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john63
10-15-2009, 12:33 PM
I've been wondering for a long time about the weaponry and combat tactics of the modern-day assassins in AC. Obviously they'll be using guns, but IMO most firearms go against the Creed because they aren't very discrete. Then I saw this thing:

http://hubpages.com/hub/The-No...urther-Investigation (http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Notorious-Umbrella-Assassination-of-Georgi-Markov-Upon-Further-Investigation)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov

It seems like this kind of weapon would be perfect for modern day assassins; it's gas-powered, so it would be quiet, and it doesn't look like a gun, so it would be discrete.

This type of thing could also be good for AC3, if they have it in an era with modern firearms.

Anyway, what are your theories on the combat tactics and weaponry of the modern-day brotherhood of assassins?

Rorylavelle
10-15-2009, 12:51 PM
I don't understand, are you referring to the umbrella as the weapon?

But yeah, it will be changed around big time if we get to play in the modern world. I'd say a major weapon would be stealth, there may even be a whole new sneaking sort of gait, and backing tight up against walls, etc.

Close quarters stuff will be less frequent, and only when you catch someone off guard or without a weapon.

I think throwing knives would play an excellent part in such a game, though. Stuff like, knocking people out would be cool as well.

john63
10-15-2009, 12:57 PM
Yeah dude. The KGB agent shot a little pellet filled with ricin (poison) into his target. Inside, the pellet released the poison and killed him. Tell me that's not sneaky http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

z0nnebril
10-15-2009, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by john63:
I've been wondering for a long time about the weaponry and combat tactics of the modern-day assassins in AC. Obviously they'll be using guns, but IMO most firearms go against the Creed because they aren't very discrete. Then I saw this thing:

http://hubpages.com/hub/The-No...urther-Investigation (http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Notorious-Umbrella-Assassination-of-Georgi-Markov-Upon-Further-Investigation)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov

It seems like this kind of weapon would be perfect for modern day assassins; it's gas-powered, so it would be quiet, and it doesn't look like a gun, so it would be discrete.

This type of thing could also be good for AC3, if they have it in an era with modern firearms.

Anyway, what are your theories on the combat tactics and weaponry of the modern-day brotherhood of assassins?

I hope thay never make an modern-day assasin http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif That would ruin the whole game...than it is going to like like the James Bond games. No, just stay at the swords and blades http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Rorylavelle
10-15-2009, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by john63:
Yeah dude. The KGB agent shot a little pellet filled with ricin (poison) into his target. Inside, the pellet released the poison and killed him. Tell me that's not sneaky http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Hang on- are you sure that it "shot" the pellet into the wound?

john63
10-15-2009, 01:16 PM
Yeah Rory, it might have been at close range, but the pellet was definitely shot or launched. Why else would there be an air cylinder, if not to propel the pellet? Look at the blueprint on wikipedia.

@zonnebril: IDK if they'll ever make a modern-day playable assassin, but since Desmond supposedly escapes from abstergo in this game, it's likely that we'll at least see some assassins, or their weaponry.

And even if we continue playing historical characters, the new assassin will at the very least need to deal with gun-toting opponents, if not use firearms himself.

I mean, flintlock rifles (which I consider to be "modern" guns) were introduced in the 1600s. Unless we start going backwards, there will need to be SOME type of gun involvement in AC.

z0nnebril
10-15-2009, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by john63:
Yeah Rory, it might have been at close range, but the pellet was definitely shot or launched. Why else would there be an air cylinder, if not to propel the pellet? Look at the blueprint on wikipedia.

@zonnebril: IDK if they'll ever make a modern-day playable assassin, but since Desmond supposedly escapes from abstergo in this game, it's likely that we'll at least see some assassins, or their weaponry.

And even if we continue playing historical characters, the new assassin will at the very least need to deal with gun-toting opponents, if not use firearms himself.

I mean, flintlock rifles (which I consider to be "modern" guns) were introduced in the 1600s. Unless we start going backwards, there will need to be SOME type of gun involvement in AC. I know, but I hope they never make an Assasins Creed where you can shoot with Uzi's or something like that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

LaurenIsSoMosh
10-15-2009, 01:36 PM
*imagines modern-day Assassins with umbrella guns*

Oh please, spare us the horror! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

desonnac0
10-15-2009, 01:37 PM
Modern day assassin? - Splinter cell conviction
The umbrella thing. Those were bulgarian spies in the UK. I am from BG and there is still a lot of talk how the government abused it's power... kinda like Watergate I guess...
I was thinkin more like a hidden gun or something...
When the assassins stormed Abstergo there was a lot of gunfire, I'm guessing the assassins had MP5's or some HK model... but they stay in shadows right?
So... russian gear? I mean- russian SMG's, AK's, etc.
After all, the assassins arsenal isn't the newest things, or the best- they've got swords, throwing knives... the only stealth weapon in their arsenal is the hidden blade and it has some pretty spectacular applications. Who ever said they have to be stealth-ey or quiet. I mean, even in AC- you sneak up a lot and then, u make as much noise as possible... and then some.
And in AC2- you'll be well known before you even start the assassination with the notoriety system.
Maybe they'll make an upgrade system for the guns- like in Hitman:Blood Money for instance?
Umbrella gun is impractical for AC... or pretty much any elaborate non conventional weapon.
But, if it's set in WW2, that opens up a lot of possibilities. Axis and Antanta experiment with weapons and the assassins could have had some pretty neat toys... but for modern day warfare... Today's novelty weapons are just too weird, big or impractical. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

john63
10-15-2009, 01:49 PM
...point taken Lauren :P

I wasn't saying that it needs to be that exact weapon; I'm just trying to think, how could modern assassins deal with opponents with modern weaponry, while still being... assassin-y :P

@desonnac0, I was thinking a hidden gun too, but then wondered how you could make a firearm discreet enough, but still deadly. Which is why I liked the umbrella-gun.


Umbrella gun is impractical for AC... or pretty much any elaborate non conventional weapon.


*looks at hidden blade, lols*

LaurenIsSoMosh
10-15-2009, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by john63:
...point taken Lauren :P It's fun to be mean sometimes. ^.^;
I wasn't saying that it needs to be that exact weapon; I'm just trying to think, how could modern assassins deal with opponents with modern weaponry, while still being... assassin-y :P Point taken.

I think in the modern day, it's more important for the wielder to be stealthy than the weapon to be. A concealed weapon disguised as any ordinary item such as an umbrella would be somewhat impractical in a tactical situation, during free running, firefights, etc.

Standard weapons such as sub-machine guns are designed the way they are to be practical in firefights, even if they might be obvious weapons. Better for the Assassin to carry an obvious weapon while hiding than to walk around in public with some crazy contraption of a weapon.

EDIT TO THE FUTURE: Marry Poppins sucks. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

*hopes Pheon won't see that*

grashopper
10-15-2009, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by LaurenIsSoMosh:
*imagines modern-day Assassins with umbrella guns*

Oh please, spare us the horror! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

But then they can fly around Marry Poppins style...those umbrellas have many uses.

Ureh
10-15-2009, 02:19 PM
oh yeah i heard about those before and saw them in movies too

i heard theres umbrellas that can turn inside out and have blades insides

thekyle0
10-15-2009, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Ureh:
i heard theres umbrellas that can turn inside out and have blades insides Soviet propaganda. They just wanted to sound scarier. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

john63
10-15-2009, 02:41 PM
I think in the modern day, it's more important for the wielder to be stealthy than the weapon to be. A concealed weapon disguised as any ordinary item such as an umbrella would be somewhat impractical in a tactical situation, during free running, firefights, etc.

Standard weapons such as sub-machine guns are designed the way they are to be practical in firefights, even if they might be obvious weapons. Better for the Assassin to carry an obvious weapon while hiding than to walk around in public with some crazy contraption of a weapon.

Fair enough.

After first seeing the hidden blade in all its stealthy glory, and then learning that there were modern-day assassins too, I figured that they, too, would have some crazy stealthy weapon of awesomeness.

Using regular guns stealthily makes sense, but it just seems... boring http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

DeSabellis
10-15-2009, 04:02 PM
Modern weapons are impractical? The HK 416 and other M4 carbines for example are not impractical weapons- they are efficient, accurate, and deadly; in the case of military rounds, certain rounds are capable of piercing body armour effectively. Pistols too, even the ones that are designed for a supposedly 'weak caliber' (9mm) have stopping power, and even then upgrading to a larger round like that .45 ACP definitely makes for a weapon that can stop an unarmoured target.

Submachine guns too for example have become smaller, more reliable, and accurate (but keep in mind, they still fire 'pistol rounds' that's why they are called 'sub' machine guns). Just look at H&K weapons, basically everything they make fires nicely (I know from experience). The only problem is the application of these weapons in a stealthily manner as mentioned by other people. Concealing these weapons are not really a problem; tons of people carry handguns concealed on a daily basis here in Kentucky and you never notice. The sound of the bullet is a different story. The use of a suppressor doesn't quite do what games like Splinter Cell or movies make it sound like, it's still loud as hell. Their are descriptions of it sounding like a 'pneumatic stapler' which is a fairly accurate description, but in truth, it sounds the same as wearing ear protection when firing a firearm (only in this case, when you are not wearing ear protection).

It's a game though... looking too much into defeats the purpose I suppose. Its reasonable to assume that it could be pulled off, and I hope they attempt it, but it is daunting.

texas1656
10-15-2009, 08:39 PM
if there is a modern assassin part i realy want the punch guns from inglourius bastards

john63
10-15-2009, 10:19 PM
@texas: me too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

@DeSabellis: I didn't say they weren't practical. I just hope that if there are modern-assassin missions, that the assassins still have a weapon that's uniquely theirs, you know?

Auditore_thingy
10-16-2009, 07:59 PM
But then you would either have to jump thru windows into other building 25 feet away, or you would be on top of skyscrapers, OR still yet you may end up shooting crap loads of civilians in your fire fights on the streets, not to mention the cops...........

Outlaw-BHA
10-17-2009, 02:08 AM
Just wondering, but how many people here have seen the movie "Smoking Aces" because in this movie there is a perfect usage of both the hidden blade and sub-machine guns used in an assassin-y way

john63
10-17-2009, 02:12 AM
Haven't seen it. On the top of my list http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Outlaw-BHA
10-17-2009, 02:17 AM
well its a 'shoot-em-up' type movie with a really twistied plot that doesnt make much sense, but the action is good

Impulsez
10-17-2009, 02:29 AM
I have a really kwl idea imo. Alright i'm gonan need u guys to visualise.

Imagine the hidden blade. Now imagine the AC 2 hidden gun on it... now modenise it. There could be a little square slot on the right/bottom if ur looking down ur hand. soz hard t explain. In CoD 5 there is a weapon with the ammo clip on the right of the gun rather than the bottom. you could have an ammo (shorter ammo clip) going into the right of the bottom of the hidden blade ar band thingo

Soz might be kinda confusing but that would be sick and it could be fired from one of the fingers on ur left hand.

I'll try explaining in other words. Hold your arm up so ur hand is pointing up and ur fore arm is facing away from u and is verticle. Now imagine putting a ammo clip in the hidden blade glove thingo closer to ur elbow... sorta like a hand gun on it's side attached to ur hidden blade.

Jgoldcaptain
10-17-2009, 12:58 PM
desmond should have normal hidden blade

ScarletVice
10-17-2009, 01:23 PM
Holy ****, an umbrella would be awesome!
Almost like in the avengers with Ralph Fiennes and Uma Thurman where he fights with it, even though this is a little to genltemen like for Desmond.

Oh I got your modern day weapon right here.

http://dl.maximumpc.com/galler...iconwed_009_full.jpg (http://dl.maximumpc.com/galleries/cc09/comiconwed_009_full.jpg)

http://www.yourprops.com/norm-48592f173b0c8-Batman+Begins+(2005).jpeg

Oh yeah, now put in some smoke bombs and a grapling hook and I'm set to go.

Outlaw-BHA
10-18-2009, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Impulsez:
I have a really kwl idea imo. Alright i'm gonan need u guys to visualise.

Imagine the hidden blade. Now imagine the AC 2 hidden gun on it... now modenise it. There could be a little square slot on the right/bottom if ur looking down ur hand. soz hard t explain. In CoD 5 there is a weapon with the ammo clip on the right of the gun rather than the bottom. you could have an ammo (shorter ammo clip) going into the right of the bottom of the hidden blade ar band thingo

Soz might be kinda confusing but that would be sick and it could be fired from one of the fingers on ur left hand.

I'll try explaining in other words. Hold your arm up so ur hand is pointing up and ur fore arm is facing away from u and is verticle. Now imagine putting a ammo clip in the hidden blade glove thingo closer to ur elbow... sorta like a hand gun on it's side attached to ur hidden blade.

i get what ur saying and i like it, but to add more ammo u could have it feed in from underneath and have a clip that wraps around ur arm like a barrel drum/clip

th3guy
10-21-2009, 10:19 PM
for alot of modern assassins they would use a .22 caliber for most operations. even though it is a small caliber if can still go a great distance. and people generally think that to do damage it need to be a big caliber. buton the contrary this bullet, when it enters the body will bounce around inside and cause tremendous damage. that is if you know that you are not using the wrong kind of amunition. and if you use the caliber it doesn't make much noise compared to others to begin with so therefor adding a silencer to the equation is making it even more leathal. also it is ideal because it gives so little kick and offers more accurancy. but like another person said they may use ak's and mp5 also other variations but that could be a big operation that may call for that.

john63
10-21-2009, 11:43 PM
@th3guy: I've heard of using bullets like that! Where they have just enough energy to crack the front of the skull, but not penetrate out the back, so that all the rest of its energy is used to bounce around in the brain. Good call http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

EmperorxZurg
10-21-2009, 11:45 PM
what? I'm sorry but the mechanics of what u said for the bullet are all wrong, a 22 doesn't bounce inside you, that defeats the whole purpose of the bullet, a bullet is something that penetrates and rips a major artery or gut that in turn causes death, if it can bounce it's doin something wrong. and if the bullet is threaded and rifled in a certain way it would be quite, doesn't matter on the caliber, plus adding a silencer is just adding a length on ur barrel that silences the explosion made by the bullet leaving the gun, so if it's already quite and dealt with it, a silencer is just added junk. and adding kick doesn't mack it more accurate, backspin and bullet rotation can cause more range, but they hardly move the accuracy. and a modern assassin/spec op infil mission would almost always have an mp5 or some sub-machine gun if the mission went wrong, it matters on the assassination taking place and where he staked out would be the best place to get away once it was done, so sorta think about what ur saying th3guy. Didn't mean to rip on ur first post but that was a HUGE red flag after my gun studies lol

FROGGEman2
10-22-2009, 12:32 AM
You silly people, why would you not want the umbrella/future?

Eh, Sniper Rifles and Knives, I imagine. The Assassins hated using poison. Also, guys, this wouldn't be a shooter, guns wouldn't be used much.

opisamra
10-22-2009, 01:46 AM
I can sort of imagine what Impulsez is tryign to explain. It sounds pretty good. But, in my opinion, AC3 should NOT be set in the present because I just can't see them modernising the appeal of AC (shoving a hidden blade in peoples necks)...

DeSabellis
10-22-2009, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
what? I'm sorry but the mechanics of what u said for the bullet are all wrong, a 22 doesn't bounce inside you, that defeats the whole purpose of the bullet, a bullet is something that penetrates and rips a major artery or gut that in turn causes death, if it can bounce it's doin something wrong. and if the bullet is threaded and rifled in a certain way it would be quite, doesn't matter on the caliber, plus adding a silencer is just adding a length on ur barrel that silences the explosion made by the bullet leaving the gun, so if it's already quite and dealt with it, a silencer is just added junk. and adding kick doesn't mack it more accurate, backspin and bullet rotation can cause more range, but they hardly move the accuracy. and a modern assassin/spec op infil mission would almost always have an mp5 or some sub-machine gun if the mission went wrong, it matters on the assassination taking place and where he staked out would be the best place to get away once it was done, so sorta think about what ur saying th3guy. Didn't mean to rip on ur first post but that was a HUGE red flag after my gun studies lol

Bullets fragment all the time, especially if they are FMJ or MC. If they hit something hard, like a bone, small pieces will break off of the bullet itself. All bullets are smooth, the barrel of the firearm is 'rifled'. This doesn't make it quieter in any way; a larger caliber, and more specifically a larger/longer bullet casing would have room for more propellant, so it would be louder, especially if they are high power load such as P+ loads. Suppressors definitely reduce noise, but not to were it is silence.

I can tell you from personal experience that a 12 gauge, 2 3/4' shotgun shell makes a louder noise then a .40 s&w. Years of experience.

X10J
10-22-2009, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
a 22 doesn't bounce inside you, that defeats the whole purpose of the bullet, a bullet is something that penetrates and rips a major artery or gut that in turn causes death, if it can bounce it's doin something wrong.

hes talking about when a .22 bullet has enough power to enter the skull but not to exit an since it cant exit but still has energy it moves around in the brain deflecting when it hits the skull until it runs out of energy and stops

EmperorxZurg
10-22-2009, 07:07 PM
yes small bullets will break off, but the main objective for a bullet is to tear through, this only helps with bullet fragmentation if u are trying to hit a small artery making it more of a chance that one of the fragments will puncture it. And ya, I get barrel lol, that's what i get for typing this up when im half asleep>_<. and of course a bigger caliber will make a bigger noise, more propellant equals larger explosion and larger explosion equals more noise, but the larger explosion also equals more force which means more chance of it ripping through a needed organ depending on ur accuracy.

And At XJ: if it has enough kinetic energy to bounce around in a skull repeatedly and rip through brain tissue, I'm pretty sure the equal amount of force it used could go through a skull again

X10J
10-22-2009, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
yes small bullets will break off, but the main objective for a bullet is to tear through, this only helps with bullet fragmentation if u are trying to hit a small artery making it more of a chance that one of the fragments will puncture it. And ya, I get barrel lol, that's what i get for typing this up when im half asleep>_<. and of course a bigger caliber will make a bigger noise, more propellant equals larger explosion and larger explosion equals more noise, but the larger explosion also equals more force which means more chance of it ripping through a needed organ depending on ur accuracy.

And At XJ: if it has enough kinetic energy to bounce around in a skull repeatedly and rip through brain tissue, I'm pretty sure the equal amount of force it used could go through a skull again

i was trying to better explain i didnt say it was correct http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

oh and call me J http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EmperorxZurg
10-22-2009, 07:19 PM
ah, seem we had a bit of confusion J lol. When was this thread started though? I don't remember it