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View Full Version : Chivalry by Pilots on WW2....



MB_Avro_UK
12-21-2006, 06:31 PM
Hi all,

I have a signed print by Bob Doe who was a R.A.F. Spitfire pilot during the Battle of Britain.

The picture relates to him chasing a 109 towards France from England over the English Channel.

He had damaged the 109 and saw that the pilot was preparing to ditch in the sea.He hung back to allow the German pilot to ditch. Bob Doe has said that he could not kill an enemy pilot in this situation http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif.

The German pilot survived the ditching and was picked-up by a German E-Boat. The German pilot went on to score victories against the R.A.F.

The German pilot's wife wrote to Bob Doe after the war and thanked him for saving her husband's life.

Pic.1.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/MB_Avro/2006-12-22002.jpg

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

MB_Avro_UK
12-21-2006, 06:32 PM
2.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/MB_Avro/2006-12-22011.jpg

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

MB_Avro_UK
12-21-2006, 06:33 PM
3.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/MB_Avro/2006-12-22009.jpg

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

MB_Avro_UK
12-21-2006, 06:34 PM
4.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/MB_Avro/2006-12-22008-1.jpg

Any thoughts...??

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Airmail109
12-21-2006, 06:36 PM
Nice of his wife to write him a letter, did the German pilot survive the war?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Megile : "Hey it's not technically spamming if its on different forums right?"

MB_Avro_UK
12-21-2006, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
Nice of his wife to write him a letter, did the German pilot survive the war?

Yes he survived the war and from memory he died in the 1970s.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

waffen-79
12-21-2006, 06:46 PM
awesome story!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p32/Waffen-79/forum_signature.jpg
You need blokes like me to fly Blue side!
Banning Planes OnLine? NOT COOL, M'KAY?

berg417448
12-21-2006, 06:54 PM
Saburo Sakai's mercy over Java jungle:

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/sakai/sakai.htm

MB_Avro_UK
12-21-2006, 06:58 PM
Hi all,

Here's a link to Bob Doe. He is alive and well and lives in southern England.

http://www.battle-of-britain.com/BoB2/Battle_personnel/Profiles/RAF/doe.htm

I have a signed book from Bob Doe in my collection http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

BillyTheKid_22
12-21-2006, 06:59 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Wow!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://members.cox.net/bkid/pacificfighters/p39.jpg

.................................................. ..............

"All I got was a bellyful of English Channel."

HayateAce
12-21-2006, 07:34 PM
I wonder what the widows (if any) of the later RAF victims would write to mr Doe? Would you even be able to communicate to an enemy pilot to turn his plane around and ditch/bail over your home turf?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://aerofiles.com/lock-p38j.jpg

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freiw44
12-21-2006, 09:01 PM
"he could not kill an enemy pilot in this situation"

That almost sounds like he did him a favor. As if it was common practice to just unload at aircraft whos canopy clearly jettisons.

The way they fly there is also a bit strange, standard bailout procedure for bf-109 would be to turn it upside down.

Nice stuff anyway.

Edit:
AND they aree flying way low for a bailout, look at the shadows.

Treetop64
12-21-2006, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
The German pilot's wife wrote to Bob Doe after the war and thanked him for saving her husband's life.


I think "sparing" her husband's life would be more appropriate! Great story nonetheless.

Reminds me of a story about a P-47 flown by Lt. Robert Johnson (Half Pint) that met much of the business end of the guns from not one, but two FW-190s. Though it was shot up badly the Replublic continued to fly - albeit in a greatly deteriorated physical condition. A cannon round exploded in the cockpit, another struck the rear part of the canopy, jamming it shut. After expending all of its ammunition in attempts to down the P-47, one of the FWs flew alongside the battered Republic, saluted the American, then flew off.

Lt. Johnson RTB'ed safely, and after recovering from his wounds he went on to score 28 victories. He survived the war. Half Pint never flew again.

I think chivalry of this nature would have never occured between the Russians and Germans on the Eastern front...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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"I take off like an epileptic squirrel being attacked by bees. I fly with the equivalant grace of a circus elephant with a compressed airhose shoved up my ***, and to add icing to the cake that is the disgraceful paroxysm of my uncoordinated spasmodic ballet: I have yet to land without flipping the plane over on its canopy. How's that for style?" -- Sobriquet

Esel1964
12-21-2006, 09:47 PM
Reminds me of the Franz Stigler/Charlie Brown (http://www.afa.org/magazine/valor/0197valor.asp) story.

These are good stories considering the time of year is synonymous with giving(representing the gifts bestowed from above),they're stories of giving the ultimate gift-life.
Inspiring,indeed.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/DMFesel/200px-Bomber.jpg

Lyrics from Naked Raygun's "Rat Patrol".
"What we need to take control,we could use the Rat Patrol.What's that coming over the dune?...
Chasing the halftracks across the sandflats,got a nice pine box,for that desert fox,machine guns blaring,and Arabs staring wondering why,the Westerners are there.It's the same old story,and it'll happen again."

Esel1964
12-21-2006, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
4.


Any thoughts...??

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

BTW,Great print!!!
My best print is one of the Stigler/Brown encounter signed by both-as they're now good friends and get together whenever possible.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/DMFesel/200px-Bomber.jpg

Lyrics from Naked Raygun's "Rat Patrol".
"What we need to take control,we could use the Rat Patrol.What's that coming over the dune?...
Chasing the halftracks across the sandflats,got a nice pine box,for that desert fox,machine guns blaring,and Arabs staring wondering why,the Westerners are there.It's the same old story,and it'll happen again."

slo_1_2_3
12-21-2006, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by freiw44:
"he could not kill an enemy pilot in this situation"

That almost sounds like he did him a favor. As if it was common practice to just unload at aircraft whos canopy clearly jettisons.

The way they fly there is also a bit strange, standard bailout procedure for bf-109 would be to turn it upside down.

Nice stuff anyway.

Edit:
AND they aree flying way low for a bailout, look at the shadows.
I believe they said "ditch" as in water landing , so why would he wanna do that upside down?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

You can run, but you'll only die tired... . . . .:
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BillyTheKid_22
12-21-2006, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by Esel1964:
Reminds me of the Franz Stigler/Charlie Brown (http://www.afa.org/magazine/valor/0197valor.asp) story.

These are good stories considering the time of year is synonymous with giving(representing the gifts bestowed from above),they're stories of giving the ultimate gift-life.
Inspiring,indeed.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif I did read it!! Wow!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://members.cox.net/bkid/pacificfighters/p39.jpg

.................................................. ..............

"All I got was a bellyful of English Channel."

HayateAce
12-21-2006, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Treetop64:
Reminds me of a story about a P-47 flown by Lt. Robert Johnson (Half Pint) that met much of the business end of the guns from not one, but two FW-190s. Though it was shot up badly the Replublic continued to fly - albeit in a greatly deteriorated physical condition. A cannon round exploded in the cockpit, another struck the rear part of the canopy, jamming it shut. After expending all of its ammunition in attempts to down the P-47, one of the FWs flew alongside the battered Republic, saluted the American, then flew off.



If you read Robert S. Johnson's book, you will see a different story. What Johnson thought at the time was a wing-waggle salute from the 190 pilot, turned out to be the beginnings of a line-up for not one, but TWO more passes on the stricken P47. Johnson deduced that the 190 had run out of 20mm cannon, because the last 2 passes were very careful, calculated MG bursts. Each time, the LW pilot would pull alongside to scratch his head in wonder, only to peel away for another try.

That is not a chivalrous act. The LW guy simply couldn't knock the Jug down. Bet he wishes he had.

http://www.leisuregalleries.com/johnsonrs810.jpg <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://aerofiles.com/lock-p38j.jpg

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Treetop64
12-21-2006, 10:38 PM
I got the info from Flying Aces - Aviation Art of World War II. The author describes the story on page 67, with a painting depicting the incident on page 66. He referes to Johnson's Autobio Thunderbolt! when describing the story, but perhaps he got it wrong?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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(^^) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny onto your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
------------------------------
"It breaks my heart, but I am almost certain that raaaid will get the Nobel Prize in physics before we get the Avenger in PF."
-- Zeus-cat
------------------------------
"I take off like an epileptic squirrel being attacked by bees. I fly with the equivalant grace of a circus elephant with a compressed airhose shoved up my ***, and to add icing to the cake that is the disgraceful paroxysm of my uncoordinated spasmodic ballet: I have yet to land without flipping the plane over on its canopy. How's that for style?" -- Sobriquet

Mysticpuma2003
12-22-2006, 12:37 AM
This is the Robert Johnson story which I have nearly completed as an IL2 movie, a worthy subject:

Early in the morning forty-eight Thunderbolts took off from the advanced base at Manston. Having previously been criticized for going off on his own, this morning Johnson resolved to stay in formation. The three squadrons of the 56th Fighter Group were all up: the 61st (Johnson's), 62nd, and 63rd. Before the mission, Johnson felt the cold fear that he always felt, and which he was able to channel into higher alertness. They flew up, over the Channel, into France, and soon spotted sixteen Fw-190s. Before Johnson could communicate or coordinate with his flight, he was hit. 20mm cannon shells ripped through his plane, smashing the canopy, punching holes in the plane, and inspiring in Johnson an overwhelming urge to bail out. More explosions smashed the plane, and Johnson's frantic "Mayday!" calls drew no response. Fire began to envelope the cockpit.

The Thunderbolt spun crazily out of his control and the twisted and jammed canopy frame resisted his repeated, superhuman, full-body efforts to open it. As he struggled vainly with the canopy, the engine fire miraculously went out, but he could hardly see, as oil spewed back from the battered engine. He tried to squeeze out through the broken glass of the canopy, but the opening was just too small for both him and his chute. Trapped inside the P-47, he next decided to try to crash-land and evade. He turned the plane south, toward Spain - the recommended evasion route. After struggling with hypoxia and hallucinations(?), his thoughts came back into focus and he realized that the aircraft was still flying fairly well. He headed back for England, counting on his high altitude to help him make a long, partially-powered glide back home.

The instrument panel was shattered. The wind constantly blew more oil and hydraulic fluid into his cut up face and eyes. He had neglected to wear his goggles that morning, and any attempt to rub his eyes burned worse than ever. He and his plane were horribly shot up, but incredibly he was still alive. He made for the Channel, desperate to escape the heavily defended enemy territory.

Swiveling constantly, he froze in horror as he spotted a plane approaching him, an Fw-190, beautifully painted in blue with a yellow cowling. Johnson was totally helpless, and just had to wait for the German to get him in his sights and open up. The German closed in, taking his time with the crippled American fighter. Johnson hunched down behind his armor-plated seat, to await the inevitable. The German opened up, spraying the plane with 30-caliber machine gun fire, not missing, just pouring lead into the battered Thunderbolt. Johnson kicked his rudder left and right, slowing his plane to a crawl, and fired back as the German sped out in front of him.

The Focke-Wulf easily avoided the gunfire from the half-blinded Johnson, and circled back, this time pulling level with him. The pilot examined the shattered Thunderbolt all over, looking it up and down, and shook his head in mystification. He banked, pulled up behind Johnson again, and opened up with another burst. Somehow the rugged Republic-built aircraft stayed in the air. The German pulled alongside again, as they approached the southern coast of the Channel. Still flying, Johnson realized how fortunate it was that the German found him after his heavy 20mm cannons were empty.

As they went out over the Channel, the German get behind and opened up again, but the P-47 kept flying. Then he pulled up alongside, rocked his wings in salute, and flew off, before they reached the English coast. Johnson had survived the incredible, point-blank machine gun fire, but still had to land the plane. He contacted Mayday Control by radio, who instructed him to climb if he can. The battered plane climbed, and after more communication, headed for his base at Manston. Landing was touch and go, as he had no idea if the landing gear would work. The wheels dropped down and locked and he landed safely.


Cheers, MP.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/Mysticpuma.jpg

Heliopause
12-22-2006, 01:00 AM
My sig..<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/PauseHelio/fokker_now.jpg
"Once (I think it was 31st aug. 1940), I was in a fight with four Hurricanes over Dover.
I was back over the channel when I saw another Hurricane coming from Calais, trailing white smoke, obviously in a bad way.
I flew up alongside him and escorted him all the way to England and waved goodbye.
A few weeks later the same thing happened to me.
That would never have happened in Russia - never". (Erich Rudorffer - 109 pilot)

Bremspropeller
12-22-2006, 01:02 AM
That is not a chivalrous act. The LW guy simply couldn't knock the Jug down. Bet he wishes he had.

If it was you flying the Jug, he'd have downed it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2369/toryusig4me.jpg

HayateAce
12-22-2006, 01:05 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://aerofiles.com/lock-p38j.jpg

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MB_Avro_UK
12-22-2006, 02:10 PM
hi all,

I forgot to mention that Bob Doe was the 3rd highest scoring RAF pilot during the Battle of Britain.(July to October 1940 IIRC).

He had destroyed a number of LW aircraft in this period but IMHO hesitated to kill a target that was now a pilot and no longer a machine.

Perhaps he saw the 109 pilot as the equivalent to a pilot who had bailed out...????

This link has Bob Doe talking about his experiences during the Battle of Britain. He narates (after Churchill!) and is the guy wearing the glasses.

(Link thanks to our ol' friend Pingu! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif)

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/bobmovie/thx1138BOB.wmv

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Hanglands
12-22-2006, 02:26 PM
Youre one lucky man MB_Avro, I wish I had that sig in my collection.

A fab print from a very good artist. You shold get it framed by pro's. Cost in region of ??45 as a guess, but would set it off as it deserves.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/logoHH.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/hanglands/)

LStarosta
12-22-2006, 02:28 PM
Ask the Poles about what chivalry meant to them in the air...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

_____________________________

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MB_Avro_UK
12-22-2006, 02:35 PM
Hi Hanglands,

I think you're right http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Bob Doe may not be around for much longer and it would be best to preserve this historic item by framing.

As I mentioned above, I have his signed autobiography. What would be the best way to preserve it?

I have seen him interviewed a few times in recent years and he seem to be a very modest and an unassuming chap.He represents a generation that will soon be gone.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

MB_Avro_UK
12-22-2006, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
Ask the Poles about what chivalry meant to them in the air...

Hi LStarosta,

I understand what you are saying. But Britain was not invaded by the Nazis and I suspect that is why Bob Doe and other British/Commonwealth pilots had a different attitude.

Polish Pilots from for example RAF 303 Squadron had a different attitude during the Battle of Britain. They were the highest scoring squadron during the Battle of Britain.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

LStarosta
12-22-2006, 02:43 PM
That's all I'm sayin'

I find it fascinating how many British pilots perceived the air war as an almost gentleman's game, which is much different for pilots who had their homes invaded etc.

The war was so complex and different to everyone who was involved in it. I guess that's what makes so fascinating to us over 60 years later.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

_____________________________

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Ruy Horta
12-22-2006, 02:49 PM
Filter Caidin from Johnson, the Ghostwriter did his fair share of making a good story...

Some of us are killers, some of us are human. Some of us will enjoy killing some of us will not. Luckily there is a difference, sometimes we even have a choice.

Pingel wasn''t a bad guy, so things even out pretty well.

Thanks for posting this.

As for HayataAce: lets hope you'll always encounter the right type of people...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
Ruy Horta

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7748/signaturecommunismih6.png

MB_Avro_UK
12-23-2006, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
That's all I'm sayin'

I find it fascinating how many British pilots perceived the air war as an almost gentleman's game, which is much different for pilots who had their homes invaded etc.

The war was so complex and different to everyone who was involved in it. I guess that's what makes so fascinating to us over 60 years later.

Bump....

Lucius_Esox
12-23-2006, 05:53 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

SeaFireLIV
12-23-2006, 06:17 PM
British vs german = Gentlemanly.

Italian versus British = Gentelmanly.

Polish versus german = No quarter given.

Russain versus german = No quarter given.

USA versus Japanese = No quarter given.

USA versus German = Very rare that any quarter was given.


Interesting to see how views differed, but war has many dance partners.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

"If it burns, it is confirmed."

Ivan Lukich Zvyagin

MB_Avro_UK
12-23-2006, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
British vs german = Gentlemanly.

Italian versus British = Gentelmanly.

Polish versus german = No quarter given.

Russain versus german = No quarter given.

USA versus Japanese = No quarter given.

USA versus German = Very rare that any quarter was given.


Interesting to see how views differed, but war has many dance partners.

SeaFire...ol'chap...

You are on dangerous ground http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Nelson would have approved....

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Phas3e
12-23-2006, 09:00 PM
I have been apart of two acts of chivalry playing IL2 online, I escorted a Mustang with a dieing engine once untill his mates decided to head towards me, I decided to head for home.
Once I had a 109 ecort my Damaged P38 (no rudder or elevator control) all the way back to my base.
these were on a small friendly New Zealand server where we are all locals but it was still nice to see.

zugfuhrer
12-24-2006, 01:15 AM
Strange
http://www.luftwaffe.cz/pingel.html
doesnt confirm this story

Alexmcfire
12-24-2006, 01:41 AM
Some purely economical aspect to it, I don??t think the pilots had unlimited amount of bullets, so I would call it "preserve" of limited resources, why waste bullets on a plane that was about to crash anyway? Bullets perhaps urgently needed later on the day?

Aaron_GT
12-24-2006, 02:07 AM
Polish Pilots from for example RAF 303 Squadron had a different attitude during the Battle of Britain. They were the highest scoring squadron during the Battle of Britain.

In Britain we owe a huge debt to the Poles and Czechs (highest scoring pilot in the Battle of Britain was Czech) for what happened during the Battle of Britain and we in the UK should not forget it.

hamselv2
12-24-2006, 03:06 AM
Set up the in-game feature DeviceLink.

One main thread:

http://forums.<b style="color:black;background-color:#a0ffff">ubi[/b].com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/7201027043 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/7201027043)