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Sushiglutton
09-11-2011, 02:07 PM
AC is one of my favourite franchises of all times. But as wonderful as AC is, there are some moments that are so stupid that it completely breaks the immerson. I can accept a lot of unrealistic things (love the leap of faith for example), but in some missions the game crosses the line and becomes ridiculous instead of magical.

For example there's a mission in the Da Vinci dissapearence DLC where u visit an art exhibiton. The goal is to mark some of the paintings so that ur allied courtesan's can come back later and steal them for you. So far so good. The paintings are guarded by soldiers. In order to lure them away from the paintings u are supposed to assassinate some of their colleagues.

This is when things start to become really silly. The guards leave their posts to inspect their fallen comrades. After a couple of seconds they return to their posts as if nothing happened. The visitors at first shocked by the murdered guard go back to chatting to eachother. Among the ten or so visitors there's this guy, fully visible, dressed in a white robe and armed to the teeth. Crossbow on his back, a sword and a bunch of throwing knives. Could it be him? He doesnt exactly blend in.

Now u can kill another guard and the same thing will happen all over. To me this is just too dumb to accept. I understand it's just a game, but there has to be some realism in the way NPC react. At the very least Ezio should have some disguise. Moments like these are really disturbing to me (another example is when u infiltrate the Basilica of St. Peter and "hide" (???) among the cardinals).

Overall the A.I. can be too stupid sometimes and that's a shame, because u get pulled out of the wonderful gameworld and feel cheated. Heres hoping they've put some work into that for the upcoming game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif!

Altair661
09-11-2011, 02:13 PM
Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that it's a videogame. It can't and won't be perfect. I have always thought about how they don't notice him when he has his entire arsenal on him. Revelations seems to fix that a little. You can't really notice him as much, because he doesnt have weapons all over him. But I can understand where you come from. But hey, it's just a videogame. It'll have some problems and the AI isn't the best.

Sushiglutton
09-11-2011, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Altair661:
Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that it's a videogame. It can't and won't be perfect. I have always thought about how they don't notice him when he has his entire arsenal on him. Revelations seems to fix that a little. You can't really notice him as much, because he doesnt have weapons all over him. But I can understand where you come from. But hey, it's just a videogame. It'll have some problems and the AI isn't the best.

Yeah I know it's just a game and I understand where u come from too. And like I said I can accept a lot of unrealistic things. It's just that sometimes it becomes a bit awkward if u know what I mean.

I'm just hoping they could come up with some more elegant solutions for these infiltration missions to make them look and feel less dumb.

AnthonyA85
09-11-2011, 02:22 PM
I have to admit, i kind of agree with the OP

I mean, they didn't have to rewrite the civilian AI for ACB and AC2, but they did, and as a consequence, made the Civies as gormless and stupid as the guards.

The Civilian/Crowd AI in AC1 was perfect. Kill a guard in front of a crowd (or throw him from the rooftops) and the Civies run screaming bloody murder, but in AC2 and AC2, the just walk past, look and say "oh look, a body", the histerical screaming and panicing is something i've missed since AC1

dxsxhxcx
09-11-2011, 02:32 PM
I wouldn't mind if in the next games they implement a system where we are able to get NPC (normal people in the streets, guards, etc) clothes that will fit "x" situation (like the ones you mentioned) better than the assassin's robes together with the ability to choose which weapon we want to carry with us (because a normal person carrying tons of weapons wouldn't make sense and would draw even more attention) to make things more realistic...

Altair661
09-11-2011, 02:37 PM
It's kind of like Crysis, you can be seen and get shot at, but go cloak in a corner for a few minutes and they'll pretend you weren't even there. Same for Splinter Cell. For as big as ACB and AC2 was, I wonder how detailed they could make the AI. I personally like the notiriety system in ACB. But one thing they should do, is something along the lines of Mafia 2. If you kill a bunch of guards in your Asassin White, switch your color (or even your coat, hoodie, thing) and maybe even take off your crossbow, and they wont notice you right away. I loved doing that in Mafia, you could buy different clothes get bootlegged license plates, and really a deep AI system.

I think something like that could be integrated into ACR, but they'd need more customization of your character in order to do that, which I think they may have.

Sushiglutton
09-11-2011, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
I wouldn't mind if in the next games they implement a system where we are able to get NPC (normal people in the streets, guards, etc) clothes that will fit "x" situation (like the ones you mentioned) better than the assassin's robes together with the ability to choose which weapon we want to carry with us (because a normal person carrying tons of weapons wouldn't make sense and would draw even more attention) to make things more realistic...

That's a great idea, love it! Basically you should be able to choose whatever disguise u want like u describe, by knocking people unconcious. That would be briliant.

And also choose gadgets/weapons dependng on mission type. Hidden blades and some smokebombs should do the trick for these infiltration missions (for example). The rest u could leave at the base.

Your suggetions would be a great and fairly easily implemented solution!

dxsxhxcx
09-11-2011, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by Sushiglutton:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
I wouldn't mind if in the next games they implement a system where we are able to get NPC (normal people in the streets, guards, etc) clothes that will fit "x" situation (like the ones you mentioned) better than the assassin's robes together with the ability to choose which weapon we want to carry with us (because a normal person carrying tons of weapons wouldn't make sense and would draw even more attention) to make things more realistic...

That's a great idea, love it! Basically you should be able to choose whatever disguise u want like u describe, by knocking people unconcious. That would be briliant.

And also choose gadgets/weapons dependng on mission type. Hidden blades and some smokebombs should do the trick for these infiltration missions (for example). The rest u could leave at the base.

Your suggetions would be a great and fairly easily implemented solution! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

harm civilians to get their clothes wouldn't be cool but we should be able to get civilian clothes at the assassin's dens for example.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Altair661
09-11-2011, 02:42 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sushiglutton:
And also choose gadgets/weapons dependng on mission type. Hidden blades and some smokebombs should do the trick for these infiltration missions (for example). The rest u could leave at the base.
QUOTE]

What they need to do is limit your amount of weapons/items you can hold. Instead of having ALL of your weapons on you all the time. Maybe even make a weight system. Or just limit the weapon wheel to 4 items(not counintg hidden blade) so you'd have to choose between your sword, gun, bombs, crossbow, etc. Or make it where the more weapons you hold, the more noritey you'll have and the faster they'll notice you.

Sushiglutton
09-11-2011, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sushiglutton:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
I wouldn't mind if in the next games they implement a system where we are able to get NPC (normal people in the streets, guards, etc) clothes that will fit "x" situation (like the ones you mentioned) better than the assassin's robes together with the ability to choose which weapon we want to carry with us (because a normal person carrying tons of weapons wouldn't make sense and would draw even more attention) to make things more realistic...

That's a great idea, love it! Basically you should be able to choose whatever disguise u want like u describe, by knocking people unconcious. That would be briliant.

And also choose gadgets/weapons dependng on mission type. Hidden blades and some smokebombs should do the trick for these infiltration missions (for example). The rest u could leave at the base.

Your suggetions would be a great and fairly easily implemented solution! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

harm civilians to get their clothes wouldn't be cool but we should be able to get civilian clothes at the assassin's dens for example.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or steal them at the brothels http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Sushiglutton
09-11-2011, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Altair661:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sushiglutton:
And also choose gadgets/weapons dependng on mission type. Hidden blades and some smokebombs should do the trick for these infiltration missions (for example). The rest u could leave at the base.
QUOTE]

What they need to do is limit your amount of weapons/items you can hold. Instead of having ALL of your weapons on you all the time. Maybe even make a weight system. Or just limit the weapon wheel to 4 items(not counintg hidden blade) so you'd have to choose between your sword, gun, bombs, crossbow, etc. Or make it where the more weapons you hold, the more noritey you'll have and the faster they'll notice you.

I'm not a huge fan of that tbh. Ofc it's unrealistic, but it's also sort of convenient to have all ur gadgets ready. So I would't like to remove them from normal missions (even if customization should be allowed). It's just that it looks so stupid in these blend type missions.

dxsxhxcx
09-11-2011, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Altair661:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sushiglutton:
And also choose gadgets/weapons dependng on mission type. Hidden blades and some smokebombs should do the trick for these infiltration missions (for example). The rest u could leave at the base.


What they need to do is limit your amount of weapons/items you can hold. Instead of having ALL of your weapons on you all the time. Maybe even make a weight system. Or just limit the weapon wheel to 4 items(not counintg hidden blade) so you'd have to choose between your sword, gun, bombs, crossbow, etc. Or make it where the more weapons you hold, the more noritey you'll have and the faster they'll notice you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe the hidden gun is attached to the hidden blade so it wouldn't be possible to remove it...

Samuel032593
09-11-2011, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Altair661:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sushiglutton:
And also choose gadgets/weapons dependng on mission type. Hidden blades and some smokebombs should do the trick for these infiltration missions (for example). The rest u could leave at the base.
QUOTE]
What they need to do is limit your amount of weapons/items you can hold. Instead of having ALL of your weapons on you all the time. Maybe even make a weight system. Or just limit the weapon wheel to 4 items(not counintg hidden blade) so you'd have to choose between your sword, gun, bombs, crossbow, etc. Or make it where the more weapons you hold, the more noritey you'll have and the faster they'll notice you.

I know. I love how in full, very heavy fabric on top of heavy armor, Ezio can swim just fine, and run around just fine, and fight just fine, like he's not even wearing it. They're should be impediments based on weight unless you have some kind of special training for it or a perk or something along those lines. A weight system would fill in nicely there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LightRey
09-11-2011, 03:01 PM
Why would you kill a guard? There are courtesans right around the corner.

Sushiglutton
09-11-2011, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
Why would you kill a guard? There are courtesans right around the corner.

True, but there's a tip popping up saying that "dead bodies attract guards" (or something like that), so it's the solution they thought of (and it works). However that's beside the point.

blazefp
09-11-2011, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Sushiglutton:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
Why would you kill a guard? There are courtesans right around the corner.

True, but there's a tip popping up saying that "dead bodies attract guards" (or something like that), so it's the solution they thought of (and it works). However that's beside the point. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Plus there is one guard there that can be killed with the bricks from the lift and that isn't just pretty amazing but also helps you with one of the thieves or mercenaries missions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

@Sushiglutton I agree with every single word of the OP

donngold
09-11-2011, 08:46 PM
I like even more how they leave the corpse there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

LightRey
09-11-2011, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by blazefp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sushiglutton:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
Why would you kill a guard? There are courtesans right around the corner.

True, but there's a tip popping up saying that "dead bodies attract guards" (or something like that), so it's the solution they thought of (and it works). However that's beside the point. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Plus there is one guard there that can be killed with the bricks from the lift and that isn't just pretty amazing but also helps you with one of the thieves or mercenaries missions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

@Sushiglutton I agree with every single word of the OP </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, but that kill isn't as immersion-breaking since it can be considered an accident by the other guards.

iN3krO
09-12-2011, 06:42 AM
Originally posted by AnthonyA85:
I have to admit, i kind of agree with the OP

I mean, they didn't have to rewrite the civilian AI for ACB and AC2, but they did, and as a consequence, made the Civies as gormless and stupid as the guards.

The Civilian/Crowd AI in AC1 was perfect. Kill a guard in front of a crowd (or throw him from the rooftops) and the Civies run screaming bloody murder, but in AC2 and AC2, the just walk past, look and say "oh look, a body", the histerical screaming and panicing is something i've missed since AC1

I still didn't say enough? Ac1 was a game that aimed to be realistic (at least that's what it seemed) but now Ac2 and AcB is following the "crowd" or if i can say it better, the kids, and making a fantasy game.
The game changed for Assassins vs Templars to Warlord vs EverythingWithWeapons.

Every guard is looking for u as if they were templars of Ac1. In ac1 normal guards would make yellow eye appear in the status bar and the templars patrols the red eye but now everything would be yellow when you are unnotorious and red when notourious...

Civilians should be a better version of ac1 and not a dumbed down one. As i stated in other topics, there should be more notorious levels and diffrent notorious bars for civilians and guards and templars. each one would act diffrent. If you kill a templar (a boss?) your templar notorious would incrense, if you kill a bunch of guards in front of everyone ur civilian and guard notorious would incrense... if you try to avoid act in public and kill guards your civilian notorious should descrense (over time). If you have civilian notorious ZERO and you kill someone bad in the city (like when you kill the merchant leader or wtf he is in venice in ac2) your civilian notorious would go under ZERO and civilians would often help you. If you can get your civilian notorious even lower, they would help you to get guards help.

If you decide to be a warlord, every civilian would go call a guard if they see you (if i'm in the street and i see someone that is WANTED i would inmedeatly call the cops -.-).

I could say more and more about how it would be but ubisoft will never include this.. Instead of improving the combat with more balanced feratures, no, they just changed the animations so those who says combat is now boring be more happy seeing the new animations -.-'

Ubisoft treats us as stupid ppl and you all let they do it.

I've said enough and i'm for 1 year already saying always the same thing over and over, you know what i have got? banned for 1 week.

This is what ubisoft does if you try to make ppl see what the game is becoming trying to make them understand why the game had become a piece of ***** since ac1.

Ac1 was a game bad executed but all the features were balanced.

Ac2 and AcB were well executed but almost every new feature is umbalanced and old nice balanced features were removed.

ProdiGurl
09-12-2011, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by Altair661:
Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that it's a videogame. It can't and won't be perfect. I have always thought about how they don't notice him when he has his entire arsenal on him. Revelations seems to fix that a little. You can't really notice him as much, because he doesnt have weapons all over him. But I can understand where you come from. But hey, it's just a videogame. It'll have some problems and the AI isn't the best.

Exactly. I just really like killing the bad guys and as long as Ezio looks kool doing that & I have some challenge doing it, I'm content.

I agree that Ezio blends in alot more in ACR w/ his outfit. I wonder if we'll be able to go to the Tailor & do some dye jobbing?

ProdiGurl
09-12-2011, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AnthonyA85:
I have to admit, i kind of agree with the OP

I mean, they didn't have to rewrite the civilian AI for ACB and AC2, but they did, and as a consequence, made the Civies as gormless and stupid as the guards.

The Civilian/Crowd AI in AC1 was perfect. Kill a guard in front of a crowd (or throw him from the rooftops) and the Civies run screaming bloody murder, but in AC2 and AC2, the just walk past, look and say "oh look, a body", the histerical screaming and panicing is something i've missed since AC1

I still didn't say enough? Ac1 was a game that aimed to be realistic (at least that's what it seemed) but now Ac2 and AcB is following the "crowd" or if i can say it better, the kids, and making a fantasy game.
The game changed for Assassins vs Templars to Warlord vs EverythingWithWeapons.

Every guard is looking for u as if they were templars of Ac1. In ac1 normal guards would make yellow eye appear in the status bar and the templars patrols the red eye but now everything would be yellow when you are unnotorious and red when notourious...

Civilians should be a better version of ac1 and not a dumbed down one. As i stated in other topics, there should be more notorious levels and diffrent notorious bars for civilians and guards and templars. each one would act diffrent. If you kill a templar (a boss?) your templar notorious would incrense, if you kill a bunch of guards in front of everyone ur civilian and guard notorious would incrense... if you try to avoid act in public and kill guards your civilian notorious should descrense (over time). If you have civilian notorious ZERO and you kill someone bad in the city (like when you kill the merchant leader or wtf he is in venice in ac2) your civilian notorious would go under ZERO and civilians would often help you. If you can get your civilian notorious even lower, they would help you to get guards help.

If you decide to be a warlord, every civilian would go call a guard if they see you (if i'm in the street and i see someone that is WANTED i would inmedeatly call the cops -.-).

I could say more and more about how it would be but ubisoft will never include this.. Instead of improving the combat with more balanced feratures, no, they just changed the animations so those who says combat is now boring be more happy seeing the new animations -.-'

Ubisoft treats us as stupid ppl and you all let they do it.

I've said enough and i'm for 1 year already saying always the same thing over and over, you know what i have got? banned for 1 week.

This is what ubisoft does if you try to make ppl see what the game is becoming trying to make them understand why the game had become a piece of ***** since ac1.

Ac1 was a game bad executed but all the features were balanced.

Ac2 and AcB were well executed but almost every new feature is umbalanced and old nice balanced features were removed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since I never played AC1 yet, I don't know how it was. I like AC2 & ACB in different ways for different things.
I'll eventually play AC1 & finally meet Altair. But your post makes sense and I do understand your gripes. I do agree there are unrealistic things going on & I really like your ideas about the Notoriety system.
Makes good sense to me.

I love the series & will hate to see Ezio go. The next AC after ACR will make or break it for me w/out him in it.

I'm a little concerned about some things I see in the ACR demo's, but I'm going to wait & see what the final product is.

crash3
09-12-2011, 03:53 PM
I agree with the AI being really dumb, I hate the yellow arrows above guards heads that gradually fill up and you can easily see when they are going to attack, it's to robotic, what happened to the aggressive guards in AC1 who attacked you on sight? They need to be brought back

Guards need to recognise you quicker and attack you faster and spend more time trying to seek you out once you have fled

Ulicies
09-12-2011, 04:10 PM
I lol'd at your third paragraph. But yeah, the NPC's have grown really apathetic toward dead guards ever since AC2, unfortunately... Guards and civilians should completely freak out and scour the area as soon as they find any sort of thing. Right now though, any sort of cover is too open to design the AI like that.

dxsxhxcx
09-12-2011, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by crash3:
what happened to the aggressive guards in AC1 who attacked you on sight?

it seems Altair killed them all don't giving them a chance to create a lineage of great soldiers for the next games... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif




Guards need to recognise you quicker and attack you faster and spend more time trying to seek you out once you have fled

it would be interesting if once we start a battle, if we try to escape the guards (or let a guard alive after the battle) instead of kill them, our notoriety in that region would be always high for some time making the guards attack us on sight once they see us, but for this to work is necessary to improve the enemy AI (or combat behavior) and increase the damage dealt by them to make a escape necessary sometimes because at the current state there's no need to run from them...

Voltige2011
09-13-2011, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crash3:
what happened to the aggressive guards in AC1 who attacked you on sight?

it seems Altair killed them all don't giving them a chance to create a lineage of great soldiers for the next games... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif




Guards need to recognise you quicker and attack you faster and spend more time trying to seek you out once you have fled

it would be interesting if once we start a battle, if we try to escape the guards (or let a guard alive after the battle) instead of kill them, our notoriety in that region would be always high for some time making the guards attack us on sight once they see us, but for this to work is necessary to improve the enemy AI (or combat behavior) and increase the damage dealt by them to make a escape necessary sometimes because at the current state there's no need to run from them... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you noticed the few number of actual NPCs with survivability? Cesare, and war machine overseers are the only ones who survive continuous attacks with any weapon. if you take out a hidden blade, grab somebody, knock them over, you automatically kill them if you attack again. Hit somebody a minimum of 3 times you auto-kill them. Do a disarm and just tapping the weapon hand button slaughters them. Then we get millions more ways of murder.
Just hope this game has them at least working together instead of using the same logic that people use in movies(attack one by one if you have a massively overwhelming group, just to have a pile of corpses, and run off crying.)

Calvarok
09-13-2011, 10:38 PM
You're forgetting how common it was to carry weapons, and for religious officials and nobles to have specially trained (and armed) bodyguards.

As for the whole thing with the guards going back to normal, you have no idea how difficult it would be to program scripted routes and exits for every single AI in the area. and to do that for every mission? And FREE ROAM? Guards investigate the body, and then they actively search for you in blend spots and hide places. Sure they reset afterwards. What else can they do? They aren't going to call for help, if guards never called for help in the memory when they saw a dead body. If you noticed, some memories rely on guards not finding bodies or desynch. The animus is not a perfect simulation. It's patchy.

LightRey
09-14-2011, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by Calvarok:
You're forgetting how common it was to carry weapons, and for religious officials and nobles to have specially trained (and armed) bodyguards.

As for the whole thing with the guards going back to normal, you have no idea how difficult it would be to program scripted routes and exits for every single AI in the area. and to do that for every mission? And FREE ROAM? Guards investigate the body, and then they actively search for you in blend spots and hide places. Sure they reset afterwards. What else can they do? They aren't going to call for help, if guards never called for help in the memory when they saw a dead body. If you noticed, some memories rely on guards not finding bodies or desynch. The animus is not a perfect simulation. It's patchy.
Exactly. The game might be (in part) about realism, but the animus is just built to get from memory point A to memory point B as easily as possible.

Sushiglutton
09-14-2011, 06:42 AM
Originally posted by Calvarok:
You're forgetting how common it was to carry weapons, and for religious officials and nobles to have specially trained (and armed) bodyguards.

Well I still think Ezio is looking a tiny bit suspicious http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.


As for the whole thing with the guards going back to normal, you have no idea how difficult it would be to program scripted routes and exits for every single AI in the area. and to do that for every mission? And FREE ROAM? Guards investigate the body, and then they actively search for you in blend spots and hide places. Sure they reset afterwards. What else can they do? They aren't going to call for help, if guards never called for help in the memory when they saw a dead body. If you noticed, some memories rely on guards not finding bodies or desynch. The animus is not a perfect simulation. It's patchy.

Yes I understand it's difficult. In most misions the way soldiers act works ok for me (even though it's not super realistic), but in some cases it's just too silly to ignore. And like I said when that happens I get pulled out of the experience.

I think Ubi should do what they can to prevent it. Solutions could be adding disguises for more missons (especially the ones in which u're supposed to blend with a crowd), or perhaps rewriting them so that they play out in a less silly fashion. I'm not asking the impossible here.

dxsxhxcx
09-14-2011, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by Calvarok:
You're forgetting how common it was to carry weapons, and for religious officials and nobles to have specially trained (and armed) bodyguards.

As for the whole thing with the guards going back to normal, you have no idea how difficult it would be to program scripted routes and exits for every single AI in the area. and to do that for every mission? And FREE ROAM? Guards investigate the body, and then they actively search for you in blend spots and hide places. Sure they reset afterwards. What else can they do? They aren't going to call for help, if guards never called for help in the memory when they saw a dead body. If you noticed, some memories rely on guards not finding bodies or desynch. The animus is not a perfect simulation. It's patchy.

just because something may be difficult to implement doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, and IMO use the animus as excuse is not valid, by agreeing with this (blame the animus for everything wrong this game has) you're just giving them a reason to not improve some aspects of the game and blame the animus for everything other people (and maybe you, in the future) might think that should be improved...


IMO if a guard find a dead body, they should call for help and make that area (or district) around the dead body have more guards than any other for some time, and depending of what guard we kill (if it's one in the middle of the street for example, with other people seeing us), they should ask these people if they saw something and sometimes, based on what they saw (they would give a description of what we look like), the guards should become more suspicious about us and raise one level or 2 in our notoriety meter...

LightRey
09-14-2011, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
You're forgetting how common it was to carry weapons, and for religious officials and nobles to have specially trained (and armed) bodyguards.

As for the whole thing with the guards going back to normal, you have no idea how difficult it would be to program scripted routes and exits for every single AI in the area. and to do that for every mission? And FREE ROAM? Guards investigate the body, and then they actively search for you in blend spots and hide places. Sure they reset afterwards. What else can they do? They aren't going to call for help, if guards never called for help in the memory when they saw a dead body. If you noticed, some memories rely on guards not finding bodies or desynch. The animus is not a perfect simulation. It's patchy.

just because something may be difficult to implement doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, and IMO use the animus as excuse is not valid, by agreeing with this (blame the animus for everything wrong this game has) you're just giving them a reason to not improve some aspects of the game and blame the animus for everything other people (and maybe you, in the future) might think that should be improved...


IMO if a guard find a dead body, they should call for help and make that area (or district) around the dead body have more guards than any other for some time, and depending of what guard we kill (if it's one in the middle of the street for example, with other people seeing us), they should ask these people if they saw something and sometimes, based on what they saw (they would give a description of what we look like), the guards should become more suspicious about us and raise one level or 2 in our notoriety meter... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If it's not a big deal to the general AC player, then it's not a big deal to Ubisoft. They have their priorities and the whims of us "hardcore fans" aren't (and shouldn't be) at the top of their list.

Jexx21
09-14-2011, 10:10 AM
Besides, I don't think that consoles could be able to handle to amount of power and RAM that the game would require to be able to have all that stuff in one package.

I'm not even sure about a top-line PC.

So it's not just ridiculously hard, it's an impossibility.

Yes, all gaming platforms have limits at the moment. :P

dxsxhxcx
09-14-2011, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Jexx21:
Besides, I don't think that consoles could be able to handle to amount of power and RAM that the game would require to be able to have all that stuff in one package.

I'm not even sure about a top-line PC.

So it's not just ridiculously hard, it's an impossibility.

Yes, all gaming platforms have limits at the moment. :P

they at least could bring back (with some improvements) the enemy behavior the guards in AC1 had together with the damage they used to deal and improve the combat system a little to fit with the current mechanics we have (killstreak, new weapons, etc), I don't think they need to wait the next generation of consoles to do that...

some people here just want to have the challenge they used to have in AC1 (I know it wasn't much, but at least IMO was better than what we have now) together with all the nice things they added in AC2/ACB and will add in ACR...

LightRey
09-14-2011, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jexx21:
Besides, I don't think that consoles could be able to handle to amount of power and RAM that the game would require to be able to have all that stuff in one package.

I'm not even sure about a top-line PC.

So it's not just ridiculously hard, it's an impossibility.

Yes, all gaming platforms have limits at the moment. :P

they at least could bring back (with some improvements) the enemy behavior the guards in AC1 had together with the damage they used to deal and improve the combat system a little to fit with the current mechanics we have (killstreak, new weapons, etc), I don't think they need to wait the next generation of consoles to do that...

some people here just want to have the challenge they used to have in AC1 (I know it wasn't much, but at least IMO was better than what we have now) together with all the nice things they added in AC2/ACB and will add in ACR... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you kidding? The only thing the guards in AC1 could do that the ones in AC2 and ACB can't is guard break. The AI itself is pathetic compared to the ACB AI.

Jexx21
09-14-2011, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jexx21:
Besides, I don't think that consoles could be able to handle to amount of power and RAM that the game would require to be able to have all that stuff in one package.

I'm not even sure about a top-line PC.

So it's not just ridiculously hard, it's an impossibility.

Yes, all gaming platforms have limits at the moment. :P

they at least could bring back (with some improvements) the enemy behavior the guards in AC1 had together with the damage they used to deal and improve the combat system a little to fit with the current mechanics we have (killstreak, new weapons, etc), I don't think they need to wait the next generation of consoles to do that...

some people here just want to have the challenge they used to have in AC1 (I know it wasn't much, but at least IMO was better than what we have now) together with all the nice things they added in AC2/ACB and will add in ACR... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

AC1 had no real challenge, and was tedious most of the time. AC2 improved on combat a lot, sure, it was easier, but at least it was fun. ACB made the AC2 combat faster, but it was also harder than AC2. Which are both good things.

LightRey
09-15-2011, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by Jexx21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jexx21:
Besides, I don't think that consoles could be able to handle to amount of power and RAM that the game would require to be able to have all that stuff in one package.

I'm not even sure about a top-line PC.

So it's not just ridiculously hard, it's an impossibility.

Yes, all gaming platforms have limits at the moment. :P

they at least could bring back (with some improvements) the enemy behavior the guards in AC1 had together with the damage they used to deal and improve the combat system a little to fit with the current mechanics we have (killstreak, new weapons, etc), I don't think they need to wait the next generation of consoles to do that...

some people here just want to have the challenge they used to have in AC1 (I know it wasn't much, but at least IMO was better than what we have now) together with all the nice things they added in AC2/ACB and will add in ACR... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

AC1 had no real challenge, and was tedious most of the time. AC2 improved on combat a lot, sure, it was easier, but at least it was fun. ACB made the AC2 combat faster, but it was also harder than AC2. Which are both good things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Very true.

CRUDFACE
09-15-2011, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by Jexx21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jexx21:
Besides, I don't think that consoles could be able to handle to amount of power and RAM that the game would require to be able to have all that stuff in one package.

I'm not even sure about a top-line PC.

So it's not just ridiculously hard, it's an impossibility.

Yes, all gaming platforms have limits at the moment. :P

they at least could bring back (with some improvements) the enemy behavior the guards in AC1 had together with the damage they used to deal and improve the combat system a little to fit with the current mechanics we have (killstreak, new weapons, etc), I don't think they need to wait the next generation of consoles to do that...

some people here just want to have the challenge they used to have in AC1 (I know it wasn't much, but at least IMO was better than what we have now) together with all the nice things they added in AC2/ACB and will add in ACR... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

AC1 had no real challenge, and was tedious most of the time. AC2 improved on combat a lot, sure, it was easier, but at least it was fun. ACB made the AC2 combat faster, but it was also harder than AC2. Which are both good things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, in AC2+, the guards couldn't hurt you as much, their counterattacks didn't do any damage. And the "special" guards such as the brute and seeker could always just get unarmed easily. In ACB I never once brought a new weapon in a playthrough, killstreaks just make it look prettier. AC 2+ just seem like that because the game overall became more versatile, which I enjoyed. Combat as a strategic option isn't equal int he slightest to stealth.

then again, AC has always had balance issues http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

On AC1, they did real damage, you couldn't heal, the guards could go into a chain combo where some of their attacks were unblockable and you couldn't just finish them off in seconds, alongside the enemies in AC1 having more health. Ooh, the guards there throw sand? Please, they never take advantage of it and might as well be handing you a towel to wipe your face with.

Personally, I think they should just combine the two.

dxsxhxcx
09-15-2011, 07:58 AM
they should change how the medicine works, in AC1 we didn't had medicine and our health only regenerate when we aren't in the middle of a fight, if we use medicine, it should heal us SLOWLY over time and during a battle, instead of almost completely heal us at once, this should be something that only happens when we go to see a doctor..



Originally posted by t260z:
Personally, I think they should just combine the two.

that's what I want, both combat styles have good and bad points, but if we combine the two we'll be able to have everything good both styles can provide...

CRUDFACE
09-15-2011, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
they should change how the medicine works, in AC1 we didn't had medicine and our health only regenerate when we aren't in the middle of a fight, if we use medicine, it should heal us SLOWLY over time and during a battle, instead of almost completely heal us at once, this should be something that only happens when we go to see a doctor..

Plus it's unrealistic. the way Ezio heals in ACR looked so stupid. It's like time sped up only around Ezio, even in Brotherhood he had to take a back seat from fighting for a while to do all that.

Broken ribs, bruising, bleeding (possibly internally) all healed in one to two seconds, lol. Medicine made me reckless in this game.