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XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 10:54 PM
Has anyone else noticed how tough the 190's are, even with 6 to 8 .50's getting poured into it from behind close range?

I emptied entire ammo of p40 last night into a 190, I know it was hitting too because I could see all the flashes.

I know the 190 is tough, I don't question that at all, but was it THAT tough???

S!
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XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 10:54 PM
Has anyone else noticed how tough the 190's are, even with 6 to 8 .50's getting poured into it from behind close range?

I emptied entire ammo of p40 last night into a 190, I know it was hitting too because I could see all the flashes.

I know the 190 is tough, I don't question that at all, but was it THAT tough???

S!
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XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 11:34 PM
try shooting down a P-11 w/ .50's.
Almost imposible now-

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XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 11:40 PM
i took the wing off a 190 with a short bust from the 4 .50s on a p39, really suprised me

i think the biggest part of it is where you shoot the plane, i think its a bigger factor now then before the patch

----------------------------------------

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:13 AM
Shooting in the tail can be a waste of time.Wing,engine,or top of cockpit are better targets.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 03:24 AM
I've always said that the 190 was too tough in FB 1.0 but it did become a little more vulnerable in 1.1b. If you are flying one, it still seems to be more fragile than the plane the AI gets, but again this holds true for most planes. The 190 was one of the toughest planes, I had a link to where a P-51 pilot said that he dumped almost his entire ammo load into a 190 and it kept going. He said the 190 was incredibly sturdy and tough. In FB the wings and engine are very vulnerable, the fuesalage is very tough. The 190 also catches fire more often after the patch, especially the fuel tanks located under and just behind the pilot. The tail/fuesalage junction can also be vulnerable but it requires an angled, non-dead six shot. The 190 and the P-47 should stand out for their toughness, but I have heard that the P-47 isn't all that tough but I can't say.

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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 04:29 AM
I noticed this too, shooting 190s from the rear is useless, you can empty your whole 6 50s or 80 50s with extra ammo, it seems shooting the fuel tank from the belly of the 190 dont explode it like it use to. even the 109s seem extra strong or 6 50s were weakened, they do the job but take half or more of your ammo.

If you hit a 190 from the the side where the gastank is it explodes but not from the belly, but the b239 seems to explode it in a couple quick bursts. I havent tried the p11 on it yet but it seems the hurricanes 303s are extremely useless weak guns now you cant even shoot a he111 down " besides a lucky pilot kill" with them and you can shoot an emil and other 109s for a good 6 seconds untill your out of ammo and its still flying.


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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:34 AM
good points, I have noticed that tonight.

I hit a 190 with p39 cannon, saw the explosion , but that was from behind.

later he pulled up with me behind him bigger than life, fired away and down he went.



S!
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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:05 AM
Can't confirm this. Took P-47 managed to get on his six and from 150 metres I fired THREE bursts.
First: Fuel Leak
Second: Engine fire
third: Wing off.. -> Kill

I had enough ammo left for 2 bombers...

I think its the dispersion you face when shooting form behind. from 8 guns maybe 3 hit. And of these 3 maybe 1 has a good deflection.

It's of course easier to kill it if swooping down on it in which process you tear it apart. ( i fly 190s. and I dread the p-47s. They're cool now..)

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 08:34 AM
I fly the 190 all the time I been blown up taken wing damage that reduces my speed by over 100kmh

had my wings shot off leeked fuel trailed smoke & every other concivablw way u can die

Not sure what yer talkin bout its tough but the toughness is not overmodled imo

rollrate ya

Multiple snaprolls with out spining Ya

PP not inducing drag as it should ya

damage model overdone No

P47 not tough enough LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLl

I shoot it with 6 or 8 mk108 shells On a high deflection shot nothing happens

Other times I hit it with 1 or 2 108s Poof it disinigrates
Its all about where your aiming

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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 09:31 AM
Hmm, I rarely fly the P-40, but last I shot down 2 190A on a 42-Server. One of those 190 made a run on me, in which I receive some hits of MG151/20 shells. Even damaged I shot that 190 down after releasing the centerline bomb. I don't understand where the problem is to some guys./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:14 AM
jo kimura,
"to be a Whiner " scheint neuerdings das Hobby von sehr vielen leuten zu sein /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif .

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It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 08:51 PM
"I know the 190 is tough, I don't question that at all, but was it THAT tough???"

Translation: Oleg please tone down the 190. I can't take facing accurately modelled LW planes. Please give me back my stacked deck so I can return to my deluded ACE notions.

I cannot believe the number of VVS whiners that have cropped up now that they must face a real challenge from 190s. Unreal.

And I'm sure this coupled with VVS whining in the Russian forums will mean Oleg will pander and the 190 will be a dog once more in the next patch.

Just know this -- VVS pilots are the biggest bunch of whining hypocrites ever. The very one's who intentionally derailed the 190 cockpit debate by accusing us of whining are now in here crying because they're getting their a$$e$ handed to them in spite of all the advantages they still have.

Pathetic.

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 09:23 PM
Pre-patch, I could get 5-7 Me109's or 4-6 Fw190's with one loadout, extra ammo, in the P47. For the Fw190's, you need to be 10-20 degrees off angle (not direct six behind), to the side or above. This essentially represented historical accuracy based on P47 and P51 "ace in a day" sorties with these kills, so the 50's effectiveness/bandit DM ratio seemed okay to me.

With the patch, I haven't completed the rerun of this, so I can't say. It appears without enough study, that the ROF is increased. I have seen the very nice effect now of knocking off 190/109 wings and getting that pleasant snapping bandit going out of control in front of you /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I use 400/350 settings for guns/cannons (cannons are the other 4 guns on the inner sets ).

But, 190's were tough pre-patch dead behind... and still are..

What is weak (opinion, not fact) is the low yawing authority of rudders in FB...

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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:21 PM
Online a couple of times using a P-39 today I managed to nail two FW's. Neither from the rear angle...they were sustained deflection bursts and they lost complete control of their aircraft, the engine died, and in one case I knocked his tail off.

It seems only the 6 o'clock position stops the shots...because I too have experienced this.

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XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:22 PM
you killed 5-7 109 or 4-5 Fw190 with 1 loadout ? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
what is the english word for " Gr¶ßenwahn"

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Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 11:29 PM
@Boandlgramer
>megalomaniac<
to say the least
;-)

-Jack-

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 12:08 AM
Flying the P47 I found it pretty easy to take out a 190 if it gives me a little deflection. One good rake across the side is usually enough to start it smoking of burning.


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XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:07 AM
you guys should stop thinking of the undestroyable 190.
The focke is unable to operate as fighter anymore with 1 or 3 hits in one wing.
You get verry slow (about 100km/h and more than normal), can't turn and the pilot has to fight with it's own plane to fly in one direction without stall.
most off the exasive manouvers form 190s with hits in the wings are because of the all-time stall characteristics the plane gets if it is a bit! (as i said 1 to 3 hits are enough) damaged in one wing.

Pilot tries to circle around (if pursiuted), plane stalls imediatly.
Pilot recovers, plane stalls...
recover...> verry slow > plane stalls

and in the end you'll get shot down or crash.

I can say this because i often pilot the Fw190 (cause it still surives much longer than a 109, but if you are hit and no one helps you, you are dead meat)

as far as i noticed (from the little experiance i have in this planes) the LA's don't seem to become slower or stall easyer with holes in the wings. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

and the guns of the P47 are verry strong.
A short burst is enough to shoot down everything. (sometimes you need 2 bursts depending on your aiming)

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Message Edited on 08/20/0312:14AM by ToP_BlackSheep

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:14 AM
Did not realize that.

I'll have to slow em down, then nail them with my 37mm then http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I think that is why many times I prefer the p39

S!
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Message Edited on 08/20/0312:15AM by Recon_609IAP

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 08:41 AM
Remember that those .50 cals are in wings. So when you shoot at your enemy, your gun convergence plays quite a big part in efficiency of you hits. Imagine your guns are set to 300m, and you are shooting target at 150 mhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Same problem with Emils wing cannons, and it has only two of themhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Masi

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 08:51 AM
Agreed BlackSheep. A few hits and the 190's speed becomes crippled severely. I doubt this happens offline with AI as I have seen shot up Yaks and other planes with hardly any wing left flying as if they were never touched. I fly the 190 exclusively, and losing half your speed is not much fun. The wing dips like crazy also, maneuvers become almost impossible.

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XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 08:58 AM
Maybe it's my poor marksmanship , but I noticed that it takes me alot of rounds to get noticeable damage on FW190 when firing from a P-47. I see lots of flashes all over that plane but only little chunks come out. On another plane I ordered wingman to take him out from dead six and he fired a half second burst and the FW wing ripped off!


Gunnery aside could it be that the AI gun lethality is modeled differently? Anyone else notice a disparity here?

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 11:11 AM
some one posted gun cam a while back of p51 on tail of 190, after about 2mins of footage the 190 was stil flying.

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XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:41 PM
LeLv28_Masi wrote:
- Remember that those .50 cals are in wings. So when
- you shoot at your enemy, your gun convergence plays
- quite a big part in efficiency of you hits.

As does relative roll. It is possible to be rolled
relative to the target, and if out of convergence
your shots will go above one wing of the target, and
below the other wing. That's one big advantage of
having guns concentrated in the nose - relative roll
and convergence are less serious issues. It's just
a lot easier to put guns in the wings, though.

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:09 PM
- That's one big advantage of
- having guns concentrated in the nose - relative roll
- and convergence are less serious issues. It's just
- a lot easier to put guns in the wings, though.


And when they are in the wings you do not have to sync them with the prop.

I believe the sync (and slower RoF) has not been modelled in FB.. The maximum rate of fire for a weapon seems to be correct but seems a little funny to have plasma flying through the prop at that rate. What was the real RoF for the mg:s on these aircraft? Sync especially when done with contemporary mechanics might have reduced the rof quite a lot right?

This is just a hunch so other views are welcome /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

-possu