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View Full Version : Poll: TrackIR and the gunsight view



TheFamilyMan
09-23-2008, 10:20 AM
I've found that for most planes (except German fighters), I no longer need to use the gunsight view because I use TrackIR with the 6DOF mod. How about you?

TheFamilyMan
09-23-2008, 10:20 AM
I've found that for most planes (except German fighters), I no longer need to use the gunsight view because I use TrackIR with the 6DOF mod. How about you?

Urufu_Shinjiro
09-23-2008, 10:36 AM
I voted option 3 but I really only use the gunsight view on planes where the gunsight is really far to the right or not in line vertically. I'm sure I could adjust my trackir profile to not need this but I'm lazy, lol.

Sirrith
09-23-2008, 10:47 AM
I voted 3, but only on planes where I cant see the centre of the reticle

Bearcat99
09-23-2008, 11:23 AM
I use the zoom view.. still.. For certain planes I just lean to my right until the reticle lines up..

TheCrux
09-23-2008, 11:49 AM
None of the above:

I use Track IR w/no mods ( no 6 DOF ) and I rarely use the gunsight view. ( tunnel vision + too jerky )

WTE_Galway
09-24-2008, 12:19 AM
Do not use mods but even if if I did I have no interest in 6DOF.

I tried it in FSX and my reaction was "so what is all the fuss about?" I sactually regretted paying to upgrade my trackIR to be 6dof capable it was a bit of a disappointment.

Then again back in my online days I never seemed to have the trouble other people had with the infamous "fw190bar" either.

mmitch10
09-24-2008, 02:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheCrux:
None of the above:

I use Track IR w/no mods ( no 6 DOF ) and I rarely use the gunsight view. ( tunnel vision + too jerky ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same as TheCrux

iRuffy
09-24-2008, 03:41 AM
Does Track IR have full 3D movement on IL2?

Looking at their site I was under the impression it only had up,down,left and right. Not near,far, slide left,right, increase/decrease height and twist?


I watched the Vid on MS flight sim, and it has ALL the movement on that??

Spinnetti
09-24-2008, 05:26 AM
None of the above...

My install is fully modded, and I use trackir, but not the 6DOF mod. I simply don't use gunsight view except to id a plane once in a while. If you are firing that far out, you are firing too far out anyway. I actually set my default view one step wider as my default. I fly the Galland model... when I'm just about to hit the plane, one short burst of 20mm is all it takes.

Urufu_Shinjiro
09-24-2008, 11:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iRuffy:
Does Track IR have full 3D movement on IL2?

Looking at their site I was under the impression it only had up,down,left and right. Not near,far, slide left,right, increase/decrease height and twist?


I watched the Vid on MS flight sim, and it has ALL the movement on that?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is an unofficial mod that does allow for this, but stock, no , just up down left right.

bmoffa
09-24-2008, 12:25 PM
I find it amazing that there are that many that don't use a TrackIR. I wouldn't be playing IL-2 if I didn't have one.

TheFamilyMan
10-01-2008, 04:52 PM
As for gunsight view, I only mean using shift-F1. This does not zoom the view; it moves your head so its closer and centered on the gunsight. I find using the zoom view sort of cheating, especially if it's used with shift-F1; although one can argue it's equivalent to having binoculars (though no pilot used binoculars while dogfighting). Well, so much for being coy....bump!

R_Target
10-01-2008, 06:07 PM
Option #6: Use TIR (sans 6DOF) + gunsight view. I have "toggle gunsight" mapped to the stick.

gdfo
10-01-2008, 07:20 PM
Trk IR is a cheat.

Stingray333
10-01-2008, 07:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gdfo:
Trk IR is a cheat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

looking anywhere but straight ahead is a cheat

WTE_Galway
10-01-2008, 07:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gdfo:
Trk IR is a cheat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So is a joystick and big monitor http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

When I flew online I always dug out my old 14" CRT screen and flew with keyboard just so I did not get an unfair advantage over the casual players logging in from mums computer.

R_Target
10-01-2008, 08:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gdfo:
Trk IR is a cheat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So is a joystick and big monitor http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Being skilled is a cheat too, as it creates an unfair advantage over the unskilled. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

skarden
10-01-2008, 08:31 PM
I just use the 6dof mod for all now,although when in german planes i move my head to the left and re-centre the trackir to make the gunsite seem like it's centered,works a treat as i cant stand not havin the full 6dof goodness anymore http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

trackir a cheat?

LOLOLOLOLOLOHAHAHAHAHMWAAAHAHAHAHAHA *takes deep breath*LOLHAHAHAHALOMWAMWAMWAHAHAHHA

ah good stuff http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Billy_DeLyon
10-01-2008, 09:14 PM
I use 6dof some of the time, but when I do I like to go to gunsight view (thereby going back to 2dof) when lining up a shot.. Otherwise, my excessive body english tends to throw off my aim!

Von_Rat
10-02-2008, 01:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I find using the zoom view sort of cheating, especially if it's used with shift-F1; although one can argue it's equivalent to having binoculars (though no pilot used binoculars while dogfighting). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


what your calling zoom view isnt the equivalent of using binoculars. its the equivalent of what you would see in real life if you weren't looking though a monitor.

the un zoomed views are actually zoomed out from the real life view. this is done to give you a wider field of view on your monitor.

P.FunkAdelic
10-02-2008, 02:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
the un zoomed views are actually zoomed out from the real life view. this is done to give you a wider field of view on your monitor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because if you've ever seen games that simulate peripheral vision it just screws with you too much. Zoomed out with a milder wide aspect angle replicates the more realistic human perception around you than always being stuck at one resolution.

If you think about it the way we perceive the world is so much more complex and the way we consciously change the way our vision is focuses cannot be recreated on a screen, even with the most advanced IR set up.

Vacillator
10-02-2008, 02:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R_Target:
Option #6: Use TIR (sans 6DOF) + gunsight view. I have "toggle gunsight" mapped to the stick. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here as I only have TIR2 with no 6DOF. Or am I missing something?

AnaK774
10-02-2008, 03:43 AM
Well, using hatswitch and microstick of throttle on mouse emulation mode combo here...

TIR is for newbies or for ones that don't have problems with wearing hat indoors http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

x6BL_Brando
10-02-2008, 05:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AnaK774:
Well, using hatswitch and microstick of throttle on mouse emulation mode combo here...

TIR is for newbies or for ones that don't have problems with wearing hat indoors http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or maybe for one-armed aces, and people who don't mind paying a little extra to get more immersion in their favourite sim. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

&lt;S&gt; Anak

Oh, and the hat is quite useful for scaring away the doorstep evangelists and carpet salesmen - even better if you have the vector clip attached http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

DuckyFluff
10-02-2008, 08:34 AM
Much more effective if you have the "dots" as I used to have and wear them on your forehead, when you tell them you worship Satan they actually believe you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

BTW wearing the dots down to the pub is not recommended http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

TheFamilyMan
10-02-2008, 09:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vacillator:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R_Target:
Option #6: Use TIR (sans 6DOF) + gunsight view. I have "toggle gunsight" mapped to the stick. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here as I only have TIR2 with no 6DOF. Or am I missing something? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I guess I goofed: there's no option for 'TIR and mods but do not use the 6DOF mod'. The 6DOF mod won't do anything for you unless your TIR supports 6DOF. TIR4 supports full 6DOF: 3DOF rotation + 3DOF translation. As for those who use a 6DOF TIR and mods but not the 6DOF mod, you are really missing out on the TIR experience (but only if you fly closed cockpit, for open cockpit the 6DOF mod would probably screw you up).

squareusr
10-02-2008, 01:13 PM
i use everything. lean left+recenter for off-center planes, gunsight view (mapped to tap on the touchpad of my throttlebox) in high-g or whenever i feel like i should concentrate more on flying & shooting than on keeping the crosshairs on the revi.

hated 6dof when i tried the mod for the first time (not very long ago), then i learned how to _massively_ reduce the range of head movement (down to ~20% of full amplitude) and loved it. much better immersion, can't enter the places where the crosshairs appear in revi-less air, enough movement to look around window frames (which you'd barely notice in real life, because no vertical bar would ever block the view for both eyes at the same time) and, most important: not very distracting.

VMF-214_HaVoK
10-02-2008, 02:35 PM
#3

Vacillator
10-03-2008, 02:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheFamilyMan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vacillator:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R_Target:
Option #6: Use TIR (sans 6DOF) + gunsight view. I have "toggle gunsight" mapped to the stick. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here as I only have TIR2 with no 6DOF. Or am I missing something? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I guess I goofed: there's no option for 'TIR and mods but do not use the 6DOF mod'. The 6DOF mod won't do anything for you unless your TIR supports 6DOF. TIR4 supports full 6DOF: 3DOF rotation + 3DOF translation. As for those who use a 6DOF TIR and mods but not the 6DOF mod, you are really missing out on the TIR experience (but only if you fly closed cockpit, for open cockpit the 6DOF mod would probably screw you up). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the confirmation that I'm not missing something! Now to find a cheap TIR4 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jex_TE
10-03-2008, 02:51 AM
Let's dispel this myth as trackir being a cheat. Before I had track/ir I used to use the hat switch. When in a dogfight, I had no problem keeping a bead on the enemy using the hat switch (I turned off that auto centre crap). Yes it took a while to become proficient but it wasn't long and it wasn't hard to do.

When I got track ir for the first time, I had a similar period of getting used to it. All it does is make it less effort to look around. It does not give you some magical ability to be better in a dogfight (I'll prove it to you sometime - come fly with me and I'll show you how bad at DF I am).

Getting back on topic - The OP means the Shift F1 view so I too am confused about this though I suspect what he really should have asked if when flying the german planes, do you use Shift F1? If that is the case, I use it when I'm up in the air but for take off and landing I use the default view.

Sturm_Williger
10-03-2008, 06:50 AM
I use TIR without 6DOF ( yet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) and use gunsight view.

Even with 6DOF though, I can't see myself not using the gunsight view, it's handy for plane id & aiming at specific points.

Crash_Moses
10-03-2008, 11:02 AM
Flying the SBD is a cheat. TIR is for immersion.

#3.

TheFamilyMan
10-03-2008, 04:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I find using the zoom view sort of cheating, especially if it's used with shift-F1; although one can argue it's equivalent to having binoculars (though no pilot used binoculars while dogfighting). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


what your calling zoom view isnt the equivalent of using binoculars. its the equivalent of what you would see in real life if you weren't looking though a monitor.

the un zoomed views are actually zoomed out from the real life view. this is done to give you a wider field of view on your monitor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What you say about zooming may be true providing that the zoomed reticle appears no larger on your screen than it would if you were actually piloting the real plane and properly using the gunsight. (Obviously the monitor's size comes into play here.) Have you ever sat in the fighter of your choice to see how big its gunsight reticle really appears when used properly? Reticle size and viewing distance charts anyone?

Von_Rat
10-03-2008, 04:49 PM
with all respect, its not "may be true", it is true. thats how the game is set up.

as far as reticle goes i have no idea if they have its relative size correct or not.

TheFamilyMan
10-03-2008, 05:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
with all respect, its not "may be true", it is true. thats how the game is set up.

as far as reticle goes i have no idea if they have its relative size correct or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Consider your statement:
"its the equivalent of what you would see in real life if you weren't looking though a monitor"

And my statement:
"the zoomed reticle appears no larger on your screen than it would if you were actually piloting the real plane and properly using the gunsight"

Doesn't "what you would see in real life" correspond to the experience of being in "the real plane"? My state about trueness in this context is not about whether using zoom is 'fake', but rather does the zoomed view of the reticle on the monitor's screen equate to at least very close approximation of reality, i.e. real life. And it all comes down to a matter of screen size. If you could use a 60" HDTV screen for a monitor everything in the cockpit would appear larger than in real life and there would be no need for zooming anything.

Thus I'll quote Pontius Pilate: "What is Truth?" (that's easy, it's all about of monitor size http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

Von_Rat
10-03-2008, 06:47 PM
my statment was simply meant to convey that the zoom view was not the same as using binoculars.

i have no idea about reticle size and i really dont care to debate whether its correct or not in the zoom view.

Feathered_IV
10-04-2008, 05:58 AM
6DoF for me too. Gives a whole new lease of life to planes like the P-38, Arado 234, Ki-43 and Beaufighter. Just to name a few. Thanks Leitmotiv for your tireless endorsement of the kit. I'd never have stepped up to it otherwise. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

R_Target
10-04-2008, 06:51 AM
Can someone tell me if V-Sync still needs to be disabled for 6DoF?

Feathered_IV
10-04-2008, 06:59 AM
Nope. I use it forced-on in NV settings and it works a treat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Choctaw111
10-04-2008, 08:02 AM
6DOF is good, and I like leaning in to the gunsight.
It is not so different to the pre-mod days when I used "zoom tracker". That was a nifty little app.

Rwulf__68
10-05-2008, 05:14 AM
Well, I went from using the hatswitch with buttons 3 & 4 on my FFB2 for around 6 years to TIR4 in the last 2 months and then to 6DOF in the past month. Playing nearly always in a modded version now with squad, going back to unmodded 2DOF seems very odd indeed.

The main difference I've found is that my judgement for deflection has improved considerably as with the 6DOF you feel more about getting the whole aircraft into a gun solution, hence getting far more aware of trim & rudder than ever before. That coupled with viewing most of the instruments far more frequently I've found enables you to almost subconsciously manage the whole aircraft,especially regarding engine management- I'm really looking forward being able to switch to different fuel tanks in the future!

In addition, moving around the the larger cockpits such as Ju88 & even Tempest is just fantastic & very immersive.

Yes, when you know of no other, hatswitch is good, but speaking from a very sceptical position remembering CFS UFOs in particular, I've been a strong convert to the AA group. To get endorsement to utilise the single installer as a patch (4.10 maybe) would definitely give credit where it's due.

My two cents, Rob.

Feathered_IV
10-05-2008, 06:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rwulf__68:
... with the 6DOF you feel more about getting the whole aircraft into a gun solution.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't agree more. There is a real feeling of being able to shoot "from the hip" that was never there before.

rhinomonkey
10-06-2008, 07:18 AM
its all about realism for me and i personally see the gun sight view as cheating (cheating realism that is). I lean in and line up my eyes with the sight as real pilots would have had to do. it adds immersion for me

Vipez-
10-06-2008, 08:06 AM
S!

I haven't flown for ages now, but I was thinking about making a come back next week.

Anyway, I used to own TrackIR 3, and quite frankly I never got used to it (in English I did not like it). I don't know if there was any improvements with TIR 4.

I probably have / had the most unique way to look around, I only use keypad to look around (patented technique http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ). And I think I did quite good with my weird habits looking around on online wars at this time..

So everyone have their own style. When Storm of war is released I think I will have to get used to TrackIR 8 eventually http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif..