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View Full Version : Another Question About BoB SoW....babes need to know.



MB_Avro_UK
09-06-2007, 03:49 PM
hi all,

IL2 does not model realistically an engine failure in a twin engined aircraft.

For instance,if your left engine in a Mosquito fails the aircraft is modelled to loose power with no flight control problems.

In real life you would be fighting asymmetric forces. The aircraft would swing to the left and right turns would be difficult.Left hand turns could be dangerous.Power settings could be crucial.

Will this be modelled correctly in BoB SoW?

I ask this because I can't sleep at night worrying about this issue http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I was out clubbing in London last Friday and I was amazed that sooo many hot-babes tried to chat to me about asymmetric forces and their possible inclusion in BoB.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif I told them to calm down a bit and be patient otherwise I would have to call the management and consider their ejection from the club http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Asymmetric forces are a hot topic in club-land and I think Oleg has a responsibility towards these babes whose lives are at present on 'hold'.

Oleg...you have a responsibility to inform and save these babes from mental anguish...it's the least you can do...

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Viper2005_
09-06-2007, 04:01 PM
Not quite.

I spent rather a long time investigating single engine flight in IL2 and whilst I am not entirely convinced, the Mosquito will depart quite violently if abused in single engined flight.

However, the reasons are complicated. It certainly isn't just a question of asymmetric thrust.

If you unload the aircraft then you can fly substantially below the placarded single engine safety speed. But as soon as you load up you'll depart.

This seems plausible, but until I have conducted considerably more research I shan't be able to comment further.

However, for the sake of Science, I'll go to the closest thing that my immediate locality has to a club and investigate!

Low_Flyer_MkVb
09-06-2007, 04:07 PM
Well why not try a little experiment, Avro, old chum?

Next time you're in a night club and a hot babe voices her concerns about said assymetric movement compensation, all you have to do is find a part of her body that reminds you of a Mosquito's twin engines and invite her back to yours where you can simulate the opposing forces against said engines...to prove this is a genuine scientific sacrifice on your part, you can replace that Barry White C.D. with the 'Dambusters March' and wear your flying helmet.

MB_Avro_UK
09-06-2007, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
Not quite.

I spent rather a long time investigating single engine flight in IL2 and whilst I am not entirely convinced, the Mosquito will depart quite violently if abused in single engined flight.

However, the reasons are complicated. It certainly isn't just a question of asymmetric thrust.

If you unload the aircraft then you can fly substantially below the placarded single engine safety speed. But as soon as you load up you'll depart.

This seems plausible, but until I have conducted considerably more research I shan't be able to comment further.

However, for the sake of Science, I'll go to the closest thing that my immediate locality has to a club and investigate!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

May I be of assistance..

The club you should visit for your empirical research is called 'BabesWithThrust'.

It is located on Wardour Street,Soho,London. The manager is some chap from Russia who is a multi-millionaire. His name I think is Ollek Maddorx. He has a reputation for perfection in whatever he does.

Mention my name to the doormen and you will receive V.I.P. treatment.

But beware..all the babes there are very informed with regard to flight physics and distrust those who conflict with their perceptions and observations.

My advice is too stay cool and start any discussion at an easy entry point.

May I suggest raising the topic of the effect of 50 cals with regard to tank armour penetration as an opener? They will immediatly realise that you are a friend and flock to you.

You will almost certainly be invited to wild parties but refuse. Remember this...as an IL2 Forum member you must behave with both dignity and restraint.....well, I did for as long as I was able http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Urufu_Shinjiro
09-06-2007, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
Well why not try a little experiment, Avro, old chum?

Next time you're in a night club and a hot babe voices her concerns about said assymetric movement compensation, all you have to do is find a part of her body that reminds you of a Mosquito's twin engines and invite her back to yours where you can simulate the opposing forces against said engines...to prove this is a genuine scientific sacrifice on your part, you can replace that Barry White C.D. with the 'Dambusters March' and wear your flying helmet.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Enforcer572005
09-06-2007, 04:48 PM
Um, try the Pe-2. you lose an engine in that thing, you better start looking for a field on either side of you, but not in front of you.

Have you noticed the thrust difference when you start engines on some planes...like the Beu? You better have your brakes on when you crank that thing up. I think it is modeled quite well, but Ive never flown a twin engine plane, so I can't say for sure.

MB_Avro_UK
09-06-2007, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
Well why not try a little experiment, Avro, old chum?

Next time you're in a night club and a hot babe voices her concerns about said assymetric movement compensation, all you have to do is find a part of her body that reminds you of a Mosquito's twin engines and invite her back to yours where you can simulate the opposing forces against said engines...to prove this is a genuine scientific sacrifice on your part, you can replace that Barry White C.D. with the 'Dambusters March' and wear your flying helmet.

Hey Low_Flyer,

I strongly suspect that you speak from investigative experience http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I also suspect that you were the chap last Friday at the club humming 'London Calling at the Top of the Dial'

The babes were swooning as you illustrated with swift and deft movements of your hands the concept of B & Z.

Maybe we should organise a coach party of il2 members to this club next Friday. Who should we invite? Free entry for those with graphs?

I have several flying helmets that would put at ease those members of a nervous disposition http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
09-06-2007, 05:10 PM
Well, I do have a bus... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/LF_Bus-sig1.jpg

-HH-Quazi
09-06-2007, 05:22 PM
Got to be the most original initial thread post by including the hot babes that were also concerned with asymetric forces after loosing an engine. HEHE Very good.

Skoshi Tiger
09-06-2007, 08:27 PM
Last time I was in a club in London (A long time ago now) the only thing I simulated was cronic motion sickness! (Hmmm! No animated smile for being sick!)

ElAurens
09-06-2007, 10:34 PM
I'd just be happy if the "slip on a banana peel" departure/stall/spin nonsense was fixed.

Real aircraft do not behave this way.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
09-07-2007, 06:21 AM
I smuggled a phone-video out of last night @ BabesWithThrust - the ladies appear to be making aerodynamic movements followed by some sort of pumping motion to represent cross-feeding fuel tanks...I think that's Avro whooping loudest...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv7Lf_PwvrE


We really ought to go en-masse. I'll work out pick up points between Plymouth and London.

DuxCorvan
09-07-2007, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
I'd just be happy if the "slip on a banana peel" departure/stall/spin nonsense was fixed.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

DKoor
09-07-2007, 12:54 PM
+1

SUPERAEREO
09-09-2007, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
Well why not try a little experiment, Avro, old chum?

Next time you're in a night club and a hot babe voices her concerns about said assymetric movement compensation, all you have to do is find a part of her body that reminds you of a Mosquito's twin engines and invite her back to yours where you can simulate the opposing forces against said engines...to prove this is a genuine scientific sacrifice on your part, you can replace that Barry White C.D. with the 'Dambusters March' and wear your flying helmet.


Oh, and take pictures... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

darkhorizon11
09-30-2007, 11:22 AM
Its been about two years since I've flown a twin. I'm multi-rated and looking to get my MEI soon though. Anyways from what I remember, here's some tricks to single engine flight in a ME airplane.

Try a slight bank, about 3 degrees (in level flight) and one half ball deflection, both into the good engine while flying SE. Thats how the FAA and pretty much all aerodynamics manuals recommend you should fly with an engine failed.

Stay fast when flying SE, not slow because first if you stall your screwed, the airplane will jump into a violent spin since there is a huge asymetrical force pulling from one side. Also as you get slower and you correct against the Asym. thrust the rudder and aileron effectiveness decrease, because of the slower airflow around each control surface. It become harder and harder the slower you get to maintain straight and level until eventually the aircraft swings to the side. This airspeed is call Vmc.

As for my input into IL2... SE operations aren't too bad. Asymetrical thrust is definetly modeled pretty well, but the aerodynamics of it aren't. Roll rate isn't reduced, which it should be, and I think the need for rudder and aileron to crab into the good engine isn't required like it should be. The fix to the inherent problem here isn't with just punching in some numbers to fix the control inputs required. Its in the game engine physics its simulates in the first place.

Here's some things that BoB should incorporate to simulate more realistic engine-out procedures.

1. Slipstream off the wings and the prop- Oleg said this would be implemented.

2. More realistic airflow characteristics- the flow of actual air over the wings not just prerecorded reactions to control inputs. The affect of dropping gear, cowlflaps, weight, etc. into the controllability of an aircraft with its engine-out.

3. MULTI-ENGINE SYSTEMS AND PROCEDURES- Mostly overlooked, yet this even is harder to learn and understand than aerodynamics.

a. Crossflow and crossfeed procedures, getting fuel from both tanks to the good engine and away from the bad engine.

b.Fuel cutoff- no more of shutting off the engine but it can still catch fire just because, this is unrealistic, we should have a fuel cutoff with stops fuel flow completely and mostly eliminates the chance of an engine fire.

c. Complex throttles- the ability to have up to a 4 engine throttle stack like in MSFS

d. Other random failures- for example a busted governor which causes a prop overspeed, this isn't a total engine failure just a partial power loss, overboost of engine causing damage, failed vacuum pump requiring the backup to kick so the flight instruments work, engine-driven fuel pump failure- so the pilot must turn on the backup electric pump to keep the engine running...

These are all common WW2 scenarios for multi-engine airplanes which if corrected would make the sim many times more realistic and accurate!

MEGILE
09-30-2007, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
I'd just be happy if the "slip on a banana peel" departure/stall/spin nonsense was fixed.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldn't be so sure.

Did you see Viper's video of a P51 in a non-accelerated stall?
Flips through 90 degrees in the blink of an eye.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
09-30-2007, 11:53 AM
Twin-engined BoB easter egg goodness...no need to worry about cross-feeding tanks with this baby. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/LF2/BoB_topdown.jpg

msalama
09-30-2007, 11:54 AM
In real life you would be fighting asymmetric forces.

Eh... sorry for jumping in rather late in the day, but as they already said this is exactly what you have to do with the Pe-2. Not sure about the other twins though - been a while since I last flew them...

leitmotiv
09-30-2007, 12:15 PM
Diagram of potential asymmetrical forces:

http://myweb.dal.ca/mgoodyea/images/BreastpositionbyCupSize.gif

MB_Avro_UK
09-30-2007, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Diagram of potential asymmetrical forces:

http://myweb.dal.ca/mgoodyea/images/BreastpositionbyCupSize.gif

Does the same thing happen with twin-engine failures? Do they replicate and vibrate? The FAA and CAA need to be informed at once.

I have sent your graph on to the various flight safety organisations and I'm sure they'll be more than thankfull http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Flight safety is paramount and often in a graphical sense twin-peaked....

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

stalkervision
09-30-2007, 07:00 PM
Put props on both and stick her out the window and now your talking.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

leitmotiv
09-30-2007, 07:16 PM
I think we should apply for a ten million dollar grant to further study this matter for the FAA---with a great deal of live studies.

Gitano1979
10-01-2007, 03:12 AM
I fell very offended by this kind of post and I will report tho mods http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

leitmotiv
10-01-2007, 08:48 AM
I am incredibly offended by this thread and I am reporting myself to the mods.

http://www.houseofcuss.co.uk/thepipe/pics/terrythomas.jpg

leitmotiv
10-01-2007, 09:11 AM
http://www.corsetiere.net/Spirella/Beforeafter/Spencer_ad_78.jpg

http://www.markstyling.com/bf109gs/Bf.109.Gcu.01a.jpg