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View Full Version : How to get rid of two me109K's



general_kalle
11-03-2008, 10:48 AM
this thing happened a while ago so i dont remember all the details unfortunatly:

I was flying in my trusty George over Okinawa on Skies of fire(i think) there werent that many players so you had good chance of climbing. i think i was cruising around 3000meters when i spotted two Me109K's high above me! something like 4500 meters. im not that good at judging altitude.

after dogding the first two zoom and boom attacks by them i was low on speed and when i saw them dive in for the theird attack i decided that i had to dive aswell. they were teamworking relly well flying Lead and wingman.
i started to dive aswell throwing full throttle. when i quickly accelerated i recognized the danger and threw my throttle back to 5 or something reducing pitch to 70% or 80% (cant remember) when they started to get within fire range and i saw the first blue tracers slowly go by my cocpit i began cirkling down in a large spiral so i wouldnt overspeed.
i continued like that for the rest of the 2000 meters until i reached the deck. there i made a pullout helped by my elevator trim and my auto deploying flaps (a really nice feature of the George) i had just leveled and began looking around for my chasers... then SLAM.. SLAM
I was very suprised when the both of them slammed into the ground not far from me with an incredible speed. They had made a crucial mistake by following a george in a high speed almost vertical dive. the 109's faced a high compressibility and were unable to pull up when i did and ended as two smoking holes in the ground. I had a hard time stopping to laugh. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
i was only afterwards i recognized that it was a great tactic that i should have been aware of before instead of discovering it by a coincidence.
i got a "nice flown" in the chat i had flew happily home having two kills without firing a shot and not being hit even once. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

so remember when fighting 109's in a plane that keeps its handling at high speed. Trick them into a high speed dive and pullout in the last second... unfortunatly some more experienced pilots will probably pull up in time. they can then choose to sacrifice about half of their initial energy for a kill or climb back up to where they were.

The p51 is also one of those planes that keeps its handling at highspeed. unfortunatly it doesnt keep its wings http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

general_kalle
11-03-2008, 10:50 AM
whops wrong forum. Sorry, somebody please move it

FoolTrottel
11-03-2008, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
whops wrong forum. Sorry, somebody please move it
Fixed.

PanzerAce2.0
11-03-2008, 01:54 PM
Sounds like they were doing good on the teamwork side, but diving in a 109 indicates that they weren't really the most experienced. If *I* had been one of those 109s, I probably would have slowly come down to your level. Sure, you would have seen me coming and could have run, but that way it probably would have devolved into a turning rather than diving fight.

JtD
11-03-2008, 02:07 PM
The easiest way to get rid off two 109K's over Okinawa is to fly on even remotely historical servers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

crucislancer
11-03-2008, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by JtD:
The easiest way to get rid off two 109K's over Okinawa is to fly on even remotely historical servers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

LOL! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I think if I was one of the 109 pilots, I would have just let you go in the first place, unless I was confident that I could catch the George before the dive went bad. I wouldn't give up my advantage.

Of course, like JtD I don't think I would fly on a server with an open mix of planes like that. It's just too weird for me.

Divine-Wind
11-03-2008, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by PanzerAce2.0:
Sounds like they were doing good on the teamwork side, but diving in a 109 indicates that they weren't really the most experienced. If *I* had been one of those 109s, I probably would have slowly come down to your level. Sure, you would have seen me coming and could have run, but that way it probably would have devolved into a turning rather than diving fight.
I thought one of the 109's greatest strengths was its diving ability? The again I haven't flown the 109 too much (And not in a long while), and the only experience I have with the George is from considering it for Sea Dogs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

But anyways, the next time I find myself being chased by a pair of Kurfursts I shall keep this tactic in mind.

general_kalle
11-03-2008, 02:52 PM
i fly everywhere aslong as the flying realism is high. although i prefer realistic servers it can be fun to fly theese servers where you can choose from alot of different planes and find alot of wierd match ups.

K_Freddie
11-03-2008, 03:13 PM
Must have been noobs as they didn't 'see' the spiral dive - or any vertical dive requires a throttle cut. Team work means nothing if you do not know what you're doing.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Divine-Wind
11-03-2008, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
Must have been noobs as they didn't 'see' the spiral dive - or any vertical dive requires a throttle cut. Team work means nothing if you do not know what you're doing.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
But at least then you look cool while you muck about. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Bremspropeller
11-03-2008, 03:52 PM
Spitfires can fly to Switzerland.
109s can fly to Okinawa.

Pick wisely.

TinyTim
11-03-2008, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by PanzerAce2.0:
Sure, you would have seen me coming and could have run, but that way it probably would have devolved into a turning rather than diving fight.

...in which, I believe, N1K would win against Bf109K 9 out of 10 times. Navy pilots didn't christen it "super zero" for nothing.

slipBall
11-03-2008, 03:58 PM
Brem http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Bremspropeller
11-03-2008, 04:52 PM
Longer legs...bigger jugs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Depends how you put it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

DuckyFluff
11-03-2008, 05:00 PM
I don't get it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Why would 109Ks be over Okinawa and why would a Japanese aircraft be dogfighting them? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Divine-Wind
11-03-2008, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Longer legs...bigger jugs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Depends how you put it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif
Going to have to go with legs tbqh. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Not that anything is wrong with having bigger *ahem* 'jugs,' but...

WTE_Galway
11-03-2008, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by DuckyFluff:
I don't get it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Why would 109Ks be over Okinawa and why would a Japanese aircraft be dogfighting them? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Maybe they were Slovak 109's during the Slovak rebellion when the Slovak Republic changed sides and started fighting for the allies (though I am pretty sure they only had G6's not K's). They also must have been fitted with pretty massive ferry tanks to get across to japan.

La7_brook
11-04-2008, 04:44 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PanzerAce2.0:
QUOTE]
I thought one of the 109's greatest strengths was its diving ability? The again I haven't QUOTE] U must thinking of RL , the 2 are not the same http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

general_kalle
11-05-2008, 01:56 AM
la7_brook.. study the strukture of the HTML tags...

and no this tread was not about the realism about 109K's presence over okinawa...doesnt matter where i flew it was on the moon or in Antartica. the point was that i flew them into the ground http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

rnzoli
11-05-2008, 02:41 AM
You is wrong.
They flew themselves into the ground http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
You were just a "helper" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

By the way, I think that manouver kills are generally under-appreciated and less known (surely due to no points given by the game), although I think it requires a bit more intelligence than using your guns. You can always "score" with manouver kills, even where you are just a poor unarmed recon, or out of ammo, or not in a shooting position.

Typical manouver kills:
- overspeeding - only the noobiest guys buy this, just when they aim, they lose an aileron, an elevator and then a wing
- split-S close to the ground (with flaps extending and using the ground-effect) - the attacker usually forgets the flaps in the heat of the chase and a few meters make the difference http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
- scissoring - works good with 2 uncoordinated attackers in short distance, they are likely to collide
- pulling up ahead of a very slow (often damaged) opponent - most greedy pilots buy this, raise their nose to aim and stall out in the process, the good side is that you don't need to sacrify your own speed advantage just to finish the job
- posing as a viable target for your opponent in a tempting vertical downwards shot near the ground, jinking in the last moment and watching him unable to pull out...

Erkki_M
11-05-2008, 03:47 AM
On manouvering kills... This happened last week in the Air Domination War.

Me and my mate flew Yak7As, we took 100% of fuel and headed to the frontlines. Right at the moment we flew across the frontline at 4000m, we spotted some IL-2s down at the deck pounding some poor panzers, and 2 contacts above them, at 3000m: Krauts! The other one of the Jerries went down and attacked the IL2s(only to get shot down by a rear gunner), the other one headed for me. As he fired from head-on(I evaded low-left) and passed me I saw it was an IAR. My wingman went for the IAR, but he turned hard left, rolled and ran for it, and we gave up the chase.

At this point I was at about 3000m, right over the 10km long panzer line and being shot at by every single gun down there. A few seconds after my mate gave up chasing the IAR and turned south(where we gave from), the IAR turned behind him. The last thing he wanted was a turnfight over 1,000 flak guns, and he began a shallow dive to the East and Krymskaya. The plan was to drag & bag him. At the same time I was beginning to lead turning to my wingman(they were behind me), I saw a plane almost right above me, a few kilometers to the north at 5000m - a 109. I had not seen him coming, as I was looking down at the IL2s and the IAR.

I stopped turning right, turned a little back to left to head directly to Krymskaya and put my overmodelled Yak7A into a shallow dive. I was hoping for the 109 to not see me or at least not attack, as I was already almost over the front lines and the rest of the V-VS was informed of the situation via chat. No: he rolled over and dived to my high 6. At this point my wingman got a direct hit from of the AAA and blew up.

Awesome: 100% fuel, over enemy territory and a Bf109F4 behind. I dived as fast as the Yak would let me, hoping to get him into high speed scissors. At 2000m he was already in firing range. Cut power, left, right, left, right, negative G, positive G, a little rudder. He shot, missed and was forced to pull up. At deck now, he came again, right, negative G, left, left, more negative G, he shot again, flew inside my roll, passed and pulled up. Flaps, pulled up on him, a short burst: hits in the fuselage, but no speed for another shot. More speed at the deck, again he drops to my 6, this time level. Hard turn, negative G and left roll. He also cuts throttle and I see him drop his flaps, I do the same, but he stays behind me for several seconds. Just before hes about to pass me he gets a firing solution: I hear one "click", which is enough to put my left wing full of holes.

Now, I am almost level. He is at my 2 o clock, a few meters higher and turning to me, but he no longer has his flaps all down! He passes me from above, banks right towards me, drops lower(to get speed), pulls up, his nose almost is almost towards me, just half a degree or so anymore... vapor trails from his wings... and his left wings stalls through, at the altitude of less than 100m!

Back at home I made my first 3-point landing on a Yak _ever_. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

general_kalle
11-05-2008, 05:17 AM
interesting nice tricks, very useful it seams, especially against the many less eperienced pilots you can find out there.

Xiolablu3
11-05-2008, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by La7_brook:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PanzerAce2.0:
QUOTE]
I thought one of the 109's greatest strengths was its diving ability? The again I haven't QUOTE] U must thinking of RL , the 2 are not the same http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif



Being able to dive fast has nothing to do with whether the plane has good elevator response at very high speed.

La7_brook
11-05-2008, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by La7_brook:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PanzerAce2.0:
QUOTE]
I thought one of the 109's greatest strengths was its diving ability? The again I haven't QUOTE] U must thinking of RL , the 2 are not the same http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif



Being able to dive fast has nothing to do with whether the plane has good elevator response at very high speed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>But the K4 been know for great at boom and zoom ,does need a little more then 400kph elevator response , U think ? or u just trying till us u know all the facts again http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Badsight-
11-07-2008, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by La7_brook:
But the K4 been know for great at boom and zoom ,does need a little more then 400kph elevator response , U think ? or u just trying till us u know all the facts again http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif a high dive speed without breaking
an excellent climb rate

these 2 things dont mean it has good high speed elevator authority

stalkervision
11-07-2008, 02:25 PM
carry a few underwing bombs and drop them while your being followed.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

general_kalle
11-07-2008, 04:58 PM
and chance of hitting the plane behind you is....very small.

stalkervision
11-07-2008, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
and chance of hitting the plane behind you is....very small.

actually pilots were known to drop their drop tanks and very nearly hit planes following them.

Scolar
11-09-2008, 03:42 AM
I was in a game last night and a fella was being followed by the enemy in a 90 degree vertical flight. He dropped his two bombs and they hit and killed his attacker! Sounded pretty cool.

Back on topic: Having read through your stories and being a noob I will now try out using my flaps to help me at low level flying.