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XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 09:17 AM
Now, i do occasionally fly my La5FN and my pe8. But the ultimate plane is the P47D27. Yes it might handle like a pig, or it cannot climb. BUT its fun to fly, and isnt that why we bought this game? If anyone here is having no sucess with the plane then ask VMF HAVOK he seems to know alot, also people with -47|FC im there sig. The weapons are great, when your going head on with someone, u know you got a kill.Also you can carry bombs for bombing runs or rockets for taking out bombers. I have NEVER ran out of fuel with this plane.Very reliable.
So in conclusion, the P47D27 is arguably the best or one of the best planes in IL2 FB.Your thoughts?

http://www.x-plane.org/users/12thiaptbone/viper.jpg
47|FC

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 09:17 AM
Now, i do occasionally fly my La5FN and my pe8. But the ultimate plane is the P47D27. Yes it might handle like a pig, or it cannot climb. BUT its fun to fly, and isnt that why we bought this game? If anyone here is having no sucess with the plane then ask VMF HAVOK he seems to know alot, also people with -47|FC im there sig. The weapons are great, when your going head on with someone, u know you got a kill.Also you can carry bombs for bombing runs or rockets for taking out bombers. I have NEVER ran out of fuel with this plane.Very reliable.
So in conclusion, the P47D27 is arguably the best or one of the best planes in IL2 FB.Your thoughts?

http://www.x-plane.org/users/12thiaptbone/viper.jpg
47|FC

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 09:22 AM
I agree it's a very good plane. Just hard to fly effectively.

Nic

http://www.randomhouse.com/kids/art/authorphoto/cookie.jpg

michapma
09-01-2003, 10:01 AM
I don't guess the P-47 was ever meant to be a solo fighter, as most of the planes are so often used online. Get a group of them together and use team tactics and its deficiencies might not seem so dramatic.

I have had a lot of fun making bombing runs with it, but I usually don't make it back home.

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
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Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
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XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 10:03 AM
I thought this was going to be a thread about b00bs./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 10:47 AM
Some people always now how to comment a thread /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

commie1 wrote:
- I thought this was going to be a thread about
- b00bs

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XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 10:55 AM
the jug isnt for loners. if you dont have wingmen you will die. people will climb up then hunt you down. IMO guns are still undermodelled and of course roll rate makes it difficult to b an z when they know your diving on them. i dont see the roll rate getting fixed at least for six months if at all. its fun for a change but it cant fight K4s,Doras,or fw190A9s if an ace is in them.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 12:20 PM
Stick to your Pe8

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fluke39
09-01-2003, 01:16 PM
commie1 wrote:
- I thought this was going to be a thread about
- b00bs.



you thought b00bs ruled the skies?? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 01:44 PM
commie1 wrote:
- I thought this was going to be a thread about
- b00bs.



you thought b00bs ruled the skies??


They rules the skies, the seas and the ground!

"Death before Unconsciousness" - Uncle Duke

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 02:03 PM
YEAH RIGHT

everyone deep down in their hearts knows that the HAWKER TYPHOON, the most revered and feared , ugliest and heaviest, most effective and awe inspiring heavy fighter of the second world war would bounce a p-47 back to the US-of A



LOOK OUT TYPHOON'S COMIN' TO GET YA'

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 02:09 PM
Yeah. Love those Typhoons.

Just don't ever read what Johnny Johnson said about them.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 04:56 PM
I tend to never get any kills with that one,even faild to down a JU87 (no ammo left /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif )I guess those fiftys aint a freind of mine /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_113_1062255625.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 05:24 PM
Hello,

I think they make excellent ground attack aircraft and can take a hugh ammount of punishment. The variety of roles for this aircaft make it well worth learning, and the extra ammo aspect is nice.

I never fly any of them, but I do like all the possibilities of the weapon loadouts.

I would think they are better suited to teamwork missions rather than single flight and fight.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 05:29 PM
It is best flown with a flight of other Jug's, and the more you fly the more you get the "feel" of th eplane and it's limitations. I rarely fly anything other than the Jug, even in DF server's don't matter to me. Nothing better than skip bombing a couple of 500's then fighting your way out back home. Want to experiment on what a Jug can really do, find the 361st in HL and fly with us for a couple of missions or in a DF server and see what we can do in our flying pigs. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center> <center> www.361stvfg.com</center> (http://www.361stvfg.com</center>)
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XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 06:50 PM
I think the .50cal MGs in this game are undermodeled. You here countless pilots who used .50 cal guns in their fighters talk about turning their adversaries into swiss cheese with a 1 or 1.5 second burst of their guns.. I still think they need to be beefed up a little..just look at the hurricane C, A burst those 20mm cannon hit with fury but the la-7 with the same guns sometimes rarely put a dent in a plane.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 07:10 PM
1 on 1 is tough..but team tactics make the jug amazing

Steaks
375th FS

Is it Pets Mart...or Pet Smart????

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 07:41 PM
Slickun wrote:
- Yeah. Love those Typhoons.
-
- Just don't ever read what Johnny Johnson said about
- them.

What did he say what did he say?

Nic

http://www.randomhouse.com/kids/art/authorphoto/cookie.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 07:50 PM
Sure you want to hear this? You could read "Wing Leader" and find out for yours....

When discussing the need for a long ranged fighter, a la the Mustang, for the RAF, Johnson (he of the 38 kills) stated the Typhoon would be nice except it couldn't survive in the air with enemy fighters.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 07:59 PM
I like the Jug too, but it's definetly a "team" player, imo. In fact, having read Robert S. Johnson's book "Thunderbolt!", and also "JG26/Top Guns of the Luftwaffe" it's plain to me that a pilot alone in a Jug will die. So I don't think it's the sort of plane to fly in DF on HL unless one has a (good) wingman. Also, I don't thing the -27 is the best "dogfighter" variant. Someone correct on that point if I'm wrong.

The Jug got it's respect in the Western theatre. I think one of the highest scoring groups, the 56th, scored only 1/2 kill less than the 4th fighter group which ended up flying the Mustang (another team plane).

It's worth mentioning that these BIG American fighters were designed with a different mindset from our Allies in the East. American fighters in the west had to fly high and far. The Jug was originally designed to down bombers. The Mustang was intended, by the USAAF, as a high altitude bomber escort. They had to carry a lot of gas to go the distances as part of a STRATEGIC effort. The Soviet fighters were designed to provide TACTICAL support for their advancing armies. They did need to have the long legs of their western counterparts, and were generally lighter, and more nimble.

Finally (yeah, sum it up!) I think those who want to fly the best variants of both the Jug, and the Mustang as dogfighters in the HL should look to the earlier versions. It seems to me that the bubble canopies in the later versions made them less agile. Even Chuck Yeager said the Mustang was a handful,and that you had to stay ahead of it to be effective with it. Give me the P51b or c over the D any day.
time for a breather now
T

Speed is Life! But being a good shot comes in handy too. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 08:18 PM
yes it is a fun plane; also but the most of the people fly it below 2k, on that altitud you are dead meat. this baby needs to be high and it is a zoom & boom plaforme quiet efectived if it used properlly.

I learn that from a player name PVO on the AKA wardogs server last week, he came to me from at least 3.5k and cash me by surprise on a k4 ( I did not expect a vvs plane to do a Z&B and i was at 2.6k) i survived the attack but with heavy damage wing that force me to crash land and also he took out three more plane, and one thing he did was not go below 2k , also it could reach at least 800 KM/h on a dive so you could ecape any plane, doing it in the right moment. I mean with not a dora at your six o clock /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 08:24 PM
Great plane for ground attacks.

25th_Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 08:32 PM
RedDeth wrote:
- the jug isnt for loners. if you dont have wingmen
- you will die. people will climb up then hunt you
- down. IMO guns are still undermodelled and of course
- roll rate makes it difficult to b an z when they
- know your diving on them. i dont see the roll rate
- getting fixed at least for six months if at all. its
- fun for a change but it cant fight K4s,Doras,or
- fw190A9s if an ace is in them.
-



Oh, you be wrong. Sooo wrong. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I've flown the Jug without a wingman and done really well lots of times (only on servers that allow vulching, but still...).

What you need to do is this:
1) Load up a Jug with all the explosives she can carry and at least 50% fuel.
2) T/O and climb to 3000 m.
3) Fly towards the enemy base doing a semi-circle to avoid the center where all the action is (gain more altitude here if you want to).
4) Circle 500-1000 m from the enemy base and look for spawning planes (the more the merrier).
5) When you see enough planes to wet your appetite begin to dive towards them with 0% throttle (you'll accellerate fast enough).
6) Drop bombs where applicable.
7) Throttle up to 110% and zoom back up to 1500 m then either turn-climb around or half-roll and pull through.
8) Dive down and pick off the guys who spawned again too soon with the rockets.
9) Zoom back up to 1500 minmum with full throttle and turn-climb out of the danger zone.
10) Head home doing a semi-circle again with 90-95% throttle.

By doing this you'll drop your heavy drag inducing load first, get two attack runs on the target, and maintain speed, altitude and initiative to disengage if someone tries to bounce you. Just stay away from the AAA (send someone in to take it out first...). Now go practice! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif "Wax on, wax off..."

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 08:47 PM
Ketalar, these were almost the exact tactics the P-47 jocks used in the PTO. Fly in high, one, maybe two passes at impossible speeds for the Japanese to match, and go home. Worked like a charm. The P-47's were dang near invulnerable to air attack.

P-51 wasn't designed for escort. It came with an Allison engine, and was a low to mid level plane. The Merlin addition made an outstanding low level plane outstanding from the ground up to 30,000 feet.

The D was heavier and more robust. Pilots generally liked it better due to visibility and increased firepower. It was generally faster than the B/C up to roughly 15,000 feet, then generally slower, depending on when the blowers kicked in. The two types had superchargers that kicked in at different altitudes. The B/C versions were availabe until the end of the war in both hemispheres, in large numbers. You like them better, they were available from Dec 1943 until VJ day. Fly em.

For goodness sakes. The Mustang would not be flying with a full fuselage tank anywhere near enemy planes. Maybe SOME gas in it, but after burning off about half the tank the C/G was fine for combat.

This is a non-issue. The chance of an 8th AF being jumped with a full fuselage tank over England or the Channel were remote. If it was some sort of mission where the enemy would be sighted immediately, the tank would remain dry, the Mustang still having outstanding range with wing and drop tanks alone. A non-issue, I tell you. Forget it. It was used to ferry the Mustang into harms way from a long way away, far outside the ranges of enemy fighters.

Zayets
09-01-2003, 08:52 PM
Team!
All American planes were built with this in mind.Never alone , never let down your partner. Everybody will come home , well , who's able to. Jug , Mustang , Hawk , Hellcat , Wildcat , Bearcat , you name it! One on one they are dead meat , but where's at least two they can beat four enemies if flown right , or at least survive. Never dogfight when alone in those planes , get at least a partner and you will rule the skies. Offline I fly always with a wingman in my Jug , when online , well , nowaday ppl took FW , yesterday was the Bf and the Yaks. Everytime when somebody picks me as target and I'm alone in my Jug I cant counter attack , so I have to run , like hell ... if I can. get a wingman , you'll not be disapointed.

Zayets out

http://www.arr.go.ro/iar81c.JPG

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 08:58 PM
Salute

Wrong.

Jugs don't rule the skies. They barely survive if they are flown extremely carefully.

They are currently severely undermodelled although it appears that some of those issues will be addressed.

Historically, P-47's are clearly documented as being able to fight 1 on 1 with any plane the Germans had.

That is not to say they could low speed turnfight with a 109, but they were capable of dealing with one if the correct tactics were used.

The myth that 'All American planes are poor one on one", is exactly that... a myth.


RAF74 Buzzsaw

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 09:02 PM
AHS_VIPER wrote:
- Now, i do occasionally fly my La5FN and my pe8. But
- the ultimate plane is the P47D27. Yes it might
- handle like a pig, or it cannot climb. BUT its fun
- to fly, and isnt that why we bought this game? If
- anyone here is having no sucess with the plane then
- ask VMF HAVOK he seems to know alot, also people
- with -47|FC im there sig. The weapons are great,
- when your going head on with someone, u know you got
- a kill.Also you can carry bombs for bombing runs or
- rockets for taking out bombers. I have NEVER ran out
- of fuel with this plane.Very reliable.
- So in conclusion, the P47D27 is arguably the best or
- one of the best planes in IL2 FB.Your thoughts?
-

My thoughts are that its a big hunk of junk thanks to its attrocious roll rate. Now maybe after Oleg fixes that, it'll be playable. Until then, I can name a truckload of planes I'd rather fly.



<center>http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/images/trackwerks400.jpg (http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 09:03 PM
Slickun:

I guess I'm a natural born Jugs handler (fondler?) then! Haven't read anything about the tactics that were used, just found that those worked best. Thanks for making me feel good! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 09:07 PM
Zayets wrote:
- Team!
- All American planes were built with this in
- mind.Never alone , never let down your partner.
- Everybody will come home , well , who's able to. Jug
- , Mustang , Hawk , Hellcat , Wildcat , Bearcat , you
- name it! One on one they are dead meat , but where's
- at least two they can beat four enemies if flown
- right , or at least survive. Never dogfight when
- alone in those planes , get at least a partner and
- you will rule the skies. Offline I fly always with a
- wingman in my Jug , when online , well , nowaday ppl
- took FW , yesterday was the Bf and the Yaks.
- Everytime when somebody picks me as target and I'm
- alone in my Jug I cant counter attack , so I have to
- run , like hell ... if I can. get a wingman , you'll
- not be disapointed.
-
- Zayets out


Actually.....this applies to all planes.

And the Hellcat and Bearcat were more than adequate in 1 on 1 situations. The Hellcat could dogfight with Zeros for god's sake. The Bearcat was a Hellcat on a diet and steroids.

If I could have a properly modeled F6F-5, I'd fly it almost exclusively in DF servers and be lovin' life.

If I could have a properly modeled F8F-1 (to say nothing of the -2, but that is too late even for the '46 project - though being a prop fighter should be included anyway. [eg]), I'd take any plane on 1 on 1. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 09:30 PM
Look who's back!

25th_Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 09:52 PM
Ketalar your tactics in jug using bombs and diving will get you incinerated in DF servers non stop unless your flying against newbies. you have no chance. unless your in a cockpit on server with no externals and no icons. then you have nothing to worry about and the jug rocks in those servers. otherwise your tactics will get you killed. youll never make it back home normally. also what someone else said holds true. two online aces in jug winging if high can hold off four enemy planes . once you go from one to two the game becomes balanced. and if you get three then not much can touch you but you still wont get many kills as you cant go down to the deck even with 3 jugs . too risky.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

Message Edited on 09/01/0308:52PM by RedDeth