PDA

View Full Version : Newly discovered ww2 material!



GH_Klingstroem
11-11-2008, 02:07 PM
This video was found in a house in the states...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27651379#27650485

JSG72
11-11-2008, 02:29 PM
Some excellent footage there GH.

Thankyou for sharing. The Guncam was V.good
Showing the Softening up Ready for "D Day". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Flyfinn
11-11-2008, 02:50 PM
Hi.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Yes the guncam was good.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
that plane explotion at 10:50..huge pieces
flys up in the air.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif close call
THX..GH http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Sharpe26
11-11-2008, 03:01 PM
One little nitpick. although it was very interesting to see some of the footage I think there's a slight error in one of the films. It's not a Heinkel 115 that gets attacked. It's a do24.

F0_Dark_P
11-11-2008, 03:20 PM
Oh! thanx http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

sakai2005
11-11-2008, 06:08 PM
was that a p-47 being hauled back for a rehab on that truck.must be for parts.

LEBillfish
11-11-2008, 07:09 PM
Those guncams REALLY need to be watched by many here who like to argue long convergence vs. short.....Though impossible to tell the range I'd guess most of those films were fairly close (under 200m if not 100). The shots fired in constant bursts showing just how much spread (as seen by tracers) one actually gets to the firing plane boncing about from turbulance.

Do the trig, if you're talking a 8' radius pattern at 200m or less, what would it be at double that?

K2

Choctaw111
11-11-2008, 07:41 PM
Thanks for posting.
Amazing film.
Just think how many more films are in attics and basements.

Sturm_Williger
11-12-2008, 06:19 AM
Even more telling is watching enemy a/c taking hits while the tracers are completely wide of the target.

Great stuff, thanks for posting the link. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

SeaFireLIV
11-12-2008, 06:44 AM
Seen it before. But good stuff.

FlatSpinMan
11-12-2008, 08:09 AM
Interesting. Around the13minute mark you could see the pilot clearly dragging the nose up to gain lead on the target.It worked, too.As Billfish noted, the importance of firing at convergence was also graphically illustrated in one scene.
So do you think those would have been rated as Probables or Definite Kills? the 109 that was hit really low over the airfield (?) didn't look like it was going to a happy place. I thought the others were hard to be sure about.

Enforcer572005
11-12-2008, 10:55 AM
Yeah, that was pretty nice. Those guncams are so clear and detailed compared to what we normally see from copies of copies etc. Impressive how htey are in such great shape.

Did you notice the chaplain riding around on the Kettengrad vehicle that was pressed into service.

And it looked like many of those flat bed trucks had a single .50 mounted on them. Interesting.

Phas3e
11-12-2008, 11:04 AM
Yeah a lot of the aircraft claimed were different from what was on the film, completely understandable though doing 400mph and being shot at and all.

One thing that got my attention is the 109 at around 13mins, looked to me like an all 'white' high altitude camo used by JG1 and 3, havnt seen that on gun cam footage before

general_kalle
11-12-2008, 11:24 AM
is that a he177 Greif that's being strafed at 10:16?


looks like we have way too many tracers on our guns.. on the footage it looked like it was only 2 guns that had tracers andonly maybe about every 15th round


good footage!

GH_Klingstroem
11-12-2008, 01:15 PM
These clips also show us that these guys DID NOT use point convergence as we have it game for the .50cals. These guys obviuosly used more spread, almost like box convergence!Makes it easy to hit as soon as the guy is just close to the pipper. Not like we have where u have to extremely accurate to hit...

WTE_Galway
11-12-2008, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
These clips also show us that these guys DID NOT use point convergence as we have it game for the .50cals. These guys obviuosly used more spread, almost like box convergence!Makes it easy to hit as soon as the guy is just close to the pipper. Not like we have where u have to extremely accurate to hit...

I do not think anyone has ever claimed they did use point convergence after 1943.

Read this:

http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Aircraft/1943PatternBoresighting/


A5293

T.N.No. F-43

CONFIDENTIAL


2. The optimum arrangement of guns is that one which will produce the largest circular pattern of a uniform lethal density over the entire effective range. Mechanical limitations preclude the accomplishment of this in our present installations. However, this arrangement which is commonly referred to as "pattern bore sighting", can be approximated by converging each pair of guns at different ranges and elevating each pair of guns by varying amounts. Boresight patterns have been made up on this basis for the Models F6F-3, P4U-1, and FM-1 Airplanes, and, along with appropriate target screen layouts, are shown in Fig. 4 to 9. In arranging the patterns an endeavor was made to obtain patterns with as uniform a density of lethal proportions throughout the effective firing ranges as practicable.

3. Instructions have been issued to the airplane contractors to deliver fighter airplanes now in production boresighted according to the attached patterns. Modifications will be made to each of the patterns as subsequent experience or considerations indicate the need. It is considered desirable that a uniform boresight alignment be used for each model airplane throughout the service. It is not intended, however, to prohibit deviations from the standard patterns to meet specific tactical requirements. Before departing from the uniform pattern, due consideration should be given to the advantages of standardization which should be weighed against such minor advantages as may appear to exist in variations intended for use during circumstances of infrequent occurrence. "

GH_Klingstroem
11-12-2008, 08:50 PM
Sure I agree with you! But u have missed the discussion that has been going on on these boards for the last years! First this sim delivered the US planes with .50 cals that had huge spread, like a shotgun effect. But in those days the 0.50 cal round was very ineffective so people complained that it was due to the spread we had and so it was decided that we should try the "point convergence". This was actually voted bu il2 pilots againste Olegs will. So we got the point convergence instead which makes it very difficult for the average pilot to hit the target at all but when he does hit it causes some damage at least. Well, the 0.50 cal round was fixed but the convergence stayed. And as this photage shows, we should go back to a bigger spread! I have argued for this for a long time, but the only responce yuo get it " learn how to shoot". I can garantie that I am one of the most accurate pilots in IL2 when it comes to aiming with .50s
, sitting very very rarely below 10% hits after afew hours of online playing so pls dont use that comment to me!
Anyway, the US .50 cals should have the same spread as the ingame british .303s! that would make it alot easier for alot of US pilots!!