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Freiwillige
07-10-2009, 07:40 PM
Okay lets say that your on the procurment staff for some sm`all country between 1939-1945. And you are dictated to procure Engines, Armement etc to build your own fighter. But you have to designe your own air frame.

What engine would you use?

Would you use 1 or 2 engines?

what armement would you use?

What would your airframe be simular too?

Would you choose more fuel at the expense of arms and armor?

What would you make your airframe out of?

Trefle
07-10-2009, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
Okay lets say that your on the procurment staff for some sm`all country between 1939-1945. And you are dictated to procure Engines, Armement etc to build your own fighter. But you have to designe your own air frame.

What engine would you use?

<span class="ev_code_RED">Merlin engine</span>

Would you use 1 or 2 engines?

<span class="ev_code_RED">one engine (also would lower cost)</span>

what armement would you use?

<span class="ev_code_RED">8 X browning 0.50 cal (2 in the nose , 3 in each wing )</span>

What would your airframe be similar too?

<span class="ev_code_RED">To the Mustang but with a different wing </span>

Would you choose more fuel at the expense of arms and armor?

<span class="ev_code_RED">I'd want the plane to be able to carry at least 2000lb bombs , capable of using rockets and drop tanks . The range should be about 1000 miles in economic cruise without drop tanks </span>

What would you make your airframe out of?

<span class="ev_code_RED">Metal if possible , i'd want a tough structure and armour around the engine . Bubble canopy </span>

SILVERFISH1992
07-10-2009, 08:09 PM
Engine:R-4360

#Engines:2

Armement:12 .50 cals

Airframe similar to:P-38

Highly armored

Airframe:Is magnesium OK?

I'l be back in a while with another design.

SILVERFISH1992
07-10-2009, 08:12 PM
Engine:R-4360

Engines:1

Armement:6 .50 cals

Airframe similar:A6M

Lightly armored except around the cockpit.

Airframe:Same thing

SILVERFISH1992
07-10-2009, 08:18 PM
Engine:50hp Continental O-170

1 Engine

Armement:BB gun

Airframe similar:?

No armor, 1 gallon of gas

Airframe:lead

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

PanzerAce
07-10-2009, 09:53 PM
Engine: Jumo 213JT (turbocharged four valve varient [no, I don't know if the 213T was to use the J heads or the earlier three valve heads)

Primary Armament: 8x .50/13mm/15mm firing API/APIT, two in a cowl mount, two in a 'chin' mount basically mirroring the cowl mount, and two more in each wing, as close to the fuselage as possible.

Secondary Armament: Provisions for under wing and under fuselage bomb/drop tank/rocket racks.

Airframe: Similar to the 190D, but maybe 10-20% larger

Fuel vs. armor/armament: armored tub around the pilot, self sealing tanks, armored tubes for the control cables, but beyond that, no armor. It most likely wouldn't be a good escort fighter, but would be good for general purpose, and if you hung tanks on it, could be used for long range escort. Also, cram a tank behind the pilot (like the -51, and also like the -51, make the pilots empty that one first)

Airframe: Magnesium/Aluminum/steel. Standard aircraft materials of the time (no wood though)

M_Gunz
07-10-2009, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by SILVERFISH1992:
Airframe:Is magnesium OK?

Right up till you have a fire. Look for historic footage of a Zero going down on fire. It's like the sun is falling.
With enough temperature aluminum will burn insanely bright but it's much easier to set and keep magnesium going.

ImMoreBetter
07-10-2009, 11:19 PM
What engine would you use?
R-2800

Would you use 1 or 2 engines?
2 engines if I want sexy.
1 if I want to survive.

what armement would you use?
4 Hispanos

What would your airframe be simular too?
La-7 meets P-47 if you can imagine that.

Would you choose more fuel at the expense of arms and armor?

Lots of armor. Perhaps a medium range if possible.

What would you make your airframe out of?

Unobtainium.

If not, it would be all metal.
Keep it very simple and functional. Make it very ugly.

Ba5tard5word
07-10-2009, 11:44 PM
Do-335 with 5 30mm cannons and a canopy that doesn't obscure my vision.

BillSwagger
07-10-2009, 11:46 PM
What engine would you use?

engine:
PW R-4360
strong, powerful engine
I would have a closed cowling with fans, instead of the regular cowl flaps.



Would you use 1 or 2 engines?

i engine will do.


what armement would you use?

6 or 8 50 cals on wings, or 4 20 mm cals.
Slots could be interchangable.



What would your airframe be simular too?
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r201/spre77/xp-72-600.jpg



EDIT:
It occured to me you could move the firewall forward allowing for improved visability from the cockpit.
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r201/spre77/xp-72-6001.jpg

Stating to look like a Yak meets P-47 prototype.

END EDIT



This is a pic of a p-72 profile, but I would try to fit the intake behind the pilot if drag was not a factor.
It might look like this, at least in the nose.
It would retain the large design to house the supercharger, but i also thought of making it sleeker like an F4U to give it better power to weight.



Would you choose more fuel at the expense of arms and armor?

It would be more of interceptor/ patrol, so armor and fuel would be favored over bombs or rockets, however, there could be two wing designs for this.

If you wanted a fast interceptor, you could opt for 8 50 cal or 4 20mm and small wing tanks.

If you needed to escort bombers, you could make a wing that had larger wing tanks, and fit 6 50 cal guns.

If you needed to ground pound,
You could opt for 4 20mm guns, small wing tanks, and have mounts for bombs on the inside of the wing, and even a couple slots on the outside of each wing for rockets.

What would you make your airframe out of?
Metal, and aluminum.
Not sure they had titanium alloys back then, but if it could be made, i would use that.

hirosangels
07-11-2009, 12:24 AM
Two versions of the aircraft.


airframe:

Bubble canopy for fighter, like p-51 D. Attack would have a bubble canopy set up but armored
frames around it (like a zero canopy).


I'm torn between the Dornier Do 335 Pfeil or the Kyushu J7W1 Shinden.

I love the push prop configuration, and reasoning is it gives a good view, less turbulance over the wings . . .


The Do 335 is intersting. I choose this because of its design advantages.


Push would be slight swept wing, little on the delta side, with vertical stabilizers on each

wing, bottom mounted. Maybe have slight gull wing as the props in the back need clearance (esp on the carrier version). it would have canards in the front. A vert stabilizer (small one) would be mounted in the back.,

Push pull would be like Do 335 but slight sweep, and small vert stabilizers near the edge.


metals: alloys commonly used during ww 2 era.


armor: solid structure, armored cockpit and vital areas (engine, control, self sealing tanks etc).

The attack version would be armored all around like the IL-2, considerably slower, but still
maneuverable.



This aircraft's design is around balance. The weight distrubution (on full tank w/ full load out

or nearly empty) would allow maneuverability along with solid performance. The engineers and

pilots helping them would ensure there are few quirks of the aircraft.


The plane would be a balanced fighter, you could use it for BnZ or TnB, but not dedicated to

either style.



Fuel: it would be a good balance, long range w/ drop tanks


Armament, there would be two versions


fighter: six 50 cal + 2 20mm

attack: six 50 cal, 2 30 mm or 1x 45mm or some heavy canons

(I wish I could go all out and get 8 .50's and 4 20mms or 30mms but . . .)


push, it would be nose / body mounted guns.

the do-335 would have nose / prop sync'd cannons, and the 50's would go in the wings.


payload would be 2k of ordnance (mounted on wings and body), rockets, bombs, gunpods, heck even

torpedos. Allows droptanks.



Two engines (more survivability)

radials for either airframe, push prop would have twin contra rotating dual set of 5 bladed props,

the push pull would use 5 bladed rear prop, 3 bladed front prop (easier to sync cannons with a 3 blade than a 5 . . .), variable pitch propellers.

I chose radials as they are simple and can take more damage. I would have liked rotary / ****el
but that wasn't invented yet.

they should have superchargers but designed to fit the role (attack for boost / fighter speed and

high alt performance)

DeerHunterUK
07-11-2009, 04:05 AM
Interesting thread

What engine would you use?

De Havilland Goblin II

Would you use 1 or 2 engines?

Single engine mounted in the fuselage, intake at the front.

what armament would you use?

2-4 x 20 mm Hispano Mk.V cannons mounted in either the wing root or in the nose.

What would your airframe be similar to?

It'd be along the lines of a F-86 or MiG-9

Would you choose more fuel at the expense of arms and armor?

No, my design calls for weapons and lightweight armour.

What would you make your airframe out of?

I'd try to the airframe from plywood or in case it bursts into flame (distinct possibility)...aluminium. I'd also use a swept wing design similar to the Me-262 with a tail unit developed from the Miles M.3b tested at the RAE.

JtD
07-11-2009, 04:43 AM
I'd just take my old Fokker E.III and invade your countries by the means of air supremacy while you guys still do your research and development on fancy late war designs.

ROXunreal
07-11-2009, 05:02 AM
Engine: a single Jumo engine, with Erhöhte Notleistung boost.

Armament: 3x 20mm cannons and 2x ShKAS, one cannon would go through the propeller hub and I'd try to fit the 2 ShKAS machine guns into the nose as well, shooting through the propeller arc. The two other cannons would be in the wing roots.

Airframe would be something between a La-7 and an FW-190, however hard that is to imagine. I'd want my plane to have the speed of the FW 190 but more turning capability without using up so much energy, and eliminate snap rolls.

Fuel: It would be a low-mid range fighter, primary emphasis would be on superior armament and combat versatility. Armament would make it a great bomber interceptor but it would also be a formidable opponent in dogfights. For longer range droptanks would be added, and the main fuel tank would be situated behind the pilot to distribute the weight from the guns in the nose.

The fighter should also be able to do a modest ground attack, thus carry a 500kg bomb or equivalent load of rockets. It's primary role would still be a fighter-interceptor though.

Airframe material would be metal, though I'm not sure about adding engine armor because of the weight of the 3 guns in the nose. Pilot area would be heavily armored though, and the plane would have a bubble canopy.

Landing gear would be standard, wheels opening outwards and closing inwards (like FW 190 and La, not like Bf-109 and Spit).

BillSwagger
07-11-2009, 07:43 AM
too more prototypes based on my previous post:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r201/spre77/xp-72-6003.jpg

the turbo intake could also be mounted with vents that open and close depending on how much turbo/supercharging is need.
(marked by yellow tint, one vent on each side.)
Would also minimize drag.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r201/spre77/F4U1A_72xp_5B.jpg

I had to make an F4U hybrid prototype.
Would probably turn out like this.

http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/fake_aircraft_2.htm

This is a site that has more modified photos of could be aircraft. He's got some interesting ones, like the Hellcat with a big engine.

http://www.kristofmeunier.fr/Pm1278337f.JPG

Deedsundone
07-11-2009, 10:40 AM
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c84/S-8/J22.jpg

A modified FFVS J22. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

AllorNothing117
07-11-2009, 11:33 AM
I'd builed the P-38L thanks.

SILVERFISH1992
07-11-2009, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by SILVERFISH1992:
Engine:R-4360

#Engines:2

Armement:12 .50 cals

Airframe similar to:P-38

Highly armored

Airframe:Is magnesium OK?

I'l be back in a while with another design.

And it will have a luxurious Cockpit too! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

danjama
07-11-2009, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by PanzerAce:
Engine: Jumo 213JT (turbocharged four valve varient [no, I don't know if the 213T was to use the J heads or the earlier three valve heads)

Primary Armament: 8x .50/13mm/15mm firing API/APIT, two in a cowl mount, two in a 'chin' mount basically mirroring the cowl mount, and two more in each wing, as close to the fuselage as possible.

Secondary Armament: Provisions for under wing and under fuselage bomb/drop tank/rocket racks.

Airframe: Similar to the 190D, but maybe 10-20% larger

Fuel vs. armor/armament: armored tub around the pilot, self sealing tanks, armored tubes for the control cables, but beyond that, no armor. It most likely wouldn't be a good escort fighter, but would be good for general purpose, and if you hung tanks on it, could be used for long range escort. Also, cram a tank behind the pilot (like the -51, and also like the -51, make the pilots empty that one first)

Airframe: Magnesium/Aluminum/steel. Standard aircraft materials of the time (no wood though)

I would also like this, how much will it be? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

very interesting thread, can't say i've seen one like this before, nice idea http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

M_Gunz
07-11-2009, 04:53 PM
I'd like to see a Mossie with a ramjet it could lower from and raise into the bomb bay, and at least 4 20mm up front
and perhaps a bit of wing sweep raise the Critical Mach just a bit.. accidentally on purpose.

Stiletto-
07-11-2009, 09:37 PM
I could talk about different wings and ducting and canopies and all that, but I would really like to see a Mig-3U with a Merlin, an IAR.80 with a BMW 801 and a P-38 with the updated 4 bladed prop or possible merlin setup. It would have also been nice to see the P-40Q entered into production.

PanzerAce
07-11-2009, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by danjama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PanzerAce:
Engine: Jumo 213JT (turbocharged four valve varient [no, I don't know if the 213T was to use the J heads or the earlier three valve heads)

Primary Armament: 8x .50/13mm/15mm firing API/APIT, two in a cowl mount, two in a 'chin' mount basically mirroring the cowl mount, and two more in each wing, as close to the fuselage as possible.

Secondary Armament: Provisions for under wing and under fuselage bomb/drop tank/rocket racks.

Airframe: Similar to the 190D, but maybe 10-20% larger

Fuel vs. armor/armament: armored tub around the pilot, self sealing tanks, armored tubes for the control cables, but beyond that, no armor. It most likely wouldn't be a good escort fighter, but would be good for general purpose, and if you hung tanks on it, could be used for long range escort. Also, cram a tank behind the pilot (like the -51, and also like the -51, make the pilots empty that one first)

Airframe: Magnesium/Aluminum/steel. Standard aircraft materials of the time (no wood though)

I would also like this, how much will it be? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

very interesting thread, can't say i've seen one like this before, nice idea http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, if I ever get around to renting out the hanger and machine shop space, and find someone to put the money up to get some CNC machines and other stuff, I'll let you know how much it would cost then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Kocur_
07-12-2009, 02:31 AM
A perfect WW2 piston engined fighter was built in Soviet Union... after WW2. Well at least it had perfect general configuration: had all-metal airframe, was small and light, was powered with radial engine, had quite heavy armament close to centerline, laminar wings, lots of internal fuel. The powerplant surely was far from perfect.
In other words I'd take La-9 (http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/la9.html) or La-11 (http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/la11.html) and redesign it a bit to be powered by R-2800, I'd strenghten airframe here and there, particularly to provide hardpoints for bombs/rockets, I'd also replace NS-23 with four MG 151/20 plus considerably more rounds per gun than in original.

Bremspropeller
07-12-2009, 03:51 AM
P-47N

VW-IceFire
07-12-2009, 07:53 PM
My perfect WWII aircraft would be something of a cross between a P-51H, a Tempest II, and a Spitfire.

Powerplant would be the Centarus Radial (from the Tempest II) engine for huge power and added reliability. Airframe would be a compromise of strength and lightweight. All aluminum construction. Bubble canopy. Minimal armour plating for the engine (better than average) and standard protection for the pilot (rear seat plate, front windscreen). A fair amount of fuel reserve. Armament for four 20mm cannons, rockets, and bombs.

If balanced right it could be a relatively lightweight aircraft with a lot of power on tap and a built in ground attack capability.

I think I've described a Hawker Fury actually. Or what it should have been.

SILVERFISH1992
07-13-2009, 07:16 AM
That temptest canopy looks cool, put a bigger version of those on that P-38 I designed and it would look sweet!
By the way that P-38 will have heated leather seats and XM satellite radio! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

alert_1
07-13-2009, 11:52 AM
What engine would you use?

Junkers JUMO 004

Would you use 1 or 2 engines?
TWO

what armement would you use?
4xMK108 + 2000 lbs bombs

What would your airframe be simular too?
Go229

Would you choose more fuel at the expense of arms and armor?
balance

What would you make your airframe out of?
duraluminium+laminate

general_kalle
07-14-2009, 12:38 PM
the optimal fighter must be a Spitfire MK. XXIV
with 2 counter rotating props and a clipped wing with option to hang 2 additional 75 gallon drop tanks.

armement 4 Hispano cannons located in the wings close to the fuselage

the landing gear is changed so that it opens wide like on the FW190 and a tailhook added on a Seafire Variant.

alternativly 250lb bombs can be hanged from the wings and a 500lb from the center, or 8 60lb rockets in the wings.

Engine is the Griffon 61 with a two-stage supercharger for high altitude operation.

tell me its weeknesses?

===========================

Me262 with 5 MG 151/20 in the nose and 2 more in the wings and 4 Juncker jumo Jet engines. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

PanzerAce
07-14-2009, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
the optimal fighter must be a Spitfire MK. XXIV
with 2 counter rotating props and a clipped wing with option to hang 2 additional 75 gallon drop tanks.

armement 4 Hispano cannons located in the wings close to the fuselage

the landing gear is changed so that it opens wide like on the FW190 and a tailhook added on a Seafire Variant.

alternativly 250lb bombs can be hanged from the wings and a 500lb from the center, or 8 60lb rockets in the wings.

Engine is the Griffon 61 with a two-stage supercharger for high altitude operation.

tell me its weeknesses?

===========================

Me262 with 5 MG 151/20 in the nose and 2 more in the wings and 4 Juncker jumo Jet engines. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Ammo capacity and range. Limited ground pounding munitions, contra props mean that all guns are outside the prop arc, so you are going to get more dispersion.

Also, while you may be able to get to high alt, you are going to be very down on power with single speed supers.

Jaws2002
07-14-2009, 08:42 PM
What engine would you use?

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Jumo 222</span>

Would you use 1 or 2 engines?

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Two. Do335 like arangement.</span>

what armement would you use?

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">-30mm Ho155 shooting Mk108 Minegeshos in the prop hub
-2xMG151 modified for larger case capacity on the cowling
-optional depending on mission two extra 20mm or 30mm in the wings just outside of the prop disc.
(30mm cannons are not good to fire through the prop disc because of the large case capacity, otherwise I would put them in the wing roots.)

Instalations for up too 2000LBS bombs + rockets and instalation for external fuel tanks.</span>

What would your airframe be simular too?

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Ta-152C front and cockpit with the rear and wing completely redesigned for the Pull-Push configuration. </span>

Would you choose more fuel at the expense of arms and armor?

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Balance. </span>

What would you make your airframe out of?

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Carbon fiber and titanium. </span> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Since we use ww2 parts then all metal.</span>

Something like this:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/<FA>Jaws/do335_v3copy.jpg

Not built to be a light bomber, like the huge DO335, but built to be a front line fighter, with solid ground attack capabilities.

R_Target
07-14-2009, 08:58 PM
F8F-2 would cover most of my needs.

Freiwillige
07-14-2009, 09:46 PM
Wow Jaws pretty sweet!