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View Full Version : X-45 vs MSFT FF2 advantages? Not sure they exist



XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 02:56 PM
I bought a Saitek X-45, principally because of the continual discussions about HOTAS being the answer to joystick control for combat flight sims.

I've been working with the X-45 now for about 30 hours and to be honest...I'm thinking of going back to my MSFT FF2.

My reasoning process to buy it:

1) The hotas rotary switches could help with the CEM.

2) The 2 each POV 8 position hatswitches would be great for Jet sims, since you practically fly fastmovers with trim anyway. I found most of the Jet simmers are programming the POV just like we are, and using the second hat switch for everything "BUT trim control".

3) The rudder rocker might be more capable and less confusing to use, which is not the case for me afterall. The twist handle rudder control with the FF2 is second nature to me now, and a non-issue for me.

4) The HOTAS profile editor would be a big improvement over the MSFT FF2 controller, which doesn't appear to be the case.

5) I understand the X-45 would be a much better stick for LOMAC, F4 and Jane's FA-18, or more particularly JET combat flight sims. So... I thought, "get it now before Lomac comes out and get used to it."

6) The X-45 has more buttons of different types than the FF2, but to be honest I'm not sure they make things that more efficient. I'm thinking in terms of IL2-FB. In fact, since I use an X-keys keystroke caching controller I think the X-keys and FF2 combination are a superior combination.

7) The size and amount of space the two units take up is pretty significant. I guess I just didn't visualize well enough that I'd have to make major changes in the way my system is setup to accomodate the keyboard, trackball, joysticks, x-key and headphones.

The CRUX of this posting. I'd appreciate hearing some constructive comments from other users, that have experience with sticks like the FF2 or the FF2 vs the X-45 hotas. I'm thinking I'll just take it back. First,I'd just like to give it a fair appraisal before I just shuck it.

It would really help to read from other users of the X-45 some over-powering reasons to keep it, even if the IL2-FB might not be the best and highest use for the X-45.

I'm not raggin' on the X-45, hope it doesn't sound that way.

------------------- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 02:56 PM
I bought a Saitek X-45, principally because of the continual discussions about HOTAS being the answer to joystick control for combat flight sims.

I've been working with the X-45 now for about 30 hours and to be honest...I'm thinking of going back to my MSFT FF2.

My reasoning process to buy it:

1) The hotas rotary switches could help with the CEM.

2) The 2 each POV 8 position hatswitches would be great for Jet sims, since you practically fly fastmovers with trim anyway. I found most of the Jet simmers are programming the POV just like we are, and using the second hat switch for everything "BUT trim control".

3) The rudder rocker might be more capable and less confusing to use, which is not the case for me afterall. The twist handle rudder control with the FF2 is second nature to me now, and a non-issue for me.

4) The HOTAS profile editor would be a big improvement over the MSFT FF2 controller, which doesn't appear to be the case.

5) I understand the X-45 would be a much better stick for LOMAC, F4 and Jane's FA-18, or more particularly JET combat flight sims. So... I thought, "get it now before Lomac comes out and get used to it."

6) The X-45 has more buttons of different types than the FF2, but to be honest I'm not sure they make things that more efficient. I'm thinking in terms of IL2-FB. In fact, since I use an X-keys keystroke caching controller I think the X-keys and FF2 combination are a superior combination.

7) The size and amount of space the two units take up is pretty significant. I guess I just didn't visualize well enough that I'd have to make major changes in the way my system is setup to accomodate the keyboard, trackball, joysticks, x-key and headphones.

The CRUX of this posting. I'd appreciate hearing some constructive comments from other users, that have experience with sticks like the FF2 or the FF2 vs the X-45 hotas. I'm thinking I'll just take it back. First,I'd just like to give it a fair appraisal before I just shuck it.

It would really help to read from other users of the X-45 some over-powering reasons to keep it, even if the IL2-FB might not be the best and highest use for the X-45.

I'm not raggin' on the X-45, hope it doesn't sound that way.

------------------- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 03:14 PM
Well I can't answer your question directly as I never had an FFB/twist grip joystick. I went form a joystick, (generic, 3 axix, 4 button job) to an X-45. It's taken some getting used to but even though the X-45 looks a little futuristic, it is more immersive to me than reaching down to a keyboard to push buttons. I like being able to have every game command literaly at my fingertips.
But I can imagine it would be difficult coming from a twist rudder and FFB to this format.

Bearcat 99 will soon post which his unique answer. Look for it. You may keep the X-45.

At least you gave the HOTAS a shot.




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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 03:17 PM
I have been told you can use the MS FFB along with the throttle from the X-45. The best of both worlds. I was planning on doing just this actually, assuming I was not told wrong.

Your Post Could Not Be Completed Because:

Board is busy currently unable to post.

Please make any needed corrections and try again.

Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 03:24 PM
I have both an X-45 and an FF2. The mechanical action of the X-45 is a bit crude after you're used to the super-smooth FF2, but it just has so many extra buttons and twiddles that when I go back to the FF2 for a change I find it very frustrating.

On my X-45 set up, I have the three different fields of view mapped to one hat switch and padlock commands mapped to the other (I use a TIR so no need to use the hats for view directions). The little trigger button on the very front of the stick is set for toggle gunsight view. The throttle has buttons and wheels mapped for flaps, prop pitch, radiator settings and rudder trim. Apart from raising and lowering the gear I hardly need to touch the keyboard and it all feels incredibly intuitive. When I gp back to the FF2, it feels like a step backwards.

Of course, you can combine the X-45 throttle with the FF2 and just ignore the X-45 stick, or even use the X-45 stick as a button bay to go alongaside the X-45 throttle and FF2.

Incidentally, what made the X-45 useable for me was sticking it to the desk with blu-tack (poster putty) - it's too light and slides all over the place in a very annoying manner otherwise.

Regards,

RocketDog.

PS - the rudder rocker is ABSOLUTELY USELESS. I bit the bullet and bought some CH Pro pedals. If I had to try and use the X-45's rudder rocker switch I would just send it straight back to the shop. A horrible design flaw on Saitek's part.

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 03:58 PM
You've answered your own question. Do what others like myself and BearCat99 do: use the MS FFB2 stick as your joystick and the X45 throttle for CEM. It's a great combo and cheaper than a CH Throttle to boot.

Use the Saitek rudder rocker for flaps.




Jet

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 04:14 PM
Yet another one here who uses FFB2 stick with the X45 throttle..........great set up,
prefer it to FFB2+CH pedals+CH pro throttle

I have taken 1 step further .....stripped down the X45 stick and made a switch box from the base, giving me back a couple of rotaries and 3 double throw switches ( not got the hat switches integrated yet )
I place this under the throttle unit

Wiring diagram for switches available if anyone interested


S~ Sly

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 04:18 PM
I use the setup that some of the previous posters have mentioned. If you have CH pedals I have what I think is an excellent combo profile on the website in my sig. Just go to the downloads page. If you still have the MSFFB there is no reason why you should ever have to use your keyboard to fl again. The X45 stick makes an excellent button bay. I use that rocker for flaps. If you use my profile just make sure you read the readme file with it and assign the key commands accordingly. If you dont have pedals you might want to change a few things. You could just put your rudder on the twist handle. My twist handle is set for rudder trim. I find the flaps on the rocker to be very usefull... I also have all my lights,gear,droptanks,autopilot and a few other things on the X45. Let me know if you try it and like it. There are actually two profiles..one for MS and another for Saitek. Just put them in the appropriate folders and assign your keys from the list in the readme. If you just have that X45 stick sitting on your desk you are missing out. If you do use the priofile remember the viewing system is on the mouse button. Also keep in mind that the black button is used for CTRL or SHIFT depending on the mode. (9 O'clock position on MSFFB hat switch is mapped to F2 hence CTRL+F2 or SHIFT+F2 etc..). I have dioscovered since i started fiddling around with the Mes that I may have to add another command for prop pitch auto/manual... but for now pitch is on the throttle of the MSFFB.

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Message Edited on 10/30/0310:25AM by Bearcat99

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 04:21 PM
I don't like the X45..looks like a 80's stick or a flour sifter.

I use the MSFFB2 and CH Pro Throttle USB (added because of FB) and it was the right buy. I wouldn't want an extra joystick on my desk. The CH Pro throttle could be better (like any controller could it seems) but it does the job satisfactorily.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 04:43 PM
Please do, I'm sure I'm not the only one who is interested in what you have done with the X45 to create a button box.



Jet

http://www.jg53-pikas.de/IIE.Staffel-large.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 09:14 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I don't like the X45..looks like a 80's stick or a
- flour sifter.
-
- I use the MSFFB2 and CH Pro Throttle USB (added
- because of FB) and it was the right buy. I wouldn't
- want an extra joystick on my desk. The CH Pro
- throttle could be better (like any controller could
- it seems) but it does the job satisfactorily.

--------------- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Could you share a little more about the FF2 & CH Pro Throttle setup? How it goes together etc.

I've decided the Rudder is too big an issue for me. I don't want floor pedals. I'm comfortably competent enough with the twist rudder on the FF2. The X-45 Rudder is just not at all comfortable for me...not saying I couldn't get it down after some use. It's just that it don't suit me now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'm interested to know about the integration and working with the two controller softwares. Maybe I should say...does it take a friggin system genius to get this combo to work correctly.

---------------------- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 06:59 AM
I use an X45 + MS FF2. I think the X45 throttle is cheaper and better than the CH one. The CH one does not have nobs on it like the X45 which are great for trim and other things. Why get the more expensive throttle with less functionality when you already have one that has more features and cost less. Just use your existing X45 throttle and MS FF2 stick together. No specialy wizardry need just have them both plugged in and use IL2's hotas screen to configure the axis. You can use both Saitek's and MS profile software together.

s!

:FI:SnoopBaron

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Tully__
10-31-2003, 02:10 PM
I've never used an M$ or an FFB stick, but I keep my X45 because:

- unlike other sticks it hasn't broken yet
- it has VERY flexible profiling options
- it doesn't have to be re-configured frequently
- the features per $$$ rating is very good


I'm also used to it now and would have a hard time adapting to other sticks. It's the only one to have lasted past about 6-8 months without developing a spike in at least one axis. Since I aquired it my housemate has been through 3 or 4 sticks due to axis spiking problems.

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Salut
Tully

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 02:29 PM
I'm using the FFB stick and non Pro pedals (haven't yet
got round to adding a slider module to the game port).

I got the FFB recently, but I am not sure I actually like
it. It seems problematic in XP (works for some, not for
others) with the FFB software, and the effects are overdone
by default, and not all games have adequate control. Also
the force feedback sometimes seems to briefly let go and
then grab the stick back, which is odd. I am tempted to
go back to my non FFB Precision Pro stick.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 02:49 PM
Snoop_Baron wrote:
- I use an X45 + MS FF2. I think the X45 throttle is
- cheaper and better than the CH one. The CH one does
- not have nobs on it like the X45 which are great for
- trim and other things. Why get the more expensive
- throttle with less functionality when you already
- have one that has more features and cost less. Just
- use your existing X45 throttle and MS FF2 stick
- together. No specialy wizardry need just have them
- both plugged in and use IL2's hotas screen to
- configure the axis. You can use both Saitek's and
- MS profile software together.
-
-------------------------
Snoop_Baron:

The X-45 throttle has a serial plug in, and is setup to plug into the X-45 joystick. When you say just have them plugged in do you mean...have two sticks plugged in and basically put one under the table. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif or can I plug the throttle plug into a serial port of the computer. In other words will the Throttle work separately and be programmable without the X-45 joystick being plugged in as well.

I think you get my drift.

I'm not opposed to used the X45 throttle, afterall if I ever did need an X-45 type stick and was willing to go to floor pedals for the rudder I'd have it. LOL

Thanks to everyone for your responses.

------------------- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 08:46 PM
I like the CH Pro throttle better than the X-45 throttle because the X-45 throttle wants to tip over when you move it. The CH Pro throttle may not be perfoect, but it has enough buttons for me, doesn't clutter up my desk, and has similar styling to the MSFFB2

To use the MSFFB2 in XP, just plug it in. Done. Don't install the software, it isn't supported by Windows XP. Don't listen to those who claim to "have no problems" with the software and Windows XP. The bottom line is the Sidewinder isn't supported by XP(just read their fine print or talk to a MS rep on the phone), and i personally have had problems with it in XP. The joystick works fine with the XP driver. The only thing you could use the software for is more button mapping (adjusting forces is far better done by modifying the FFB files of IL2/FB with Fedit instead of a "universal slider") but since you need a seperate throttle to be an ace in FB, you'll have plenty of buttons to go around.

To use it with the CH Pro Throttle, you just use the thottle's software, it will recognize your MSFFB2 as a standard stick, just like Windows does.



AaronGT wrote:
- I got the FFB recently, but I am not sure I actually
- like it. It seems problematic in XP (works for some, not
- for others) with the FFB software, and the effects are
- overdone by default, and not all games have adequate
- control. Also the force feedback sometimes seems to
- briefly let go and then grab the stick back, which is
- odd. I am tempted to go back to my non FFB Precision Pro
- stick.

Don't use the software. You don't need it and it isn't supported by your operating system.

The effects are overdone in IL2/FB by default, not the Joystick. You can modify each and everyone to your liking by using the Fedit program http://yaim.host.sk on them (highly recommended). You can also fix some of the FFB bugs that they never even tried to fix since IL2 (too long for me to post here though). When you say "the force feedback sometimes seems to briefly let go and then grab the stick back", this is the "punch" file. It occurs when you make sudden movements of the elevator at a certain speed range, and also occurs in bad weather as a turbulence effect.

You just need to get your forces in order and forget about the Sidewinder software.



"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 10:13 PM
Hi nearmiss,

- Snoop_Baron:
-
- The X-45 throttle has a serial plug in, and is setup
- to plug into the X-45 joystick. When you say just
- have them plugged in do you mean...have two sticks
- plugged in and basically put one under the table.
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif or can I plug the throttle plug
- into a serial port of the computer. In other words
- will the Throttle work separately and be
- programmable without the X-45 joystick being plugged
- in as well.
-
- I think you get my drift.
-
- I'm not opposed to used the X45 throttle, afterall
- if I ever did need an X-45 type stick and was
- willing to go to floor pedals for the rudder I'd
- have it. LOL
-
- Thanks to everyone for your responses.


I have both sticks plugged in. You can not use the X45 throttle without being plugged into the X45 joystick.

The way I have it configured on my desktop is as follows:

[X45 Stick ]
[X45 throttle] [Mouse] [MS FF2 ]

I like to put the stick behind the throttle so I can reach over to it and use it as a button bay for non essential commands. I place my keyboard on my lap. I also use velcro to keep the X45 stick and throttle firmly in place. The MS FF2 is heavy enough that it doesn't needed. And actualy you don't really need it with the X45 throttle if you set the throttle tightness to the softest setting (there is an adjustment screw in the base).

IL2 doesn't have any problems with having both sticks (and my rudder pedals) plugged in at the same time. I simply went to the IL2 HOTAS setup screen and configured the X & Y axis to use the MS FF2 and the throttle, trim, and prop-pitch axis to use the X45 throttle, and the rudder and break axis to use the CH Pro pedals.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

s!

:FI:SnoopBaron

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 11:50 PM
Snoop_Baron

Thank you for your careful explanations.

---------------- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 12:25 AM
S!,
Well, at least you didn't get suckered into the Cougar hype like I did. I used the Cougar for over 2 months. It was perhaps the greatest disappointment I've ever had when buying computer equipment. Fortunately, I was able to sell the POS.

I currently use an old MS FFB Pro. This stick is nearly 5 years old now and it still works like a champ. I bought CH Pro USB throttle and haven't looked back. The combination of MS and CH has, and is IMO, the best bang for the money. I found the CH product to be far superior to the X-45 which seems like something out of Star Wars. Additionally, it has a smaller desktop footprint than the X45.

Well, if you still have the X45, just combine the throttle and the MSFFB2. YOu'll have a good HOTAS.

HB

American by birth; Southern by the Grace of God!

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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 12:39 AM
HeinzBar

I took it back today. I like the idea of the CH Products throttle, because it is standalone. All I can see is problems or peculiar ways to do things with the X-45 and the MSFT FF2 being in use simultaneously.

I found a cool tool to make up for a lot of things...as well. X=Keys

http://www.ymouse.com/xkeys/xkdesk.htm

The USB version allows you to Download a "Free"
macro builder software and recorder. So, you can build different profiles and save them in their own file. Then you can reprogram the X-keys easily when you change sims. Very cool /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I can now go back and forth to BOB, EAW, WW2 Fighters and I don't have to remember all the different keystroke command keys. I can just DL a profile and the X-Keys are premarked for the function selections.

I may not even need a throttle, afterall the FF2 has a slider on it.

Regardless, thanks to all for your comments.


--------------- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 12:47 AM
You need at least 2 slider in FB. One for throttle, and the other for elevator trim (don't even try to argue with me on this one) It's the whole reason I bought a CH Throttle. (not needed in IL2 though)

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 12:54 AM
AaronGT wrote:
- ...
-
- ...
- Also
- the force feedback sometimes seems to briefly let go
- and
- then grab the stick back, which is odd. I am tempted
- to
- go back to my non FFB Precision Pro stick.
-
-


AaronGT:

I had this problem too, and it was really annoying when I was on someone's six and all of a sudden lost the FFB for a split second. Always made me jump and over correct when it kicked back in.

Then someone told me about the little sensor that's located at the base of the stick (front), and asked me to try this: Push the stick to either side using a finger on top of the stick, then cover the sensor with a finger. It should center automatically. The sensor allows the stick to enter a "power save"-mode when it's not in use (i.e. the sensor's not covered), which extends the life of the stick.

It turned out I was easing the grip with my hand (but not the thumb and index finger) when I got into a dogfight, and that meant the sensor wasn't covered. When the FFB was lost I reacted by tightening my grip and cover the sensor (so the FFB returned). Guess if I felt st00pid when I realised this... I even called Microsoft and told them my stick must be broken, and they asked me to send it back. Found out about the sensor just in time... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif


The "punch" that RBJ mentioned isn't a loss of FFB at all, it's just a quick stick movement in some direction to simulate turbulence. If you feel the stick momentarily go limp, then you need to cover the sensor. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 01:01 AM
You gotta clean that sensor off every now and then because dead skin cells from your hand will build up.

Also regarding the sensor, one time I bought a MSFFB2 and I returned it right away because the sensor wasn't always turning the stick off when I let go.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 02:06 AM
S!

They work great together. I'm using the MS FFB2 with the X-45 throttle. I'll never go back to just one or the other!





>>!S!<<

<PF> Rory O'Moore CO, Phantom Fighters

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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 04:13 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:

- To use the MSFFB2 in XP, just plug it in. Done.
- Don't install the software, it isn't supported by
- Windows XP. Don't listen to those who claim to
- "have no problems" with the software and Windows XP.
- The bottom line is the Sidewinder isn't supported
- by XP(just read their fine print or talk to a MS rep
- on the phone), and i personally have had problems
- with it in XP.

Wrong!!! I run XP and I have the latest Sidewinder drivers and I have had NO PROBLEMS AT ALL with it. I use the profiling software because it is more flexible IMO.


Snoop_Baron wrote:
The way I have it configured on my desktop is as follows:

[X45 Stick ]
[X45 throttle] [Mouse] [MS FF2 ]

I like to put the stick behind the throttle so I can reach over to it and use it as a button bay for non essential commands. I place my keyboard on my lap. I also use velcro to keep the X45 stick and throttle firmly in place. The MS FF2 is heavy enough that it doesn't needed. And actualy you don't really need it with the X45 throttle if you set the throttle tightness to the softest setting (there is an adjustment screw in the base).

IL2 doesn't have any problems with having both sticks (and my rudder pedals) plugged in at the same time. I simply went to the IL2 HOTAS setup screen and configured the X & Y axis to use the MS FF2 and the throttle, trim, and prop-pitch axis to use the X45 throttle, and the rudder and break axis to use the CH Pro pedals.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Snoop I am curious...why do you use the keyboard still? I have every command I can think of on my sticks..the ones that arent on there I dont miss and if it were neccessary i could put them there. I have views,map,quick record,radiator,drop tanks,all gear,all lights,autopilot,mixture,supercharger,pitch,all trims,all weps,flaps... I even have my RW press to talk key mapped to my X45. I dont even have o use my mouse or keyboard to watch tracks..but I do sometimes. My setup is like yours...I have the X45 stick at the 11 O'Clock of my X45 throttle. The only thing I dont use on the X45 is the X & Y axii. When I fly my keyboard is under my desk and completely out of the way. As I said earlier... I have a combo profile on our squad site...feel free to use it. Enk modified it and his is pretty nice too. The only thing is like i said my profile is set up for someone who uses rudder pedals so you will have to assign the rudder somewhere if you dont have pedals. I suggest the twist of the MSFFB.

RayBanJockey wrote:

You need at least 2 slider in FB. One for throttle, and the other for elevator trim (don't even try to argue with me on this one) It's the whole reason I bought a CH Throttle. (not needed in IL2 though)

I have four sliders if you include the X45 throttle itself. I have aileron trim and elevator trim on the X45 sliders, rudder trim on the twist handle of the MSFFB and prop pitch on the MSFFB throttle slider. The X45 throttle slider is of course my throttle. With my flaps on the rudder rocker I can control my throttle and flaps with the same hand at the same time.

PF_RoryOMoore wrote:
They work great together. I'm using the MS FFB2 with the X-45 throttle. I'll never go back to just one or the other!


I'm with you Rory!!!


<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 06:13 AM
- Snoop I am curious...why do you use the keyboard
- still? ... As I said earlier... I have a combo
- profile on our squad site...feel free to use it. Enk
- modified it and his is pretty nice too. The only
- thing is like i said my profile is set up for
- someone who uses rudder pedals so you will have to
- assign the rudder somewhere if you dont have pedals.
- I suggest the twist of the MSFFB.

Hi Bearcat,

I have the keyboard on my lap so I can use the text chat. I also use team speak to talk with my squad mates but not everyone has it. I wish everyone in every game would be using voice comms as then I could trully get rid of the keyboard. Because as you said with the X45 you can map everything to the stick and throttle. Don't you ever talk to the poor guys who only have text chat http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ??

I downloaded and took a look at your X45 and MS FF2 profiles when I got my MS FF2 stick. (Thanks for making them available) I decided to make a modified version of my X45 profile instead, because I had become to acustomed to my particular layout. Before I got my new MS FF2 stick I used the X45 for everything. I already had all the commands mapped to my X45 so all I had to do when I goet MS FF2 stick is rearrange things a little bit. I also have a pair of CH Pro rudder pedals and track IR (which frees up a hat switch). I think we have the same basic setup (as the a couple other people on the forum). I honestly believe that so far this seems to be the best combination of controls available for FB. The next thing I'm looking into is if it is worth upgrading to TrackIR2.

s!


:FI:SnoopBaron

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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 03:11 PM
Couple of questions about the MSFF2

1. I went to my local Best Buy (Canada) and they had two versions of the FF2; one with red buttons and one with a silver hat switch - is there a difference between these two?

2. On my logitech 2.4 cordless I am able to assign one of the buttons as a shift thereby doubling the number of functions. Is this possible on the MS stick?

3. Does the Force Feedback help in your flying? For example, giving the sensation that you are about to stall?

The price tg at BB is 159, but given all the positive feedback and the fact that my current stick is dying it might be worth the investment before they are impossible to find.

bail0ut

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 03:52 PM
bail0ut wrote:
- Couple of questions about the MSFF2
-
- 1. I went to my local Best Buy (Canada) and they
- had two versions of the FF2; one with red buttons
- and one with a silver hat switch - is there a
- difference between these two?

Mine has a silver POV hat switch,slider and front trigger

-
- 2. On my logitech 2.4 cordless I am able to assign
- one of the buttons as a shift thereby doubling the
- number of functions. Is this possible on the MS
- stick?

You can program the switch with macro of keystokes, but a toggle for a complete change...I don't think so.

-
- 3. Does the Force Feedback help in your flying?
- For example, giving the sensation that you are about
- to stall?

Yes it helps prepare for stalls, probably one of better features. Remember you can tone down the FF responses.
-
- The price tg at BB is 159, but given all the
- positive feedback and the fact that my current stick
- is dying it might be worth the investment before
- they are impossible to find.

I'd say your best go would be to get one off Ebay. There you can bypass a lot of the duty situation...I think. The FF2 stick stands up very well. A slightly used stick would probably be fine.


-------------------- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-

- bail0ut

-
-

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 05:08 PM
nearmiss wrote:
-
--
-- 2. On my logitech 2.4 cordless I am able to assign
-- one of the buttons as a shift thereby doubling the
-- number of functions. Is this possible on the MS
-- stick?
-
- You can program the switch with macro of keystokes,
- but a toggle for a complete change...I don't think
- so.
-


I have A very nice profile for my MSFFB2 stick that was developed by a freind. It allows me 21 functions on the stick by itself! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I have it available at my website for download.(in my sig) It is in a zip file complete with printable layouts and labels so you can set it up in game.

I also have always used the Profile software with Zero problems with XP. But, It is not supported so some may not be so fortunate.

PF-Coastie

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Coasties Place (http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/coastie0/)

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 05:46 PM
yepper, Snoop is right, you might want to purchase some rudder pedals to go with the configuration, it will be alot more fun that way. dont give up on it yet until you get the rudder pedals. its a whole new ball game with those./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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http://www.dugg.ca/

XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 02:46 AM
Yep, I love my rudder pedals http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Check your prices you can get the MS FF2 stick at Amazon.com for just $59.74. You can use super saver shipping so you don't have to pay any additional shipping and you won't have to pay taxes. Not a bad deal http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

:FI:SnoopBaron

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_07.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 03:02 AM
Snoop_Baron wrote:
- Hi Bearcat,
-
- I have the keyboard on my lap so I can use the text
- chat. I also use team speak to talk with my squad
- mates but not everyone has it. I wish everyone in
- every game would be using voice comms as then I
- could trully get rid of the keyboard. Because as you
- said with the X45 you can map everything to the
- stick and throttle. Don't you ever talk to the poor
- guys who only have text chat /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ??
-
- I downloaded and took a look at your X45 and MS FF2
- profiles when I got my MS FF2 stick. (Thanks for
- making them available) I decided to make a modified
- version of my X45 profile instead, because I had
- become to acustomed to my particular layout. Before
- I got my new MS FF2 stick I used the X45 for
- everything. I already had all the commands mapped to
- my X45 so all I had to do when I goet MS FF2 stick
- is rearrange things a little bit. I also have a pair
- of CH Pro rudder pedals and track IR (which frees up
- a hat switch). I think we have the same basic setup
- (as the a couple other people on the forum). I
- honestly believe that so far this seems to be the
- best combination of controls available for FB. The
- next thing I'm looking into is if it is worth
- upgrading to TrackIR2.


LOL!! Yeah Snoop I do talk to the chat guys..I mostly fly coops though and we are usually on comms so it isnt an issue....

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 03:06 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I like the CH Pro throttle better than the X-45
- throttle because the X-45 throttle wants to tip over
- when you move it

Write Saitek and ask them for some suction cups. They'll send them free. I know. I did. I have them. They work.

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