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XyZspineZyX
05-10-2003, 07:55 AM
I have blessed us with an official title; now it's up to Oleg to make good on our beloved Butcher Bird.
Anyone who feels that the shortcomings of the Fw-190 should have a very high priority in the heirarchy of patches, let his voice be heard. We are the Wurgerwhiners and we WILL be heard!

(but the Dora and the F8 are already pretty bad A$$)
:0)

Chris

PS I love this sim more every day!

XyZspineZyX
05-10-2003, 07:55 AM
I have blessed us with an official title; now it's up to Oleg to make good on our beloved Butcher Bird.
Anyone who feels that the shortcomings of the Fw-190 should have a very high priority in the heirarchy of patches, let his voice be heard. We are the Wurgerwhiners and we WILL be heard!

(but the Dora and the F8 are already pretty bad A$$)
:0)

Chris

PS I love this sim more every day!

XyZspineZyX
05-11-2003, 04:36 PM
Hear, hear! We demand a reworked 190 cockpit, historical climbrate and good highspeed maneuverability!

Once more into the breach my friends!



Demolisher, proud Wurgerwhiner

"That elephant ate my entire platoon"

XyZspineZyX
05-11-2003, 04:56 PM
Free beer and chicken!

XyZspineZyX
05-11-2003, 07:54 PM
A Whirlwind on your six /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"Whirlwind Whiner"
The First of the Few

XyZspineZyX
05-11-2003, 09:19 PM
Damn thread hijackers../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
05-11-2003, 10:00 PM
Some good reading /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.pbase.com/chrisdnt/190_tests

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
05-11-2003, 10:17 PM
That's some very interesting reading, CHDT. I especially liked this part:

"The initial rate of climb when pulling up from level flight at fast cruising speed..(unreadable).. and from a dive is phenomenal"

And "...very maneueverable..."

It also mentions that the 190 held a nose-down attitude in flight. Almost everything I've read about the 190 says the same thing, and I think it's important enough to be modelled.

"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
05-11-2003, 10:23 PM
The FW-190 definitley needs some tweaking to the FM.

All- Elevator deflection at speeds higher than 400kph.

D series- Why does the '44 Dora seem to turn sharper than the '45 Dora?

The resaon I play a flight SIMULATOR is to simulate real life aircraft characteristics, and have fun. I would much rather see the Flight Model bugs fixed on the current aircraft set fixed, than see more aircraft added as flyable in the upcoming patch(s).


CARBONFREEZE
Wurgerwhiner as of 1:24pm 5-11-03

XyZspineZyX
05-11-2003, 10:32 PM
Well...Im on your bandwagon guys...im getting tired of flying the "flying Zippo" ( BF109) and could be nice to have a correctly modelled FW190...right FM, exact Climb rate, correct maneouverability and a photo realistic cockpit, (and being able to use the historically correct techniques like diving inverted without being outdived by a I16!!!)

on a lighter note I would love to have also the 109 damage model corrected...I dont recall reading anywhere that the 109 exploded so easily when hit by non explosive/incendiary ammo...if it was the truth...wouldnt the jerry had it corrected after the first versions?

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/Pawnee1995.jpg

A man and his Messerschmitt..its a beautiful thing
[B]Burning Avgas at alarming rates since 1990. [B]
<G>Visit http://www.aopa.org<G>

XyZspineZyX
05-11-2003, 10:54 PM
The '44 D9 cetainly seems to have more "oomph" than the '45 Dora.

Something far worse is the elevator authority at high speeds. This is not just historically incorrect, it also cripples the 190 series as B'n'Z fighters.

Bring on the Patch!

"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
05-11-2003, 10:55 PM
Roger to that...The FW is terrible.....It canÔ┬┤t climb and almost every other aircraft of the same year can out run it in most situation as the FW never gets the chance of being on higher altitude than enemy.....To be honest...I am gettting tired of this game. Most because my own bad skills, but also due to the fact that this game wasnÔ┬┤t ready for release when they released it.

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 12:53 AM
Here's my two cents. Totally agree.

Outclimbed by a hurricane! Shame!



<center>http://www.brooksart.com/KnightsX.jpg </center>
<center>See - Decide - Attack - Break

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 01:30 AM
Gents,
So do we get a neato logo like the WhirlyWhiners?

Bussard.


Ich bin auch ein W├╝rgerWhiner!!!

I can save it,I got it,I g...

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 03:17 AM
WurgerWhiners of the world.. Unite!

In accordance to J.F. Kennedy's famous words, spoken on his visit to Berlin: "Ich bin ein WurgerWhiner!"

And on another occasion: "We are going to fly the Wurger and demand it to be modelled correctly, not because it is easy, but because it is hard!"

Amen!
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XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 04:08 AM
Don't hold your breath. IMO, the cockpit problem will never be fixed. Oleg has said that repeatedly. The Ta-152 will have the same problem by the looks of the screenshot.

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 05:40 AM
Maybe, maybe not. But there's certainly hope for the clipped elevator to get fixed.

Besides, what are you suggesting exactly? That we should just lay down and die?

Well, that certainly isn't going to help much.
&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];};var YourPicName='http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/Me262Kill.gif'; var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName;o.height=81;o.width=92</script>

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 06:00 AM
Really, I don't care about the elevators. Until I can see over the nose well enough to make a deflection shot, they won't do any good unless I'm trying to outmanuver an attacker - which is suicide against any late war Russian plane. And I can't outrun anything with the 190 over 3km, or under it for that matter. And the 190 is slated to get a max speed decrease in the patch. Yay.

But Oleg has stated that the cockpit won't change, regardless how how wrong his version is. I've totally given up hope, since it looks like he repeated the errors with the Ta-152.

The wierdest thing about all of this is that the Fw-190 is Oleg's favorite WWII aircraft.

But...why I'm advising that you don't get your hopes up is that he didn't fix it in the Il-2 patches, he didn't fix it in FB....

It ain't getting fixed.

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 06:14 AM
- It ain't getting fixed.

Is your name Oleg Maddox? No?

Then you can't answer that question, can you.

As for the fact you don't care much for the elevator.. most Fw190 adepts do. Me included.

In fact, I call myself a WurgerWhiner now *because* of the clipped elevator.

I have learned to live with the view from that pit.

But I will never learn to live with a clipped elevator *as well*. This is a new phenomenon that appeared only in FB so far. So, the bet is still on on that one and nothing is decided yet on that particular FM aspect.

But I'll tell you this: Oleg also said he expected MORE ppl to be flying the 190 online in FB, because of it's improved armour. Well, it doesn't look like this is going to happen. In fact LESS ppl are flying this machine online now.

Perhaps that will get him into thinking about WHY that might be the case. Nothing has been decided yet.

&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];};var YourPicName='http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/Me262Kill.gif'; var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName;o.height=81;o.width=92</script>

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 06:19 AM
Well, if it does, I'll be pleasantly suprised http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 06:54 AM
Is it me, or does one shot of anythign take off the wing? The body of the 190 is a tank, but I keep losing my wings/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

--lbhkilla--

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/FW190.jpg .

"Verloren ist nur, wer sich selbst aufgibt"

"We could do with some of those razor blades, Herr Reichsmarshall."
When Erwin Rommel that British fighter-bombers had shot up my tanks with 40mm shells, the Hermann G├┬Âring who felt himself touched by this, said: "That's completely impossible. The Americans only know how to make razor blades." and the above was Rommels reply.

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 07:15 AM
lbhskier37 wrote:
- Is it me, or does one shot of anythign take off the
- wing? The body of the 190 is a tank, but I keep
- losing my wings

It's not just you. It happens to me more often than not. LaGGs and Yaks take more punishment than a Wurger. Perhaps it was historically correct/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

http://members.chello.se/unni/Ta152C.jpg


'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 07:16 AM
I sure wish it was corrected...
In Heinz Nowarras excellent book Fw190 + Ta152 they say that Dora could outclimb and outrun allmost every plane and it could outturn the previous Fw190 models. Though it had to sacrifice it's heavy armament to be able to do this. But anyway... because there are some superior allied (including Russian) planes, why couldn't there be a superior (but one with realistic FM) german plane like 190

Regards

SheerLuck Holmes

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 08:42 AM
Im into il-2 (two weeks ago; after flying around in some eyehurting simmies, i bought it), and hereÔ┬┤s my fresh point of view:

THIS PLANE IS UNDERPOWERED!

~Wurgerwhiner~


:: Zieh erst wenn Du richtig Stoff drauf hast! ::

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 08:55 AM
Lol, Airborn!

"We are going to fly the
Wurger and demand it to be modelled correctly, not
because it is easy, but because it is hard!"

Nice one...

I also agree that the elevator bug is the one thing that absolutely must be fixed or the 190 will be a second class fighter.

"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 09:00 AM
Bussard, if the Whirly boys can have their own logo, so can we. Any volunteers to make us one?

In the meantime I suggest anyone agreeing with our glorious /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif cause include "Ich bin ein wurgerwhiner" or something similar in their sig.

Over and out.

"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 10:17 AM
B U M P

"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 10:33 AM
I'm in guys...

The first Wurgerwiner Eurotroll.

Nic

http://nicolas10.freeservers.com/images/et.jpg


<center>7/10 Troll Rating from SmokeJaguar well that's two more pts than before... woohoo!

<center>8.3/10 Troll Rating from USAFHelos

<center>9.0/10 Troll Rating from Icarus999

<center>10/10 Troll Rating from Surlybirch

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 10:43 AM
1. Climb rate ^^
2. Overall Performance on alts other than 0m and 3175-3400m (depending on type - charger jump /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ))
3. KOMMANDOGERË×T!!! Autopitch pls /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif - just like in Dora.
4. That forward view..... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
5. High speed (respectively 450+ kph) elevator range ^^
6. Ammo counters (they should show only wing guns)
7. Ammo counts (should be 250 in inner wing guns in A-5+ and 90 in outer wing guns in A-5; Dora's way too much 13mm bullets)
8. Dive - it should not break, rather no accelleration @ certain speed.


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%;filter:glow[color=#33CCFF,strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

&lt;script>var specwin=window;function openspecs(){specwin=window.open("http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/specs.htm", "specs", "hotkeys=0,width=640,height=480,left=64,top=64,scro llbars=yes");}</script>Die olle Rechenkiste vom noch olleren Willey (java_script: openspecs[))

<font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">Seit &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("March 20, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*-24));document.write(count);</script> Tagen<sup>*</sup> gibts Il-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
BTW: In &lt;script>var eventdate=new Date("May 17, 2003 00:00:00 GMT");d=new Date();count=Math.floor((eventdate.getTime()-d.getTime())/1000);count=Math.floor(count/(60*60*24));document.write(count);</script> Tag(en) gibt's das n├┬Ąchste Development Update von Oleg Maddox, wenn alles schiefl├┬Ąuft /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<font size="1"><sup>*</sup> In Europa . In den USA gabs FB schon 16 Tage vorher am 4.3. Link (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkyee)</font></font></p>&lt;script>c0="#000000";c1="#400000";c2="#000040";c3="#000050";c4="#000060";c5="#000070";a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-3].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-4].bgColor=c2;if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor=c3;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-9].bgColor=c5;}else{a[a.length-5].bgColor=c0;a[a.length-6].bgColor=c1;a[a.length-7].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c5;};image="http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/bar.jpg";oa=a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundImage="url("+image+")";oa.backgroundPosition="left center";oa.backgroundRepeat="no-repeat";</script><font color=000040>

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 10:52 AM
"8. Dive - it should not break"


I agree at 103% /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Yes, the 190A begins to lose its elevators or ailerons at about 840km/h TAS.

In real life, vibrations began to appear on the 190A only around 860km/h. At that speed, it was advised to fire only with the fuselage machine guns. So the aircraft was still managable at this speed and probably a little bit further!

I hope that this will be corrected in the first patch!

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 11:14 AM
I concur. Wurger was one of the toughest birdies in the sky! It should not break from a single 20mm shot(happened to me yesterday!)
It was able to outdive the russian planes(except for a shot down MiG-3 or IL-2)


Actually, reccomended tactics for escaping from a La-5 was a highspeed dive, followed by flat climb.(that's what I've read.)

We have nothing to do with any forms of whining, agression and unsatisfiction with Oleg, 1C Maddox Games and their Brilliant products FB and IL-2. all we want is to have our A*ses not blown out of the sky by the snipers on the Ships.



~Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner~


IC Ankanor, Defender of the TRUTH/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif S!

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 11:50 AM
Where do I sign up?

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 01:59 PM
JZG_Kaiser: You sign up here. Just include "Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner" in your sig.

And I agree that the vulnerability of the wings on the 190 is also suspicious, IMHO, it's easier to take off the wing of the 190 than to do the same thing to a Yak...





"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 03:03 PM
I'm in /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ... but it would be more correct to call us "W├╝rgerwhiners" or "Wuergerwhiners" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

-------------------
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III/JG51_Atzebrueck

JG51 (http://www.jg51.de)
Virtual Online War (http://www.s-driess.de/vow/index.php?page=home&section=home)

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 03:12 PM
Signature corrected /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"Ich bin ein W├╝rgerwhiner"

Message Edited on 05/12/0302:13PM by Demolisher_

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 04:07 PM
Well gentlemen,
Thanks to the fact that the forum has been boinked up, I havn't been able to visit my own thread till now- and I see that lots of people share my enthusiasm for a reworked FW FM. I also see that the name I devised for our movement, "wurgerwhiner" is a success! Finally I have contributed to the community!
A couple of thoughts:

1) The Fw190F8 is actually a pretty deadly bird <as is>
since she zoom climbs quite well. You have to see it to believe it, because her elevator acts like it's stuck in cement just like all the other Fockes. BUT-
The actual amount of altitude she gains in a zoom climb is enough to get the drop on anything, Yaks, I-16, I-153, P-51, etc. Post your e-mail addy if you wanna see tracks.

2) Much adieu (sp?) about the cockpit forward view. Here is a cheat to work around it that I use: (b4 you flame me, remember that I do 90% of my flying OFFLINE, and that the AI cheats constantly by being able to see through clouds, their own plane, easy FM etc. OK?)

...............anyway, the "cheat" is that I have a Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar ("kitty") that, among all it's
other attributes, has a 2 stage programmable trigger.
I have programmed it to emulate 3 key presses in the first press of the first stage : CONTROL F1 twice, PageDown. Upon release, it emulates the same sequence again.What this does is to put me in cockpit off mode, zoomed all the way in in gunsight view mode, ONLY WHEN I'M ABOUT TO FIRE which I do by squeezing the trigger the rest of the way (stage 2) When I release he trigger, I'm back in cockpit on mode. It all happens in a couple of seconds, but it gives a beautiful unclutterd and magnified view of the target before firing. No good on Full Real servers I realize, but an offline workaround to let me practice with the 190F8. Works great!

PS I beleive it is "AIRBORNE" who has given us our motto, "Ich bin ein Wugerwhiner". I LOVE IT! And the fact that in proper German it would be "Ich bin Wurgerwhiner" makes it all the better!

"Let Focke-Wulf loving peoples that world over come to play "Forgotten battles" and they too shall say,
"ICH BIN EIN WURGERWHINER!"
:0)
Chris

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 04:35 PM
- "ICH BIN EIN WURGERWHINER!"
- :0)
- Chris

How about:

--
Joques
Ich bin ein W├╝rgerwiener

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 05:12 PM
Chris455

Note that it was I who came up with "Ich bin ein w├╝rgerwhiner" Credit where credit is due /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

BTW, you're right about the the F8. I've tested it in the QMB and found it to me more agile at high speeds than it's pure fighter counterparts, the A8 and the A9. IIRC, the F8 had a few hundred kg worth of extra armor, so why the noticeable difference in favor of the F8? Maybe they accidentally switched FMs /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I don't have a programmable stick, so I can't try the "cheat". Nowadays I mostly play online anyway. It's just too bad that 190 pilots feel that they have to do things like that just to get an idea of what's happening in front of the plane.



Long live the Butcherbird!



"Ich bin ein W├╝rgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 05:19 PM
S! Unite!

--lbhkilla--

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/FW190.jpg .

"Ich bin ein Wuergerwhiner"

"We could do with some of those razor blades, Herr Reichsmarshall."
When Erwin Rommel that British fighter-bombers had shot up my tanks with 40mm shells, the Hermann G├┬Âring who felt himself touched by this, said: "That's completely impossible. The Americans only know how to make razor blades." and the above was Rommels reply.

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 06:13 PM
Who said that the pit of the TA152 has the same problem as the other FW190's?Look at this picture Oleg posted.It looks as if there is a better view in front and the gunsight has been pushed up and offers better deflection shooting compared to the old pits. (Sorry for the size)
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/4apr/Ta-152H-1_01.jpg



Message Edited on 05/12/0305:19PM by StG77_Sturm

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 07:30 PM
Demolisher_ wrote:
- Bussard, if the Whirly boys can have their own logo,
- so can we. Any volunteers to make us one?


Credit, indeed, where it is due /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Good luck chaps - see you in our gunsights soon, I hope.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif





"Whirlwind Whiner"
The First of the Few

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 07:49 PM
Demolisher,
My bad, you did coin the phrase "Ich bin ein wugerwhiner".
I'll content myself with having created the word, and hopefully galvanizing the FW lovers out there to express themselves as one voice.
And for our German friends, remember that US keyboards do not have the "umlaut" (cute little dots above the U in Wurger) Hence the difference in spelling.
S! Chris

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 09:29 PM
Bump

Come on disgruntled Fw190 fans, I know you're out there /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"Ich bin ein W├╝rgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 09:50 PM
Posted by Demolisher:

- Chris455

- Note that it was I who came up with "Ich bin ein
- w├╝rgerwhiner" Credit where credit is due

Yep, you're 103% correct there, Demolisher. You brought that name up and get the credit for that and Chris455, thanks for stirring up all the (much needed) attention for this subject. We W├╝rgerWhiners will prevail!


&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];};var YourPicName='http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/Me262Kill.gif'; var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName;o.height=81;o.width=92</script>

"Ich bin ein W├╝rgerWhiner"

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 10:01 PM
BTW, I saw something in another thread that was quite interesting...apparently Oleg has stated that a few cockpits would be modified in the patch. Does this mean Oleg has finally changed his mind?

Have anyone else heard this, or is it just a rumor?

"Ich bin ein W├╝rgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
05-12-2003, 11:18 PM
Bump!

CARBONFREEZE

XyZspineZyX
05-13-2003, 03:50 AM
Hey, I can't believe you guys went this far without me.

Somebody give me something to write with...

http://www.ifrance.com/luftwaffe35/images/bmw1.jpg

http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW/FW190-1s_small.jpg

XyZspineZyX
05-13-2003, 05:25 AM
"Ich bin ein W├╝rgerwhiner"- I am with you. The best German Fighter during WW2???????(which is what I have read in every book about the war) Try it in HL and you will get smoked.

XyZspineZyX
05-13-2003, 02:06 PM
first of all I have to admit : "Ich bin ein W├╝rgerweiner!"

I can understand that it is very hard to create the FM's for all thos old aircrafts based upon information which might be biased by both sides (the creater which made their aircrafts look better to raise their pilots motivation, the enemies which made the look worse to raise their ... you get it ?).

I think oleg and his team is doing a great job by delivering us a combat flightsim with a damage model and an FM which i have never seen in PC simulations yet. even a company which could spend millions on a combat flight sim cannot compete (CFS3).

But then, i sit an an FW190A-8 flying in a full real room and ask myself "how the heck could they use z&B as favorite technique in these playnes" ... why ? :

1) the sight ... it's not possible to see anything in a deflection shot
2) the elevator, it renders useless above 400-500 kph in any FW model.

This makes it a very, very poor b&z-er and therefore i'd rather try to turn ... if i could /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Greetings from Spliffster of
The Butcher Bird Brotherhood

Home of the FW Squad:
http://il2.wunderlin.net

XyZspineZyX
05-13-2003, 04:12 PM
I'm in too. I'd love to see more elavator authority in the FW, and that screenie of the Ta is extremely interesting... well noticed /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Varro

XyZspineZyX
05-13-2003, 07:21 PM
"Ich bin ein W├╝rgerweiner!"



Greetings from Ron of
The Butcher Bird Brotherhood

http://il2.wunderlin.net/

XyZspineZyX
05-13-2003, 09:21 PM
Greetings fellow W├╝rgerwhiners!

Is anyone willing to make a simple logo for us? Nothing fancy, just something that identifies us who are hoping to see the Fw 190 FM be modified...

"Ich bin ein W├╝rgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
05-13-2003, 09:36 PM
We must have justice!

if you have played C&C Generals, this is the voice of the GLA terrorist. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

We have much to do with forms of whining, agression and unsatisfiction with Oleg, 1C Maddox Games and their products FB and IL-2.

"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"-JFK

"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"


IC Ankanor, Defender of the TRUTH!

XyZspineZyX
05-13-2003, 10:37 PM
seriously if we want to be heard, we must keep the thread alive!
Oleg, give us the fixed FW190!!!

We have much to do with forms of whining, agression and unsatisfiction with Oleg, 1C Maddox Games and their products FB and IL-2.

"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"-JFK

"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"


IC Ankanor, Defender of the TRUTH!

XyZspineZyX
05-13-2003, 10:43 PM
- Is anyone willing to make a simple logo for us? Nothing
- fancy, just something that identifies us who are hoping
- to see the Fw 190 FM be modified...

Yep is coming up, just a sec. I have also just installed a new vidcard, so: not much time. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];};var YourPicName='http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/Me262Kill.gif'; var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName;o.height=81;o.width=92</script>

"Ich bin ein W├╝rgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
05-13-2003, 11:12 PM
Airborn_ wrote:
-- Is anyone willing to make a simple logo for us? Nothing
...
- Yep is coming up, just a sec. I have also just

ok ... ooking forward to it ot post on our site ... but first it's zzzZZzzzz-time

Greetings from Spliffster of
The Butcher Bird Brotherhood

Home of the FW Squad:
http://il2.wunderlin.net

XyZspineZyX
05-13-2003, 11:16 PM
Logo would be nice...

We have much to do some forms of whining and unsatisfiction with Oleg, 1C Maddox Games and their product FB

http://www.jg54greenhearts.com/Lang.htm

http://www.pbase.com/chrisdnt/eric_browns_190_report

"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"


IC Ankanor, Defender of the TRUTH!

XyZspineZyX
05-14-2003, 12:34 AM
Alright Demolisher, Chris,

and everyone who calls him/herself a W├╝rgerwhiner, here is your brand-new logo.

Enjoy and welcome to the Band of W├╝rgerwhiner Brothers!



<center>http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg
&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];};var YourPicName='http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/Me262Kill.gif'; var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName;o.height=81;o.width=92</script>



Message Edited on 05/14/0302:21AM by Airborn_

XyZspineZyX
05-14-2003, 06:35 AM
Airborne,
It's beautiful! I was actually envisioning something like it, but with an image of a Luftwaffe pilot playing a violin, standing in front of his FW!

"Never have so few been so foul to so many"
-the Wurgerwhiners

A

XyZspineZyX
05-14-2003, 06:37 AM
OOOPS!
Forgot to sign off properly-here goes:



"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"!
-Chris

XyZspineZyX
05-14-2003, 07:03 AM
Testing...

http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
05-14-2003, 07:26 AM
Thanks for the logo Airborn!


Our voice will be heard! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

We few, we happy few, we band of W├╝rgerwhiners...
http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
05-14-2003, 11:29 AM
I will need some help adding this pic to my logo.

HELP! PLEASE! ANYBODY! GET HIM OFF ME!

We have much to do some forms of whining and unsatisfiction with Oleg, 1C Maddox Games and their product FB

http://www.jg54greenhearts.com/Lang.htm
Please, notice the "nose-down position" of the aircraft!

http://www.pbase.com/chrisdnt/eric_browns_190_report

"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"


IC Ankanor, Defender of the TRUTH!

XyZspineZyX
05-14-2003, 01:35 PM
*Ignore this post*

Message Edited on 05/14/03Ô 12:38PM by Demolisher_

Message Edited on 05/14/0312:39PM by Demolisher_

XyZspineZyX
05-14-2003, 01:43 PM
Ankanor

Reply to this post and you'll see how to do it

We few, we happy few, we band of W├╝rgerwhiners...
http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
05-14-2003, 03:14 PM
Its like belitting your girlfriend....

Keep whining on the forums, but enjoy it for what it is today...

I still like it the best (and almost the only thing I fly)...

<img src=http://home.insightbb.com/%7Edspinnett/NonSpeed/SpeedToys.jpg </img>
http://hometown.aol.com/spinnetti/

XyZspineZyX
05-14-2003, 04:15 PM
Demolisher,

You're welcome. Just shout if you think the logo is a bit big or you'd like a different background colour, text, etc. since it's pretty easy to change a pic, once you have a first version. Maybe the text could stick out more? Just a thought. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];};var YourPicName='http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/Me262Kill.gif'; var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName;o.height=81;o.width=92</script>
<center>http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
05-14-2003, 04:35 PM
Posted by Chris455:

- Airborne,
- It's beautiful! I was actually envisioning something like
- it, but with an image of a Luftwaffe pilot playing a
- violin, standing in front of his FW!

Chris that sounds great, if you can get me a suitable pic of a violin player I might be able to make him stand in front of the tail somewhere. But then you can also modify the logo yourself. I think it's all about the W├╝rgerwhiner text and everyone should be able to make his/her own logo if he/she wishes to do so. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];};var YourPicName='http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/Me262Kill.gif'; var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName;o.height=81;o.width=92</script>

<center>http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
05-14-2003, 08:54 PM
I mean i need some place on the net but then...

We have much to do with some forms of whining and unsatisfiction with Oleg, 1C Maddox Games and their product FB

http://www.jg54greenhearts.com/Lang.htm
Please, notice the "nose-down position" of the aircraft!

http://www.pbase.com/chrisdnt/eric_browns_190_report

"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"


IC Ankanor, Defender of the truth

XyZspineZyX
05-15-2003, 10:55 PM
Fellow WurgerWhiners,
Too cool, I hope this topic grabs Oleg's attention!!


http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg

I can save it,I got it,I g...

Message Edited on 05/16/0309:03AM by Bussard1

XyZspineZyX
05-16-2003, 07:55 AM
What the heck, just one last B U M P...

We few, we happy few, we band of W├╝rgerwhiners...
http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
05-16-2003, 08:13 AM
With you guys /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
05-17-2003, 08:08 PM
keep the thread alive!

We have much to do with some forms of whining and unsatisfiction with Oleg, 1C Maddox Games and their product FB

http://www.jg54greenhearts.com/Lang.htm
Please, notice the "nose-down position" of the aircraft!

http://www.pbase.com/chrisdnt/eric_browns_190_report

"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"


IC Ankanor, Defender of the truth

XyZspineZyX
05-17-2003, 08:28 PM
FB-190=>crippled elevator

"Ich bin ein W├╝rgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
05-17-2003, 10:31 PM
I started a thread about 190 FM in Il-2 some half a year ago and people didn't take very kindly to that.
The only reason I don't get too hot this time round is that I've found the Dora to be competent enough for the job.
It's not the most uber a/c around but will still get the kills no mutter how hostile the enviroment.
And I really like it when I join a server and there's nothing else around but Yak and La 7 and the odd Hurri(!?!?!?!) and 109 K-4 and get the kills, even though I have to be very disciplined in the way I fly.
I've given up on the 190A models now and the Dora is my thing.
I suppose the tradition and success of the good old 190A deserves a better FM.
Especially 3 things.
1.The exceptional early war dive characteristics that are unlikely to ever be modelled correctly in FB since different dive characteristics aren't modelled much anyway.
2.Nose down attitude in flight that allowed for excellent forward view.
3.Those inexcusably heavy controls at high speeds that I'm sure are going to be looked after
4.Well harmonized controls that will make this bird the pleasant a/c it should be to fly(this is surely not going to happen).
If the hurri can outmanouvre a 190 I hate to think what the upcoming Spitfire will do.
But still,I enjoy FB and never forget it's the best game of it's kind around.


<center>http://users.compulink.gr/ilusin@e-free.gr/bf109[2)1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
05-17-2003, 11:42 PM
I'm afraid you are right when you say the good dive characteristics won't be modelled, I think it's probably an engine limitation. Maybe in the next sim.

I still think that FB is the best sim I've seen, and I play it almost exclusively. FB has ruined my social life /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

We few, we happy few, we band of W├╝rgerwhiners...
http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
05-18-2003, 04:06 AM
- What the heck, just one last B U M P...

Ab-so-lute-ly..

"Ask not what the W├╝rger can do for you, ask what you can do for the W├╝rger." - J.F.Kennedy

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];};var YourPicName='http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/Me262Kill.gif'; var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName;o.height=81;o.width=92</script>

<center>http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg </center>



Message Edited on 05/22/0307:15PM by Airborn_

XyZspineZyX
05-18-2003, 04:32 AM
Demolisher_ wrote:
- I'm afraid you are right when you say the good dive
- characteristics won't be modelled, I think it's
- probably an engine limitation. Maybe in the next
- sim.
-
- I still think that FB is the best sim I've seen, and
- I play it almost exclusively. FB has ruined my
- social life.
-
- We few, we happy few, we band of W├╝rgerwhiners...

And what dive speed is that?

I can dive in FW190D9 1014 km/u TAS without loosing any parts in FB.

The big bummer is that the AI can follow you since they are not effected by structural limits, black out and engine overheat.

<center> http://www.ls3k.com/dsa/forum/f2.gif </center>


Message Edited on 05/18/03Ô 04:33AM by Cappadocian_317

Message Edited on 05/18/0311:38AM by Cappadocian_317

XyZspineZyX
05-18-2003, 04:46 AM
Funny; I'm bagging kills right and left with everything now-A4 through D9!
I'm gonna be death itself if they fix the elevator and dive!
the Fw really is a German P-47! (well, kinda!)

"Never have so few, been so foul to so many"-
the Wurgerwhiners
"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"

XyZspineZyX
05-18-2003, 04:54 AM
another bump just for kicks, this thread may as well become a "word association game on the GD forum"..he he
(note the nice and neat forum compliant logo down there)

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/Pawnee1995.jpg

A man and his Messerschmitt..its a beautiful thing
[B]Burning Avgas at alarming rates since 1990. [B]
<G>Visit http://www.aopa.org<G>
I love the Me 109 but... "Ich bin ein W├╝rgerwhiner"!! too ;http://mywebpage.netscape.com/kurbalaganda/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
05-18-2003, 05:38 AM
Well, I just thought I would drop in and say hello to my fellow Wurger advocates.

Here's something interesting to read to soothe the pain of our hamstrung vitual Focke. It's from the Commanding Officer of No.485 squadron RAF, Biggin Hill, Kent.

He had the chance to fly a *real* Focke-Wulf:

"When I was about 8 miles south of base 2 Mustangs saw me and made attacks, dummy or real I don't know, I did not give these aircraft any chance, but owing to their insistence I let them see my RAF markings and they formated on me, and then tried to play. In the resulting steep turns at max cruising boost and revs I found no difficulty in getting on the tail of these aircraft, and could have easily shot them down...The rate of climb of the FW190 was greatly superior to the Mustangs..."


There's alot more where that came from/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I don't know why all this poor cockpit view, no elevator response nonesense comes from for the FW190.

Personally, I smell fear/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


http://www.ifrance.com/luftwaffe35/images/bmw1.jpg

http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW/FW190-1s_small.jpg

XyZspineZyX
05-18-2003, 05:56 AM
FW190fan wrote:
- "When I was about 8 miles south of base 2 Mustangs
- saw me and made attacks, dummy or real I don't know,
- I did not give these aircraft any chance, but owing
- to their insistence I let them see my RAF markings
- and they formated on me, and then tried to play. In
- the resulting steep turns at max cruising boost and
- revs I found no difficulty in getting on the tail of
- these aircraft, and could have easily shot them
- down...The rate of climb of the FW190 was greatly
- superior to the Mustangs..."

I have a book form a series called combat legends, this report is written in this book, the same book also bring up how impressed the test pilots were about the great view from the cockpit, especially in the rear hemisphere, funny though, the Americans were the only ones that reported the rear view to be poor. Could that be compared to the P-51's and P-47's with bubble canopies?


http://members.chello.se/unni/Ta152C.jpg


'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

XyZspineZyX
05-18-2003, 10:45 AM
- FW190fan wrote:

-- In
-- the resulting steep turns at max cruising boost and
-- revs I found no difficulty in getting on the tail of
-- these aircraft, and could have easily shot them
-- down...The rate of climb of the FW190 was greatly
-- superior to the Mustangs..."

Nice read /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif BUMP

XyZspineZyX
05-18-2003, 05:37 PM
- He had the chance to fly a *real* Focke-Wulf:
-
- "When I was about 8 miles south of base 2 Mustangs
- saw me and made attacks, dummy or real I don't know,
- I did not give these aircraft any chance, but owing
- to their insistence I let them see my RAF markings
- and they formated on me, and then tried to play. In
- the resulting steep turns at max cruising boost and
- revs I found no difficulty in getting on the tail of
- these aircraft, and could have easily shot them
- down...The rate of climb of the FW190 was greatly
- superior to the Mustangs..."



Very interesting indeed /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I wouldn't mind seeing that superior climbrate.

I know this has probably been posted before, but here goes.
http://mishoga.image.pbase.com/u16/chrisdnt/large/5176287.Sanstitre3.jpg

Imagine the guy sitting in the cockpit actually looking straight ahead instead of staring down at the instrument panel. He would easily see the engine hood and the machine guns clearly, unlike in the IL2 version of the 190 cockpit.



We few, we happy few, we band of W├╝rgerwhiners...
http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
05-18-2003, 05:47 PM
Original here:

http://www.pbase.com/image/16364663

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 09:30 AM
Give us the Ta with some MKs in the wing-roots and all whining will be over.



Petrus
member of the Butcher Bird Brotherhood

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 09:48 AM
BBB_Petrus wrote:
- Give us the Ta with some MKs in the wing-roots and
- all whining will be over.
-

You already have MKs in the wing roots./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Anyways, the view from the Ta152H will be even worse with the cockpit moved back and that extra long nose. If that lower lower frame for the windshield glass is not lowered, to be as the pilot sees it, well ..........

front fuselage lengthened ~770mm(30")

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg


Message Edited on 07/15/0304:54AM by MiloMorai

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 10:16 AM
Don't worry, the standard 190's will be just fine /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 01:08 PM
The patch fixes the Fw 190's crippled elevator. In the latest beta, you can actually stall it at 600km/h. It does bleed energy crazy fast if you turn hard at high speed, but you do have that option now. Overall the feel seems very realistic to me. Steller instant turn rate but high energy bleed, nasty high speed stall if you turn too fast and of course the advantages already in FB 1.0 like speed, firepower and so on.

----------------------------------------
<center>I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.</center>

Message Edited on 07/15/0307:30AM by Maj_Death

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 01:13 PM
Excellent news Maj Death, and how is the 20mm DM and climb rate?


<center><img scr="http://www.angelfire.com/pe2/gryphon/tiger_s.jpg"></center>

<center>Take a look to the sky just before you die.. it's the last time you will!</center></br>

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 01:27 PM
To continue on MajDeath comments, I would say it would be soon possible to really use the 190 according to its historical tactics /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 02:07 PM
joined..

____________________________________



Official Sig:



<center>http://koti.mbnet.fi/vipez/shots/Vipez4.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 06:56 PM
Just testing..

http://www.geocities.com/bs87cr/Wurger2.txt

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 11:45 AM
Long live the W├╝rgerwhiners!!!

And while you are at it, Oleg, please fix the useless german AI. Five days into the war, 85 % of my squadron mates have been killed...