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lilkanyon
12-17-2008, 11:05 PM
Did you know that there are documents claiming some of Sala'adin's scouts were rooted to the spot while scouting Masyaf (which is real and the largest of many Assassin fortresses)?

Also, it is told that the Grand Master asked some of his thralls to jump from the ramparts (just like Altair but with death as the outcome) to show their allegiance, and they did?

Also, the word 'Assassin' comes from the word 'Hashishin' (among many spellings) which is the claim that the assassins were drugged or else they wouldn't give their lives?

What history do you know of the Assassins? I could give a bit more, but I want to know if anyone else has anything to add.

Ubisoft did pretty darn good at research.

drfeelgood8849
12-17-2008, 11:25 PM
*sigh* all of this is in the dev diaries and blogs and what not. plus there are many threads already pertaining to this topic. sorry dude.

lilkanyon
12-18-2008, 12:35 AM
I'm sure there are. There are also many, many books on such subjects..but if it is not kept in the public eye, such things are forgotten or ignored. I did not ask if people read the dev diaries or past entries, but what they know on the history of assassins. Sorry dude. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

drfeelgood8849
12-18-2008, 12:54 AM
fair enough i was simply implying that there are already threads that cover this topic and there really doesnt necessarily NEED to be another one. i will admit it is kind of nice to see these kinds of posts again. like you, (im assuming) how historically accurate the game is and the whole immersion into the time period is what made you love the game.

and to add to the thread, the reason the "blend to look like a monk/scholar" feature is in the game is because to assassinate (i think conrad de montferrat?) they actually did disguise themselves as said monks.

lilkanyon
12-18-2008, 01:02 AM
Yes, or merchants, or whatever it took to get the job done..and btw..I learned my info from books (what are those again? lol) not the internet or dev notes. It was refreshing to go back into my books and see that the game took up a bit of history that had little significance until I started playing this game. I found it extremely fascinating. I had to go back and read "The Crusades through Arab Eyes" by Amin Maalouf because it does go into a bit of Assassin history, and as we all know, what does not make the front page of the news gets forgotten or passed over.

I really only wanted people to understand that this game is not based in pure fiction..besides..who really reads the dev notes anyway? lol

drfeelgood8849
12-18-2008, 01:11 AM
well prior to the release a lot of people followed the dev diaries and blog. ill have to pic up that book, it sounds like a good read. i never actually looked back at the historical portion much after i played, i really just based it off of what i already knew. i took more to all of the abstergo plans, codes, chaos theory, mandlebrot set, ect. stuff, which is all interesting as well. i should go back and read up a bit.

lilkanyon
12-18-2008, 02:20 AM
That sounds interesting..tbh..I don't do much internet research..I don't trust it..if it's not in print it means (to me) that you're not always willing to spend the dough to back up your theories. Like in the game (but even worse these days) you can't always believe what you read so I tend to at least consider print (with it's costs of publication) more then just whatever people want to publish on Google. Not only that, but reading on a computer screen hurts the hell out of my eyes../sigh.

Still though, I'd really like to hear what other people have discovered of Assassination history, dev notes aside (or even if you THINK you're repeating dev notes, please tell). Ghenis Khan's son destroyed most of the text of this clan, so history is scant. It breaks my heart. So like the library of Alexandria. Such loss.

drfeelgood8849
12-18-2008, 11:17 AM
haha you make me want to head down to the library and go do some real research. i totally see where youre coming from concerning the reliability of information from the internet. *sigh* wikipedia, why do you let anyone write what they want?


I tend to at least consider print (with it's costs of publication) more then just whatever people want to publish on Google

i prefer the physical thing as well. especially a new book, when you can still smell glue on the spine.(oh god im such a nerd http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif ) ok back on topic in the 1930's hashasheen was used as something along the lines of trouble maker. its not really related to the game but its kind of interesting.

lilkanyon
12-18-2008, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by drfeelgood8849:
haha you make me want to head down to the library and go do some real research. i totally see where youre coming from concerning the reliability of information from the internet. *sigh* wikipedia, why do you let anyone write what they want?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I tend to at least consider print (with it's costs of publication) more then just whatever people want to publish on Google

i prefer the physical thing as well. especially a new book, when you can still smell glue on the spine.(oh god im such a nerd http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif ) ok back on topic in the 1930's hashasheen was used as something along the lines of trouble maker. its not really related to the game but its kind of interesting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hash was used along the lines of troublemaker in the 30's? I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean. Can you explain further?

drfeelgood8849
12-18-2008, 03:54 PM
i meant the name hashasheen was given to those who were considered trouble makers.

lilkanyon
12-18-2008, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by drfeelgood8849:
i meant the name hashasheen was given to those who were considered trouble makers.

Really? In the US? or where? I've never heard of that before.

drfeelgood8849
12-18-2008, 06:08 PM
i dont remember where i read it in this one book my friend has, its called 10000 random things you dont know or something like that, just happened to be in there.

caswallawn_2k7
12-18-2008, 06:12 PM
Dr find out that that book is I love useless info it helps in pub quizes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

drfeelgood8849
12-18-2008, 06:15 PM
haha alrighty then, i never go over to his old house anymore though since he moved out so it might be kind of hard but ill try.

lilkanyon
12-18-2008, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by caswallawn_2k7:
Dr find out that that book is I love useless info it helps in pub quizes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

LOL! Do you watch game shows too? Naa.. j/k man. My old man thinks all my ancient history knowlege is random worthless stuff that I find excuses to spout off at him about. I can see his eyes glaze over the minute I bring up Egypt...lol!

Grandmaster_Z
12-19-2008, 07:31 AM
wikipedia that ****, son

***don't bypass the autocensor -thanks

lilkanyon
12-20-2008, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Grandmaster_Z:
wikipedia that ****, son

***don't bypass the autocensor -thanks

umm...anyhoo..this topic got sorta hijacked (partly by me I suppose) so lets try to get back on track. I love tidbits of history, and I'm sure, like the Dr says I could go look it up in Dev notes, etc...or buy a couple dozen more books (on my Xmas list), lets consolidate. Any other interesting stuff you've seen in game that could fit with the little history we have of the Assassins of the 11th and 12th century?

edited for typo

Grandmaster_Z
12-30-2008, 01:25 PM
here is some real history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_ad-Din_Sinan

The Old Man of the Mountain was a name given to Rashid ad-Din Sinan, one of the leaders of the Syrian wing of the Hashshashin sect and an important figure in the history of the Crusades.Rashid enjoyed considerable independence from the Nizari centre in Alamut and some writings attribute him with a semi-divine status. He died between 1192 and 1194 and was succeeded by men appointed from Alamut, which regained a closer supervision over Masyaf.

*this is who al mualim is based on*

RedSpider
01-05-2009, 06:54 AM
I don't mean to intrude on this post...But i was curious.
Is there any relevance to the missing ring finger? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

moqqy
01-05-2009, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by lilkanyon:
Ubisoft did pretty darn good at research.

Huh? The assassins as portrayed in the game are historically very inaccurate. Ubi just put together some myths and added stuff they thought was cool(like the missing ring finger).

RedSpider
01-07-2009, 06:31 AM
I see... Thay must have got some things pretty accurate though, so as not to get scrutinised by people like us http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Anyhoo, could someone help me with this aswell..Why do some of the Templars sound British, and some shout at me in German and French aswell. Is this cus they travelled a lot or were from all over the world? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

moqqy
01-07-2009, 08:31 AM
No, they do not have things "pretty accurate". They even toned down the accuracy so they wouldn't offend people. Before the game was released, you could hear people call you a "hashashin" but now they just call you an assassin.

And the Templars were from all over the world, yes.

obliviondoll
01-08-2009, 10:27 PM
And the ring finger thing is rumoured to have been a real re-introduction technique, the background of which being that the ring finger was removed to signify that the person is now "wedded" to the order.

The rumours link it to several secretive groups/societies, not just the Assassins (I first heard of it in connection with the Templars, actually http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif ), and was generally supposed to be for people who left the group and returned, as a test of their loyalty.

moqqy
01-09-2009, 04:56 AM
No, they did not cut off the ring finger. This can be concluded with common sense. No real source states so anyways(because they didn't do that).

bcrreeww228
01-10-2009, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by moqqy:
No, they do not have things "pretty accurate". They even toned down the accuracy so they wouldn't offend people.

did you notice while the game loads a screen comes up that says the game is made by a team of many cultural and religious views? the game is not perfectly accurate because of this.

moqqy
01-11-2009, 08:58 AM
Errr? How does the fact that it's being made by a team of many cultural and religious views stop it from being accurate?

I hope you realize it's there only because they don't want to **** little girls off who think it's a huge insult to have someone kill Christians http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

bcrreeww228
01-11-2009, 10:29 AM
haven't you heard of "telling history the way you saw it"? for example, in a US history book, the writer would favor the US in the Revolutionary War. a British history book would tell the story from a different viewpoint

also, seeing that message would not comfort someone who would be angered by killing Christians. it would just make them think some other religious group is implying that the Christians should be wiped out.

finally, the writing in blood at the end is a prime example of combining all the views into the game.

moqqy
01-11-2009, 12:49 PM
That makes no sense what-so-ever. It appears you do not understand why they put that message there and cannot even comprehend what it means. Do you not UNDERSTAND that the message means they are neutral, therefore it should mean the game is perfectly accurate.

Although that message has nothing to do with the accuracy or the way "they saw it".

bcrreeww228
01-11-2009, 07:06 PM
then you just contradicted yourself. remember this?


Originally posted by moqqy:
No, they do not have things "pretty accurate". They even toned down the accuracy so they wouldn't offend people.

if they are all neutral then they must be pretty accurate. the team who made this game musta done alotta research cuz they know their stuff alot better than you apparently.

moqqy
01-11-2009, 09:43 PM
Are you joking?

Fine, let me take you through this again. Listen carefully.

The text you told me about (it's being made by a team of many cultural and religious views) is there to indicate that there are multiple religions in the team, such as muslims and Christians.
Why is this? So they wouldn't come out as "Christians that are slaughtering muslims" or "muslims that are slaughtering Christians". They want to tell the player that since they are of every religion, they do not have bias towards anyone.

Do you understand?

Now, I have never claimed they "don't know their stuff alot better than me". Perhaps they do! But they don't show that in the game. The game is highly inaccurate.

This is the last time I will explain something as simple as this to you.

zgubilici
01-11-2009, 09:54 PM
Guys, please keep the debate civil, otherwise the thread will be closed.

Fair warning.

moqqy
01-12-2009, 05:47 AM
But the debate is civil, isn't it?

zgubilici
01-12-2009, 10:46 AM
It is for now - if it wasn't, the thread would have already been closed.
The "fair warning" message has a preventive nature: it was made simply to prevent a more personal take on the debate at this point, as it promises to appear from the comments you both are directing to one another.
So just make sure it doesn't escalate to that.

Thanks.

bcrreeww228
01-12-2009, 04:26 PM
fair enough. i think we both could've been a little clearer in what we said.

and the moderator thing is a great idea. i appreciate what you guys do.

moqqy
01-13-2009, 02:14 AM
No, I could not have been any more clearer. And your statement earlier still makes no sense. But I suppose you never will explain it, as it seems you are more busy doing.. something else.

bcrreeww228
01-13-2009, 04:36 PM
ok whatever you say bill nye.

for a video game, it is very accurate. not many games attempt to use real historical events and put together an alternate timeline for the future, if there even are any others.

obviously the game has a few flaws, but now that the makers are aware of them they have a chance to perfect AC2.

AC is a brilliant step into the new generation of video games because of its historical accuracy.

moqqy
01-13-2009, 10:39 PM
AC is not historically accurate when it comes to the assassins. AC 2 is very very unlikely to correct this as they would have to say that AC 1 didn't exist then.

We're not talking about if AC is a great game or not. We're talking about the historical accuracy of the assassins.

bcrreeww228
01-14-2009, 04:01 PM
there won't even be the same assassins in AC2 if and when it is set in a different time period.

lilkanyon
01-18-2009, 03:39 PM
Moqqy,you state Ubi was inaccurate in their interpretations of the history of Assassins...explain where the inaccuracies are in your opinion? I would like to know.

moqqy
01-19-2009, 12:49 PM
The clothing, organization, persons, training, rules, switchblade, missing ring finger.. the list goes on. I thought about those in 5 seconds.

Grandmaster_Z
01-19-2009, 02:05 PM
"Inspired by historical events and characters.

This work of fiction was designed, developed and produced by a multicultrual team of various religious faiths and beliefs."

bcrreeww228
01-19-2009, 02:19 PM
Alright moqqy I see what your saying now. I thought you meant the whole game was completely inaccurate. I'll agree with you they coulda done a better job with the Assassins but you have to admit the finger thing is pretty cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

moqqy
01-19-2009, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Grandmaster_Z:
"Inspired by historical events and characters.

This work of fiction was designed, developed and produced by a multicultrual team of various religious faiths and beliefs."

"Some completely random stuff here that has nothing to do with the thread that is being discussed"

lilkanyon
01-31-2009, 03:36 PM
Here's the real history...assassin spends months in the presence of target..gets chance to kill him...kills him..assassin dies...great game eh?

There are many aspects of the game that are based more on legend then fact. Leap of faith-legend, supernatural powers of Assassins-legend. No, the finger thing is not true history..at least as far as I've read. But Ubi based the game on approximate historical events of the day..yes King Richard and Saladin were fighting..etc...yes they tried to keep it 'religion neutral' to keep fanatics from bombing their headquarters. Can you blame them? The moral of the story is..the true assassins welcomed death because paradise awaited them and that makes for one really crappy video game...so look over the 'inaccuracies' and just enjoy the game for what it does offer.

lilkanyon
01-31-2009, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Grandmaster_Z:
here is some real history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_ad-Din_Sinan

The Old Man of the Mountain was a name given to Rashid ad-Din Sinan, one of the leaders of the Syrian wing of the Hashshashin sect and an important figure in the history of the Crusades.Rashid enjoyed considerable independence from the Nizari centre in Alamut and some writings attribute him with a semi-divine status. He died between 1192 and 1194 and was succeeded by men appointed from Alamut, which regained a closer supervision over Masyaf.

*this is who al mualim is based on*

Thank you Z I was unaware it was Sinan Al Mualim was based on (forgive me for not reading dev notes if it was stated there)..but this was the kind of history I was hoping people would contribute with. For instance...Rafiq or Rafik (there are many spellings) means 'comrade'.

moqqy
02-01-2009, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by lilkanyon:
Here's the real history...assassin spends months in the presence of target..gets chance to kill him...kills him..assassin dies...great game eh?

There are many aspects of the game that are based more on legend then fact. Leap of faith-legend, supernatural powers of Assassins-legend. No, the finger thing is not true history..at least as far as I've read. But Ubi based the game on approximate historical events of the day..yes King Richard and Saladin were fighting..etc...yes they tried to keep it 'religion neutral' to keep fanatics from bombing their headquarters. Can you blame them? The moral of the story is..the true assassins welcomed death because paradise awaited them and that makes for one really crappy video game...so look over the 'inaccuracies' and just enjoy the game for what it does offer.

No, the assassins did not usually spend months in the presence of the target. That happened, yes, but often they just straight out assassinated the target.

Grafferu
02-02-2009, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by lilkanyon:
Also, the word 'Assassin' comes from the word 'Hashishin' (among many spellings) which is the claim that the assassins were drugged or else they wouldn't give their lives?
and 'Hashishin' comes from "Hashish" (more commonly called hash, is a potent form of cannabis produced by collecting and processing the most potent material that female marijuana plants naturally generate as part of their growth cycle)
thus they weren't drugged, hasis is not really a drug, they just "operated" under the influence of hash
now u realize that Ubisoft couldn't make Altair smoke weed and hash during gameplay (that would've been so cool tho) cuz of the legislation

Grandmaster_Z
02-03-2009, 07:21 AM
the whole "smoking hash and then assassinationg someone" is rediculous. have you ever smoked weed? can you imagine being high and trying to do anything that requires some sort of thought or coordination? no way in hell.

AasaHassan means followers of Hassan. Given the pillars of devoted adherence to the path of the faith, it is unlikely that the usually accepted "Assassin" postulate is accurate. Hassan had his son executed for drinking wine and another person was banished from Alamut for playing the flute. The theories of Hassan being associated with Hashish are, at best, debatable. Furthermore there have emerged traces that there was a name given to Alamut by the people with Nizar? leanings: al-Assas "the foundation". It was the base for all operations that Hassan wished to effect. Members of al-Assas were known as al-Assas?n.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan-i_Sabbah

mclovin889
02-03-2009, 04:58 PM
in my understanding altair kills all people who is doing the good things for they people...and if that how the world is like is with war and thoose stuff..

(inside the game of course)

moqqy
02-05-2009, 11:36 AM
Hashashin is a name given to them by their enemies. The term also means "troublemaker" - or it used to mean that. They changed that in the 1940's, I think.

So, either they were called "hashashin" because it means "troublemaker" or an outlaw of sorts, or because they wanted to spread false propaganda about them, claiming they use hashish.

lilkanyon
02-06-2009, 09:44 PM
In a nutshell..this post sums up alot
http://forums.assassinscreed-m...topic.php?f=12&t=804 (http://forums.assassinscreed-maps.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=804)

lilkanyon
02-06-2009, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by moqqy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lilkanyon:
Here's the real history...assassin spends months in the presence of target..gets chance to kill him...kills him..assassin dies...great game eh?

There are many aspects of the game that are based more on legend then fact. Leap of faith-legend, supernatural powers of Assassins-legend. No, the finger thing is not true history..at least as far as I've read. But Ubi based the game on approximate historical events of the day..yes King Richard and Saladin were fighting..etc...yes they tried to keep it 'religion neutral' to keep fanatics from bombing their headquarters. Can you blame them? The moral of the story is..the true assassins welcomed death because paradise awaited them and that makes for one really crappy video game...so look over the 'inaccuracies' and just enjoy the game for what it does offer.

No, the assassins did not usually spend months in the presence of the target. That happened, yes, but often they just straight out assassinated the target. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually it was more typical for them to spend months integrating with targets then not... In the beginning of their history, they were capable of killing in public mosques ect..but as their legend intensified, and they were prosecuted, they did have to spend months gaining trust.

Moqqy? You seemed to have done some research, can you share your opinions and research without insulting the opinions of others? Because many of the records of the Assassins were destroyed, it is difficult to separate fact from fiction...even for historians. Even that people are discussing the subject should be respected, if not necessarily agreed with.

moqqy
02-08-2009, 11:56 AM
Actually, no. When they became more known, it became HARDER for them to spend months close to the target as people were more suspicious. A sudden strike left no place for suspicion. By far, most of their recorded assassinations were carried out "instantly", not by sleeper agents.

How have I insulted the opinions of others? And yes, a lot of information was lost on the assassins... however, there's still a great deal available. And common sense helps solve most "myths" about the assassins without the need for historical recordings.

bcrreeww228
02-08-2009, 08:45 PM
I just came up with a great idea. Since moqqy thinks he knows everything about the assassins, why doesn't he make a game better than AC! I look forward to its release!

moqqy
02-09-2009, 05:07 AM
I have a suggestion.

1) Grow brains.
2) Read the thread
3) ?????
4) Profit

But as that seems highly unlikely, I'll explain it to you. I promise to use simple words.

Now.. I have not said there is anything wrong with Assassin's Creed. This thread that you have posted in (even though you don't understand what it's about) is not about whether or not Assassin's Creed is a good game or not. It's about the real Assassins. Assassin's Creed's assassins do not have much to do with the real things is all I am saying. Now, whether this is bad or not is up to you.

And when have I said I want to develop a game? You make no sense. Or perhaps you're one of those "Oh my Golly Gosh! He says something is bad! But he can't say that unless he does/has done something better!" (Now, I remind you, again, that I have not said AC is bad).

Do you NOT understand how very, very flawed that, err, "argument" is? I'll let you think about it.

I have also never claimed I know everything about the assassins. But if someone knows more than you.. it must seem like he knows everything. I understand.

But please, before you come up with more idiotic posts that are trying to be smart.. send me a PM and I'll check if it makes any sense. Thank me later.

Grafferu
02-09-2009, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Grandmaster_Z:
the whole "smoking hash and then assassinationg someone" is rediculous. have you ever smoked weed? can you imagine being high and trying to do anything that requires some sort of thought or coordination? no way in hell.
hahaha I have to explain sumthin here
it's believed they used to smoke BEFORE the assassination, perhaps the night before, in the game we see Altair going to bed or sumnthin like that, and then we see him in the morning getting up and going for the target, legend has it assassins used to get high that night, and it makes sense, cause if u smoke weed one night (and yes I did "experienced" it myself quite some times http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif , to answer your question) the next morning u're fresh as hell, u're thinkin very clearly, u're relaxed, u're exactly how u should be before an important task like killing someone, where u need your body, mind and senses working at max, so yeah it makes perfect sense to me the word might come from Hashish

bcrreeww228
02-09-2009, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by moqqy:
I have a suggestion.

1) Grow brains.
2) Read the thread
3) ?????
4) Profit

But as that seems highly unlikely, I'll explain it to you. I promise to use simple words.

Now.. I have not said there is anything wrong with Assassin's Creed. This thread that you have posted in (even though you don't understand what it's about) is not about whether or not Assassin's Creed is a good game or not. It's about the real Assassins. Assassin's Creed's assassins do not have much to do with the real things is all I am saying. Now, whether this is bad or not is up to you.

And when have I said I want to develop a game? You make no sense. Or perhaps you're one of those "Oh my Golly Gosh! He says something is bad! But he can't say that unless he does/has done something better!" (Now, I remind you, again, that I have not said AC is bad).

Do you NOT understand how very, very flawed that, err, "argument" is? I'll let you think about it.

I have also never claimed I know everything about the assassins. But if someone knows more than you.. it must seem like he knows everything. I understand.

But please, before you come up with more idiotic posts that are trying to be smart.. send me a PM and I'll check if it makes any sense. Thank me later.

Clearly the insignificance of your brain has clouded your better judgement.
1) I'll number my ideas so you can understand them better http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif.
2) I never once stated that you said AC was bad. I agree with you thats its a great game.
3) I never said you wanted to develop a game, I'm just suggesting it. Jeez, can't I help someone out? I politely stated that you could make a high-quality game with your knowledge of the assassins.
4) Maybe I should've suggested you become a normal person and looked at the game from a more realistic viewpoint. How do you know exactly what the assassins were like a thousand years ago? I don't think you're old enough to tell. Stories change as they are passed down from generation to generation. There have been so many theories about the assassins, so how can you be sure which one is right? Everything else in the game is very accurate historically, so why would they not research the assassins?

stealthero
02-09-2009, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Grafferu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grandmaster_Z:
the whole "smoking hash and then assassinationg someone" is rediculous. have you ever smoked weed? can you imagine being high and trying to do anything that requires some sort of thought or coordination? no way in hell.
hahaha I have to explain sumthin here
it's believed they used to smoke BEFORE the assassination, perhaps the night before, in the game we see Altair going to bed or sumnthin like that, and then we see him in the morning getting up and going for the target, legend has it assassins used to get high that night, and it makes sense, cause if u smoke weed one night (and yes I did "experienced" it myself quite some times http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif , to answer your question) the next morning u're fresh as hell, u're thinkin very clearly, u're relaxed, u're exactly how u should be before an important task like killing someone, where u need your body, mind and senses working at max, so yeah it makes perfect sense to me the word might come from Hashish </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hahaha, proudly I can say Ive never smoked weed in my life, but Ive seen what it does to some guys XD.
I agree with you Grafferu, your version of the hash stuff sounds with a lot more of sense XD

Grandmaster_Z
02-09-2009, 08:35 PM
well, except that smoking and drinking is not allowed in Islam. It is considered a very bad sin to do either.

moqqy
02-11-2009, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by bcrreeww228:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moqqy:
I have a suggestion.

1) Grow brains.
2) Read the thread
3) ?????
4) Profit

But as that seems highly unlikely, I'll explain it to you. I promise to use simple words.

Now.. I have not said there is anything wrong with Assassin's Creed. This thread that you have posted in (even though you don't understand what it's about) is not about whether or not Assassin's Creed is a good game or not. It's about the real Assassins. Assassin's Creed's assassins do not have much to do with the real things is all I am saying. Now, whether this is bad or not is up to you.

And when have I said I want to develop a game? You make no sense. Or perhaps you're one of those "Oh my Golly Gosh! He says something is bad! But he can't say that unless he does/has done something better!" (Now, I remind you, again, that I have not said AC is bad).

Do you NOT understand how very, very flawed that, err, "argument" is? I'll let you think about it.

I have also never claimed I know everything about the assassins. But if someone knows more than you.. it must seem like he knows everything. I understand.

But please, before you come up with more idiotic posts that are trying to be smart.. send me a PM and I'll check if it makes any sense. Thank me later.

Clearly the insignificance of your brain has clouded your better judgement.
1) I'll number my ideas so you can understand them better http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif.
2) I never once stated that you said AC was bad. I agree with you thats its a great game.
3) I never said you wanted to develop a game, I'm just suggesting it. Jeez, can't I help someone out? I politely stated that you could make a high-quality game with your knowledge of the assassins.
4) Maybe I should've suggested you become a normal person and looked at the game from a more realistic viewpoint. How do you know exactly what the assassins were like a thousand years ago? I don't think you're old enough to tell. Stories change as they are passed down from generation to generation. There have been so many theories about the assassins, so how can you be sure which one is right? Everything else in the game is very accurate historically, so why would they not research the assassins? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I mean, come on. You could at least TRY to read what I say. I never said AC is a great game, either.

I won't even bother answering your "3)" as it's just extremely childish. Don't try to be a smart-***.

There are a lot of records about the assassins. That, combined with common sense and knowledge about the culture and the location of their fortresses tells a great deal about what they were like.
And I'm not "sure" my theory is right. Just like you can't be sure the Earth isn't flat and you're not dreaming all this up. But other than that, yeah, I'm pretty darn sure.

And who says they did not research the assassins? Perhaps they did, but 1) they didn't want to offend anyone 2) they thought they'd add some "kewl" things 3) they just wanted to create their own assassins

Grafferu
02-11-2009, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Grandmaster_Z:
well, except that smoking and drinking is not allowed in Islam. It is considered a very bad sin to do either.
in the beginning not all assassins were faithful to Allah

bcrreeww228
02-11-2009, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by moqqy:
I mean, come on. You could at least TRY to read what I say. I never said AC is a great game, either.

I won't even bother answering your "3)" as it's just extremely childish. Don't try to be a smart-***.

There are a lot of records about the assassins. That, combined with common sense and knowledge about the culture and the location of their fortresses tells a great deal about what they were like.
And I'm not "sure" my theory is right. Just like you can't be sure the Earth isn't flat and you're not dreaming all this up. But other than that, yeah, I'm pretty darn sure.

And who says they did not research the assassins? Perhaps they did, but 1) they didn't want to offend anyone 2) they thought they'd add some "kewl" things 3) they just wanted to create their own assassins

I'm not trying to be a smart***. I AM one.

And the flat earth metaphor is an embarrassment because the world is clearly round. Magellan proved that to us.

Also, I mentioned they probably added some cool things earlier. Like the thing with the ring finger, okay, maybe it's not real, but its kick***.

And honestly, you have criticized the depiction of the assassins, but I have not heard from you what they were like. You say "that is NOT how it was", but you don't back it up with how it really was. I'd like to hear some factual info, not attempting to disprove something with opinions.

moqqy
02-12-2009, 05:19 AM
No, Magellan proved nothing. You don't know if it's made up - and even if it isn't there are still theories that claim it didn't prove it. For example: http://theflatearthsociety.org...ex.php?topic=25753.0 (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25753.0)

And yes, you mentioned it. Then why do you say "WELL WHY WOULDN'T ASSASSINS BE ACCURATE THEN" afterwards? So you're basically saying "Yeah they're not accurate but heck, they are!"

You can ask me specific questions about the assassins. I am not going to type a hundred page essay about them just because you asked.

Haddrian
02-12-2009, 02:31 PM
I don't know if its the kind of informations you are searching about, but i read somewhere that the Hashashin where wearing black cloths. They where also carying a blade (dagger) with which they where killing their target. Generaly they were executing their victims on public places, mosques, markets, central places to let the population see what they were able to do.
After a "contract" if I can call it that way, the assassin was not running away. He was staying there, saying his message out loud to the witnesses and when the guards were arriving he was killed without fighting. That is, appearently, why the citizens thought they where drugged (who would accept to die without trying to get away?).
On an other hand, some say that the word "Hassashin" came from "hassas" which means guide. A theorie (used in assasin's creed) says the Assassins where drugged only when they arrived in the Order. The drug was making them fall asleep like if they were dying. During that time, they were carryied and waked up in a wonderfull garden with pretty women. It was supposed to show them how heaven was for the one who were dying for their country. That would explain why they were not fighting... why would they wait any longer to go in such a Heaven http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif
Ubisoft made research to find the plans of the cities they have put in the game such as Damascus, Jerusalem, Acre...
As Jade Raymond says in an interview, they did found some plans but they did not used them because of the gameplay. In the middle of Jerusalem, there was a huge main street and it was impossible to hide in it. It would also have been boring because it was not allowing parcourt (free run).
For the costumes part, the game is realy well done. The Templars, Hospitallers, Teutonics, even the guards have accurate armours.
Finally, as you can see, the Assassin's part in AC is not perfecly that accurate. But still, the people Alta´r is executing have all existed (but not at the same time). Also,the environnement is quite realistic and really well done.
It can also lead the players to go search for information about that time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p.s.: I am really sorry for my english... but its not my first language http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif Please forgive my mistakes and wrong sentences. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

bcrreeww228
02-12-2009, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by moqqy:
No, Magellan proved nothing. You don't know if it's made up - and even if it isn't there are still theories that claim it didn't prove it. For example: http://theflatearthsociety.org...ex.php?topic=25753.0 (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25753.0)

And yes, you mentioned it. Then why do you say "WELL WHY WOULDN'T ASSASSINS BE ACCURATE THEN" afterwards? So you're basically saying "Yeah they're not accurate but heck, they are!"

You can ask me specific questions about the assassins. I am not going to type a hundred page essay about them just because you asked.

Okay do you seriously think the earth could be flat? I mean, c'mon.

And it is entirely possible that they got something right in designing the assassins. Obviously there could be some false info, but there also could be some things correct. So yeah, "they're not accurate but heck, they are!"

lilkanyon
02-12-2009, 10:36 PM
The Assassins were never proven to smoke hash, in fact it is believed to be pure slander on the part of the Sunnis and Ismaili haters to further provoke hatred toward the Nizaries. The word was picked up by the Westerners who naturally expanded the myths and legends of these 'secret society killers' and could not understand how a man could just throw his life away unless he was on drugs.

lilkanyon
02-12-2009, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by moqqy:
No, Magellan proved nothing. You don't know if it's made up - and even if it isn't there are still theories that claim it didn't prove it. For example: http://theflatearthsociety.org...ex.php?topic=25753.0 (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25753.0)

And yes, you mentioned it. Then why do you say "WELL WHY WOULDN'T ASSASSINS BE ACCURATE THEN" afterwards? So you're basically saying "Yeah they're not accurate but heck, they are!"

You can ask me specific questions about the assassins. I am not going to type a hundred page essay about them just because you asked.

Please, now you really are getting ridiculous. The space program proved the earth round. You're just getting off on irritating people now. If all you can do is be over opinionated and egomaniacal then please leave us lowbie, stupid, uninformed people to discuss this topic as we see fit and you can move on to more intelligent (and clearly arrogant) people to talk to.

kut_throat_kilr
02-13-2009, 01:18 AM
I think the game has some historical accuracy to it..but on the other hand there are completely fictional parts to it. A lot of the things in this game are there to sell it.

I dont think anyone who plays the game would think its about killing christians or anything like that. Anyone who fallows the story-line will see that the brotherhood isnt out to kill religous people, (ie Christians) but people who's agenda is to benifit themselves and bring harm or misfortune to the common man.

I know that most of the stuff about the Templars is true. But there are some things that are completely fictional. The treasure depicted in the game is fiction. The Templars were bankers and protecters of pilgrams to the Holy Land. And were exterminated when the Church found them to be too powerfull. Their treasure was gold and gems...and as legend has it, the gaurds of the Holy Blood Line.

As for the Order of Assassins, I dont know anything about that...so I cant say it was fictional or not. I just little about Assissins/Hassissins Back in the time of the game they were called Hassassins. Because most of them used the drug Hashish/Hassish. Thats all I really know about them...But I dont know for sure if they really used it. I just know thats where the name suppossedly came from...

kut_throat_kilr
02-13-2009, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by Haddrian:
I don't know if its the kind of informations you are searching about, but i read somewhere that the Hashashin where wearing black cloths. They where also carying a blade (dagger) with which they where killing their target. Generaly they were executing their victims on public places, mosques, markets, central places to let the population see what they were able to do.
After a "contract" if I can call it that way, the assassin was not running away. He was staying there, saying his message out loud to the witnesses and when the guards were arriving he was killed without fighting. That is, appearently, why the citizens thought they where drugged (who would accept to die without trying to get away?).
On an other hand, some say that the word "Hassashin" came from "hassas" which means guide. A theorie (used in assasin's creed) says the Assassins where drugged only when they arrived in the Order. The drug was making them fall asleep like if they were dying. During that time, they were carryied and waked up in a wonderfull garden with pretty women. It was supposed to show them how heaven was for the one who were dying for their country. That would explain why they were not fighting... why would they wait any longer to go in such a Heaven http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif
Ubisoft made research to find the plans of the cities they have put in the game such as Damascus, Jerusalem, Acre...
As Jade Raymond says in an interview, they did found some plans but they did not used them because of the gameplay. In the middle of Jerusalem, there was a huge main street and it was impossible to hide in it. It would also have been boring because it was not allowing parcourt (free run).
For the costumes part, the game is realy well done. The Templars, Hospitallers, Teutonics, even the guards have accurate armours.
Finally, as you can see, the Assassin's part in AC is not perfecly that accurate. But still, the people Alta´r is executing have all existed (but not at the same time). Also,the environnement is quite realistic and really well done.
It can also lead the players to go search for information about that time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p.s.: I am really sorry for my english... but its not my first language http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif Please forgive my mistakes and wrong sentences. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Thats the same suff Ive read about them...Again I dont know if they actually used hashish, hassish, dont know the exact spelling sorry, or not. But I read that they used it for meditation or religious/occult purposes. But other than the info you have posted, thats all I know.

moqqy
02-13-2009, 02:18 AM
Originally posted by lilkanyon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moqqy:
No, Magellan proved nothing. You don't know if it's made up - and even if it isn't there are still theories that claim it didn't prove it. For example: http://theflatearthsociety.org...ex.php?topic=25753.0 (http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=25753.0)

And yes, you mentioned it. Then why do you say "WELL WHY WOULDN'T ASSASSINS BE ACCURATE THEN" afterwards? So you're basically saying "Yeah they're not accurate but heck, they are!"

You can ask me specific questions about the assassins. I am not going to type a hundred page essay about them just because you asked.

Please, now you really are getting ridiculous. The space program proved the earth round. You're just getting off on irritating people now. If all you can do is be over opinionated and egomaniacal then please leave us lowbie, stupid, uninformed people to discuss this topic as we see fit and you can move on to more intelligent (and clearly arrogant) people to talk to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, you are getting ridiculous. I thought you'd at the very least understand what I'm getting at.. but, obviously not.

And I say again. The space program proved nothing. As in "you can't be 100% sure!" that you were telling me earlier.

I am sorry if I'm too well informed for your liking, but I'm not going to leave just because you don't like it when someone knows more than you.

And Haddrian.. the assassin's didn't wear black clothes. Or well, some of them did - but it wasn't their uniform or anything. They simply couldn't have had one or they would have been killed upon entering the city or when they're first spotted.

And well.. the assassins DID run away in some cases. The thing is, though, they didn't have the chance to run in most cases as they'd be surrounded by the bodyguards & soldiers. And one assassin, for example, jumped to his death after murdering his target. So they didn't just stand there and wait for death (but again - some of them did - however it wasn't a thing "expected" from them by their master)

The drugging part is complete fiction, so is the "heavenly garden" part. They couldn't have grown a garden at those altitudes, no such garden has been found or any signs of it and they had multiple fortresses so they'd need a lot of gardens down in the hostile areas..

kut_throat_kilr
02-13-2009, 01:09 PM
See most of the stuff that I have read and heard about them is purely speculation...there hasnt been much definative proof of them using hashish/hassish. But as someone posted earlier about the garden, I feel that there is some truth to that. Because in those days sprituality was used as a motivator or minipulator in many different ways. If they did have the gardens I think they would mostly be made up of poppi plants. Which in the middle east is very popular and a very beautiful looking flower. And with that thats where they got Hassish/Hashish and the speculation of the drug use stems from.

As for the uniforms or unified clothing, I think that is completely fictional. I would agree the had to dress like commoners so they could carry out their missions without being captured or killed. And as for running away them not having a chance to run away is a lot more fesiable than allowing themselves to be captured. But I think that most of them would have taken their own life to protect their mission or thier organization.

I am a huge history buff, and the templars/freemasons and other secret societies are really interesting to me. I have spent a lot of time researching some stuff, but other stuff I tend to make educated guesses and use common sense on.

Like I said in an earlier post tho, I dont think this game depicts the killing of Christians or anything like that. And if someone who plays the game and comes to that conclusion must be ignorant. (not saying anyone is) Its just that the story line doesnt make that assumption once durring the entire game. The killing of people, who just happen to be Christians, but are out to harm or bring misfourtune to the commoners of a city.

And that the Templars are out to benifit themselves and no one else, is false as well. They were created to protect pilgramers from bandits in the Holy Land. As well as bankers. Say a traveler was from Southern France and was traveling to the Holy Land. They would visit a Templar Castle and give them their money. Inturn the Templars would give them a slip of of papyrus with their amount and seal of the Templars. When the traveler got to where they were going they would to a Templar castle near them and they would get their money.

I mean there are going to be some Templars who want to benifit themselves, but you cant say that about the organization its self. What I find is ironic is that they were hired by the Church and then exterminated by the Church. But there are some secrets that we may never know about them. Therefor it leaves room for speculation and rumors about them.

bcrreeww228
02-16-2009, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by moqqy:
No, you are getting ridiculous. I thought you'd at the very least understand what I'm getting at.. but, obviously not.

And I say again. The space program proved nothing. As in "you can't be 100% sure!" that you were telling me earlier.

I am sorry if I'm too well informed for your liking, but I'm not going to leave just because you don't like it when someone knows more than you.

And Haddrian.. the assassin's didn't wear black clothes. Or well, some of them did - but it wasn't their uniform or anything. They simply couldn't have had one or they would have been killed upon entering the city or when they're first spotted.

And well.. the assassins DID run away in some cases. The thing is, though, they didn't have the chance to run in most cases as they'd be surrounded by the bodyguards & soldiers. And one assassin, for example, jumped to his death after murdering his target. So they didn't just stand there and wait for death (but again - some of them did - however it wasn't a thing "expected" from them by their master)

The drugging part is complete fiction, so is the "heavenly garden" part. They couldn't have grown a garden at those altitudes, no such garden has been found or any signs of it and they had multiple fortresses so they'd need a lot of gardens down in the hostile areas..

Okay, you're just embarrassing yourself now if you're not 100% sure the earth is round.

We all know there are some flaws with the accuracy of the assassins, but that doesn't mean nothing is right about them! Can't you understand the simple concept that designers got some things right?

And you are blowing this "being 100% sure" thing way out of proportion. Everyone can be 100% sure the earth is round because there is concrete evidence around today. You can't be as sure about the assassins because that all occured almost a thousand years ago and there are multiple ideas and ways of portraying them.

kut_throat_kilr
02-16-2009, 10:52 PM
History can't be 100% accurate, becuase there are many different point of views. And just like when you played the Phrase Game in Elementary School...you begin with a phrase at one end, and what comes out at the is either has variried, or is totally different. Just as much with history. It can get distorted along the way.

But as long as they don't try and portray false or inaccurate history as actuall history. One thing we all have to remember is that fictisous history sales...just look at the Da Vinci Code. But fictisous history starts with a bit of actuall history.

Grandmaster_Z
02-17-2009, 06:50 AM
smokin hash does not make you feel like you died and came back, thats just stupid.

moqqy
02-17-2009, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by bcrreeww228:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moqqy:
No, you are getting ridiculous. I thought you'd at the very least understand what I'm getting at.. but, obviously not.

And I say again. The space program proved nothing. As in "you can't be 100% sure!" that you were telling me earlier.

I am sorry if I'm too well informed for your liking, but I'm not going to leave just because you don't like it when someone knows more than you.

And Haddrian.. the assassin's didn't wear black clothes. Or well, some of them did - but it wasn't their uniform or anything. They simply couldn't have had one or they would have been killed upon entering the city or when they're first spotted.

And well.. the assassins DID run away in some cases. The thing is, though, they didn't have the chance to run in most cases as they'd be surrounded by the bodyguards & soldiers. And one assassin, for example, jumped to his death after murdering his target. So they didn't just stand there and wait for death (but again - some of them did - however it wasn't a thing "expected" from them by their master)

The drugging part is complete fiction, so is the "heavenly garden" part. They couldn't have grown a garden at those altitudes, no such garden has been found or any signs of it and they had multiple fortresses so they'd need a lot of gardens down in the hostile areas..

Okay, you're just embarrassing yourself now if you're not 100% sure the earth is round.

We all know there are some flaws with the accuracy of the assassins, but that doesn't mean nothing is right about them! Can't you understand the simple concept that designers got some things right?

And you are blowing this "being 100% sure" thing way out of proportion. Everyone can be 100% sure the earth is round because there is concrete evidence around today. You can't be as sure about the assassins because that all occured almost a thousand years ago and there are multiple ideas and ways of portraying them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sigh.. you really are a lost case, aren't you. You are embarrassing yourself now if you think you can be 100% sure about anything.

And can't you understand the simple concept that I never claimed they didn't get SOMETHING right? Or when have I claimed such thing?

I won't even bother answering your last paragraph as you have completely missed the point.

kut_throat_kilr
02-17-2009, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Grandmaster_Z:
smokin hash does not make you feel like you died and came back, thats just stupid.

Your right it doesnt...you feel like you do when you take painkillers...it makes you stuck like chuck. Its likely purpose was for religous/occult or some other spirituality reason. But smoking a lot of it will make you fall asleep...and as assumptions have it. When you fall asleep from it, Monks or whomever took you and laid you in a garder of poppi plants and surrounded by women or virgins, so when you awoke you would get a glimps of what heaven was like. Again this is all speculation...and there isnt defenative proof of this.

moqqy
02-18-2009, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by kut_throat_kilr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grandmaster_Z:
smokin hash does not make you feel like you died and came back, thats just stupid.

Your right it doesnt...you feel like you do when you take painkillers...it makes you stuck like chuck. Its likely purpose was for religous/occult or some other spirituality reason. But smoking a lot of it will make you fall asleep...and as assumptions have it. When you fall asleep from it, Monks or whomever took you and laid you in a garder of poppi plants and surrounded by women or virgins, so when you awoke you would get a glimps of what heaven was like. Again this is all speculation...and there isnt defenative proof of this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed there is no proof of it.. but there is almost definitive proof that it is fiction.

bcrreeww228
02-18-2009, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by moqqy:
Sigh.. you really are a lost case, aren't you. You are embarrassing yourself now if you think you can be 100% sure about anything.

And can't you understand the simple concept that I never claimed they didn't get SOMETHING right? Or when have I claimed such thing?

I won't even bother answering your last paragraph as you have completely missed the point.

I am saying you can be 100% sure that you can't be 100% sure the assassins are portrayed completely inaccurately! Clearly you do not have the ability to read and comprehend at the same time.

I never stated that you said they never got something right, I'm pointing it out that they could've. You just respond by degrading my intellect, so what do you think I am going to say back?

moqqy
02-19-2009, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by bcrreeww228:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moqqy:

And can't you understand the simple concept that I never claimed they didn't get SOMETHING right? Or when have I claimed such thing?


I never stated that you said they never got something right, I'm pointing it out that they could've. You just respond by degrading my intellect, so what do you think I am going to say back? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Can't you understand the simple concept that designers got some things right?"

By saying that, you do imply that I have said such thing. If I "can't understand the simple concept", then you must have told me about it, and I must have said "no" or "I don't understand!"

bcrreeww228
02-19-2009, 08:30 PM
No, I'm implying that you are an arrogant know-it-all who thinks everyone else is wrong. I would appreciate it if you would stop misquoting what I say.

You have NEVER said anything about the designers doing anything right with the assassins. You said that they might know more about them than you, but they don't want to offend anyone.

You also say that you can't be 100% sure about anything. That is probably the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. You contradicted yourself by claiming the assassins are completely inaccurate, then saying you can't even be 100% sure about it.

To settle this all: The designers clearly got some things wrong, and they very well could've gotten some things right. Not every historical record can be accurate, so we can be 100% sure that not everything is correct.

However, you said we cannot be 100% sure about anything, even that the earth is round. That is another embarrassingly ignorant statement of yours. There are plenty of things that everyone worldwide can be 100% sure of, but clearly you can't seem to understand that.

moqqy
02-20-2009, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by bcrreeww228:
No, I'm implying that you are an arrogant know-it-all who thinks everyone else is wrong. I would appreciate it if you would stop misquoting what I say.

You have NEVER said anything about the designers doing anything right with the assassins. You said that they might know more about them than you, but they don't want to offend anyone.

You also say that you can't be 100% sure about anything. That is probably the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. You contradicted yourself by claiming the assassins are completely inaccurate, then saying you can't even be 100% sure about it.

To settle this all: The designers clearly got some things wrong, and they very well could've gotten some things right. Not every historical record can be accurate, so we can be 100% sure that not everything is correct.

However, you said we cannot be 100% sure about anything, even that the earth is round. That is another embarrassingly ignorant statement of yours. There are plenty of things that everyone worldwide can be 100% sure of, but clearly you can't seem to understand that.

I think those are wrong who really are wrong.

Indeed, I never talked about them being right. Point being?

They got a few general things right, yes.

Sigh, you're still not getting it? Perhaps, perhaps this will help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogito_ergo_sum

bcrreeww228
02-20-2009, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by moqqy:
I think those are wrong who really are wrong.

Indeed, I never talked about them being right. Point being?

They got a few general things right, yes.

Sigh, you're still not getting it? Perhaps, perhaps this will help you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogito_ergo_sum

I'm not even going to respond to that link because that will just turn into a worse argument about religion and science and philosophy that does not belong on this forum.

Finally you agree that they got part of the assassins right.

moqqy
02-21-2009, 01:48 AM
Of course you're not going to answer to the link. You can't.

And I never disagreed that they didn't get _something_ right.

Grafferu
02-21-2009, 06:29 AM
Originally posted by moqqy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kut_throat_kilr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grandmaster_Z:
smokin hash does not make you feel like you died and came back, thats just stupid.

Your right it doesnt...you feel like you do when you take painkillers...it makes you stuck like chuck. Its likely purpose was for religous/occult or some other spirituality reason. But smoking a lot of it will make you fall asleep...and as assumptions have it. When you fall asleep from it, Monks or whomever took you and laid you in a garder of poppi plants and surrounded by women or virgins, so when you awoke you would get a glimps of what heaven was like. Again this is all speculation...and there isnt defenative proof of this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed there is no proof of it.. but there is almost definitive proof that it is fiction. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd like to see that proof if u don't mind

moqqy
02-21-2009, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by Grafferu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moqqy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kut_throat_kilr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grandmaster_Z:
smokin hash does not make you feel like you died and came back, thats just stupid.

Your right it doesnt...you feel like you do when you take painkillers...it makes you stuck like chuck. Its likely purpose was for religous/occult or some other spirituality reason. But smoking a lot of it will make you fall asleep...and as assumptions have it. When you fall asleep from it, Monks or whomever took you and laid you in a garder of poppi plants and surrounded by women or virgins, so when you awoke you would get a glimps of what heaven was like. Again this is all speculation...and there isnt defenative proof of this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed there is no proof of it.. but there is almost definitive proof that it is fiction. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd like to see that proof if u don't mind </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

First and foremost: who said they had gardens? If you claim they had gardens, provide a source.

Now, I can tell you who said that. Marco Polo. The man who never made a half of the trip he claimed he made and had stupid myths all over his book. He also visited (or so he says) their fortress hundreds years after the assassins were gone.

Second, the altitude. There is no way they would have grown a lush garden in those altitudes.

Third, the size of Alamut. It had a huge library already, and it wasn't big to begin with. There simply would be no space for such garden, ESPECIALLY if it had to be hid from the assassins (as the myth says).

Fourth, they'd need to have gardens in almost every fortress as travel between them was nigh impossible - and yet there is no proof that any had such "secret garden". Not to mention the things said before..

Fifth, the Nizari already believed they're in a heaven of sorts. No need to show them a second one.

Sixth, there is an incredible risk that such garden would be found by the Nizaris themselves - then, not only would they realize everything is a lie, they'd also rebel. That is, if they actually believed in such thing.

Seventh, William of Tyre, the most notable crusader chronicler spent a lot of time at the Syrian state of the Nizari and spoke with a deep understanding of their beliefs and practices, yet no mention was ever made of drugs or secret gardens.

For starters.

bcrreeww228
02-21-2009, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by moqqy:
Of course you're not going to answer to the link. You can't.

And I never disagreed that they didn't get _something_ right.

That link doesn't prove anything I said wrong, it just shows that you believe in some crazy theory.

I won't respond because I am not going to get into an argument about religion, science, or philosophy. This forum is about the history of the game.

All your links of "proof" do not confirm anything either way, they support what I said about not being able to be 100% sure about everything that happened 1000 years ago.

The "proof" you try to give is from a bunch of unqualified morons who have some crazy unwarranted theory that they want to get publicity in order to cause unrest. I think it's pretty comical that you believe everything you read on the internet. A true source is a history book or a useful artifact from that time period, not a bunch of made-up articles on the internet.

P.S. Anyone who thinks the earth is flat (a.k.a. you) needs to take some time to get their facts straight. If you honestly think it is flat, which you have hinted at, nobody is going to believe anything else you have to say. All you are doing on these forums is stirring up controversy. You should try a little harder to get reputable information.

moqqy
02-21-2009, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by bcrreeww228:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moqqy:
Of course you're not going to answer to the link. You can't.

And I never disagreed that they didn't get _something_ right.

That link doesn't prove anything I said wrong, it just shows that you believe in some crazy theory.

I won't respond because I am not going to get into an argument about religion, science, or philosophy. This forum is about the history of the game.

All your links of "proof" do not confirm anything either way, they support what I said about not being able to be 100% sure about everything that happened 1000 years ago.

The "proof" you try to give is from a bunch of unqualified morons who have some crazy unwarranted theory that they want to get publicity in order to cause unrest. I think it's pretty comical that you believe everything you read on the internet. A true source is a history book or a useful artifact from that time period, not a bunch of made-up articles on the internet.

P.S. Anyone who thinks the earth is flat (a.k.a. you) needs to take some time to get their facts straight. If you honestly think it is flat, which you have hinted at, nobody is going to believe anything else you have to say. All you are doing on these forums is stirring up controversy. You should try a little harder to get reputable information. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

........................

..........................

Good God. If you are not able to understand what "Cogito Ergo Sum" means.. just say so. Don't write a lot of BS about how it's a crazy theory because anyone above the level of a five year old understands it's true. There's absolutely nothing arguable about it.

I think it's quite comical that you have no idea what you're talking about and yet you behave like you do. Disprove my sources and then you can talk.

You can go here http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/ and tell them your smart thoughts. They'll laugh in your face and disprove anything you say. "B-b-but my mama said the Earth is round!"

And on top of that all, you clearly have some serious problems comprehending what you read. I have never claimed the Earth is flat.

And you should be quiet about "what I'm doing on these forums" as you joined a month ago.

Now, if you want another answer from me, you have to read carefully what I have said and perhaps ask your friends for advice if you are unable to comprehend what I mean. You should also read the link again, this time with thought. And you should come up with something on-topic.

bcrreeww228
02-22-2009, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by moqqy:
........................

..........................

Good God. If you are not able to understand what "Cogito Ergo Sum" means.. just say so. Don't write a lot of BS about how it's a crazy theory because anyone above the level of a five year old understands it's true. There's absolutely nothing arguable about it.

I think it's quite comical that you have no idea what you're talking about and yet you behave like you do. Disprove my sources and then you can talk.

You can go here http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/ and tell them your smart thoughts. They'll laugh in your face and disprove anything you say. "B-b-but my mama said the Earth is round!"

And on top of that all, you clearly have some serious problems comprehending what you read. I have never claimed the Earth is flat.

And you should be quiet about "what I'm doing on these forums" as you joined a month ago.

Now, if you want another answer from me, you have to read carefully what I have said and perhaps ask your friends for advice if you are unable to comprehend what I mean. You should also read the link again, this time with thought. And you should come up with something on-topic.

Because you've been on the forums longer you should know better what is supposed to be discussed on them. Arguing about religious and philosophical beliefs will not solve anything, nor is it appropriate to discuss on these forums.

Cogito Ergo Sum is completely pointless. I already know I exist thanks for sharing though.

And I could care less if the flat earth society laughs in my face because they are sadly mistaken. It's pretty funny that after this world's history they are too stubborn to believe anyone but themselves.

Now back to the real point. Pretty much the only thing wrong with the assassins in AC is that they wear the same white cloaks all the time, making them a little obvious. And the fact that you cannot participate in religious ceremonies in the game.

And one more thing, I'd like you to prove somehow the fact that "Marco Polo did not make half the trip he said he did."

Grandmaster_Z
02-23-2009, 06:27 AM
that website is funny

GivenWings
02-27-2009, 06:54 PM
I love the fact that the game is based on actual historical events rather than just some randomly created fiction.