PDA

View Full Version : How to fly...



ChasARGH
11-13-2004, 07:23 AM
Since there seems to be absolutely no guides on how to fly in this sim, I'm going to ask here. How do I turn? I can shoot down bombers with ease, but if I try to dogfight other fighters, I'm always out turned, no matter how ****ty the opponents aircraft is, even at the lowest AI level. If I try to turn, the aircraft stalls and goes into a spin. The only way to avoid this is to turn very very gently, but then I'll get shot down immediately, as the opponent out turns me. So, is it really not possible to turn effectively in an aircraft, or am I missing something? I really don't want to turn all the realism settings off in order to play.. that takes away all the fun.

EURO_Snoopy
11-13-2004, 07:33 AM
Hmmm, no guides? The manual has several pages on tactics etc and there is a thread for newcomers at the top of this forum.

Tully__
11-13-2004, 07:46 AM
Joystick settings play a part, click on the "Joysticks & FB" link under my signature picture and have a read.

ChasARGH
11-13-2004, 08:00 AM
Snoopy: I'm not looking for tactics. I'm trying to figure out how to control the plane. The newcomers thread did nothing for me.

Tully: The rudder might be the problem. There's nothing on my joystick to allow rudder control, and controlling the rudder on the keyboard is too much of a hassle.

Tully__
11-13-2004, 08:05 AM
Although rudder is a big help, except on takeoff & landing it's not essential. Give the article a read and when budget allows get yourself a 4 axis joystick.

Meantime, we all went through what you're going through when we first started (though not necessarily in this sim, some of us are old). Practice (& lots of it) will improve your performance. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bearcat99
11-13-2004, 08:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
Although rudder is a big help, except on takeoff & landing it's not essential. Give the article a read and when budget allows get yourself a 4 axis joystick.

Meantime, we all went through what you're going through when we first started (though not necessarily in this sim, some of us are __old__). Practice (& lots of it) will improve your performance. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I agree with 90% of what you said Tully but IMO rudder is important and flying without it for me anyway is asking for a quick death. Chas......also you might want to deploy a bit of combat flaps at the beginning of a turn. This sim is not easy to master. I have been flying in the series for going on 4 years now and I still have moments. You will just have to practice. If you ate having some of the problems you are having and you read the newcomers thread maybe you should read it again.

ChasARGH
11-13-2004, 08:57 AM
Bearcat: I've played flight sims since the ancient Red Baron and Tornado in the early 90s and up til Combat Flight Sim 2. Then I had a three year break, and here I am with my first joystick, and an impossible flight sim. I'm just not getting it. I'm guessing the old flight sims I played were all extremely unrealistic even at the hardest setting, since I had no trouble mastering them, even without a joystick. But when I can't shoot down an old russian double decker with a rookie AI in a FW190 D9 in this game, I have absolutely no idea what's going on. Are there any threads or web pages that detail how to actually fly these planes? I can't seem to find any guides on this forum.
I've been using combat flaps for quick turns and climbs, as well as rudder, which I managed to map acceptably on my joystick after all. But I end up zooming past the enemy if I somehow manage to line up behind him, even at close to stalling speed.

willyvic
11-13-2004, 09:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:


I agree with 90% of what you said Tully but IMO rudder is important and flying without it for me anyway is asking for a quick death... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

However, it is not "essential" for this game. I believe that was the point. It sounds as if he is having a bit of joystick setup problems...too sensitive or too hamfisted.

Keep with it ChasARGH. Being a simmer yourself, you will get the hang of it bro. Check out some of the joystick settings as suggested and keep at it. Cya in the virtual skies.

WV.

FI_Willie
11-13-2004, 10:06 AM
There is some specific information here for flying several types of planes.. http://www.il2flying.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/

And I suggest checking the J/S settings "in the game". If your setting are 100% all the way across, then the plane will be pretty much unflyable. My rudder controls always default to 100% at install, makes a pretty rude plane until I remember to change the settings.

ChasARGH
11-13-2004, 10:35 AM
Thanks for the help everyone. I seldom come across a gaming community where people actually try to help.
Hopefully I'll be able to finish a dogfight without smashing into the ground by the end of the day.

carguy_
11-13-2004, 10:39 AM
On Fogotten Battles disk there`s a PDF manual for such users.

blairgowrie
11-13-2004, 10:58 AM
Chas. I had exactly the same kind of problems a year ago and I am a licensed pilot! I thought there was something wrong with the game. Then I fell in with a bunch of Seattle guys who invited me to fly with them one night a week. At first I crashed almost every time on take off, or if I did get off the ground, I would spin and burn. None of our group put any pressure on me and helped where they could. Slowly but surely I started to get the handle of the game (golf is harder IMHO). Now I never crash on take-off and last week had 5 good carrier landings in a row.I am not a great pilot yet but at least I am heading in the right direction. Just takes practice, practice and, even more practice. Try to get in with a good bunch of guys. Our group is informal and we have all become good friends. Or you can join a more formal group.

Stick with it buddy. It is really worth it. I don't think you will find the answers you seek in a manual.

Simjock
11-13-2004, 12:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ChasARGH:
Thanks for the help everyone. I seldom come across a gaming community where people actually try to help.
Hopefully I'll be able to finish a dogfight without smashing into the ground by the end of the day. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was die hard CFS with no intention of changing to IL2. First time I tried IL2 I veered off the runway and crached into the control tower. I swore I would never play IL2 again and foolishly proclaimed IL2 a losers game.

My freinds in the community had to drag me kicking and screeming into IL2.

Now I look back and wonder what I was thinking. 1c.Maddox games has given us the best flight sim ever. It's worth the effort to learn and you'll make some good freinds on the way. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FI_Willie
11-13-2004, 01:01 PM
blairgowrie wrote
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I had exactly the same kind of problems a year ago and I am a licensed pilot! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know the feeling!! Although I don't fly any more, I spent a LOT of time in "stick and rudder" tube and rag crates. Fancied myself a pretty hot stick UNTIL I got these games http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Nowadays I get thumped roundly and soundly by youngsters that have NEVER sat in a plane much less flown one.

This game has a very steep learning curve. It is well worth the effort to stick with it and think about upgrading your equipment to give you a better edge.

I don't use the rudder that much in a fight most of the time. It does come in handy on take offs, landings and getting your bum out of the spin you dumped yourself into by being silly. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I also use it to snap roll occasionally if the bad guy is close on my six and making a large and very ungainly whistle out of my plane.

The only stupid question is the one that you were afraid to ask. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tully__
11-13-2004, 08:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I agree with 90% of what you said Tully but IMO rudder is important and flying without it for me anyway is asking for a quick death. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't say it wasn't important, just not essential. I have a MS Sidewinder 3 axis (no rudder) laying around here and just for kicks one day I plugged it in and tried it. I certainly wouldn't last online for long using it, but I was able to succesfully fly a few offline missions using it. I sorely missed my rudder axis every second of those missions, but it didn't make them impossible, just a bit more difficult (especially aiming, takeoff & landing).

LEXX_Luthor
11-13-2004, 08:49 PM
Chas:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But when I can't shoot down an old russian double decker with a rookie AI in a FW190 D9 in this game, ... I've been using combat flaps for quick turns and climbs, as well as rudder, which I managed to map acceptably on my joystick after all. But I end up zooming past the enemy if I somehow manage to line up behind him, even at close to stalling speed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nobody want to comment on this?

El Turo
11-13-2004, 09:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blairgowrie:
Chas. I had exactly the same kind of problems a year ago and I am a licensed pilot! I thought there was something wrong with the game. Then I fell in with a bunch of Seattle guys who invited me to fly with them one night a week. At first I crashed almost every time on take off, or if I did get off the ground, I would spin and burn. None of our group put any pressure on me and helped where they could. Slowly but surely I started to get the handle of the game (golf is harder IMHO). Now I never crash on take-off and last week had 5 good carrier landings in a row.I am not a great pilot yet but at least I am heading in the right direction. Just takes practice, practice and, even more practice. Try to get in with a good bunch of guys. Our group is informal and we have all become good friends. Or you can join a more formal group.

Stick with it buddy. It is really worth it. I don't think you will find the answers you seek in a manual. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I live just south of Seattle.. do you guys do LAN setups or via hyperlobby or what?

Jumoschwanz
11-13-2004, 09:23 PM
When I flew older sims online before this I had the MS stick with no "twist" for the rudder. I always got my a$$ kicked and just thought it was me needing to learn something. A nice member of the Hells Angel squad went one on one with me a number of times and after shooting me down as many times asked me what kind of stick I had. He told me I needed the manual rudder control or I would never be able to fly the planes correctly and he was right, I bought the right stick so I could use the rudder and never looked back, and from then on was actually competitive flying against others online.
Next when time permits I am going to finish a pair of rudder pedals I have been making out of the guts of my old stick, and maybe that will take it up another notch yet. Get a good stick now! S!

Jumoschwanz

WTE_Snowhawk
11-13-2004, 09:31 PM
Lex Luthor Wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But when I can't shoot down an old russian double decker with a rookie AI in a FW190 D9 in this game, ... I've been using combat flaps for quick turns and climbs, as well as rudder, which I managed to map acceptably on my joystick after all. But I end up zooming past the enemy if I somehow manage to line up behind him, even at close to stalling speed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Nobody want to comment on this?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay, I'll Bite. Chas, it seems that now you are beginning to go from basic flight problems to tactics problems. Don't get upset, this is a very good sign, and a step in the right direction.
There are very many resources available in these forums, and in other locations on the net, for instance http://wte-anga.com , where you can learn manoeuvres that will help to prevent you from overshooting an opponent. A barrel roll comes to mind, and there are others.
Something that will make a large difference is when you consider what you're flying and what your opponent is flying. If you're in a hot FW-190, and he's in an old biplane, you're **** right that he can fly much slower and turn much sharper than you can. The planes just aren't built the same, so why should we expect them to fly thusly?
Learn about E (engergy) tactics and A (angle) tactics on resources mentioned above.
Tearn about Boom and Zoom, learn about turnfighting.
As was mentioned before, it's a very steep learning curve, but if you stick with it, and read, then apply what you've learned (these forums will help you there), you'll be yanking and bankig with the rest of them,
If that's an andvantage you have over your adversary.
I too recommend that you find a "virtual squadron" and fly with them. They'll help you immensely.
WTE_2TG !!!!

Tully__
11-13-2004, 09:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Chas:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But when I can't shoot down an old russian double decker with a rookie AI in a FW190 D9 in this game, ... I've been using combat flaps for quick turns and climbs, as well as rudder, which I managed to map acceptably on my joystick after all. But I end up zooming past the enemy if I somehow manage to line up behind him, even at close to stalling speed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nobody want to comment on this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, I'll bite.

Saddling up behind is often not the best way to tackle a shoot down, particularly against aircraft with rear gunners. This is where most aircraft's defensive armour is designed to provide the best protection and where you're most at risk of being killed by the enemy gunners.

While it takes some practice, and alternative is slashing attacks from an angle. They provide a better chance of doing some damage and less exposure to return fire. If you'd like I'll record a track of just such an attack for demonstration. Let us know what version of the game you're flying in so I can record something that you'll be able to play back http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

blairgowrie
11-13-2004, 09:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by El Turo:
I live just south of Seattle.. do you guys do LAN setups or via hyperlobby or what? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We connect through one of the guys servers and use Teamspeak to communicate. There are usually 5 of us flying on a Saturday night starting at 5pm PST and we fly for about 4 hours, usually coops made up by one of the guys. If you are over 21 and enjoy a fun evening we would be happy to have you join us for a visit.

ChasARGH
11-14-2004, 08:01 AM
simjock: I have no problem taking off, and I managed to land on my first attempt. In fact, I've never crashed when trying to take off in this game. Landing on carriers also go acceptably well (about 50% of the times).
I went online and managed to get a kill after 45 minutes (very satisfying), and I didn't get the feeling that I was being cheated, like in offline mode.
I went back to single player, got out-turned and ended up nose first into the water. I watched the replay and the enemy seems to make impossible manoeuvres, like instantly slowing down behind me without climbing or cutting the throttle, and making impossible turns in all kinds of speeds. So, I do feel like the game cheats, whether it's true or not.

Snowhawk: I looked through the various sites yesterday. As for the biplane I mentioned, that was obviously just one example. I've tried flying against at a lot of different fighters, and the problem seems to be the same. I only manage to shoot down one or two types, and that only happens when the AI screws up, and apparently forgets I'm there. The enemy ends up flying straight, which gives me the opportunity to line up behind him and shoot him out of the sky as if he was a bomber. The most common occurence when the AI is working, is that the enemy out turns me. For some reason he never manages to shoot me down, though. The AI can't hit anything on "average" AI. I usually die by crashing.
Either way, I've had better luck in the various BF109s than in the FW190s, but I still feel cheated.

Guess I'll keep at it though.

OldMan____
11-14-2004, 08:26 AM
I am sorry to disapoint you.. but ANYTHING will outturn a fw190 unless the 190 has a pretty damm good pilot. Do not even think about outturning your enemy while in a FW190. Try the same with an Spitfire and you will notice things are completely different. Start using Russian planes until you get the game feeling, they are much easier to extract full potential


When I got the game I also tought that planes in tracks made maneuvers impossible, and I stalled whenever I tryed those. Now I can make all those maneuver with single hand in joystick while eating cake at same time. So its just the steep initial step in the learn curve.


AI does have some EXTRA engine power and can slow down faster than normal Flight models. That is required since NO AI can defeat a good human pilot in equal conditions.

Tully__
11-14-2004, 08:54 AM
The AI do have a simplified flight model which means that they are:

Able to accelerate and decerate better
Immune to overheat
Less prone to stall
Better at energy retention
Immune to blackout
Able to see through clouds and solid parts of their plane.

To make up for it, even on Ace settings they're so limited in tactics that you soon work out how to beat them despite their flight model simplifications.