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jsoldano
02-02-2005, 02:15 PM
Is there any mission built about the splashing of Admiral Yamamoto's Betty by a flight of P38 over New Guinea, in an extremely lucky and well coordinated USAAF mission ?

papaboon
02-02-2005, 02:20 PM
If I remember correctly, there was one called "Hunting Brass" or "Attack on Admiral Yamamoto"???? Check http://www.il2missions.com
May be a good place to start!

Capt._Tenneal
02-02-2005, 02:23 PM
Here's another one :

http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_singlemissions_eurofinn.htm

Scroll down until you get to the mission called Get Yamamoto !. Although, it uses the online Pacific map that was with AEP since PF wasn't released yet. Some aircraft might have been substituted for the Betty too.

ZappaTime
02-02-2005, 04:12 PM
You could do a QMB - if I remember right (it was on the UKTV History channel only a week or so ago!):-

6 Zeros accommpanied the 2 Bettys (1 with Yamamoto on board and the other with his no1 onboard).

There were 18 P38s - made up of 4 in the main attack group (2 of which dropped out early on through mechanical problems, so there was only 16 in total effectively), 6 as backup at 5000 feet and the remaining 8 riding shotgun at about 20,000 feet. Don't quote me on this, though I'm sure the split was 2, 6, & 8 (but you can't split a sides altitude in QMB anyway).

I remember thinking at the time 'this would make a nice mission'. The programme didn't mention how the Zeros faired, but Yamamotos Betty was damaged and crashed in the jungle and I think the other Betty hit the drink big time. They were easy pickings!
Z

jorgesoo
02-02-2005, 08:50 PM
I dont know how to make an QMB, but I wonder if somebody capable can make an historically updated PF mission on the same theme, with Betty's and not IL4 Russian bombers, and with the new New Guinea map, in replace of the actually available IL2/FB/AEP missions.-

chris455
02-02-2005, 09:11 PM
The maps over which most of the mission was flown, as well as the location of the actual shootdown, is not to be found in PF. Sorry.

initjust
02-03-2005, 12:38 AM
The mission to kill Yamamoto was more about pilotage than it was about combat.

The P-38s flew at 50' until they were just a few miles off the coast of Bougainville. As they began their climb to altitude they spotted the Zeros and the Bettys.

Prior to the mission Major Mitchell swapped the USAAF compass in his P-38 for a USN compass because he didn't think the USAAF compass was accurate enough for such a demanding flight.

An historically accurate "Kill Yamamoto" mission would be much too boring for the majority of the combat flight sim community.

However, if anyone is interested I have a copy of the actual flight plan of the P-38s and the expected flight path of Yamamoto's group. The outbound flight from Henderson to Bougainville is about 2.5 hours (more or less depending on speed) and I am here to tell you that flying for 2 hours at 50' trying to hold a steady course and speed while watching the time to the next waypoint is a tedious thing.

But, if you get to the intercept point on time AND the Bettys get there on time it is pretty satisfying.

If the Bettys aren't where you think they should be then you have to try and sort out whether or not you screwed up your flight timing or messed up on one or more of the legs and if you're early or late and then which way to go looking for the Bettys.

Some would call this boring but it is definitely immersive and it is entirely possible to fly a mission like this and never fire a single round or see an enemy ac.

If you do not include the pilotage aspects/requirements of the actual mission to kill Yamamoto a recreation may well be nothing more than a furball with the right mix of ac.

jorgesoo
02-03-2005, 11:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by papaboon:
If I remember correctly, there was one called "Hunting Brass" or "Attack on Admiral Yamamoto"???? Check http://www.il2missions.com
May be a good place to start! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldnt find a downloads section at that site.- I tried also to register myself, but had not received my password.-

jorgesoo
02-03-2005, 11:41 AM
It is a fact that the shootdown place was the island of Bougainville which is not present at the PF New Guinea map.- But in spite of that, I think that map can still be used to recreate the mission at the cost of loosing some historical accuracy.-
Also, the long and boring flight over the ocean can be overcome by shortening the legs and using the new PF warp function.-

initjust
02-03-2005, 12:02 PM
Yes you could use the warp function to overcome the long distance flight but the really amazing thing about the real mission is that they managed to fly such a long distance and so accurately follow the flight plan and find Yamamoto right where the inteligence said he would be when he would be there.

If you do not want to actually incorporate the challenge of the flight distance then you might as well build the mission with a much shorter distance and not even worry about needing to use the warp function.

You could simply start the P-38s 30nm, or so, from the coast of any island and set the Bettys to fly along the coast of the same island at about 5,000'.

jorgesoo
02-03-2005, 12:12 PM
Initjust
Can you send me the flight plans ?
Thanks
soldano@sinectis.com.ar

Capt._Tenneal
02-03-2005, 12:43 PM
Because of hindsight, I'm afraid recreating the luck on the timing of the interception will be hard to pull off. If you make a mission with the exact flight plans, the Americans can just loiter around the interception point in case the Betty's are late with the assurance that they will eventually show up.

rustbucket
02-03-2005, 01:02 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by papaboon:
If I remember correctly, there was one called "Hunting Brass" or "Attack on Admiral Yamamoto"???? Check http://www.il2missions.com
May be a good place to start!

there is an Air warrior 3 Yamamoto attack mission with p38's

initjust
02-03-2005, 01:11 PM
Sure they could do that if that was their goal and all they were interested in was shooting down the Bettys.

If the objective is something more say, recreating the challenge of making the flight, that changes the way the players behave. Additionally, they may not really know if they were early or late if the Bettys weren't where they were thought to be.

But you are correct with respect to the hind-sight comment. It definitely takes away from the surprise. But then there is little chance for any real surprise in the way most on-line games are structured. It is an almost certain gurantee that there will be combat so the element of surprise is really non-existant.

This is why I think the value in recreating the Yamamoto mission is in the challenge of actually flying the same distance following the same waypoints and seeing if you can get to the intercept point on time and coincident witht he Bettys. The combat aspect of it is really a much lower priority.

initjust
02-03-2005, 01:16 PM
Jorge,

Check you email.

Spudinsky
02-03-2005, 02:45 PM
A long time ago I saw an interview on TV with the pilot who actually fired the burst that took out Yamamoto. If I remember right, I think he said it was the burst he fired just to clear his guns before starting the attack - it was pure luck that it actually hit the Betty! Does anyone else remember that?

La-5FAN
02-03-2005, 07:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ZappaTime:

There were 18 P38s - made up of 4 in the main attack group (2 of which dropped out early on through mechanical problems, so there was only 16 in total effectivelyZ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought they ran out of fuel. Or is that counted as "mechanical failure"?

initjust
02-03-2005, 08:16 PM
There were problems with 2 of the P-38s.

One, piloted by Mclanahan blew a tire on take-off and another piloted by Moore had problems with the external fuel tanks feeding.

WTE_Wombat
02-04-2005, 06:53 AM
I have made this mission as historically as I can and the WTE guys gave it the thumbs up.

If you give me your e-mail addy I will send it to you.

jorgesoo
02-04-2005, 07:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Wombat:
I have made this mission as historically as I can and the WTE guys gave it the thumbs up.

If you give me your e-mail addy I will send it to you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please send it to soldano@sinectis.com.ar
Thanks

WTE_Wombat
02-05-2005, 06:49 AM
Done http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VF51_Flatspin
02-05-2005, 10:12 PM
Initjust, please check your PM.

Thanks!

initjust
02-05-2005, 10:34 PM
Flatspin,

You've got mail.

Capt._Tenneal
03-10-2005, 02:50 PM
A book just out on the Yamamoto mission :

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0312309066.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Might be an interesting read.

Blackdog5555
03-10-2005, 04:07 PM
LUCK! some luck but fantastic code breaking and superb flying. perfect timing.