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Noxx0s
03-03-2010, 11:01 PM
Is there anywhere I can find this info for IL-2 planes?

I didn't see it in Hardball aircraft viewer or IL-2 compare...

EDIT: Also... stall speed?

koivis
03-04-2010, 02:34 AM
Ask Gaston444 about stall speeds of Fw 190A and Bf 109G, he surely knows all about them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

thefruitbat
03-04-2010, 03:54 AM
Originally posted by koivis:
Ask Gaston444 about stall speeds of Fw 190A and Bf 109G, he surely knows all about them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

please god not another thread done that line....

Insuber
03-04-2010, 06:39 AM
Good question, but do we have historical acceleration rates, or can we calculate them with some degree of reliability ?

I'm always deceived by the poor acceleration of certain planes, which I will not mention in order to avoid the usual holy war.

Regards,
Insuber

Jumoschwanz
03-04-2010, 08:25 AM
I have tested acceleration rates for the aircraft in IL2 for years as I thought it would help me know what my aircraft could do vs. other aircraft. Years ago I made a standard testing map in the full-mission-builder that you can download here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ji5tj2zzoz3

The map consists of a concrete base on one of the old dogfight maps, with two large buildings set off the end of the runway at a distance equal to the length of the runway.

The testing procedure is as follows:

1.Change the aircraft on the map to the type you want to test.

2. Hit "play" and get into the aircraft, start it's engine, hold on the brakes, activate any WEP it may have and go to full throttle.

3. When max power and rpm is reached release the brakes and travel down the runways as straight as you can.

4.When you reach 180km/hr gently lift off the runway and raise the gear.

5. Stay as low to the deck as possible, stay straight and aim for the end of the runway, if you are good enough and have time proceed with any trimming you want to.

6. When your aircraft gets directly over the end of the runway hit "P" to freeze the aircraft there. Go to outside view and if you are a bit short you can momentarily "unpause" and then pause again to get the aircraft right over the end of the concrete.

7. Record the speed of the aircraft on a piece of paper under a column marked "Low speed Acc."

8. Get back into the aircraft and "un-pause" it and keep flying straight ahead aiming to go between the two large buildings. When you reach a point directly between the buildings hit Pause again and freeze and adjust the aircraft from outside view so it is directly even with the two buildings.

9. The speed at this point is the "High speed Acc..

You will note that some aircraft will gain speed more quickly at low speed, but gain less speed the faster they go, others are the opposite, being initially slow accelerating, but then coming on like gangbusters at high speed. All useful data.

Results from some common aircraft in patch 4.09:

Low Acc. High Acc.

190A6 333km/hr 421km/hr

109g6a/s 378 456

tempest 362 450

spit944' 366 438

dora9 373 454

Notice that the Spit9 is a bit better than the Tempest up to the 360 range, but then falls behind at high speed.

So, if you note the low and high speed acceleration of your aircraft vs. those in the plane-set you are flying against, you can come up with ideas on some tactics to use that might be successful against them.

Insuber
03-04-2010, 08:45 AM
Great job jumoschwanz.

Your results confirm my impressions about the 190, that has the lowest acceleration of the lot (aaaah now I can say it!).

Insuber

Jumoschwanz
03-04-2010, 10:43 AM
Yes, every aircraft has a weak spot, and the FW190A has that one, but it makes up for it in other areas I think.

Check out my links to tracks and videos of FW190 flying in IcyScythe's other thread about rolling and scissoring for more information on fW190 flying.

When I was younger, I used to test the acceleration and top speed of every aircraft in the sim every time a new patch was put out, but this is exhausting and time consuming, so these days I may just test the aircraft I happen to be flying, and flying against at the time.

It certainly is handy information and you can uncover interesting things. Besides top speeds and acceleration, an Ace should also know the rolling rate and elevator authority AT Different Speeds of the different aircraft involved.

Putting the time in to know the aircraft is just one more piece of the puzzle.....

Noxx0s
03-04-2010, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
Yes, every aircraft has a weak spot, and the FW190A has that one, but it makes up for it in other areas I think.

Check out my links to tracks and videos of FW190 flying in IcyScythe's other thread about rolling and scissoring for more information on fW190 flying.

When I was younger, I used to test the acceleration and top speed of every aircraft in the sim every time a new patch was put out, but this is exhausting and time consuming, so these days I may just test the aircraft I happen to be flying, and flying against at the time.

It certainly is handy information and you can uncover interesting things. Besides top speeds and acceleration, an Ace should also know the rolling rate and elevator authority AT Different Speeds of the different aircraft involved.

Putting the time in to know the aircraft is just one more piece of the puzzle.....

Good stuff thanks. What do you mean "elevator authority"? Also for low/high you're talking about acceleration at low and high speed right? Not altitude? Does altitude affect acceleration rates?

This is a separate question but I might as well throw it in here... should I be trimming elevator all the way up when in a sharp turn?

And finally (lots of question lol), do flaps increase or decrease the energy loss rate of a fighter in a turn... i.e. if I don't have to make a super sharp turn and can make it without flaps, would I still be better off putting them on or not if I want to maintain energy and not bleed it off?

Jumoschwanz
03-04-2010, 03:42 PM
Elevator authority. Some aircraft will not respond to the elevator well at high speed, like later bf109s and P-39s.

Right, I am talking about speed when I say High and low.

The only thing I use trim for is so I don't have to hold pressure on the stick to travel at a certain speed, it is a comfort thing for me, period.

You don't want to use the flaps in combat unless you have to because yes, you will lose speed when they are deployed. Usually you never have to use them unless you are at lower speeds, but it is a bit different for each aircraft.

M_Gunz
03-04-2010, 11:46 PM
Get the nose down a bit or at least don't let the plane climb even a little when trying to accelerate.
A little trim is very good for this as you will gain speed anyway and change in speed (and/or engine
and prop settings) should be accompanied by change in trim.

As you increase speed even minutely the plane wants to rise and that nerfs your acceleration even
before you see much change in VSI or altitude gauge. It is better to lose 10m height (more is better)
than to gain 1.

Same goes for turns. Nose high level turns especially with cross-controls (stick on diagonal) are bad
to say the least. First part of the turn in a shallow dive and then shallow climb works much better,
you can even accelerate in such a turn if you do not start at high speed.

Don't just crank the trim for a turn but do consider that if you're going to be coming out of the turn
with much different speed that you can trim during the turn or you can catch up on trim later. Which
is going to better keep your speed?

Bud Anderson during combat:

Things are happening too fast to think everything out. You steer with your right hand and feet. The right hand also triggers the guns. With your left, you work the throttle, and keep the airplane in trim, which is easier to do than describe.
<snip>

There were three little palm-sized wheels you had to keep fiddling with. They trimmed you up for hands-off level flight. One was for the little trim tab on the tail's rudder, the vertical slab which moves the plane left or right. Another adjusted the tab on the tail's horizontal elevators that raise or lower the nose and help reduce the force you had to apply for hard turning. The third was for aileron trim, to keep your wings level, although you didn't have to fuss much with that one. Your left hand was down there a lot if you were changing speeds, as in combat . . .