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XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 09:56 AM
99% of AFJ thinks prepatch hurricane was a UFO. we also think its accurate now.team afjs plane of choice pre patch was the K4. NOT the hurricane. post patch we fly 109s and fws and doras and jugs. and would fly spits and stangs if given the chance.

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XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 09:56 AM
99% of AFJ thinks prepatch hurricane was a UFO. we also think its accurate now.team afjs plane of choice pre patch was the K4. NOT the hurricane. post patch we fly 109s and fws and doras and jugs. and would fly spits and stangs if given the chance.

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XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 10:07 AM
Although I've never flown a RL aircraft of any type; IMHO the post patch Hurricane feels more realistic. Pre-patch it WAS a UFO!

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XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 12:21 PM
the FB v1.0 Hurricane had an overmoddeled : ....

1) dive speed
2) climb rate
3) turn time
4) engine durability ]

but its lack of stalls compared to other planes was NOT overmoddeled

dont try telling me that the v1.0 Hurri never stalled
it did it easy if you knew how , the way it stalls now is not accurate

it still has an extremely durable motor when compared to other planes in FB

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 12:29 PM
WUAF_Badsight wrote:
-
- the FB v1.0 Hurricane had an overmoddeled : ....
-
-
- 1) dive speed
-
- 2) climb rate
-
- 3) turn time
-
- 4) engine durability ]
-
-
- but its lack of stalls compared to other planes was
- NOT overmoddeled
-
-
- dont try telling me that the v1.0 Hurri never
- stalled
-
- it did it easy if you knew how , the way it stalls
- now is not accurate
-
-
- it still has an extremely durable motor when
- compared to other planes in FB
-
-
-

THe problem is, you shouldnt have to practise stalls and get the hang of them to finally know how to stall an aircraft. They just should.

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XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 12:36 PM
you didnt have to pratice making the Hurricane stall in FB v1.0 .............
but with pratice you could make it do it whenever you wanted


in relation to all other fighters in FB the Hurricane should have the lowest stall incidence

apart from the I-153

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 12:46 PM
whenever wannabe " aces " come off second best against good performing A/C they one & all go around labelling it a Noob plane

the reality is that there were great turning A/C & poor turning A/C in WW2 & all of them got kills

it seems some just want to be able to kill one kind of A/C eaisly because of one reason or another

i wonder how many Hurricane whiners will now fly the thing now they view it as being " fixed ' & therefore accurate

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 04:20 PM
Most people who flew the Hurri before the patch now fly LA7s, FW-190s, and P-39s from what I have seen. I got respect for those who still fly the Hurri post patch. Although I havent spent alot of time in it I can tell its a more challenging aircraft to fly.


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XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 04:52 PM
Hehe,I know why this announcement was made.

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 05:27 PM
Well if it will stop people from crying when i shoot them down im all for it. The funny thing is, you never heard a good pilot cry about huricanes, they just didnt try to turn with it. I knew guys who flew yaks that could turn with and shoot me. I knew guys who could zoom and boom my *** with a 190 or 109, but when some moron jumped into one of those planes and tried to turn with me they failed then said "the hurricane is a ufo, wawawawawa"....."there gonna fix it in the patch you know, wawawawwawawwa"

As all real pilots of the day knew, you have to fly your plane to its advantages. If you can dive faster then your foe....DIVE. If you can climb faster than your foe....CLIMB. If you can turn faster.....TURN. If you can outrun....RUN

I wonder how many German pilots cried about the hurricane being a "ufo" after they were shot down during the battle of Britain.

Once a luftwaffe pilot was asked what he needs to win the battle of Britain and he answered "spitfires"......or was it "UFO`s" LOL

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 05:33 PM
The Hurricane is now where it belongs, back with the early war planes. The fact that a 1941 plane could hang with the late-war planes was fun while it lasted, but totally unrealistic.

The Hurri is still a great plane that has been placed back under it's historical limitations. It still turns great, still climbs steady above 260-280km/h and on a late-war server, she can still hold her own with the big planes.

It's still an awesome plane and still my ride of choice on 1941 servers. It's low top speed makes it tough to fly against the late-war planes now, but it can still be done well, if you conserve your energy like a miser and always have as much speed behind you as you can muster for each attack. I use it exclusively against 153s, Ratas, other Hurris or the early 109s. Although, that F4 can be a biatch and a half against a Hurri, I'll tell ya./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The main difference post-patch with the Hurri, is that you just can't roll into a furball like gangbusters anymore and just keep turning until everybody has fallen to your 4 Hispanos. You have to be more of a surgeon with the Hurricane now and dissect your opponent, instead of bludgeoning him repeatedly about the head and shoulders with total impunity, like before.

Oh, one for the SpitWhiners.....

Maybe they accidentally put the Spitfire MkIX flight model onto the original Hurricane by mistake?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

One thing for sure, that clipped wing MkIX is going to roll 2nd only to the FW (according to Buzzsaw's charts I saw in his P47 roll rate thread) and with a top speed of 400+MPH, she'll be a force to be reckoned with.

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XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 05:34 PM
SWN's comments to the contrary, the Hurricane FM was a joke in 1.0.

It could stand on its nose at will...and with 4 x 20mm as the punch line, well, let's say a lot of people who know how to fight Hurricanes got some nasty surprises.

The Hurricane should turn VERY well, and be fairly maneuverable. But not fast. The stall, from things I've read, could be a rather nasty left wing torque snap (if entered during tight maneuvering), or a docile nose down *sag* if it were a "wing level" stall.

Right now, it seems as though reality has caught up with the 'Cane.

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 06:50 PM
The hurricane seems about right to me. It is one of the few allied planes I like to fly. She is agile, has a nice cockpit and is comfortable to fly. 3 point landings with the hurricane are a breeze. But it is subject to gravity nowhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Before the hurricane was a joke just like the P-39's are now.

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At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.
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Message Edited on 08/24/0312:52PM by Maj_Death

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 06:51 PM
Stiglr wrote:

- Right now, it seems as though reality has caught up
- with the 'Cane.

That just about sums it up, Stiglr. Good point.

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XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 07:02 PM
RedDeth wrote:
- 99% of AFJ thinks prepatch hurricane was a UFO. we
- also think its accurate now.team afjs plane of
- choice pre patch was the K4. NOT the hurricane. post
- patch we fly 109s and fws and doras and jugs. and
- would fly spits and stangs if given the chance.

Does anyone have one example of how the pre-hurricane was in error? I see alot of FEELINGS being talked about.. but not one exaple with some numbers to back it up.. Not saying there wasnt an error.. Mater of fact Im sure there must have been or Oleg wouldnt have changed it.. Im just curious.. what thing(s) was changed? Was it just the climb rate.. or a combination of things.. We get so little information in the readme.txt files.



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XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 07:38 PM
Red,

I assume this is in responce to the babbling of widowmaker../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 07:57 PM
I don't have a problem with it the way it is now and I flew a few offline campaign missions in it. I never flew it online so I can't comment on it's before/after behavior
against late war planes. But it seems to be about right
offline. I can bounce and kill 109 F's and G's but that's only becuase the AI never have flown the 109 correctly. Against a human pilot it would probably fly about how it should against an early E 109, which is to say it would probably be able to down one with a good pilot flying it. But nobody should expect it to do well against humans flying anything later than a 42 plane. AI and humans are worlds apart. Just don't make sense that people whine
about a plane having the capabilities that are about right for it's type. And I thing it has a great turn still.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - 1755

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 08:23 PM
i could never fly it ,before or after the patch, but i do respect it ,g2 ,mig ,yak ,will be the planes that i will be shooting them down in ,i look long and hard but the sky is empty,lol

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 08:42 PM
The only problem I had with the Hurricain pre patch was that the engine would run for 30 minutes on full wep, 120% mix and radiator closed without overheating. The extra horsepower was what made it so dangerous. The rest of the aircraft was fairly accurate, with the exception that compressability is missing from FB for all aircraft.

Consider for a moment, the Hawker Typhoon was merely an upengined Hurricain. The aerodynamics are nearly identical, when both are considered to have rigid skin. The Typhoon was the first British aircraft capable of defeating the FW-190 on equal grounds, and was used up until the end of the war.

Now consider what the Hurricain would be like, with around 200-400 more horse power, and a rigid skin, and you get pretty much what you had in FB 1.0.

Harry Voyager

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XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 08:47 PM
Typhoon is similar to a hurricane but I doubt its all that close as to call it "up engined Hurricane".

The wings are different, for one, and Typhoon is almost 2ce the weight, isnt it?

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 09:03 PM
The airfoil was almost identical. The is a crank in the wing to keep the landing gear a bit shorter, but that's about all it does. In fact the wing is to similare, in that they both have very low critical mach speeds. It was one of the few significant weaknesses of the aircraft. However, compressability and mach effects aren't modeled in Il-2/FB.

Yes, the Typhoon is much heavier, but all of that weight came from making the aircraft out of metal, rather than tube and fabric, and the heavier engine. The airframe is also slightly larger, but again, that is simply to accomodate the bigger engine. The bubble canopy was post design addition; the early versions has a ridge back much like the Hurricain's. The chin radiator the Typhoon used was also used on some of the Hurricain test models, and the belly radiator of the Hurricain was also used in test builts of the Typhoon.

Really, the Typhoon is a very direct outgrowth of the Hurricain's design, just as the Hurricain is a direct outgrowth of the Hart biplanes. It's rather amazing how much the two aircraft have in common, despite the apparent differences in the final planes.

I've just always found incremental designs fascinating to trace. It's interesting to consider that the Hawker Sea Fury II, one of the ultimate expressions of the piston engined fighter is very directly descended from aircraft dating to the mid 20's.

Back to the original point, the Typhoon seems to be a very different from the Hurricain, because it made several appearance altering modifications during it's production life. However, when one sees the Tornado (RR Vulture engined counterpart to the Typhoon) it is very clear just how closely related the two aircraft are.

Harry Voyager

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Addendum: Found it. http://home.att.net/~ww2aviation/Hawker.html

In particulare, this picture here:
http://home.att.net/~ww2aviation/tornadoproto1.jpg

That is the Hawker Tornado prototype.

Message Edited on 08/24/0303:13PM by HarryVoyager

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 09:03 PM
I don't know why this post was made but it just brought this back up again. I didn't think we had to defend our-selves personaly. I have to agree with Stick though in a since.

BH

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 10:06 PM
sorry black. i saw many posts labelling us now as a hurricane squad which boggles the mind. thats all. that was my only reason for this posting. that and plugging the spits and stangs . hopefully we get them soon.

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XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 04:41 AM
I am wanting the stang BAD, that will be my bird of choice no matter what and when we get the correct model of the 47 that will be my second ... do you think the P-38 will make it? I read some interesting articles on it today ... they put 1-37mm 2-20mm and 2-50mm on the nose of a select few of those babies but they decided to go with 1-50mm and 4-20mm I think it was .. I need to re-read it to make sure. 37mm would make the 38 a baaaaad mamah jamah.

BH

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 06:54 AM
Tagert, I don't know precisely what changed in the Hurricane model ITSELF; possibly NOTHING.

What HAS changed, across the board, is that realistic energy bleed is back. Planes can't just hang their noses in the air with impunity anymore; they'll stall and fall out of the sky.

That was the Hurricane's signature dweebmove in FB 1.0; hang in the air and fry people with those 4 x 20mm cannon.

Fly Hurricanes in Warbirds, in WWIIOL; you'll see what we mean about this plane. It's not very fast, turns very well, is very maneuverable at low speed, but as for climbing and hanging on it's prop: no. That is not one of its calling cards.

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 07:11 AM
Stiglr wrote:
- Tagert, I don't know precisely what changed in the
- Hurricane model ITSELF; possibly NOTHING.

Ok..

- What HAS changed, across the board, is that
- realistic energy bleed is back. Planes can't just
- hang their noses in the air with impunity anymore;
- they'll stall and fall out of the sky.

Hmmm I havnt noticed that across the board.. maybe, I just dont tend to get my self in such a bad situation! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif So maybe it is.. but.. the HURR does seem different.

- That was the Hurricane's signature dweebmove in FB
- 1.0; hang in the air and fry people with those 4 x
- 20mm cannon.

Yup.. seem folks do that alot.. Not sure if it was realistic or not.. Never seen anyone post any hard data that said it couldnt.. Lot's of WAG's and FEELINGS were posted for sure.. but no data.. But there must have been something or some data found, because Oleg and the team did change it.

- Fly Hurricanes in Warbirds, in WWIIOL; you'll see
- what we mean about this plane. It's not very fast,
- turns very well, is very maneuverable at low speed,
- but as for climbing and hanging on it's prop: no.
- That is not one of its calling cards.

But then Im just comparing someone else's game to a game.. Who's to say they got it right! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 07:27 AM
I used to like flying the old hurricane and i did very well with it against 90% of the people i fought. Can someone explain to me why that 10% was able to outfly me with a yak and other planes as well? ....oh ya BTW that 10% also never cried about the hurricane being a UFO.

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 09:24 AM
standard armament in most all of the p38s i believe was one 20 mil cannon and 4 50s all in the nose. p38 would be nice. it could out turn a zero .

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