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MEGILE
07-28-2005, 06:19 AM
Over the recent weeks it has come to my attention that admins are moving towards acceptance of the Me-262 in dogfight servers.. however I implore them to reconsider.

The Me-262 has no place on dogfight servers, and servers which claim to be full real which have the Me-262 are nothing short of a joke.

There are several reasons why the Me-262 should remain excluded.
First and foremost.. the logisitcal reasons. The netcode is unsuitable to handling the high speeds at which the Me-262 travels.
Further more it has been proven that the smoke trails from the enginges are a severe cause of lag, not to mention the extreme muzzle flashes which kill CPUs.

Secondly, the historical reasons.
Me-262 on a full real historical server? The admin has a sense of humor.
Me-262s were never around in great number, and only a handful flew combat sorties.
To create servers with hordes of Me-262s is just strengthening the imagination of those who like believe the Me-262 was a common sight in the air during WW2.
This scenario could not be further from the historical truth.. and we wouldn't want people to start having different and ultimately wrong perspectives of what happened in WW2 would we.

IMO, the Me-262 should be relegated to the QMB flights we often do when we want quick fun, and not serious simming.

Thirdly, this plane simply outclasses the Allied planes.. it does not make for a fair game when one team has Jet aircraft and the other team is restricted to propellor driven airplanes.

Thanks

GR142_Astro
07-28-2005, 06:31 AM
http://www.whaleharbormarina.com/images/florida_keys_fishing.jpg

http://www.edwards.af.mil/gallery/images/yeager-planes/p80-1_072.jpg

That should just about cover it.

F16_Neo
07-28-2005, 06:38 AM
Imo the Me-262's presence on a df-server can be justified if all following conditions are fulfilled:

The map represents a front/scenario where they historically appeared

They appear in limited numbers not to allow "hordes" of them, maybe 2 or 3 in the air at any given time (base radius or scripting). That way the "lag" problem can be minimized (if smoke from a few planes creates lotsa lag then we can't have man-mix planes either, same with speed, a few prop planes can reach Me262-speeds in dives).

They appear in maybe 1 mission in a server's rotation. I totally agree that they should't be a common sight. But nevertheless, some of them actually saw combat.

-----------------------------------------------
Dont know about any muzzleflash-stutters, might be a problem (but must have been worse pre-4.0 lol).

My 2 cents
/Neo

triggerhappyfin
07-28-2005, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by F16_Neo:
Imo the Me-262's presence on a df-server can be justified if both following conditions are fulfilled:

The map represents a front/scenario where they historically appeared

They appear in limited numbers not to allow "hordes" of them, maybe 2 or 3 in the air at any given time (base radius or scripting). That way the "lag" problem can be minimized (if smoke from a few planes creates lotsa lag then we can't have man-mix planes either, same with speed, a few prop planes can reach Me262-speeds in dives).

They appear in maybe 1 mission in a server's rotation. I totally agree that they should't be a common sight. But nevertheless, some of them actually saw combat.

-----------------------------------------------
Dont know about any muzzleflash-stutters, might be a problem (but must have been worse pre-4.0 lol).

My 2 cents
/Neo


I Agree fully http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

And an other thing..there are servers and there are servers...some servers mix planes of different times of war...planes which never met eachother IRL! On the other hand there are servers with appropriate planesettings based on time of event!

Which one to choose is up to anyone to decide by him self http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif.

Hristo_
07-28-2005, 07:30 AM
Fair enough.

Therefore i propose only selected Blue pilots fly the 262. For example, 3 highest ranking of 20 present. How about it ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

At the same time, no Red should fly the P-38L Late as it never saw service. It should just sit in virtual hanger.

stubby
07-28-2005, 07:42 AM
f the me262. just give me one of these puppies:

http://home.pon.net/hunnicutt/images/F22.jpg

Cajun76
07-28-2005, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by Hristo_:
Fair enough.

Therefore i propose only selected Blue pilots fly the 262. For example, 3 highest ranking of 20 present. How about it ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Of course, large numbers of Blue a/c should be grounded due to lack of fuel. As real as it gets, just spawn and get vulched. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Originally posted by Hristo_:
At the same time, no Red should fly the P-38L Late as it never saw service. It should just sit in virtual hanger.

There's no proof it didn't serve. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Pilot's hanbook is not what mechanics go by. The engines came from the factory @ 1725hp, and all the pilot had to do is push the throttle up. Mechanics service engines with TO's and info from tech reps, not pilot handbooks, which are just a guide, not law.

Repeating Kurfurst__'s deliberate misrepresentations often dosen't make them true. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

HoldSteady641
07-28-2005, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by Cajun76:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hristo_:
Fair enough.

Therefore i propose only selected Blue pilots fly the 262. For example, 3 highest ranking of 20 present. How about it ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Of course, large numbers of Blue a/c should be grounded due to lack of fuel. As real as it gets, just spawn and get vulched. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Originally posted by Hristo_:
At the same time, no Red should fly the P-38L Late as it never saw service. It should just sit in virtual hanger.

There's no proof it didn't serve. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Pilot's hanbook is not what mechanics go by. The engines came from the factory @ 1725hp, and all the pilot had to do is push the throttle up. Mechanics service engines with TO's and info from tech reps, not pilot handbooks, which are just a guide, not law.

Repeating Kurfurst__'s deliberate misrepresentations often dosen't make them true. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh no, not again... my toy can fly, yours cannot.. how many times do we wanna post this mini world war about forbidden planes? 'Cmon guys, let's dop Forgotten battles into Forbidden battles and we can fight in peace.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-28-2005, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
Over the recent weeks it has come to my attention that admins are moving towards acceptance of the Me-262 in dogfight servers.. however I implore them to reconsider.

The Me-262 has no place on dogfight servers, and servers which claim to be full real which have the Me-262 are nothing short of a joke.

There are several reasons why the Me-262 should remain excluded.
First and foremost.. the logisitcal reasons. The netcode is unsuitable to handling the high speeds at which the Me-262 travels.
Further more it has been proven that the smoke trails from the enginges are a severe cause of lag, not to mention the extreme muzzle flashes which kill CPUs.

Secondly, the historical reasons.
Me-262 on a full real historical server? The admin has a sense of humor.
Me-262s were never around in great number, and only a handful flew combat sorties.
To create servers with hordes of Me-262s is just strengthening the imagination of those who like believe the Me-262 was a common sight in the air during WW2.
This scenario could not be further from the historical truth.. and we wouldn't want people to start having different and ultimately wrong perspectives of what happened in WW2 would we.

IMO, the Me-262 should be relegated to the QMB flights we often do when we want quick fun, and not serious simming.

Thirdly, this plane simply outclasses the Allied planes.. it does not make for a fair game when one team has Jet aircraft and the other team is restricted to propellor driven airplanes.

Thanks

After I read this I thought, nah, won't catch anything with this smelly old bait.

You really are a reelmaster aren't you Megile. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Fritz

MEGILE
07-28-2005, 09:24 AM
If the Me-262 is allowed to fly, then why not the YP-80?
There is obvious blue bias amongst server admins on Hyper Lobby.

Hristo_
07-28-2005, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by Cajun76:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hristo_:
Fair enough.

Therefore i propose only selected Blue pilots fly the 262. For example, 3 highest ranking of 20 present. How about it ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Of course, large numbers of Blue a/c should be grounded due to lack of fuel. As real as it gets, just spawn and get vulched. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Originally posted by Hristo_:
At the same time, no Red should fly the P-38L Late as it never saw service. It should just sit in virtual hanger.

There's no proof it didn't serve. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Pilot's hanbook is not what mechanics go by. The engines came from the factory @ 1725hp, and all the pilot had to do is push the throttle up. Mechanics service engines with TO's and info from tech reps, not pilot handbooks, which are just a guide, not law.

Repeating Kurfurst__'s deliberate misrepresentations often dosen't make them true. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And of course, every Red pilot should fly 25 missions and log off for life.

There is no proof Millenium Falcon didn't serve with Luftwaffe. So, by your logic, it should be included.

SeaNorris
07-28-2005, 10:19 AM
Megile, your sig is gay.

skabbe
07-28-2005, 10:25 AM
how about using %%%%%%%%%% I mean if there were 10 000 flying BF109 and 2000 La-7 30 Me 262 there should be a % of the players. Like if there is 50 players on a server there should be one or two Me 262 available, and 20-30 Bf109.

As one ones said, amatures talks about preformance, smarter people talks about tactics, and professional talks about logistics.

HarryVoyager
07-28-2005, 10:34 AM
Histro, please check your vendetta at the door. The thread is about the Me-262 causing functional problems with servers. Last I checked, the P-38L Late didn't.

I have to agree with the original poster; jets simply cause to many problems to be worth having in the planeset.

Harry Voyager

SeaNorris
07-28-2005, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Hristo_:
Fair enough.

Therefore i propose only selected Blue pilots fly the 262. For example, 3 highest ranking of 20 present. How about it ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

At the same time, no Red should fly the P-38L Late as it never saw service. It should just sit in virtual hanger.

Go away n00b. No one cares about your silly vendetta against the P-38L_Late

Hristo_
07-28-2005, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by SeaNorris:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hristo_:
Fair enough.

Therefore i propose only selected Blue pilots fly the 262. For example, 3 highest ranking of 20 present. How about it ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

At the same time, no Red should fly the P-38L Late as it never saw service. It should just sit in virtual hanger.

Go away n00b. No one cares about your silly vendetta against the P-38L_Late </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

According to Gibbage et al, there is no P-38 L Late. Therefore, there is no vendetta http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

HarryVoyager
07-28-2005, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by Hristo_:
[...]
Therefore, there is no vendetta http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

So if there's no vendetta, why are you still posting?

Hristo_
07-28-2005, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by HarryVoyager:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hristo_:
[...]
Therefore, there is no vendetta http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

So if there's no vendetta, why are you still posting? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I seek the thruth !

Pirschjaeger
07-28-2005, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
If the Me-262 is allowed to fly, then why not the YP-80?
There is obvious blue bias amongst server admins on Hyper Lobby.

Since the Me262 creates lag, and I believe it to be the truth, then I agree it shouldn't be in servers until technology catches up with Oleg.

But, to imply that the YP-80 should be there because the Me262 is, well, it's not a good argument. You also know why Megile. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Although the Me262 did see combat, it should be removed from the servers for technical reasons. The YP-80 shouldn't be there for historical reasons.

BTW, is the Me262 the only jet that causes lag?

Fritz

Lucius_Esox
07-28-2005, 11:32 AM
And of course, every Red pilot should fly 25 missions and log off for life.


????? What are you talking about.

Actually a very simple question to you m8, why do you honestly believe everything german is superior to everything not!!!

An overstatement I know but still,,,,

Are you anti communist,, a footy head,, or what?

Pirschjaeger
07-28-2005, 11:42 AM
Hristo, you caught a pike! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz

Lucius_Esox
07-28-2005, 11:45 AM
Hristo, you caught a pike!
ROFLOL,,, Asked for that!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-28-2005, 12:02 PM
Sorry, I just couldn't resist. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz

MEGILE
07-28-2005, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:

BTW, is the Me262 the only jet that causes lag?

Fritz

No the Me-163 also suffers from this problem. The YP-80 however does not.

faustnik
07-28-2005, 12:08 PM
Nice Sig Megile! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

MEGILE
07-28-2005, 12:12 PM
Yeah I needed a new one.. and found this.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Daiichidoku
07-28-2005, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
Over the recent weeks it has come to my attention that admins are moving towards acceptance of the Me-262 in dogfight servers.. however I implore them to reconsider.


really? i never see em..wish i did, HL needs MORE servers that allow jets




re several reasons why the Me-262 should remain excluded.
First and foremost.. the logisitcal reasons. The netcode is unsuitable to handling the high speeds at which the Me-262 travels.

huh?....so when my Jug dives over 1000kph the netcode cant handle it?...PROVE IT



more it has been proven that the smoke trails from the enginges are a severe cause of lag, not to mention the extreme muzzle flashes which kill CPUs.

ok, now i KNWO yoru being stupid and fishing...for one, PROVE that the smoke causes lag...two, every prop plane that gets damaged in the engine can trail smoke..does that cause lag? if so, then why not ban ppl from shooting engines of prop planes, to get rid of lag, hmmmm?....muzzle flash? get real, many other prop types do the same thing...want to ban ki84Cs? see them around a lot...how about 190s and 109s, with or without gunpods?

the whole thing about jets causing lag is a MYTH..probably started by cowards who fly La7s and spit, who DONT want to have to actually look over thier shoulders in a DF room...only the Me 163 Komet causes lag, and its a ROCKET, NOT A JET..besides, that me 163 problem was fixed with 3.0


, the historical reasons.
Me-262 on a full real historical server? The admin has a sense of humor.
Me-262s were never around in great number, and only a handful flew combat sorties.
To create servers with hordes of Me-262s is just strengthening the imagination of those who like believe the Me-262 was a common sight in the air during WW2.
This scenario could not be further from the historical truth.. and we wouldn't want people to start having different and ultimately wrong perspectives of what happened in WW2 would we.

actaully, they made many 262s...yes, not too many were on operational strentgh at any given time...and even less were servicable...but they were there, and saw combat in varying degrees from summer 44

funny thing is, almoist all DF arcade servers, and evenb many "historical" FR type servers include such types as La7 3xB20...by wars end i think they hadnt made as many oif those as 262s, and CERTAINLY, the 262 saw more combat, alomoist 6 months earlier then La7 3xB20...not to mention the Yak 3P that pollutes servers...i dont think that saw ANY WWII combat...many other types the 262 had more service then, or was made in larger numbers then in most servers, like F4U 1C, I-185 Mig 3U, 109Z, the list goes on....according to your logic, these types should be banned also


IMO, the Me-262 should be relegated to the QMB flights we often do when we want quick fun, and not serious simming.

tryinh to bomb the bridge at remagen, or intercepting the murderous viermots over the reich is not serious simming? go away


Thirdly, this plane simply outclasses the Allied planes.. it does not make for a fair game when one team has Jet aircraft and the other team is restricted to propellor driven airplanes.

this is the MOST ridiculous statement made in your silly fishing trip, sir

i can see where the 262 has great advantages in a FR server, sure...but that advantage is based solely on speed...not a trifling matter, to be sure, but still, its only ace

any prop fighter can outmanuver it easily

any light caliber armament can flame the jet EASILY

if you havent noticed, the FB 262 has a ceiling of about 7000m....MOST other prop fighter in the game can easily go over 7000m, some excel there...CLEAR ADVANTAGE over the 262

in a "wonder woman" server, which many of the DF servers are, only the stupid and blind will be victimized by a 262, what with padlock and the like...easy to flame, easy to outmanuver, plus guarnteed safety from a 262 when over 7000m..HARDLY OUTCLASSING

IMO, if ANY jet in FB, then the 262 is the most legitimate choice, by production, combat service, and historical.techonogical signifigance

IMO, the 262 is far MORE legit and deserving to be in servers than many other FB prop types that ARE seen to pollute servers so often; Ki84C, F4U1C, La7 3xB20, Yak 3P, I 185, 109Z,


sure, fighting a 262 in a prop can be frustrating...if the jet pilot is good, he wont let you kill him....but by the same token, any prop pilot worth his salt wont GET killed, either (except maybe in FR server)

Id rather face a 262 to fight in my prop ANYDAY over a La7 3xB20, or UFO spitfire

ive seen your other posts before, megile, they seemed sane..what happened with you on THIS one?

DmdSeeker
07-28-2005, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:

BTW, is the Me262 the only jet that causes lag?

Fritz

No the Me-163 also suffers from this problem. The YP-80 however does not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nor; I believe; does the B1.

Daiichidoku
07-28-2005, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:

BTW, is the Me262 the only jet that causes lag?

Fritz

No the Me-163 also suffers from this problem. The YP-80 however does not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


No jets in FB EVER caused this problem

ONLY the ROCKET, not JET, Me 163 Komet ever caused lag, NOT the B1, NOT ANY other jet, only the 163...and this was fixed with 3.0

this is a stupid nasty rumour started by wimps in La7s who didnt want ot have to worry about something with more speed or firepower than they have

Pirschjaeger
07-28-2005, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by DmdSeeker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:

BTW, is the Me262 the only jet that causes lag?

Fritz

No the Me-163 also suffers from this problem. The YP-80 however does not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nor; I believe; does the B1. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, seems to be rockets and twin jet engines then.

I say ban all the jets, simple. Real men either have a propellers on their airplanes or on their baseball caps. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz

Daiichidoku
07-28-2005, 12:19 PM
dunno why ppl think the 262 is "uber"....maybe they should try one out, get clean kills in it, and RTB in one piece before they judge

aint as easy to do that consistently as one may think

JG52Karaya-X
07-28-2005, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Cajun76:
There's no proof it didn't serve. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

There's none that it DID serve as well - so what gives?

MEGILE
07-28-2005, 12:25 PM
All pro-262 whiners are now officially off my Christmas card list.

If you want to host a silly server with Me-262s then please do it on UBIcom and not Hyperlobby.

Thanks.

Daiichidoku
07-28-2005, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
All pro-262 whiners are now officially off my Christmas card list.

If you want to host a silly server with Me-262s then please do it on UBIcom and not Hyperlobby.

Thanks.

thanks for responding to my post, megile

MEGILE
07-28-2005, 12:32 PM
Anytime http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

faustnik
07-28-2005, 12:47 PM
Mine's bigger.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Fw%20190%20A-51000%20Kg%20bomb.jpg

Daiichidoku
07-28-2005, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:
Mine's bigger.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Fw%20190%20A-51000%20Kg%20bomb.jpg


it says "6" on the side of his 190, thats not bad..and hes being honest, give the guy a break

Abbuzze
07-28-2005, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
All pro-262 whiners are now officially off my Christmas card list.

If you want to host a silly server with Me-262s then please do it on UBIcom and not Hyperlobby.

Thanks.

Ahh, all persons who are not sharing your opinion are whiner now! Thats an interesting conclusion! I´m realy impressed. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have a real stupid idea to solve your personal problem, what about not to join a server with 262, or just leave it if to many of them are in the air, instead of trying to give orders to the server-hosts?? Because, if they like the 262 in their planeset they are whiners...

Gibbage1
07-28-2005, 01:19 PM
I say allow the Me-262 only IF the server can LIMIT the number of people flying it. Like 1 pilot out of every 1000. Like in WWII. We need to be historical http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MEGILE
07-28-2005, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:
Mine's bigger.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Fw%20190%20A-51000%20Kg%20bomb.jpg

you beat me this time.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

off to make a Jabo FW-190 COOP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

HarryVoyager
07-28-2005, 02:05 PM
More P-47Ns served in combat than Me-262s, yet we don't see many servers letting that plane on, now do we?

Shoot, almost as many P-47Ms saw combat service as 262's, and we don't see any of those in action, either.

Harry Voyager

MEGILE
07-28-2005, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by HarryVoyager:
More P-47Ns served in combat than Me-262s, yet we don't see many servers letting that plane on, now do we?

Shoot, almost as many P-47Ms saw combat service as 262's, and we don't see any of those in action, either.

Harry Voyager

Got references for that?
Not many P-47Ms were around...

Heliopause
07-28-2005, 02:14 PM
150 P47M's build?

StellarRat
07-28-2005, 02:15 PM
If you want servers to supply planes by rarity you should also eliminate the P-63, TA-152 and a few other planes.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-28-2005, 02:17 PM
It's common knowledge that the leading edge slats of the 262 cause massive server lag; I agree with the ban whole heartedly. The other day, I was in a P51 chasing a 262 and, in a turn I saw the guy's slats deploy. I was dumped out of the server and couldn't reconnect for an entire month! Talk about lag! Ban them!

Ta,
Norris

PS: When I did reconnect, the wings fell off my P51 even though I hadn't actually taken off yet. The only reasonable cause that I can think of is that someone suggested that the 109Z should be included in the planeset just at the same moment. Those Luft planes are for sissies.

HarryVoyager
07-28-2005, 02:23 PM
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p47_12.html

~130 P-47M's were built, and were rushed to service in Europe, to counter the buzz bomb threat.

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p47_13.html

By Dec 1944 24 P-47Ns had been delivered. Production hit 1667 aircraft by VJ day.

"The P-47N gave excellent service in the Pacific in the last year of the War, particularly in escorting B-29 Superfortress bombers in raids on the Japanese mainland. P-47Ns were able to escort the bombers all the way from Saipan to Japan and on many other long, overwater flights."

It's just that by that time the IJAF and IJN had been so decimatedthat they weren't putting up that notable of a fight.

There were never more than a few hundred 262's even operational. It was just such a glamorous plane that everyone remembers it, and tends to ignore some of the **** scary aircraft the Allies were producing at the time.

Just because we didn't start pumping out XP-72s by June '44 doesn't mean we weren't ready to; we just didn't need to.

Harry Voyager

HarryVoyager
07-28-2005, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by StellarRat:
If you want servers to supply planes by rarity you should also eliminate the P-63, TA-152 and a few other planes.

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p63.html

P-63 production numbers:

1725 P-63A
1227 P-63C

Ok, so it wasn't as common as the 109, but a few thousand aircraft, most of which were delivered to the Soviets under Lend Lease is not a rare plane. If they weren't flying them, I'd certainly love to know just what they were doing with them.

Harry Voyager

Gibbage1
07-28-2005, 02:50 PM
The problem with having Me-262's online is they dont suffer ANY of its historical drawbacks. Lack of range is a HUGE one you wont run into online. By the time the Me-262 got to its target in WWII, it was already thinking of going home. Also the extreme lack of availability. FLYABLE Me-262 only accounted for a VERY VERY small % of available Luftwaffe aircraft at any given time. More then 1000 were made, but no more then 300 were ever available to fly at a given time. Lack of resources is also another historical drawback thats not online.

Thats why its banned off of most servers.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-28-2005, 02:56 PM
^ range could be applied to the 109, too - are we advocating that it is banned also?

Most DF maps don't require long ranges so the argument is largely moot.

The bottom line is that the 262 is nearly invincible in an online server in the correct hands unless it is landing or taking off. That sounds quite historical to me.

That said, it's far from a noob plane (like some) but if you treat it like a super-190, you can't go far wrong.

Why don't people just be more honest, like Megile, and say that it's just _too good_ to be used against prop planes rather than fabricating alternative yawn-worthy reasons? Or would that be admitting that the Germans had a piece of hardware available in the war that outclassed anything the allies had?

Ta,
Norris

MEGILE
07-28-2005, 03:10 PM
The Luftwaffe were on to a winner with the Me-262 now doubt..pretty much outclassed everything it met in combat.
But that's not to say it had an easy time, ofcourse on takeoff and landing, but in the air the Tempest could be a nuisance.

To be honest, the prospect of fighting Spitfire IXes 1943 in an Me-262 doesn't interest me all that much. It doesn't feel very fair, or realistic for that matter.

Sure the Me-262 was flying on the Western front, but so was its greatest adversary, the Tempest MK V.
I have no problem with it being included in servers in limited numbers.. its just that it doesn't strike me as overly realistic because it isn't having to face some of its contemporary fighters, like the Spitfire XIV. Which ultimately is a fault of the game, and not of the Me-262.

No doubt at high altitude it is outclassed in game though.. but who flies at high altitude on a dogfight server? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

So sure go ahead, include the Me-262 in online servers, it deserves its place.. just don't be surprised by guys flying 1943 Spitfires not being too happy about it.. understandably.
As for P-51s? well they can just deal with it.. and try to vulch them on takeoff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As for the lag problem, I have neither seen it claimed or confirmed in my 3 years at UBIzoo.

But I think Norris knows something I don't with the slats.. maybe they embarrased him? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Me-262 "too good"? Sounds like something an RAF or USAAF pilot would say during WW2...
It depends on what the admin wants, balanced, or more realistic. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MEGILE
07-28-2005, 03:24 PM
PS. This is my first Focke Wulf sig.. and in the words of Justin Timberlake "I'm lovin' it".

GR142_Astro
07-28-2005, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
^ range could be applied to the 109, too - are we advocating that it is banned also?

Most DF maps don't require long ranges so the argument is largely moot.

The bottom line is that the 262 is nearly invincible in an online server in the correct hands unless it is landing or taking off. That sounds quite historical to me.

That said, it's far from a noob plane (like some) but if you treat it like a super-190, you can't go far wrong.

Why don't people just be more honest, like Megile, and say that it's just _too good_ to be used against prop planes rather than fabricating alternative yawn-worthy reasons? Or would that be admitting that the Germans had a piece of hardware available in the war that outclassed anything the allies had?

Ta,
Norris

All moot points, the party was over the day this bad boy was fielded:

http://www.langley.af.mil/staff/ho/images/p80.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
07-28-2005, 03:53 PM
After some use of the old dos 'debug' command, I've poked around and found that it isn't the slats that cause the lag after all.

If you use debug, look at address 0C98:0040; you can see that the byte alternates between 0x1F and 0xF3 on a Tuesday when it rains. This is clearly proof that it is the superior pilot uniform that is causing the lag. That's a relief, really, because I had been looking at address 0DC0:0080 and noticed that it the 'better than the allies had paint job' on the 262 was induced a ping lag of a femtosecond every 5 mins.

Ta,
Norris

NorrisMcWhirter
07-28-2005, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
^ range could be applied to the 109, too - are we advocating that it is banned also?

Most DF maps don't require long ranges so the argument is largely moot.

The bottom line is that the 262 is nearly invincible in an online server in the correct hands unless it is landing or taking off. That sounds quite historical to me.

That said, it's far from a noob plane (like some) but if you treat it like a super-190, you can't go far wrong.

Why don't people just be more honest, like Megile, and say that it's just _too good_ to be used against prop planes rather than fabricating alternative yawn-worthy reasons? Or would that be admitting that the Germans had a piece of hardware available in the war that outclassed anything the allies had?

Ta,
Norris

All moot points, the party was over the day this bad boy was fielded:

http://www.langley.af.mil/staff/ho/images/p80.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aye, but you may as well have posted an image of an F15 as that wasn't fielded in time, either http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bottom line? Jerries were engaging in jet combat while everyone else was still playing around with those hairdrier fan things at the front of their planes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ta,
Norris

MEGILE
07-28-2005, 04:06 PM
Don't forget the Meteor.. it wasn't all that and a bag of potatoe chips, but it was there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Put it this way.. if the reds had the Meteor, be sure even they couldn't be hypocritical enough not to allow the blues the pleasure of flying the Me-262.

Cajun76
07-28-2005, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cajun76:
There's no proof it didn't serve. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

There's none that it DID serve as well - so what gives? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

P-38L's didn't fly at all in WWII!? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

P-38L's were equipped with F-30 Allison engines, rated by Allison @ 1725hp using 100/130 avgas.

What's going to prevent a pilot who's fighting for his life from pushing the throttles all the way up?

NorrisMcWhirter
07-28-2005, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
Don't forget the Meteor.. it wasn't all that and a bag of potatoe chips, but it was there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Put it this way.. if the reds had the Meteor, be sure even they couldn't be hypocritical enough not to allow the blues the pleasure of flying the Me-262.

That's the problem, though, isn't it? When we have late war planes, they are usually at the extremes or shouldn't be used for whatever reason...e.g. balance. Personally, I'd prefer to have eariler war, better matched aircraft to play with rather than those that give rise to 'but we had the best aircraft at the end....no you didn't...yes we did...no you didn't....yes we did, Nazi' forum p*ssing contests.

Ta,
Norris

p1ngu666
07-28-2005, 04:35 PM
i think the lag thing was fixed awhile ago tbh, the me163 produced tons of lag, but that was fixed too.

ps i hope u have alot of air freshner megile, as uve caught so many fish its gonna get smelly at ur place http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

MEGILE
07-28-2005, 04:46 PM
Fishing?

I had a cathartic moment, and decided to change my opinions.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

HarryVoyager
07-28-2005, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:

[...]

Aye, but you may as well have posted an image of an F15 as that wasn't fielded in time, either http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
[...]
Ta,
Norris

F-15's weren't doing fly-overs of Europe in 1944. The YP-80A was.

Just because the Germans were so desperate they were throwing prototypes into the fray doesn't mean the Allies couldn't have if they had needed to.

Harry Voyager

NorrisMcWhirter
07-28-2005, 05:16 PM
Prototypes. Good one. Ask Clostermann if the aircraft he saw land when the war was over were prototypes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ta,
Norris

HarryVoyager
07-28-2005, 05:21 PM
The XP-59 had full gunload and equipement. You saying that that wasn't a prototype?

MEGILE
07-28-2005, 05:24 PM
I think his point is that, it WAS a prototype, whereas the Me-262 et al. were production models.

HarryVoyager
07-28-2005, 05:30 PM
Not when there were planes rolling off the assembly line with over a hundred shims fitting the main wing spar into place they weren't. (Air and Space, refferencing a restoration of a Ta-152, don't have the issue handy.)

It is quite possible to mass produce an untested, unfinished aircraft. That still doesn't make it a reliable aircraft. (See the C-5 Galaxy program for details.)

My point is that many of the Allies prototype aircraft were every bit as combat ready as the production aircraft rolling off of the Weirmarck assembly lines, so stating an aircraft should or shouldn't fly based off of its prototype status is meaningless.

Harry Voyager

AerialTarget
07-28-2005, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by HarryVoyager:
F-15's weren't doing fly-overs of Europe in 1944. The YP-80A was.

I think that this argument is so good by itself that you don't need to waste time telling these Goebelings what American prototypes were capable of doing.

Man, I want my P-38 K!

Fish6891
07-29-2005, 12:16 AM
Diggin' your sig Maggie! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fehler
07-29-2005, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by HarryVoyager:
My point is that many of the Allies prototype aircraft were every bit as combat ready as the production aircraft rolling off of the Weirmarck assembly lines, so stating an aircraft should or shouldn't fly based off of its prototype status is meaningless.

Harry Voyager

They must have really sucked then... The "Weirmacht" is the army... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I guess those planes would really be "Flying tanks." http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Badsight.
07-29-2005, 12:57 AM
anyone bothered to look up the stats for the P-80 ? especially its wing stats ?

fly it in FB & try not to LOL , i dare ya !

jugent
07-29-2005, 01:10 AM
It would be very tragic if someone get their opion about history from an arcade game
" Me-262s were never around in great number, and only a handful flew combat sorties.
To create servers with hordes of Me-262s is just strengthening the imagination of those who like believe the Me-262 was a common sight in the air during WW2.
This scenario could not be further from the historical truth.. and we wouldn't want people to start having different and ultimately wrong perspectives of what happened in WW2 would we."

I think you underestimate peoples intelligence

AerialTarget
07-29-2005, 02:49 AM
You're wrong. More people get their notions of "history" from movies than anything else. Games would be the second, with books being last.

Even at this forum, you see that normal, "intelligent" people get their ideas of physics and aerodynamics from the game. My early days here under this name saw entire threads full of people claiming that a high performance warbird simply couldn't stall without dropping a wing. The basic fact is that many could and did, under many different conditions.

Every discussion about every game issue that comes up shows that people believe that real life works the way the game does. In most cases, the game is wrong, but many people do not know it and actually violently attack those who know otherwise and state how it really is.

anarchy52
07-29-2005, 03:20 AM
Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
All moot points, the party was over the day this bad boy was fielded:

http://www.langley.af.mil/staff/ho/images/p80.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

By the time that bad boy was fielded, new bad boys had MiG-15s. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

anarchy52
07-29-2005, 03:28 AM
Originally posted by HarryVoyager:
F-15's weren't doing fly-overs of Europe in 1944. The YP-80A was.

Actually I think that the number of F-15s and YP-80s over Europe in 1944 was the same.

NS38th_Aristaus
07-29-2005, 04:47 AM
F-80C pilots flew more than 15,000 sorties in the first four months of the war. On November 8, 1950, 1st Lt. Russell J. Brown, flying a 16th Fighter-Interceptor Squadron F-80C, shot down a Soviet-built MiG-15 in the world's first all-jet air battle.
Only 14 F-80s were shot down by enemy aircraft in Korea,
The first P-80A was accepted by the AAF in February of 1945,

MEGILE
07-29-2005, 05:32 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Didn't Sea Fury's take some MiGs down during Korea?

NS38th_Aristaus
07-29-2005, 05:35 AM
Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
All moot points, the party was over the day this bad boy was fielded:

http://www.langley.af.mil/staff/ho/images/p80.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

By the time that bad boy was fielded, new bad boys had MiG-15s. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
my point exactly

Kocur_
07-29-2005, 06:18 AM
Ki84C, F4U1C, La7 3xB20, Yak 3P, I 185, 109Z

...and MiG-3U, both designed and built (6) in 1943, not 1942 as in game... A mistake, be sure.