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TC_Stele
04-13-2006, 02:09 AM
Hey guys. I've tried this but usually end up with cannon rounds in my butt. However I've seen some guys online master this in the FW-190, F6F, P-47 and a lot of other boom and zoomers.

How do you pull away and climb without losing too much speed and energy while at the same time knowing how far away the bandit on your six is? When I fly those planes as a BnZr I usually don't have to worry about having lost that advantage of altitude, but sometimes they do a fine job of making me lose that altitude and energy and I have to start all over again?

I was flying Iceman's Hellcat Campaign, and OMG, the F6F can be a frustrating plane to master. Even after flying 28 missions I could not get it right. I'd start with the alt advantage but slowly lose it. (note: the ai wingmen are worthless sometimes, they just wouldnt or couldnt help me) And the Zeros just knew when to get me. I couldn't pull away even in very slight climbs and it was difficult to gauge how far behind me they were so I'd know when to turn back and engage.

Please give me anything you've got for help, I really want to master that Hellcat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

WOLFMondo
04-13-2006, 03:10 AM
Pulling away in the Hellcat will only really work against IJA Zero's because for a mid/late war aircraft its very very slow, its not even capable of 400mph. Us a shallow climb to extend away, to check your 6 go to the gun sight view, look back and roll which will help you retain energy, you could sideslip to check your 6 but that really takes some speed off.

One thing to remember is the AI cheats.

Also altitude is important. Extending in a P47 at low altitude against a 190 in a shallow climb won't work because the 190 is very good in shallow climbs, arguably better than anything else, and has all its power down low. Try the same thing at 25,000ft and the P47 will pull away from the 190 easily. Like the P47, the Hellcat will have an easier time at altitude compared to the Zero.

zoinks_
04-13-2006, 05:42 AM
i hate the big blue barn. mine is filled with fidgety livestock.

R_Target
04-13-2006, 06:34 AM
You have to be a real penny pincher with the E and the altitude if you want to survive in the Hellcat. If you have to dive to the deck, do a spiral dive. Just a vertical dive usually won't work because the Zero's initial dive accel. is as good or better than the Hellcat's and he will catch you before you can build up speed. If you find yourself on the deck with tracers flashing by, firewall the throttle (ignore the overheat, you got 10 minutes to get away before the engine blows up) and kick the rudder a little bit. The little cheaters are terrible deflection shooters and will miss most of the shots if you keep the plane yawing. Don't roll-one hit to the wings and you'll spin into the drink. Also, don't be afraid to turn if you're going faster than 300mph. And don't try to outclimb them below 15,000ft.

Jumoschwanz
04-13-2006, 11:37 PM
Flying against any AI is not going to yield any logical or historic results because the AI enemies can do things that they should not be able to do.

In real life the zero was not a plane that could dive at all well enough to use it in any tactical way.

In this sim though you can be at seven thousand meters and dive for the deck in a jet and the pursuing zeros will still be a threat to you!

With the dive this screwed up in the AI, a lot more of their flight model is going to be suspect to. Go online and fly your Hellcat against other human pilots and you will do much better in zoom and boom, and you will be able to break away from them at will in a fast shallow climb or shallow dive. Fighting against the AI is total bu lls hit.

mortoma
04-15-2006, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
Flying against any AI is not going to yield any logical or historic results because the AI enemies can do things that they should not be able to do.

In real life the zero was not a plane that could dive at all well enough to use it in any tactical way.

In this sim though you can be at seven thousand meters and dive for the deck in a jet and the pursuing zeros will still be a threat to you!

With the dive this screwed up in the AI, a lot more of their flight model is going to be suspect to. Go online and fly your Hellcat against other human pilots and you will do much better in zoom and boom, and you will be able to break away from them at will in a fast shallow climb or shallow dive. Fighting against the AI is total bu lls hit. Sure the AI do things they should not be able to do, but nobody seems to realize they don't or can't do things they very well SHOULD be able to do.

One thing that really amazes me is the AIs inability to turn as tight as they should in a given aircraft, or even close to as good as they should!! How many times have I flown against AI in very tight turning aircraft, like an I-16 when I was in some marginal turning plane like a Emil, and after about 4 or 5 turn circles I'm on their butts!! People seem to forget about that stuff and concentrate on what the AI does that should be impossible or nearly so. Even when they fly a Zero you can turn with them and eventually out turn them in a H'cat, when if a human noob flew the Zero that would simply not happen.

So please, don't forget about the stuff the AI doesn't do that it should do. This is only one example. But somehow everybody forgets about that stuff.

FritzGryphon
04-15-2006, 08:18 PM
Most would like the AI planes to be impotent, and the flak never hit.

Just fly around in pretty patterns, and shoot tracers around them for show. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

idonno
04-16-2006, 06:28 AM
mortoma,

What you've pointed out is only that the AI is even more screwed up than many people seem to realize.

You talk as if we who complain about the AI only want them to be easier to shoot down. That's simply not the case. We just want them to fly with some semblance of realism.

mortoma
04-16-2006, 11:32 AM
Yea, you're right, we all want them to fly more realistically.

AnaK774
04-17-2006, 05:42 AM
Bit lz so didnt read the whole thread, sorry in advance.

When engaging ai planes keep in mind:

AI dont blackout/redout = no highspeed handling advantage for planes that should have one
AI doesnt overheat = in planes that dont have generous cooling model, you get shorter stick in long run
AI always sees you = when you come to 250m behind em and have guns solution they evade, clouds aint safe
AI does have bit generous dive spd limits = they exeed vmax of several planes
AI doesnt get frustrated or scared = they follow you to heaviest base flak or chase until they run out of ammo/fuel
AI dont stall without damage = but sometimes one bullethole is enough if u lure it low
AI has its flaws, its not so effective close to deck = you can outturn most AI planes in worse plane below 200ft

If youre B&Z:ing:
Make your first pass only pass you need per target.
Carefully nurse your energy, shallow zooms, ball on center, always trimmed.
Always presume your enemy has double of energy you think he has.
Before you start to be on disadvantageous positon, have solution for it, friendly taskforce nearby is sometimes your best wingman.
If you dont know what aircraft youre shooting at, DON'T shoot.
Always attack highest hostile target first.
If you dont have exit planned from attack, DON'T attack.

Cya up there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Texan...
04-25-2006, 10:39 AM
To the original poster it's all about experience. Being able to judge your E state relative to th bogey and whether or not he can catch you. Unfortunately zeros defy gravity in this game so trying to out zoom or speed climb away from them is a very, very risky move.