PDA

View Full Version : UBI your support for this sim is the BEST!



XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 06:36 PM
.................................can't think of any other sim having so much updates including everything from updated FM's to new PLANES and MAPS,and all for FREE!!!

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 06:36 PM
.................................can't think of any other sim having so much updates including everything from updated FM's to new PLANES and MAPS,and all for FREE!!!

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 06:44 PM
I'd have to agree.

I know there will be a legion of flames claiming this should have all been included in the game to begin with, etc, etc but to benchmark against other sims (whether Microprose (RIP), Microsoft, EA), no one has done as much extra as for this game.

Of course it makes good business sense, but still, it is nice to have the updates, addons, etc.

http://palpatine.chez.tiscali.fr/Dilbert/Fist-Of-Death.gif


ALICE FOR MODERATOR!

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 06:49 PM
Can't agree moore!

Others get something fair together and thats it! This games evolves, and all users contribute. Linux comes to mind...

Go UBI and most of us will patietley wait for the official 1,2 release, we have all been kids waiting for something, x-mas for us who notice that, birthdays and so on.

Belzeebub

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 06:53 PM
I believe it is a team effort between Oleg/1c, and Ubi. I read post in the past that was right opposite in kudos for Ubi. But I to appreiciate them also. Thanks S!

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 08:17 PM
After fully completing all the missions in IL-2, I've come to several conclusions:

***The sim absolutely surpasses any other sim in FM and graphics.***

HOWEVER...

The AI is absolutely TERRIBLE. It seems that the gaming industry has not gotten a grasp of what AI means to the player. AI does not mean:

1)max energy maneuvering in flight sims.

2)A* algorithms or any other search algorithms.

3)any other mathematical construct that does not take into account human behaviour.

AI means:

-when playing the game, the player should not notice any significant difference from a virtual or real opponent.

-that means (with respect to peculiarities of the game):

1)virtual pilots do NOT have ESP and defensively break/roll whenever your targeting reticule is being pointed at them. I'm sure all of you IL-2 players noticed this one.

2)virtual pilots don't always counter YOUR moves when chased by 2 friendlies.

3) do virtual pilots ever stall their aircraft?

4) why do virtual aircraft have super engines that can climb faster and turn sharper than you?

5) why is it that my aircarft's performance is diminished for no apparent reason (especially for the Germans?), i.e.; violently stalling in one mission (over 300 kph too)
and never stalling in the next?

6) virtual pilots do NOT instinctively know your energy state, so their defensive maneuvers cannot EFFECTIVELY counter your maneuvers at ALL times.

7) virtual pilots cannot hear your aircraft sneaking up underneath them after you cut your engines... (one-on-one scenario)

8) what is with the shooting accuracy of tanks and bombers? and the flak gunners seem to know my altitude and speed at all times? Ridiculous. I had bombers clip me with rounds as I was spiralling around their fuselage at at least 400 knots and 500m distance. Absolutely impossible shot, but hey, if your AI calculates trajectories based on known point speed vectors, of course you'll get hit everytime!

9) when repeating a level over 10 times because of lousy AI, the game is not fun (nor realistic).

-this is definitely a half-and-half game: meaning half sim half arcade game.


Oleg,

I hope FB is better than this AI tripe. Excellent FM and graphics though, just the AI needs work.

Some suggestions:

1)Situational awareness of players is diminished with the camera view changes required for dogfighting, the AI should also have this handicap.

2)Eliminate the defensive breaks during reticule aiming. This is so obvious it's laughable.

3)Maybe the FM player = FM virtual player?

4)Accuracy of enemy shots should better reflect reality. Especially tanks (I've seen them search for air targets and some turn, target and fire faster than would be expected from a massive vehickle like that!)

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 08:24 PM
learn to fly

<marquee>Fighting Irish: Death from the pub</marquee>

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 08:26 PM
ymichaelm,

Feel free to create a better game for us all.

As for the comments about Ubi: Pure Bull!



<font face="Courier New">

_____ | _____
_\__(o)__/_
./ \.

</font>

Hawgdog
11-10-2003, 08:30 PM
yeah, what he said.
And I thought Janes would be the last great sim

<center></script>When your computer goes to hell, tell 'em HawgDog sent it!
http://users.zoominternet.net/~cgatewood/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

There are no stupid questions,
but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 08:34 PM
Give me the code for this game and I will...

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 08:35 PM
ymichaelm wrote:
- AI means:
-
--when playing the game, the player should not notice any significant difference from a virtual or real opponent.

When you write a flightsim AI module that can pass a Turing test, you be sure and let us know. I will agree that the AI could use some adjustments, but let's try to stay within the realm of possibility.


---
There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who can count in binary, and those who can't.
(If I knew who said that first, I'd give credit here.)

HL callsign: FruitPieJones, and why not?

Zayets
11-10-2003, 08:49 PM
Don't make me laugh!UBI jumped in just because Oleg released the beta,otherwise ...
But hey! All big companies are like that,why would you expect more from UBI,eh?
A huge,big,enormous thank you for Oleg&team!!!

Zayets out

http://www.arr.go.ro/iar81c.JPG

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 09:00 PM
Turing test is not what I had in mind. Anyway, the Turing test is not what is described here. Different context.

I'm looking for some reasonable changes that will make this game more beleivable, and playable.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 09:02 PM
I agree with the subject line.

I don't know of another game that has a forum sponsored by the distrubutor AND has the game ceator participating.

http://sjlundin.home.mchsi.com/vargasAvatar.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 09:10 PM
i avoid the AI by flying online only. i will try to avoid playing an AI player from any game if i have the chance to play against a human. has there ever been AI in any game that would meet your standard? i too, have that standard and i think coding in games just isn't there yet.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 09:13 PM
Absolutely.

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 10:06 PM
Hats off for Oleg&Co! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

S!

M0NS (authorized P39 pyrotechnician)



"Blow up the outside world"

http://www.flugwerk.de/images/01k.jpg
My garage!

XyZspineZyX
11-10-2003, 10:26 PM
ymichaelm:

Some friendly advice for you:

I suggest you stop embarassing yourself, do not Pass GO, do Not collect $200, and return Directly back under your bridge, trollboy...

...and take your totally irrelevant ramblings with you.

..your ramblings about a product(IL2) released TWO years ago, and updated with many patches/add-ons...and supplanted by Forgotten Battles NINE months ago, and with add-ons/patches given/forthcoming imminently..

Whre have you been for two years, hiding under a bridge somewhere?? Ohh..Exactly! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Golly, you must be awfully red-faced with embarrassment. Unbelievable...



Message Edited on 11/10/0301:35PM by OberstWiley

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 01:00 AM
You must be an American.

Critiquing past work is just as relevant as critiquing current work. Since I've played IL2 with the most recent patch v1.2 (and no I haven't played FB yet... YET being the operative word and YES it's still subject to criticism even if it's 1000 months old), the AI still is questionable in terms of pilot behaviour.

I would suggest that you interview actual WW2 or modern day fighter pilots to obtain some frame of reference as to how THEY would behave on combat, otherwise your comments do not have any weight with me.

Embarassing, isn't it?

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 01:23 AM
S!
Give it a rest will you.

Flawed AI and all, this is still the BEST flight sim out right now and the support we get from Oleg and Co is fantastic.





Obltn. Karl "vP"von Pletz
Staffel 5
Red 7
II./JG1 "Oesau"

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 01:39 AM
ymichaelm, are you crazy??

You are complaining vehemently about a sim which has been updated and improved. The AI is much better, now they make mistakes and stall out or spin down, etc.

Of course you won`t get AI on a par with Human Beings you really are showing yourself up if you expect that.

The basics of it is GET FB.

You also said:

"and YES it's still subject to criticism even if it's 1000 months old), the AI still is questionable in terms of pilot behaviour."!!!



From your reasoning you`re full in your right to complain about a Model T Ford compared to a Lambougini or Wrights Brothers plane compared to an F16! What`s the point of complaining? It doesn`t make logical sense.

Get a grip, man. If you are old enough to be one.

(p.s I`m English, though if I were American it should make no difference to the argument).



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).


Message Edited on 11/11/0312:41AM by SeaFireLIV

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 01:51 AM
Did I not sya that inmy first comment? Or do you have a short memory?

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 01:54 AM
I'll try FB and I'll get back to you...

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 01:58 AM
ymichaelm wrote:
- Give me the code for this game and I will...

Ya right. If you're so hot you wouldn't need the existing code, you'd implement your design from the ground up...

As for the original point of the thread...Hats off to Oleg & Team for the continued patches, additions, and improvements to FB!

Dennis

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 02:19 AM
"--when playing the game, the player should not notice any significant difference from a virtual or real opponent."

Wasn't it uber-AI that destroyed the world in Terminator?

What, do you want Skynet to take over and kill us all?

http://palpatine.chez.tiscali.fr/Dilbert/Fist-Of-Death.gif


ALICE FOR MODERATOR!

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 02:44 AM
ymichaelm wrote:
- I'll try FB and I'll get back to you...
-
-

Not sure we want to hear from you truthfully.

Your slamming AI. Can you code better? AI that even approaches the intellegence of the stupidest human on earth is still far from forthcoming. Given that, even with the quirks, I find this sim to have remarkably intellegent AI (most of the time). As stated in an earlier post, it could stand some tweaking, but until I can code it I'll deal with what I've been given, which is quite a lot.

And since you haven't got FB yet you probably haven't played much online as there are few left who play IL-2 Sturmovick. Fly against a human and see just how impressive this sim can be.

It's OK to critique the sim, but to bombast the entire game based on your unrealistic (IMHO) AI expectations shows a lack of understanding of the platform you are playing on.

**Vanna, I'd like to buy a clue please**

<center>Beebop-ProudBirds-VFW<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/230903-Beebop%20Sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 03:44 AM
ymichaelm wrote:
- Give me the code for this game and I will...

Dennis wrote:
"Ya right. If you're so hot you wouldn't need the existing -code, you'd implement your design from the ground up...

-As for the original point of the thread...Hats off to Oleg -& Team for the continued patches, additions, and improvements to FB!

Dennis"

Exactly. Code a better combat sim from scratch and you'll have the right to make an intelligent comparison. In the world of combat sims, Oleg and Team are a phenomenon. I just hope they're not a passing phenomenon because there don't seem to be any others out there creating sims with such attention to the fine details.

OC

"You don't have the killer instinct" - wife's comment after watching me in virtual combat.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 06:28 AM
WTH does American have to do with anything?!
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG


<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center> <center> www.361stvfg.com</center> (http://www.361stvfg.com</center>)
<center>
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1003.jpg

</center>

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 12:22 PM
TNX 1C for this GREAT sim /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

###################
#
# the best ever!!!
#
###################
about the AI ... we have to slow computers to make AI more
human alike .... the AI has simplified FM and is sort of scripted .

Oleg and team can surely make AI more belivable but then you want be able to play it on todays computers.


K.

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 02:03 PM
Although the thread has been kinda hijacked by Trolls...

I agree with the original posters sentiment.

I paid 35 in February and am still getting FREE updates today.
Who could ask for more?

BTW Most of the whining-trolls (you know who you are) probably didn't even BUY the game! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

S! Simon.
<center>

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_essential_files.htm).

http://extremeone.4t.com/images/ex1_soon.jpg
<font color="#000000">It's my attitude not my aptitude that determines my altitude.</font></center>

Zayets
11-11-2003, 02:07 PM
My passport photo:

http://www.timewarp-toys.com/troll.jpg


Zayets out

http://www.arr.go.ro/iar81c.JPG

XyZspineZyX
11-11-2003, 02:15 PM
I think Oleg Maddox should hire Maddox to do a piece on the whiners......


http://maddox.xmission.com/


It would be a fun read, don't ya think /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif




"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall