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View Full Version : Any update on AI nav light use?



A.K.Davis
03-24-2006, 08:57 AM
Is the bug with AI nav light use at night being addressed?

Could they not be set to only use nav lights to and from the waypoint immediately following take-off and the waypoint preceding landing?

269GA-Veltro
03-24-2006, 09:49 AM
Bump, good question.

Monty_Thrud
03-24-2006, 10:32 AM
I'm not sure if this is a bug...someone asked for the Nav lights to be switched off so they've compromised...it would be nice to have them adjusted through the Conf.ini or a switch, say when you have your Nav lights on theirs are on also..etc

Also..if we're on with bugs...the MIG3 underwing markings dissappear far to close to the Aircraft...and the AI cheat in the dark...they can see you all to well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I wonder why there isn't a bug report thread http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Chuck_Older
03-24-2006, 11:36 AM
The AI nav lights are the one and onbly thing that allows us to make any kind of night intercept

The exhaust flare in a real aircraft such as those we 'fly' in this sim is quite distinctive. I don't mean the exhaust stacks glowing, I mean a physical discharge of flame

Your automobile could do this if you removed the exhaust manifold(s) and drove around

The planes have very short ejector stacks for exhaust. The exhaust flare is very visible at night in real life

In the sim we have zero exhaust flare. The nav lights are the only thing that give an AI plane away in the dark

I have tested this time and again- when under attack, the AI nav lights go out. When the plane is again in a 'no combat' state, the lights come back on

It may look very odd to have 'civvie' nav lights on in a combat zone. It's even wierder to have planes invisible at night due to the lack of exhaust flare. Removing the AI nav light use destroys any value of making a night intercept mission

A.K.Davis
03-24-2006, 02:44 PM
Umm...you could just turn icons (or better yet, map icons) on if you consider nav lights an acceptable compromise for night time air-to-air combat, which is kinda pointless in the sim anyways.

Air-to-ground night missions are workable, however, but immersion is killed by friendly bombers flying right into the teeth of the enemy with thier nav lights on, only to turn them off AFTER they are in a searchlight or getting nailed by flak.

269GA-Veltro
03-25-2006, 06:37 AM
You got the point Davis, the immersion is killed by the navigation lights.

A.K.Davis
03-28-2006, 06:14 PM
*bump*

Feathered_IV
03-28-2006, 10:42 PM
And another bump.

This is the Holy Grail of most wanted FB/PF features for me. A no nav-light entry in the config would be perhaps the simplest option perhaps.

darkhorizon11
03-28-2006, 11:43 PM
I'm split on this, obviously I would dream of stack flare and radar vectors to intercept enemies at night but I know its not going to happen.

I still think we should have the option, plus if search lights help solve this problem.

Either way BUMP. Please address this in BoB Oleg. Realistic NIGHTFIGHTING WILL ADD A WHOLE NEW ASPECT TO THE GAME! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Nimits
03-30-2006, 04:50 PM
There were cases of aircraft flying in combat areas with nav lights on. Not often granted, but it happened.

LeLv44_Mangrove
04-01-2006, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by Nimits:
There were cases of aircraft flying in combat areas with nav lights on. Not often granted, but it happened.

Yes, this feature enabled Finnish bombers to bomb ADD's bases as they used navigation lights while flying. Finns just infiltrated their bomber stream and bombed while the ADD's bombers were landing.

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2History-NightOfTheBombers.html

ECV56_Rolf
04-01-2006, 06:44 PM
The Pe-8 keeps the nav lights off.

It's the only "heavy" that do this. Don´t know why the other planes don't use the same code for lights.

Anyway, light's are only seen from 5Km away. Maybe that's not so bad. You still need to get near 5Km from the bombers to see them.

At high altitude where there are no clouds, and there is allways a moon, or a never ending sunset, you could allways siluette the bombers against it.

A.K.Davis
04-03-2006, 10:21 AM
Why does everyone assume that the issue is when and where you can see enemy aircraft?

I would like to fly a nighttime air-to-ground mission with a group of friendly bombers and not see their nav lights all the way to and from the target.

A.K.Davis
04-05-2006, 08:46 AM
bump

DoBravery
04-06-2006, 04:26 PM
bump

Feathered_IV
04-07-2006, 02:45 AM
Burp.

Sorry, I mean bump http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

Monson74
04-07-2006, 12:11 PM
Badabumpy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

leitmotiv
04-12-2006, 02:17 AM
The aircraft which used to fly without nav lights were the Pe-8, Ju 88, Tu-2, and Soviet DC-3 (forget its designation). After getting the flyable Ju 88, the Ju 88 flies with nav lights. OK, here is the deal. I completely understand the reasoning for the lit nav lights---someone recently claimed exhaust flare animation was not possible now so nav lights stand in for the flare. If this is true, what I deplore about this reasoning is that nav lights make an airplane infinitely more visible than exhaust flare (for example, you can't see exhaust flare from all angles like you can with nav lights, nav lights make it fairly clear which direction an airplane is heading---exhaust flare does not, and, last but not least, some aircraft were fitted with complicated exhaust flame dampeners which considerably reduced their night visibility). My biggest complaint about the nav light stand-in for exhaust flare is that you can see nav lights from miles off, and exhaust flare was not this visible. This is my opinion on the matter, I would rather have the option to turn off enemy aircraft lights and have to seek an enemy against a light patch in the sky, like a real WWII cat's eyes night fighter, than have my night mission handed to me on a silver platter with the blasted nav lights. Some of the greatest times I've had with this series were in stalking bombers at night with the 110 and Beau. Get ridda da lights!!!!

Feathered_IV
04-12-2006, 06:09 AM
Plus the obvious 'wearing your exhaust flare on your wingtips' is a sure-fire immersion killer too.

leitmotiv
04-12-2006, 06:36 AM
You are not kidding, Feathered_IV. Plus the nav lights tell you exactly how far away he is and show you exactly where to aim for a perfect shot.

A.K.Davis
04-12-2006, 12:32 PM
Which brings us back to the point that a customized icon setting is actually MORE realistic stand-in for exhaust flare than nav lights, because:

-Their visibility can be adjusted.
-They can be set to display virtually no useful information about the aircraft's size or orientation.
-They can be set to realistic visibility distances for exhaust flare.
-They are no more silly than aircraft flying around with nav lights on.
-And, of course, they are totally under the control of the player/host.

Chuck_Older
04-12-2006, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
Which brings us back to the point that a customized icon setting is actually MORE realistic stand-in for exhaust flare than nav lights, because:

-Their visibility can be adjusted.
-They can be set to display virtually no useful information about the aircraft's size or orientation.
-They can be set to realistic visibility distances for exhaust flare.
-They are no more silly than aircraft flying around with nav lights on.
-And, of course, they are totally under the control of the player/host.

But...you're looking strictly from the "I don't want to see friendly AI's nav lights" angle, and that angle only

Icons don't help you physically see the planes. You say that AI nav lights on looks unrealistic. I say that's fine, but after all, nav lights really do and did exist...while invisible exhaust flare does not

Your solution addresses one aspect of the problem, while leaving anyone who wants to actually find that other aircraft with his Mk I eyeball out in the cold. I'm sorry, but that's not a solution to me, that's puritanism at the expense of functionality

A.K.Davis
04-12-2006, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
Which brings us back to the point that a customized icon setting is actually MORE realistic stand-in for exhaust flare than nav lights, because:

-Their visibility can be adjusted.
-They can be set to display virtually no useful information about the aircraft's size or orientation.
-They can be set to realistic visibility distances for exhaust flare.
-They are no more silly than aircraft flying around with nav lights on.
-And, of course, they are totally under the control of the player/host.

But...you're looking strictly from the "I don't want to see friendly AI's nav lights" angle, and that angle only

Icons don't help you physically see the planes. You say that AI nav lights on looks unrealistic. I say that's fine, but after all, nav lights really do and did exist...while invisible exhaust flare does not

Your solution addresses one aspect of the problem, while leaving anyone who wants to actually find that other aircraft with his Mk I eyeball out in the cold. I'm sorry, but that's not a solution to me, that's puritanism at the expense of functionality </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How are nav lights any different than icons set to bright color at 5 kilometers. Spotting nav lights is no more difficult than (limited icons). Icons can even be more challenging for the Mark I eyeball than nav lights (try setting icons to black and ID only at around 2k). Furthermore, as has already been noted, nav lights give you unrealistic information on distance and orientation of aircraft from far, far further than any real life scenario (icons can come closer to real life spotting distances).

But I am glad that I've finally been accused of puritanism for suggesting people use icons in the sim. That's first!

Feathered_IV
04-13-2006, 05:40 AM
So, if we could disable nav lights via the config.ini people like me who want no icons/lights would be happy. People who want no nav lights but do want icons would be happy also. Plus those that prefer navlights we have now in the absence of exhaust flare would be happy too.

I think we're getting somewhere!

JacksonsGhost
04-15-2006, 09:34 AM
With you guys all the way on this...if exhaust flare is so impossible to get, which I still can't understand, at least let us choose when we want the "help" from the AI nav lights, and when we want them to be left in the dark! How realistic is it that an enemy bomber will pump out the lead at you, but not turn the nav lights off until you've started blasting them.