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shc89
10-11-2008, 01:55 PM
I'm having a problem with Yak-7 at low speeds. When I go on final approach and lower my speed at about 200kph the plane starts to roll to the left. The only way is to balance it with the stick our counter it with heavy right trim on the rudder. Is it totally normal or something is wrong ?

Sun_Ra
10-11-2008, 02:11 PM
Rudder comes in handy here.

M_Gunz
10-11-2008, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by shc89:
I'm having a problem with Yak-7 at low speeds. When I go on final approach and lower my speed at about 200kph the plane starts to roll to the left and I can't neutralise it since it has no trim. The only way is to balance it with the stick. Is it totally normal or something is wrong ?

It's a real bad idea to use side-stick movement then. Real bad.
The wing you're trying to lift produces extra drag, the one going up produces less, the nose
turns and you are in slip and already "at high AOA" holding level at the edge of stall.

In some older sims this doesn't matter at all, the difference in wing drag during roll is not
modeled. In IL2 it is.

Like Sun-Ra says, use rudder.

Rudder away from the wing that starts to drop and be ready to reverse rudder just in case.
Keep the wings level, you will drop straight when you stall. Don't wait for The Ball when you
do this, use the wings and the horizon only and be ready to dance. How slow can you go?

K_Freddie
10-11-2008, 03:03 PM
Don't try fancy 3 point landings yet... Approach like a tank at ~250kph, level out at 5-10m alt, 50m from the runway, then reduce speed gradually. You should touch down at about 200kph = no yaw problems. As your wheels roll, pull in flaps - you'll be down safely in a jiffy..
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b2spirita
10-11-2008, 03:11 PM
@ Freddie - i still land like that now!!

@ The OP, i learned the hard way not to use the stick when landing or taking off, unless you really need to. Take off from a carrier to see what i mean.

shc89
10-11-2008, 04:00 PM
Thanks for help. As a trainer plane Yak-7 should be very easy to control, but for me it's much harder to control than most other planes. What else happened to me before is that I have chosen a plane(I don't remember which one) and it was moving to the left so hard that it was unflyable, even I turned the trim to the right completely, or applied full rudder to the opposite direction it would still go to the left. I never understood what could be the problem. Everyone else says Yak-7 is very easy to land, but to me its one of the hardest planes to land it's not easy to control at all, so I'm starting to doubt that something else is wrong, except my amateur flying. Is it possible ?

shc89
10-11-2008, 04:02 PM
What also happened to me before, that isn't related to flying the planes, is that there was no way to assign commands to certain plane function, for example the wheel brakes. Then I reinstalled the game and it was working. I wonder if it's possible that something is not completely with my game...

VW-IceFire
10-11-2008, 04:34 PM
Post a track...lets have a look.

At 200kph you should be doing fine so long as you still have some power on the engine (about 40% ish) and flaps down in the landing configuration.

shc89
10-11-2008, 05:03 PM
I'll post the track tomorrow.

shc89
10-12-2008, 09:36 AM
What I found is that the throttle is the problem, not the airspeed. If I'm going 400kph on 80 throttle and I trim my plane so that it goes straight, if I reduce the throttle under 50% or so that plane starts going to the left.

The problem which I mentioned before where the planes steer to one side even if you fully trim to the opposite direction happens with F2,F4,Corsair,F6 and maybe some other planes.

I recorded the tracks, but I don't know how to post them ?

_VR_ScorpionWorm
10-12-2008, 09:43 AM
Havent played the game in a while but Im gonna go on a whim, full trim to opposite side and still floats in one direction.... Do you use rudder pedals or a stick with a swivel rudder action? I used to have that same problem when I used my CH pedals for over a year, the mechanism inside would start reading awkward and rudder one way when the pedals were straight. Many aircraft have torque to pull to one side but i've never had to go full trim to keep it straight.

mortoma
10-12-2008, 09:57 AM
210 t0 220 is a better approach speed for Yak-7, let her sink to 190-200 only when you are with your wheels about to touch down. The Yaks were modeled with more torque than most other inline engined planes by Oleg. A 109 has very little torque compared to Yaks.

GIAP.Shura
10-12-2008, 10:05 AM
If you need to use full rudder to correct an aircraft going at 200kph, then it sounds to me like you have an input problem somewhere, either in your joystick or IL-2 settings.

shc89
10-12-2008, 11:12 AM
I'm using the joystick with rudder twist. Yeah I know about the torque but this it too much. Even if you fully trim it, it still won't go straight.

''The Yaks were modeled with more torque than most other inline engined planes by Oleg.''

Wouldn't it have more sense if the plane went more to the side when increasing the throttle instead on cutting it. The plane starts going to the left only when I lower the throttle. I would accept it as normal thing, if I hadn't seen the other problem with F-4s and some other fighters which I mentioned before.

''If you need to use full rudder to correct an aircraft going at 200kph, then it sounds to me like you have an input problem somewhere, either in your joystick or IL-2 settings.''

Some of the other planes fly pretty well, and in other sims I have no problems with the joystick. So I'm positive it's not the stick.

K_Freddie
10-12-2008, 02:53 PM
Maybe not so much more torque, but power to weight ratio of the a/c. Are not the Yaks lighter aircraft, thus torque is more noticable.

Torque works both ways, throttling up or down. The amount of torque depends on how fast you move the throttle lever.
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shc89
10-13-2008, 08:02 AM
Thanks. I understand that there is torque issue but I think this is too much. Altough I don't understand how it could it be, that the game is working totally good but the plane behavior is not good...

GIAP.Shura
10-13-2008, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by shc89:
''The Yaks were modeled with more torque than most other inline engined planes by Oleg.''

Wouldn't it have more sense if the plane went more to the side when increasing the throttle instead on cutting it. The plane starts going to the left only when I lower the throttle.

The planes are often setup for cruise settings with no trim. Deviating from these settings (either up or down) will require compensation, "manually" or through trim if available.

I can't say that I remember the Yak-7 as being particularly problematic but I'll refresh my memory later today.

VW-IceFire
10-13-2008, 08:25 AM
Tried landing one...not a big deal. Controls are effective at 180 kph...but I like to make landings in a Yak with some power still on...some planes will coast in but the Yak will slow up pretty quickly and then wing drop if you're not careful.

I did it with a battle damaged Yak-7B as well...that was a bit rougher shall we say but it had more to do with the shot up wing and tail section.

shc89
10-13-2008, 03:57 PM
What everyone says is that the Yak-7 is easy to land, that's what confuses. Can anyone pm me their e-mail so I send you the two tracks for a quick check ?

shc89
10-14-2008, 03:24 PM
I've bought a new copy of the game, reinstalled the game and there are no more problems with F's and the Yak's tendency to go left is lower. So to balance a plane, its better to use the rudder than the aileron?

VW-IceFire
10-14-2008, 08:31 PM
If your landing your better off using the rudder. Using the aileron is going to cause more drag on the wings because of the control use so its more apt to make one of the wings stall with the other one still providing a meager amount of lift.

WTE_Galway
10-14-2008, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
If your landing your better off using the rudder. Using the aileron is going to cause more drag on the wings because of the control use so its more apt to make one of the wings stall with the other one still providing a meager amount of lift.

+1

This is especially important if a wing drops at slow speed. This occurs because one wing has stalled while the other wing is "still flying" providing lift, which means you have lift on the good side and not the stalled side resulting in the plane "tipping over".

The natural reaction is to correct with stick but that is very WRONG. Using stick will make the stall problem on the bad wing even worse.

Always correct a dropping wing at low speed with opposite rudder.

Its also a good idea to get into the habit of closing the radiator at low speed as many planes in game handle like a dog when slow with radiator open (the Lagg is particularly bad).

shc89
10-15-2008, 05:27 PM
Understood, thanks.