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Moultonborough
07-25-2011, 08:54 PM
Over the past few days I have been playing the series again. And I noticed something I missed before. Towards the end of AC1 Desmond asks Lucy about the apple Abstergo wants. He says something like "looks like it is in Masyaf." But Lucy says it was destroyed in the DIA accident. Which brought a question to my mind. In AC2 the Templar's go to Cyprus for an apple which Ezio eventually gets and hides in Rome. I have always thought it was the same Apple that went from Altair to Ezio, to Desmond. But if Abstergo had it until it's destruction where did the one that Desmond has now come from? It just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I am missing something obvious but just thought I would ask.

EDIT: Sorry if that sounds confusing.

LieutenantJojo
07-25-2011, 08:59 PM
Well, I assume the one that Altair had has been destroyed in present time, so the one Ezio had in his possession was another one and this PoE was the one Desmond found at the end of ACB. At least, that's the only logical explanation, unless Lucy was wrong about Altair's one being destroyed.

Moultonborough
07-25-2011, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by LieutenantJojo:
Well, I assume the one that Altair had has been destroyed in present time, so the one Ezio had in his possession was another one and this PoE was the one Desmond found at the end of ACB. At least, that's the only logical explanation, unless Lucy was wrong about Altair's one being destroyed.

So, do you think we will see Ezio find that apple in Revelations? In Brotherhood it never says the actual date he placed the apple in the Temple.

dchil279
07-25-2011, 09:17 PM
there are two possibilities:

1) there is more than one apple

or

2)retcon

GunnarGunderson
07-25-2011, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Moultonborough:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LieutenantJojo:
Well, I assume the one that Altair had has been destroyed in present time, so the one Ezio had in his possession was another one and this PoE was the one Desmond found at the end of ACB. At least, that's the only logical explanation, unless Lucy was wrong about Altair's one being destroyed.

So, do you think we will see Ezio find that apple in Revelations? In Brotherhood it never says the actual date he placed the apple in the Temple. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> in the Da Vinci DLC Ezio says he laid the apple to rest, and the DLC takes place in 1506

Abeonis
07-25-2011, 09:19 PM
Sixth Apple, on the Assassin's Creed Wiki. (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Sixth_Apple)

dchil279
07-25-2011, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by Abeonis:
Sixth Apple, on the Assassin's Creed Wiki. (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Sixth_Apple)
wikipedia is not a reliable source.

Poodle_of_Doom
07-25-2011, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
Sixth Apple, on the Assassin's Creed Wiki. (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Sixth_Apple)
wikipedia is not a reliable source. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the game is. Moulton, play the first game again,... Someplace within the first one, it's explained that there is more than one Apple. That is actually stated by Lucy... that there is "...more than one apple."

Moultonborough
07-25-2011, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
Sixth Apple, on the Assassin's Creed Wiki. (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Sixth_Apple)
wikipedia is not a reliable source. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the game is. Moulton, play the first game again,... Someplace within the first one, it's explained that there is more than one Apple. That is actually stated by Lucy... that there is "...more than one apple." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know there is one Apple. All you got to do is pay attention to the Apple numbers in 16's Glyphs. But I still want to know where the other one is if not destroyed. My only guess would be when the Assassins attacked they acquired it and destroyed the underground facility. In the first game I remember their conversation Desmond says "there are more of those things?" Lucy (I think) says "Oh Desmond" or something along those lines.

Poodle_of_Doom
07-25-2011, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Moultonborough:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
Sixth Apple, on the Assassin's Creed Wiki. (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Sixth_Apple)
wikipedia is not a reliable source. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the game is. Moulton, play the first game again,... Someplace within the first one, it's explained that there is more than one Apple. That is actually stated by Lucy... that there is "...more than one apple." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know there is one Apple. All you got to do is pay attention to the Apple numbers in 16's Glyphs. But I still want to know where the other one is if not destroyed. My only guess would be when the Assassins attacked they acquired it and destroyed the underground facility. In the first game I remember their conversation Desmond says "there are more of those things?" Lucy (I think) says "Oh Desmond" or something along those lines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The conversation your talking about is where they are talking about the POE in general. I'm talking specifically about the Apple... there were more than one... One was destroyed. The other Ezio found, and hid. It seems to me there were eight other apples, but I don't remember for sure. It seems as if the apples are like a master control system of some sort.

InfectedNation
07-26-2011, 02:57 AM
I'm pretty sure that it was not Altair's apple that was destroyed, but another - I doubt Abstergo actually know that there's more than 1.

Either that or retcon.
(Because Altair hid his apple in Cyprus - Templars recover an apple from Cyprus and bring it to venice in Sequence 11 of ACII)

Moultonborough
07-26-2011, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by InfectedNation:
I'm pretty sure that it was not Altair's apple that was destroyed, but another - I doubt Abstergo actually know that there's more than 1.

Either that or retcon.
(Because Altair hid his apple in Cyprus - Templars recover an apple from Cyprus and bring it to venice in Sequence 11 of ACII)

They have to know there is more than one. In AC1 they wanted the map that showed all of them. Which they eventually saw. At the end, the people in the conference room said they only needed one for their satellite.

LightRey
07-26-2011, 03:20 AM
Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moultonborough:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
Sixth Apple, on the Assassin's Creed Wiki. (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Sixth_Apple)
wikipedia is not a reliable source. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the game is. Moulton, play the first game again,... Someplace within the first one, it's explained that there is more than one Apple. That is actually stated by Lucy... that there is "...more than one apple." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know there is one Apple. All you got to do is pay attention to the Apple numbers in 16's Glyphs. But I still want to know where the other one is if not destroyed. My only guess would be when the Assassins attacked they acquired it and destroyed the underground facility. In the first game I remember their conversation Desmond says "there are more of those things?" Lucy (I think) says "Oh Desmond" or something along those lines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The conversation your talking about is where they are talking about the POE in general. I'm talking specifically about the Apple... there were more than one... One was destroyed. The other Ezio found, and hid. It seems to me there were eight other apples, but I don't remember for sure. It seems as if the apples are like a master control system of some sort. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, there's like 7 or 8 of them at least. Most info about them can be found in the glyphs in ACII.

dchil279
07-26-2011, 06:42 AM
Originally posted by Poodle_of_Doom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
Sixth Apple, on the Assassin's Creed Wiki. (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Sixth_Apple)
wikipedia is not a reliable source. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the game is. Moulton, play the first game again,... Someplace within the first one, it's explained that there is more than one Apple. That is actually stated by Lucy... that there is "...more than one apple." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
that wiki page says that Altair's and Ezio's apple are the same.

Abeonis
07-26-2011, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
Sixth Apple, on the Assassin's Creed Wiki. (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Sixth_Apple)
wikipedia is not a reliable source. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That doesn't link to wikipedia...

dchil279
07-26-2011, 06:58 AM
Originally posted by Abeonis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
Sixth Apple, on the Assassin's Creed Wiki. (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Sixth_Apple)
wikipedia is not a reliable source. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That doesn't link to wikipedia... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://wikipediareview.com/blo...wikimedia-and-wikia/ (http://wikipediareview.com/blog/20070821/the-tight-knit-web-of-wikimedia-and-wikia/)

you know what I mean. The wiki can't be cited as evidence to anything. If you are looking for a good read by all means visit it, but hey often assume things, for instance before this week, it said that Ezio and Altair were related and cited AC2 as it's source.

blazefp
07-26-2011, 07:04 AM
there are 6 apples and 2 staffs. The papal staff was destroyed in Tunguska and one of the apples was destroyed in Denver. Only remains the URSS staff (it's not the real name, I can't remember it) a shred of the papal staff (I think), 5 apples and 42 other PoE

dchil279
07-26-2011, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by blazefp:
there are 6 apples and 2 staffs. The papal staff was destroyed in Tunguska and one of the apples was destroyed in Denver. Only remains the URSS staff (it's not the real name, I can't remember it) a shred of the papal staff (I think), 5 apples and 42 other PoE
I thought the papal staff was kept under the vatican vault, and the other staff was destroyed in the tunguska incident.

Pavan_NL
07-26-2011, 07:30 AM
Has it ever been stated that Altair left the apple at Cyprus? Because at the end of AC:Bloodlines he decides to keep it with him.

twenty_glyphs
07-26-2011, 08:02 AM
This is another one of those things where everything has not been stated specifically and we have had to assume some things. Altaïr's Codex strongly implies he hid his Apple in Cyprus later in his life, much later than the Bloodlines game. One page is a drawing of Cyprus, and near the end Altaïr says he'll take the Apple to the island -- "once theirs, now ours" and he says there's a treasury there. So you assume he's talking about the Templar archive on Cyprus seen in Bloodlines that the Assassins captured. This is strongly implied to be where the Templars got the Apple seen in Sequence 11 of AC2 that Ezio steals.

In Brotherhood, the issue of when Ezio hid the Apple is incredibly vague. Rebecca says at the beginning that Ezio hid it sometime in 1507. So when you reach Ezio's 1507 memory of killing Cesare Borgia, you see Ezio hiding the Apple after he kills Cesare. You also see weird visions and glitches around the beginning and end of the Cesare sequence, and it makes it all very mysterious. Then in the Da Vinci Disappearance, which happens in 1506, Ezio tells Leonardo that the Apple has been put to rest. So it seems Ezio hid the Apple by 1506, but then why do you see the vision of it after a 1507 memory and why does Rebecca say it was 1507? Maybe Rebecca lied as a way to throw a traitor (Lucy or Shaun?) off the real scent. Maybe the Cesare memory was a vision from the Apple of the future, and the Animus got it confused and thought it was rendering a 1507 memory when it was really a vision from 1506. Rebecca did say when she tried to access the memory, Ezio seemed to be remembering something else.

So that brings us back to Lucy saying that Abstergo had the Apple from Masyaf and it was destroyed. It's possible that Lucy (and possibly Abstergo) didn't know about the real journey of the Apple from the first game. It's possible that Abstergo found an Apple in Masyaf that later got destroyed and Lucy simply assumed it was the same one they were seeing in Altaïr's memories. Or it could be some bigger mystery about what's really going on.

A production manager on the game tweeted in May in response to this question:


You're not wrong but the Apple’s exact timeline is a secret we will be revealing very soon... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://twitter.com/#!/AymarMtl...us/65796441062383616 (http://twitter.com/#!/AymarMtl/status/65796441062383616)

Poodle_of_Doom
07-26-2011, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by twenty_glyphs:
This is another one of those things where everything has not been stated specifically and we have had to assume some things. Altaïr's Codex strongly implies he hid his Apple in Cyprus later in his life, much later than the Bloodlines game. One page is a drawing of Cyprus, and near the end Altaïr says he'll take the Apple to the island -- "once theirs, now ours" and he says there's a treasury there. So you assume he's talking about the Templar archive on Cyprus seen in Bloodlines that the Assassins captured. This is strongly implied to be where the Templars got the Apple seen in Sequence 11 of AC2 that Ezio steals.

In Brotherhood, the issue of when Ezio hid the Apple is incredibly vague. Rebecca says at the beginning that Ezio hid it sometime in 1507. So when you reach Ezio's 1507 memory of killing Cesare Borgia, you see Ezio hiding the Apple after he kills Cesare. You also see weird visions and glitches around the beginning and end of the Cesare sequence, and it makes it all very mysterious. Then in the Da Vinci Disappearance, which happens in 1506, Ezio tells Leonardo that the Apple has been put to rest. So it seems Ezio hid the Apple by 1506, but then why do you see the vision of it after a 1507 memory and why does Rebecca say it was 1507? Maybe Rebecca lied as a way to throw a traitor (Lucy or Shaun?) off the real scent. Maybe the Cesare memory was a vision from the Apple of the future, and the Animus got it confused and thought it was rendering a 1507 memory when it was really a vision from 1506. Rebecca did say when she tried to access the memory, Ezio seemed to be remembering something else.

So that brings us back to Lucy saying that Abstergo had the Apple from Masyaf and it was destroyed. It's possible that Lucy (and possibly Abstergo) didn't know about the real journey of the Apple from the first game. It's possible that Abstergo found an Apple in Masyaf that later got destroyed and Lucy simply assumed it was the same one they were seeing in Altaïr's memories. Or it could be some bigger mystery about what's really going on.

A production manager on the game tweeted in May in response to this question:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You're not wrong but the Apple’s exact timeline is a secret we will be revealing very soon... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://twitter.com/#!/AymarMtl...us/65796441062383616 (http://twitter.com/#!/AymarMtl/status/65796441062383616) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good info...

dchil279
07-26-2011, 10:44 AM
@twenty_glyphs

I agree with everything that you said. But the fact is that if it is revealed that "abstergo was wrong all along, the apple that was destroyed wasn't the same apple" then it is a retcon because that's not what they originally intended.

orionsrise
07-26-2011, 11:48 AM
Possible workarounds. In the first game we are told 2 contridictory things. Number one that the apple was destroyed in denver and a staff in tungusta, and the second The waanted to tie all things conspiracy to Abstergo and the P.O.E.s and wrote themselvs in a corner a little so instead of Tesla destroying the staff. they use his tech to convince and FOOL the templars into thinking its gone then stealing the artifact away and no more templars searching for that particular P.O.E. It really is a crummy workaround but its the best my peabrain can come up with.

blazefp
07-26-2011, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by blazefp:
there are 6 apples and 2 staffs. The papal staff was destroyed in Tunguska and one of the apples was destroyed in Denver. Only remains the URSS staff (it's not the real name, I can't remember it) a shred of the papal staff (I think), 5 apples and 42 other PoE
I thought the papal staff was kept under the vatican vault, and the other staff was destroyed in the tunguska incident. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most likely that sry

twenty_glyphs
07-26-2011, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by dchil279:
@twenty_glyphs

I agree with everything that you said. But the fact is that if it is revealed that "abstergo was wrong all along, the apple that was destroyed wasn't the same apple" then it is a retcon because that's not what they originally intended.

Well I'd rather them tell a better story that they came up with 2 years ago than tell a weaker story they originally intended to tell 4 years ago. Having Altaïr's Apple be special and passed on to Ezio and then Desmond is more interesting to me than just having it destroyed in an accident. It would be one thing if they changed something really big and just threw tons of continuity out the window. But saying Lucy was wrong, or lying, or confused, or even something else is going on, just to explain one line of dialog, is fine with me.

That whole conversation is weird anyway. Just after telling Desmond that the artifact from Masyaf was destroyed at Denver, Lucy tells Desmond that "everything's Denver" means everything is fine. Why in the world would they be using that expression just after an accident at Denver that set them back to mean everything's fine? That makes zero sense. Something is very fishy about most of the dialog in the present of all the games.

@orionsrise: As for the Staff, that's not a contradiction. The Staff was definitely destroyed at Tunguska. All that remained was a splinter of it, which Rasputin somehow obtained. Even just the splinter was incredibly powerful. Nikolaï Orelov eventually gets the splinter himself. If the Assassins had the Staff, why would they have been so interested in finding out what happened to it at Tunguska when finding out Daniel's ancestor had something to do with it?

LightRey
07-26-2011, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by blazefp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by blazefp:
there are 6 apples and 2 staffs. The papal staff was destroyed in Tunguska and one of the apples was destroyed in Denver. Only remains the URSS staff (it's not the real name, I can't remember it) a shred of the papal staff (I think), 5 apples and 42 other PoE
I thought the papal staff was kept under the vatican vault, and the other staff was destroyed in the tunguska incident. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most likely that sry </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
actually no. I checked the glyphs and "both" staffs are called PoE #34, so they should be the same.

CRUDFACE
07-26-2011, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by dchil279:
@twenty_glyphs

I agree with everything that you said. But the fact is that if it is revealed that "abstergo was wrong all along, the apple that was destroyed wasn't the same apple" then it is a retcon because that's not what they originally intended.

Yeah, it's a retcon, the only one I believe but not surprisingly, a lot of people didn't know about it since it was tucked away for people who actually wanted to read those emails from off of AC1. Back when emails said more than Shaun making rabit jokes and asking for pasta.

...

...

Anyways, so while it was, it's been change to be better and fit the story. Actually, so was Eagle vision where the colors were supposed to help Desmond actually became a staple and they changed it around so that the colors weren't just for something outside of the animus.

Still, I'm wondering about this staff stuff? Was it just a communication accident between the developers and writers? IDK, lets hope not anyways. We need more info on this...

blazefp
07-26-2011, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by blazefp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by blazefp:
there are 6 apples and 2 staffs. The papal staff was destroyed in Tunguska and one of the apples was destroyed in Denver. Only remains the URSS staff (it's not the real name, I can't remember it) a shred of the papal staff (I think), 5 apples and 42 other PoE
I thought the papal staff was kept under the vatican vault, and the other staff was destroyed in the tunguska incident. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most likely that sry </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
actually no. I checked the glyphs and "both" staffs are called PoE #34, so they should be the same. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


or that

twenty_glyphs
07-26-2011, 03:29 PM
Yeah, no one has confirmed the status of the Papal Staff and Russian Royal Staff being the same. The Truth in AC2 shows them and labels them both "PE 34". In one of the pictures there, it's the Russian version with the fleur-de-lis as its decorative top. It seems like they are both the same, though how its appearance changed is a mystery. The original cover for AC: The Fall #2 had the Staff with the same design as the Papal Staff in AC2, but the final cover showed the version with the fleur-de-lis.

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/7359/assassinscreedthefall2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/assassinscreedthefall2.jpg/)

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2766/acfall002coversmall1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/acfall002coversmall1.jpg/)

blazefp
07-26-2011, 03:40 PM
LOL Ubi and their epic fails! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif