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XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 04:30 AM
man i was just thinking something that's probably been thought a billion times by some of you guys. wouldn't it be great to have infantry down on the ground duking it out, while you do close support missions in your il2, only to be attacked by 109's sent on an air superiority mission. imagine having a simplified "combat mission" ( www.battlefront.com (http://www.battlefront.com) ) going on down there while you're above it all dropping VAP's and bombs on anything you see moving past no man's land.
i'm no dummy though. this won't be able to be done anytime soon. it would probably take a lot of time to model, and then missions would probably take 10X more time, and be much more difficult to make. but my question is, how long do you think it will take for infantry to be implemented in an il2 sequel, or any WWII sim for that matter? i'm gonna say around 6-7 years or 2 il2 sequels, whichever comes first.

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 04:30 AM
man i was just thinking something that's probably been thought a billion times by some of you guys. wouldn't it be great to have infantry down on the ground duking it out, while you do close support missions in your il2, only to be attacked by 109's sent on an air superiority mission. imagine having a simplified "combat mission" ( www.battlefront.com (http://www.battlefront.com) ) going on down there while you're above it all dropping VAP's and bombs on anything you see moving past no man's land.
i'm no dummy though. this won't be able to be done anytime soon. it would probably take a lot of time to model, and then missions would probably take 10X more time, and be much more difficult to make. but my question is, how long do you think it will take for infantry to be implemented in an il2 sequel, or any WWII sim for that matter? i'm gonna say around 6-7 years or 2 il2 sequels, whichever comes first.

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 04:51 AM
Kuban and Kursk had several hundred aircraft "duking" it out within a ten kilometer space at one time.

For every sim of a dozen invisible tiny ants (one infantry squad), you could sim another AI aircraft.

Please, think of the AI routines.

Lets get real fellas.

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 04:53 AM
Maybe someday...the day where 5ghz is old and we are all running computers with gigabyte memory cards...then it will be feasible. Until then, no. Sorry.

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XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 04:55 AM
Its true.

I dont have any idea how IL2 AI works, but my school project for determining the fastest way form A to B in a maze took about 12 seconds to compile, and each move took 0.3 seconds to "think", and thats just in 2D space....I know my app is much smaller, but having done that boggles my mind how games make AI even that quick (even if not bright)

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 04:58 AM
well of course you wouldnt do a 1:1 scale for infantry. for one, each individual man would be worth 10-50 real men, and they would be grouped in divisions. it would be totally symbolic. that's why i referred to combat mission. you don't move around individual men. there are 3 men on-screen per squad, representing 8-12 men. something like that. also, considering the length and scale of an individual sortie, not a very large area would have to be modelled, and there would not be any large infantry movements. perhaps just a simple fall back, or advance, but even then it would not be by much.

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 05:32 AM
Yes! I can see one way to make ground infantry have real purpose in a flight sim, and by visually stunning.

Check this:: If you had to bail out, you gotta catch a truck back to your airfield, going the way you need to go. Hitch a ride (with little mini~map to help you) and get out of the truck when you are close to your field. Or maybe if you "jump warp" into the truck, you automatically commandeer the truck, and you are driven back to your field.

Now, if you bail behind enemy lines, you have to walk back to your own lines before getting a ride to your field. But you gotta avoid the enemy ground units. You really don't need infantry modelled to do this--FB tanks will do just fine to represent ground forces.

Try this with FB:: land on (or take off from it can be done on *most* flyable aircraft) flat non-forest terrain, you can taxi for hours on Oleg's FB maps. A standard truck ride should be possible to simulate, as would be walking. I mean, you got the external mouse view so you should be able to move the view by walking your simulated pilot by the mouse too.

The neat thing about ground travel is this:; You are on the ground, look up into the sky and see airplanes overhead, some from your own airfield. It reminds me of many accounts written of people on the ground looking up and seeing freindly or enemy aircraft going to or from battle, or engaging in battle.

But really, the most important thing is get back to your field and get another plane. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 05:35 AM
I think we should leave this kind of thing to MMOFPS like BF1942. What you suggest would practically require a first person shooter to built into a flight sim.

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XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 06:01 AM
If there's one thing the world needs more of, its infantry, if for no other reason than to show the hotshot pilots who "better", generally speaking.




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XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 06:17 AM
Willy~n~Joe won the WAR

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XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 08:55 AM
- my question is, how long do you think it will take
- for infantry to be implemented in an il2 sequel, or
- any WWII sim for that matter? i'm gonna say around
- 6-7 years or 2 il2 sequels, whichever comes first.


Dont think it should take that long at all...

In Falcon 4 SP3, I've been on several CAS missions
where I was attempting to support my own troops.
At the FEBA I locked up a target AWACS ID'd as enemy,
but before I could launch the 4 JSOW's, I saw a
series of tracer in the MFD heading straight into the
enemy AFV's, as they got hammered by allied armour.
Because it was to difficult to differentate between good
guy's and bad guy's, I simply moved deeper into
indian country, and obliterated a second echelon of
enemy AFV's moving forward. The chance of accidently
taking out one of the good guy's was just too great.
But it was (IS !!) very cool seeing the enemy AFV's
getting taken out by our tanks while I was flying
overhead !!!!!!!!!!!!!


Personally, I'd be far more interested in seeing a
TRUE dynamic campaign ala Falcon 4, and the ability to
setup one's own flight path in the game.