PDA

View Full Version : Kids today. They are the same all over.



Waldo.Pepper
06-28-2007, 10:14 PM
http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070621/67611589.html

-HH- Beebop
06-28-2007, 11:01 PM
Sad but true.
In some respects I could see some Russians thinking the Nazi regime as not so bad compared to what they dealt with under Stalin's rule.
Still, young people don't appreciate what our fathers and grandfathers endured and how terrible war really is no matter what side they fought on.
Video games and (most) movies glamorize war and destruction.
Hopefully never will this generation or future generations have to go through the suffering and horror that beset the world during WW II.

woofiedog
06-29-2007, 12:51 AM
http://eduscapes.com/lamb/fdr5.jpg

Heirs of War
The children of the "greatest generation" hit the trenches to uncover their parents' lost stories


Quote... But remembering and talking"”while not always painless"”may be the best answer for both generations these days. When Tom Mathews persuaded his father to travel with him back to Italy and confront his war memories for the first time in more than 50 years, the experience was emotional, unsettling and cathartic all at once. The two men found themselves talking about things they never dared to voice before.

"What I feel," the older Mathews tells his son, "is redemption."

For boomers and their parents it's clear that the war has always been right there, behind them and between them. Now, perhaps it can connect them too.


Link: http://www.aarp.org/bulletin/yourlife/heirs.html

ElSjonnie
06-29-2007, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070621/67611589.html

In the sh*thole that is russia, I don't find it strange that neo-nazis grow in numbers. Communism is just NationalSocialism Lite in some ways. Even for Neo-nazi's in Western Europe the reasons for their behaviour is often easily explained by their circumstances. I think the presence of Neo-nazi's in an area can be seen as a symptom for much larger problems in that area.

StG2_Schlachter
06-29-2007, 01:40 AM
"...Attacked without warning...".

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif Yeah, right....

tigertalon
06-29-2007, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by ElSjonnie:
In the sh*thole that is russia,

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I wonder when the monstrous "cold war propaganda syndrom" will start to loose its effect...

Capt.LoneRanger
06-29-2007, 01:48 AM
The whole thing about the Nazi-Regimes popularity, was using the bad economical and social circumstances and showing how order and a rigid regime could quickly turn that into prosperity.

That seems a thing worth fighting for in the first place. Even the slogan to give jobs to national workers first, before you give them to immigrants is popular not only in Europe.

People tend to forget the bad things, though, and have a real talent to not think about them, as long as they are not the one being prosecuted for political or other reasons.

If you watched "The Experiment", Stanford-Prison-Experiment or read "The Wave", you know that things like that can happen more quickly than you think. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

ElSjonnie
06-29-2007, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElSjonnie:
In the sh*thole that is russia,

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I wonder when the monstrous "cold war propaganda syndrom" will start to loose its effect... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I base my opinion on views of people who live in Russia who I spoke to on a daily basis for more than a year.

leitmotiv
06-29-2007, 01:55 AM
Unfortunately, the species is not perfectable despite the illusions of some. Better to remember what Hobbes wrote about life in the State of Nature (humankind innocent of history, morals, religion, ethics, philosophy, law, and culture, i.e. probably half the people living in the West now) "will be mean nasty, brutish, and short."

tigertalon
06-29-2007, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by ElSjonnie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElSjonnie:
In the sh*thole that is russia,

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I wonder when the monstrous "cold war propaganda syndrom" will start to loose its effect... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I base my opinion on views of people who live in Russia who I spoke to on a daily basis for more than a year. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, in my opinion one should abstain from calling any country a "sh*thole" on this forums. There are many neonazi forums where you are allowed, encouraged and wellcome to do so.

MEGILE
06-29-2007, 03:05 AM
Originally posted by ElSjonnie:

In the sh*thole that is russia, I don't find it strange that neo-nazis grow in numbers. Communism is just NationalSocialism Lite in some ways. Even for Neo-nazi's in Western Europe the reasons for their behaviour is often easily explained by their circumstances. I think the presence of Neo-nazi's in an area can be seen as a symptom for much larger problems in that area.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Putin is talking hard words, and some of the Russians are liking it. Poor economic circumstances always breads far-left/right as a response.

TT grow a brain looser

ElSjonnie
06-29-2007, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by tigertalon:

Well, in my opinion one should abstain from calling any country a "sh*thole" on this forums. There are many neonazi forums where you are allowed, encouraged and wellcome to do so.

Russia is beautiful and has brought the world some of the greatest art. But for most people it is a sh*thole to live in. I could be politically correct if that makes people feel good, but I'd rather just say it as it is and contribute to the discussion with my opinion.

Makabi-
06-29-2007, 03:43 AM
I'm 19 and live in western Canada and I see this a lot in my area too. most of the things that my generation have learned of WWII have generally been from video games. kind of makes me feel sad, as I've taken interest in the history of WWII ever since I watched Battle of Britain as a young kid. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

although I've yet to meet a neo-nazi over here, thankfully.

SeaFireLIV
06-29-2007, 03:47 AM
Originally posted by ElSjonnie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElSjonnie:
In the sh*thole that is russia,

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I wonder when the monstrous "cold war propaganda syndrom" will start to loose its effect... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I base my opinion on views of people who live in Russia who I spoke to on a daily basis for more than a year. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And what type of people are you meeting on a daily basis? If I wanted I could go to ANY country and meet just the right people I wanted to talk to and they`d all tell me their beloved country is a sh*thole. I refuse to believe any country is a sh*t hole as you so freely call it cos of the obviously bias (the personal venom seeps between your words) reasons you give.

ElSjonnie
06-29-2007, 04:06 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElSjonnie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElSjonnie:
In the sh*thole that is russia,

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I wonder when the monstrous "cold war propaganda syndrom" will start to loose its effect... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I base my opinion on views of people who live in Russia who I spoke to on a daily basis for more than a year. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And what type of people are you meeting on a daily basis? If I wanted I could go to ANY country and meet just the right people I wanted to talk to and they`d all tell me their beloved country is a sh*thole. I refuse to believe any country is a sh*t hole as you so freely call it cos of the obviously bias (the personal venom seeps between your words) reasons you give. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

These people do not hate their own country, they just feel that the situation is strongly deteriorating in certain parts, in certain ways (democracy/economy). Fine, certain regions do well these days, but life in the poorer regions can be hell.

Now if you'd forget about the word sh*thole so we can actually discuss the issue at hand that would be really nice. I'll adapt my vocabulary to suit the sensitivity of this forum.

And OFF COURSE my reasons for using the s-word are bias. It's an opinion. One that will not necesairily bend to everyone's approval.

But I guess I'm too used talking to 18 year olds, and I made my point a bit too harshly. If I offended anyone I'm sorry.

mattinen
06-29-2007, 04:18 AM
Originally posted by -HH- Beebop:

Still, young people don't appreciate what our fathers and grandfathers endured and how terrible war really is no matter what side they fought on.

Young people (and people in general) may very well appreciate the sacrifices the veterans made and the hardships they endured, but they don't necessarily agree on other things concerning wars and conflicts. Among these matters might be f.ex the reason for a certain war or it's inevitability. I think we should keep in mind that being critical on politics concerning war and conflicts (past and present) does not necessarily mean you don't value the efforts put up by the veterans or today's service people.

polak5
06-29-2007, 04:33 AM
Originally posted by woofiedog:
http://eduscapes.com/lamb/fdr5.jpg


Nice http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

tigertalon
06-29-2007, 04:37 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
TT grow a brain looser

Loosing your unique style of a classy spammer Megile?

ElSjonnie
06-29-2007, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by mattinen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH- Beebop:

Still, young people don't appreciate what our fathers and grandfathers endured and how terrible war really is no matter what side they fought on.

Young people (and people in general) may very well appreciate the sacrifices the veterans made and the hardships they endured, but they don't necessarily agree on other things concerning wars and conflicts. Among these matters might be f.ex the reason for a certain war or it's inevitability. I think we should keep in mind that being critical on politics concerning war and conflicts (past and present) does not necessarily mean you don't value the efforts put up by the veterans or today's service people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said.

It is quite a small percentage of the population that has extremist views. When extremism becomes acceptable, that's when it gets really dangerous.

tigertalon
06-29-2007, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by ElSjonnie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mattinen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH- Beebop:

Still, young people don't appreciate what our fathers and grandfathers endured and how terrible war really is no matter what side they fought on.

Young people (and people in general) may very well appreciate the sacrifices the veterans made and the hardships they endured, but they don't necessarily agree on other things concerning wars and conflicts. Among these matters might be f.ex the reason for a certain war or it's inevitability. I think we should keep in mind that being critical on politics concerning war and conflicts (past and present) does not necessarily mean you don't value the efforts put up by the veterans or today's service people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said.

It is quite a small percentage of the population that has extremist views. When extremism becomes acceptable, that's when it gets really dangerous. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. Or to take it even further, once extremism in a certain country becomes acceptable, and consequently (God forbid) grows till it is widespread, is it still recognised as extremism (as there is nothing left extreme about it right?), and thus recognised as a danger?

joeap
06-29-2007, 05:30 AM
Stalin killed a lot of people, but there was no intention to exterminate the large majority of a single race as was the case with Nazis and the Slavic peoples.

ElSjonnie
06-29-2007, 05:36 AM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElSjonnie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mattinen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH- Beebop:

Still, young people don't appreciate what our fathers and grandfathers endured and how terrible war really is no matter what side they fought on.

It ought to be obvious after WWII, but apparently it is not. Remember how WWII followed closely after the first World War. You would think that the horrors of the trenches would make people think twice about armed conflicts, but as is visible even today, people did not learn.

Young people (and people in general) may very well appreciate the sacrifices the veterans made and the hardships they endured, but they don't necessarily agree on other things concerning wars and conflicts. Among these matters might be f.ex the reason for a certain war or it's inevitability. I think we should keep in mind that being critical on politics concerning war and conflicts (past and present) does not necessarily mean you don't value the efforts put up by the veterans or today's service people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said.

It is quite a small percentage of the population that has extremist views. When extremism becomes acceptable, that's when it gets really dangerous. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. Or to take it even further, once extremism in a certain country becomes acceptable, and consequently (God forbid) grows till it is widespread, is it still recognised as extremism (as there is nothing left extreme about it right?), and thus recognised as a danger? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ElSjonnie
06-29-2007, 05:37 AM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElSjonnie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mattinen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH- Beebop:

Still, young people don't appreciate what our fathers and grandfathers endured and how terrible war really is no matter what side they fought on.

It ought to be obvious after WWII, but apparently it is not. Remember how WWII followed closely after the first World War. You would think that the horrors of the trenches would make people think twice about armed conflicts, but as is visible even today, people did not learn.

Young people (and people in general) may very well appreciate the sacrifices the veterans made and the hardships they endured, but they don't necessarily agree on other things concerning wars and conflicts. Among these matters might be f.ex the reason for a certain war or it's inevitability. I think we should keep in mind that being critical on politics concerning war and conflicts (past and present) does not necessarily mean you don't value the efforts put up by the veterans or today's service people. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said.

It is quite a small percentage of the population that has extremist views. When extremism becomes acceptable, that's when it gets really dangerous. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. Or to take it even further, once extremism in a certain country becomes acceptable, and consequently (God forbid) grows till it is widespread, is it still recognised as extremism (as there is nothing left extreme about it right?), and thus recognised as a danger? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

WW2 ought to be a warning for future generations, but apparently WW1 was not enough of a warning for the generation of WW2.

Bearcat99
06-29-2007, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by joeap:
Stalin killed a lot of people, but there was no intention to exterminate the large majority of a single race as was the case with Nazis and the Slavic peoples.

Yes I agree.. and thats what made the policy of the Nazis so chilling.

It's funny.. my wife is a highschool teacher and my 10 year old son knows more about 20th century history than many of her students.

FI-Skipper
06-29-2007, 07:07 AM
What I always find odd is that people think nothing of wearing symbols of Stalinist dictatorships and stuff with USSR printed all over them yet people would be horrified if someone went out displaying the swastika...

Both Nazi Germany and USSR were as evil as each other and even without Nazi Germany, Europe would still have seen WW2 (Lenin wanted it to occur).

Even in Russia today many people are still brainwashed so as to think Stalin is great. Such dangerous views only exacerbate the problems we have today.

FPSOLKOR
06-29-2007, 07:10 AM
Originally posted by joeap:
Stalin killed a lot of people, but there was no intention to exterminate the large majority of a single race as was the case with Nazis and the Slavic peoples.

Lets be presise in terms of history - Stalin as far as I know killed about two dosen men and women whe he was a gangster in Tifflis and robbed banks... Let's not mix a person with regime, and further more let's not mix excisting regime and idea... There was no Communist state ever! Neo-nazism does grow from instability, and when we lived in Socialist time there was no neo-nazism whatsoever. It started to grow in 1992-94 on the grounds of nationalism that was dug out to explain simple people why great empire had to collapse. Now we have the crops of what we had sown.

FI-Skipper
06-29-2007, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by FPSOLKOR:
There was no Communist state ever!

You are correct...Stalinism was Leninism's baby. Let us not foget that Lenin put in place the centralised state, terror as a political weapon, setup Gulags, executed the Tsar and his family. This was all Lenin. The only difference is that Stalin extended the terror beyond the wider population to his Bolshevik comrades. Lenin was as evil as Stalin and both betrayed Russia in the so called "People's Revolution"

Blood_Splat
06-29-2007, 07:24 AM
Just let the kids of today know that we are still a primitive civilization that engages in tribal warfare.

FPSOLKOR
06-29-2007, 07:30 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Ob.Emann
06-29-2007, 07:50 AM
Historical amnesia isn't a condition exclusive to countries with totalitarian pasts, nor is it confined to obstinate 'kids' or those otherwise ignorant of the historical past. What it is is the natural tendency to rationalize and simplify your country's history to fit a preconceived notion. All nations have it to some degree and all of them display it to some degree on their respective Days of Remembrance.

In a sense, war and the rememberance thereof have become rather superficial and cheap. The wars and horrors of the past reduced to nothing more than abstractions, crystaline metaphors for bravery and sacrifice and for fighting for the liberation of X and the destruction of Y, let's-hope-it-never-happens-again blah blah blah. It's belligerant and devoid of any real profoundness. It assumes that the fighting of war and the preserving of peace are always directly connected (when the right team is doing the fighting, of course). The REAL tragedy should be the fact that the war started in the first place and that young men and women from all over the world were caught in the enticing whirlwind and their lives were extinguished on the battlefield in the name of 'ideals'.When Vladimir Putin, for example, on May 8 celebrates the end of the largest war in human history, that which took the lives of 50 million people and engulfed much of the civilized world in flames and misery, he puts on an over-the-top military parade that looks straight out of May Day circa 1953, goose-step and all. What is the lesson that the war tought us, again?

I personally think the lack of interest of youth towards rememberance of wars past, or in this case, the 'Great Patriotic War', is out of sheer cynicism and characteristic teenage complacency. I think the same thing goes with the recent Stalin-wasn't-such-a-bad-guy phenomenon in Russia. It's sort of a "We don't care about the GULAG, just as long as he raised the literacy rate" kind of cynicism.

Believe me, most of us teens KNOW that we are easily influenced and that the world is small, nasty, and complicated and therefore, wars are no different. But even knowing this, we don't think upon it (or damn near anything else profound, for the matter). We'd just rather watch MTV and work our way towards a new cellphone or an XBOX 360. After all, as Ezra Pound said, why fight for a flag when you can buy one for a nickel?

FI-Skipper
06-29-2007, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by HH_Emann:
Believe me, most of us teens KNOW that we are easily influenced and that the world is small, nasty, and complicated and therefore, wars are no different. But even knowing this, we don't think upon it (or damn near anything else, for the matter). We'd just rather watch MTV and work our way towards a new cellphone or an XBOX 360. After all, that World War 2 **** happened a long time ago and stuff....

I think you're grouping to generally...I certainly don't agree with this view. I have a huge amount of respect for all those who fought and died during WWII. If the views in your post are ones you hold yourself you should be ashamed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Ob.Emann
06-29-2007, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by FI-Skipper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HH_Emann:
Believe me, most of us teens KNOW that we are easily influenced and that the world is small, nasty, and complicated and therefore, wars are no different. But even knowing this, we don't think upon it (or damn near anything else, for the matter). We'd just rather watch MTV and work our way towards a new cellphone or an XBOX 360. After all, that World War 2 **** happened a long time ago and stuff....

I think you're grouping to generally...I certainly don't agree with this view. I have a huge amount of respect for all those who fought and died during WWII. If the views in your post are ones you hold yourself you should be ashamed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm satirizing the general attitude of those my age in that paragraph. I completely disagree with that view and I apologize that I worded it too generally.

FI-Skipper
06-29-2007, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by HH_Emann:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FI-Skipper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HH_Emann:
Believe me, most of us teens KNOW that we are easily influenced and that the world is small, nasty, and complicated and therefore, wars are no different. But even knowing this, we don't think upon it (or damn near anything else, for the matter). We'd just rather watch MTV and work our way towards a new cellphone or an XBOX 360. After all, that World War 2 **** happened a long time ago and stuff....

I think you're grouping to generally...I certainly don't agree with this view. I have a huge amount of respect for all those who fought and died during WWII. If the views in your post are ones you hold yourself you should be ashamed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm satirizing the general attitude of those my age in that paragraph. I completely disagree with that view and I apologize that I worded it too generally. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In that case I apologise for jumping down your throat like I did. I guess I'm all too familiar with the view you put forwrad in your post of these ignorant teenagers who think they no it all and ahve no respect for better men and women than they'll ever be. Sorry once again.

Skipper

FPSOLKOR
06-29-2007, 08:06 AM
WWII had one good thing in it - it showed to those who wanted to see that in next WW there will be no survivors.... And I really think that we have some bright heads in all of major countries to understand the point. Otherwise our planet would be dead by about 40 years ago. But to keep the peace there HAD to be arms race to escalate lethality of arsenals over the top. Unluckilly we are still in a condition of several tribes that can't sort their problems out peace-like. Brightness of our leaders is not good enough to understand when it's a time to stop.

Ob.Emann
06-29-2007, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by FI-Skipper:
In that case I apologise for jumping down your throat like I did. I guess I'm all too familiar with the view you put forwrad in your post of these ignorant teenagers who think they no it all and ahve no respect for better men and women than they'll ever be. Sorry once again.
Skipper

No problem. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

taz1004
06-29-2007, 09:45 AM
Vietnam war... at the time US government lead us to believe that Vietnam and communism was as great of a threat as Nazis. US killed 2 million Vietnamese and they killed 58,000 US soldiers. US eventually pulled out but after 30 years, people freely travel between two countries and Vietnam isn't any threat to world peace. I do respect the Vietnam veterans but the truth is that all those people were killed and injured for nothing.

I'm not old enough to have experienced any of these conflicts but I've seen what it did to my parent generations. Yes, today's kids should learn from the lessons of history. But only "Lesson" should be that wars are stupid and pointless.

SeaFireLIV
06-29-2007, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
Stalin killed a lot of people, but there was no intention to exterminate the large majority of a single race as was the case with Nazis and the Slavic peoples.

Yes I agree.. and thats what made the policy of the Nazis so chilling.

It's funny.. my wife is a highschool teacher and my 10 year old son knows more about 20th century history than many of her students. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. You cannot compare the premeditated planning and genocidal act of the Nazi leadership to stalinist Russia. Stalin was bad indeed and I certainly wouldn`t want to live under his purges, but if I was given only 2 choices where I`d be born, Nazi germany or Communist Russia, it`d be Russia every time.

p.s Oh yes as to Bearcat`s observation on School history, it`s exactly the same cas ewith my daughter. She knows more about a lot of WWII history than her school friends and even more detail than her teacher!

So she tells me.

Maybe it`s something to do with our influence as parents making sure they don`t forget?

FPSOLKOR
06-29-2007, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Agreed. You cannot compare the premeditated planning and genocidal act of the Nazi leadership to stalinist Russia. Stalin was bad indeed and I certainly wouldn`t want to live under his purges, but if I was given only 2 choices where I`d be born, Nazi germany or Communist Russia, it`d be Russia every time.

My dad had difficult times. At first he was a head of the collective farm, but later he gave up the post, and became a brigadier. After some time he was accused of the cattle deaths, and sentenced for fifteen years with property confiscated to cover for losses. He built Belomorcanal, but returned in five years. And what I remember – he was always supporting Soviet state. He used to tell us: Children, this state is great, it had given you what you would never get with the old regime – you have education, you can go further than we could... Please remember, for whatever bad happens there is no blame on state, but on it's leadership... Generally speaking, he never was a communist, but he for all of his life was a... Soviet person
Mihail Pomorov

joeap
06-29-2007, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by FPSOLKOR:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Your post was very insightful as well FPSOLKOR.

PBNA-Boosher
06-29-2007, 10:05 AM
Apart from everything in the world today, this was my greatest fear. I guess it wasn't as unrealistic as I thought. There is still time, we can teach them. But it has to be done soon.

FI-Skipper
06-29-2007, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
Stalin killed a lot of people, but there was no intention to exterminate the large majority of a single race as was the case with Nazis and the Slavic peoples.

Yes I agree.. and thats what made the policy of the Nazis so chilling.

It's funny.. my wife is a highschool teacher and my 10 year old son knows more about 20th century history than many of her students. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. You cannot compare the premeditated planning and genocidal act of the Nazi leadership to stalinist Russia. Stalin was bad indeed and I certainly wouldn`t want to live under his purges, but if I was given only 2 choices where I`d be born, Nazi germany or Communist Russia, it`d be Russia every time.

p.s Oh yes as to Bearcat`s observation on School history, it`s exactly the same cas ewith my daughter. She knows more about a lot of WWII history than her school friends and even more detail than her teacher!

So she tells me.

Maybe it`s something to do with our influence as parents making sure they don`t forget? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be honest I disagree. STalin masterminded his rise to power and secured it by eliminating his rivals. The show trials of the 30's and the purges that began with collectivisation in the late 20's and continued til the late thirties. He is every way as bad as Hitler, you cannot say one regime was worse than the other. Period.

SithSpeeder
06-29-2007, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by taz1004:
But only "Lesson" should be that wars are stupid and pointless. I hear _what_ you are saying, but they can be far from pointless. I would argue that WW2 was NOT pointless. Stupid, perhaps, maybe even daft/crazy, but not pointless.

But more on topic, tragic elements of history tend to repeat themselves. Figuring out how to teach the history and pass on the "lessons learned" is the challenge for humanity.

* _54th_Speeder *

Warrington_Wolf
06-29-2007, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Makabi-:
I'm 19 and live in western Canada and I see this a lot in my area too. most of the things that my generation have learned of WWII have generally been from video games. kind of makes me feel sad, as I've taken interest in the history of WWII ever since I watched Battle of Britain as a young kid. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

although I've yet to meet a neo-nazi over here, thankfully. -
I remember being in a discussion with some of my co-workers about Germany (It was during the World Cup). One of my co workers came up with this blinder of a question "which war did we (the Brits) fight the Germans in? Was it the first or the second, I can't remember which one? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif". Myself and the rest of the lads just stood there open mouthed, completely gobsmacked.
Even my Lab Manager who usually has something to say just looked at him in total shock, then proceeded to wind him up and take the P!ss out of him for several weeks afterwards.
He however isn't a neo nazi infact I don't think he has ANY political alliegence whatsoever. if however a political party decides at some point that it wants to legalise Marajuana (not sure if that is spelt right) in the UK, then he might swing towards their direction http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif.

SeaFireLIV
06-29-2007, 11:50 AM
lol, Warrington_Wolf, your lab manager has it right. If you want to teach anyone not to do something silly just take the mickey out of them on the subject for the next 3 weeks. I`ve used it myself, better than trying to talk logically. Always works! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

M_Gunz
06-29-2007, 12:04 PM
Traces of lead in canned food from many-many factories that still use lead solder for cans
had been shown before 1980 to affect brains, esp those of still growing children, with
diminished attention span and hostility.

There are of course Federal Regulations but those are for one dose making you noticeably sick
very soon and nothing checked over "smaller" neural damages.

Please note that lead like mercury, formaldehyde and I don't know what-all else is a cumulative
poison. What you take in does not leave. Even micro doses add up when steadily applied.

Rome fell over lead pipes more than anything else. Go check sites on what children who get
lead poisoning from say, paint chips are like. I don't need to, some of my best friends have
a grandson that happened to and have been blocked for suing over it. All at once or over so
many years, the end result is only different by the amount.

Also the way that lead content in canned food is officially measured is a kind of joke since
one study that went to extreme measures to clean the lab materials used to check found that
the real levels are much higher than when the labware was only "clean enough".

Oh well. It's not going to get better worldwide any time soon.