PDA

View Full Version : Online vs Offline FM's?



Da_Godfatha
11-23-2004, 03:14 PM
I have a question for all the Aces out there, are there two different FM's, one for online, and one for offline?.
I have noticed that offline, the Kate and Val are two tough birds to bring down, but online they die very quickly. For some reason I have the feeling that there are TWO different FM's. Now I hope I am wrong on this. Not to mention that the offline AI gunners are much better than the online AI gunners. It also seems that online there are more control damages than offline. Nothing is more frustrating than to fly for 15-20 minutes online, and then at the start of the attack run get the dreaded "elevator controls damaged" message.
Again, this is just my feelings and my observations.

WTE_Galway
11-23-2004, 03:31 PM
well for starters offline you are shooting at an AI plane and online usually a player controlled plane

the AI and player controlled FM's are certianly very different

BlitzPig_DDT
11-23-2004, 05:42 PM
Good point about the AI Galway, but I think he might actually be on to something. Myself and others have been seeing this as well.

Not just offline, but in COOPs as compared to DFs as well. Even when against human opponents. I was just talking to BlitzPig_Bury about the last night (or the night before) when we were flying his COOPs, and he and others had commented that they noticed and/or felt the same thing.

Very odd....

Mackane1
11-23-2004, 05:57 PM
Offline AI "cheats". It would require to many resources to give AI planes real flight models. This is why an AI Zero will follow and keep up with you in a 400+ mph dive.....and remain intact.

clint-ruin
11-23-2004, 06:05 PM
DM issues online vs offline end up being passed through the tcp and encryption code in Il2FBAEPPF. Latency, loss, client and server load, and the net code itself [back a few versions] can and do cause differences.

FM is no different online to offline as far as I know, but whatever you see of other aircraft is old, and possibly only partial data. If they warp around a bit it's just to be expected from trying to run fast moving objects over tcp.

Tully__
11-24-2004, 12:46 AM
The flight and damage models are the same in all modes according to Oleg, however packet loss and lag can cause some odd hit detection issues or flight behaviour that sometimes make it appear there's a difference.

Copperhead310th
11-24-2004, 12:57 AM
Well i guess that explains why a Ta-152 can attck a formation of 8 P-38L's online and take out 2 in his 1st pass.

he shot the right wing off the first 2 just inbord of the right engine with 1 quick burst.
and the 45 seconds latter did the same thing to me.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gifunbeliveable. 1 shot 1 kill. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

anyone want to see the track? Dunno maybe it was just bad luck on our part, wrong place wrong time. But watching the track the guy starts out at over 5000m alt. and we were at around 1200m. basically on the deck. no way he could have seen us. yet he did. and looking at the angle of his ammo trajectory...NO one and i mean NO one is that dam good of a shot.

Oh and we were all loaded heavy and were only 2 mins out from base.

WUAF_Darkangel
11-24-2004, 01:15 AM
One shot one kill?...yeah that should be about right even offline. It only takes a shot from an mk108 or a jap 30mm to shoot wings off most planes from my experience.

WUAF_Badsight
11-24-2004, 02:01 AM
the AI can calculate at the speed of your CPU

can you do the same ?

can you react that fast ?

it "cheats" in the scense that it can run at the optimum pitch & rad & flap setting for each situation & runs adjustments when needed

they are being told what to do by the game , thus they can hold a perfect bead on you in a head-on

thus they can hold fire & only open up at their convergence setting . . . . . this is part of the reason that ACE AI are so good at head-ons . . . . they have been programmed that way

the AI that puts up the Hardest fight IMO , has always been Yak-3's , they seemed to have been programmed to fight the Hardest

AI do stupid stuff in-game but its not that they are in-capable , just that when they do it , its reflecting the limitation of AI programming

things such as aiming they can be programmed to do very well . . . . things such as shooting deflection shows programming limitation

already AI uses a big part of the CPU cycle & to get them more capable than they are is doable , but would require a bigger part of your CPU's time

some of the worlds smartest computer sciencetists are working on Artificial Intelligence

its is in NO way a simple subject

WUAF_Badsight
11-24-2004, 02:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gifunbeliveable. 1 shot 1 kill. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
CopperHead , have you watched the Go-229 track that shipped with AEP ?

it was included to your Track selection when you installed AEP

WUAF_Badsight
11-24-2004, 02:07 AM
personally , i find it much eaiser to inflict damadge OFFLINE

when you play FB/PF using its multiplay function , you activate the cheat protocols & these interfer with bullet tracking / prediction

pettera
11-24-2004, 03:57 AM
The AI is a lot better at handling injured planes. So even though you harm an AI plane significantly offline they will often be able to return to base. If you harm an online pilot just a little they often fail landing and you get a kill.

So in general I find it easier to inflict some small damage online and get a kill. Ofline you need to seriously harm a plane to obtain a kill.

FMs between AI and humans are different but the main difference to me seems that AIs superior ability to control the flight with damaged wings and controls.

DM seems identical but the consequences of damage seems very different on AI and humans.

Net lag is ofcourse a different issue that makes things appear different for different players. This cause confusion but is an inherent part of online gaming.

Petter

VW-IceFire
11-24-2004, 07:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
Well i guess that explains why a Ta-152 can attck a formation of 8 P-38L's online and take out 2 in his 1st pass.

he shot the right wing off the first 2 just inbord of the right engine with 1 quick burst.
and the 45 seconds latter did the same thing to me.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gifunbeliveable. 1 shot 1 kill. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

anyone want to see the track? Dunno maybe it was just bad luck on our part, wrong place wrong time. But watching the track the guy starts out at over 5000m alt. and we were at around 1200m. basically on the deck. no way he could have seen us. yet he did. and looking at the angle of his ammo trajectory...NO one and i mean NO one is that dam good of a shot.

Oh and we were all loaded heavy and were only 2 mins out from base. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It could happen. The P-38 seems to loose wings based on a single 30mm hit. Or a pair of 30mm hits. The Ta-152H is very stable in high speed gunnery passes and the cannon works just fine (despite the people who say its not). So yes, quite possible to take out 2 P-38's in a single pass. I've done the same with Yak-3's (two down in less than 15 seconds).

Also doable offline.

Aaron_GT
11-24-2004, 09:22 AM
"anyone want to see the track? Dunno maybe it was just bad luck on our part, wrong place wrong time. But watching the track the guy starts out at over 5000m alt. and we were at around 1200m. basically on the deck. no way he could have seen us."

That's about 4000m difference. You can see planes from that difference in altitude, especially if there is a gaggle of you moving. I've bounced planes near the deck with a 4000m advantage before, although I rarely have the sort of shooting luck that Ta152 did as my gunnery isn't too good. Plus a time I tried to swoop down in a P38L didn't go too well as I couldn't remember what I'd mapped those dive breaks too... so I just compressed and piled into the ground. Doh!

Copperhead310th
11-24-2004, 10:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
"anyone want to see the track? Dunno maybe it was just bad luck on our part, wrong place wrong time. But watching the track the guy starts out at over 5000m alt. and we were at around 1200m. basically on the deck. no way he could have seen us."

That's about 4000m difference. You can see planes from that difference in altitude, especially if there is a gaggle of you moving. I've bounced planes near the deck with a 4000m advantage before, although I rarely have the sort of shooting luck that Ta152 did as my gunnery isn't too good. Plus a time I tried to swoop down in a P38L didn't go too well as I couldn't remember what I'd mapped those dive breaks too... so I just compressed and piled into the ground. Doh! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah byt we wern't sitting likr right below him. we we're well out side of Normal icon range. and this was on war clouds. where the icons are set to around 1.0 or less and the are colorless and fiant at a ditance.

tora-2
11-24-2004, 10:08 AM
The AI gunners online are certainly noticeably different. I always assume this is an issue with lag. Offline they typically open fire at 0.6 and are highly accurate even the rookie one's.

On online severs where the icon is set and the range shows, I have noticed they will open fire at much greater ranges , and fail to score hits. Shots out to 0.8 and beyond are pretty common.

faustnik
11-24-2004, 11:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
Well i guess that explains why a Ta-152 can attck a formation of 8 P-38L's online and take out 2 in his 1st pass.

he shot the right wing off the first 2 just inbord of the right engine with 1 quick burst.
and the 45 seconds latter did the same thing to me.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gifunbeliveable. 1 shot 1 kill. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

anyone want to see the track? Dunno maybe it was just bad luck on our part, wrong place wrong time. But watching the track the guy starts out at over 5000m alt. and we were at around 1200m. basically on the deck. no way he could have seen us. yet he did. and looking at the angle of his ammo trajectory...NO one and i mean NO one is that dam good of a shot.

Oh and we were all loaded heavy and were only 2 mins out from base. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure what you are saying Copperhead. Do you think this guy had some kind of cheat hack going or are you saying that you don't think one Mk108 hit would down a P-38? If you think it was a cheat, I'd like to review the track.

Aaron_GT
11-24-2004, 03:50 PM
"yeah byt we wern't sitting likr right below him. we we're well out side of Normal icon range. and this was on war clouds."

Yep. I was talking about War Clouds too. You see a dot. You sweep down on to it, you find out when you get close what it is, and you have a second to determine what you are going to do. That's the point it normally goes to pieces for me, but if the Ta152 driver was good then he has a chance of doing what he did with the big cannon. It wouldn't have been possible back in the days of really huge muzzle flashes as he would have got a nasty frame rate hit, but now they've been toned down it is possible. Also 8 planes are a lot easier to see than 1. The dots are small but a pattern of movement from several dots catches the eye more easily.

I've not managed hits on multiple aircraft myself, and more often than not I fire, miss, and zoom through without hitting a thing, but in the past I've managed to wipe out aircraft BnZing from a big height advantage, and I'm frankly a pretty lousy pilot! I don't manage it very often, as I said, because my gunnery in the split second you have to line the last of it up, sucks and I don't practice it offline, but it can be done.

BBB_Hyperion
11-24-2004, 06:51 PM
I think they increased gunpower online cause of packetloss compared to offline play. Another thing is ai simple dm and player complex.