned from your posts here so far is as follows: "I don't like the sci-fi elements in the AC series. Conspiracy theories are nonsense. I want someone to finally tell me that I'm right." If there's more to the argument you're trying to make, try harder.



one question that has been bugging me: if we're only able to control Ezio via Desmond in the Animus, how come we're able to continue on in the game world after the main mission is complete? Desmond obviously isn't in the Animus anymore (he's on the run with Lucy and her team), so the player is controlling Ezio without him. i'm not complaining, i love this feature. but i don't get it.

Desmond is in the Animus while they're driving to their next destination. After the final sequence, in the truck:

Rebecca: "Here we go. I've got you all hooked up. Got a long drive ahead of us. Figured you might want to play around with the Animus on the way..."

InfernalTyrant
01-11-2010, 07:50 PM
Well, it must be one LOOONG drive! xD

Matt_156
01-11-2010, 07:50 PM
i'm not offended, just not responding to flames. i don't know what makes you think i'm fishing for "someone to finally tell me i'm right." that couldn't be further from what i'm after. i've said it probably 10 times at this point: i'm just opening up the discussion. disagree with me all you like, i'm fine with it!

i guess you're taking offense to the phrase CyberAlienDiety revisionist theology hokum? that's obviously not a personal attack on anybody in this thread. it is dismissive. it is not improperly phrased. i find it rather nicely put, actually. i'm getting tired of repeating myself but i'll say it one more time, i'm not trying to debunk Ubisoft's plot nor am i trying to convince anybody here that the plot sucks. maybe you haven't read all my posts? i'm simply asking what other people think. it's a shame that those three points are all that you've gleaned from my posts so far, because there really is a lot more.

thanks for answering my question, but don't be so frickin hostile. i realize that my criticism is not popular but at least i'm not making unfounded assumptions about the other people in this thread. where did you get the idea that "I want someone to finally tell me that I'm right," anyway?

phil.llllll
01-12-2010, 01:07 AM
I do think they went a little overboard with the conspiracy stuff in AC2 (particularly the truth letters and such) and as a result did seem a bit silly. It's like they felt the need to countlessly spell out (in big bold letters) something that they made known to use in AC1.

Matt_156
01-12-2010, 08:49 AM
thank you!