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View Full Version : What can I say I was wrong.........



XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 05:18 AM
Well I rather feel like the dirty business end of a Horse right now. After much testing and figuring out what in the heck I was doing wrong I found that the Mustang is not in fact all that off in it's high altitude top speed. There are a few minor bugs like the closed/auto feature for the radiator and of course the aileron trim. But things I am sure that will be fixed, I supplied my track and findings to the email for Oleg. But I felt I owed all here an apology for jumping the preverbial gun and getting all hot under the collar with out finishing my tests, I won't be doing that again. Sorry
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

P.S.
I managed 698 Kph on the dot with 100% prop pitch, radiator closed, 110% throttle @7600 meters. I think that is quite close enough for me, 5 Kph is enough of an error margin.

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XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 05:18 AM
Well I rather feel like the dirty business end of a Horse right now. After much testing and figuring out what in the heck I was doing wrong I found that the Mustang is not in fact all that off in it's high altitude top speed. There are a few minor bugs like the closed/auto feature for the radiator and of course the aileron trim. But things I am sure that will be fixed, I supplied my track and findings to the email for Oleg. But I felt I owed all here an apology for jumping the preverbial gun and getting all hot under the collar with out finishing my tests, I won't be doing that again. Sorry
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

P.S.
I managed 698 Kph on the dot with 100% prop pitch, radiator closed, 110% throttle @7600 meters. I think that is quite close enough for me, 5 Kph is enough of an error margin.

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XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 05:21 AM
Shows strength of character to admit one was mistaken. An honorable action to be sure.

Its good to know that the P-51 may afterall be modeled fairly well and we're picking at minor issues here and there in the interests of achieving the best possible accuracy.

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"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 07:08 AM
Even greater respect to you Eagle, hats off!

V!

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 07:18 AM
Thats still about what, 437 or so MPH?

Wait a minute, that makes it undermodeled! FIX IT!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Where's DDT when you need him... I'm no good at FM whining! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 07:46 AM
But you are becoming quite good at the personal attack Korolov... It grow very tiring....

<center><FONT color="red">[b]BlitzPig_EL</FONT>[B]<CENTER> http://old.jccc.net/~droberts/p40/images/p40home.gif
</img>.
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. "
--T.E. Lawrence

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 07:50 AM
Korolov, go stand in the corner, that`s an order!

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 08:10 AM
ElAurens wrote:
- But you are becoming quite good at the personal
- attack Korolov... It grow very tiring....

Whats wrong with it, DDT is fun to "attack"!

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 08:26 AM
Good on you Eagle, though I felt you were much more mature and reasonable than most throughout. This Bud's for you!.

Cheers.

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XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 09:05 AM
You don't have to apologize for that, friend Eagle.

You just did a new test, and the results are different. The data you provide is good reference for other testers, and that's all it really is. It's not like we're fighting for our namesake or something. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Besides, the really interesting part of this all, is now, [b]I</b?, can't get those figures at 7600m. My testings revealed a speed range of 670~686km/h at 7600m, with various settings and fuel loads, even.

I think this just gets better and better.



-----------
Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 06:39 PM
Thanks guys, I just have to admit when I am wrong. And since I was so public with my posts, my aplogy should be as well. I appreciate the support and kind words, makes my horses a$$ feeling a little smaller. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

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Message Edited on 11/12/0309:49PM by Eagle_361st

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 07:15 PM
Eagle_361st wrote:
- Well I rather feel like the dirty business end of a
- Horse right now. After much testing and figuring out
- what in the heck I was doing wrong I found that the
- Mustang is not in fact all that off in it's high
- altitude top speed. There are a few minor bugs like
- the closed/auto feature for the radiator and of
- course the aileron trim. But things I am sure that
- will be fixed, I supplied my track and findings to
- the email for Oleg. But I felt I owed all here an
- apology for jumping the preverbial gun and getting
- all hot under the collar with out finishing my
- tests, I won't be doing that again. Sorry
- ~S!
- Eagle
- CO 361st vFG
-
- P.S.
- I managed 698 Kph on the dot with 100% prop pitch,
- radiator closed, 110% throttle @7600 meters. I think
- that is quite close enough for me, 5 Kph is enough
- of an error margin.
-
- <center>------------------------------------------
- ----------------------------------</center> <center>
- www.361stvfg.com</center> (http://www.361stvfg.com</center>)
- <center>
<img
- src="http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/2
- 45357/site1003.jpg">
-
- </center>

Cool. So that means that we now have only the overmodelled high speed handling Zeros keeping up with P-40s in a dive which suffer from a ridiculous decrease in rollrate with increasing speed, even more than in 1.11 now, and to low top speed, combined with ridiculous overheating, as well as the ******ed P-47D-27 rollrate. Great, so maybe I can fly at least one somewhat realistic US plane in a 45 server now, albeit not being able to outdive KI-84s. Fine. I think I'm done with that one. FB has a great "feel" of flight to it and great Gunnery model, albeit it's worth $hit for a WWII air combat simulation that can't get most of the hard data right. Seems to me their advanced and hyped FM calculation hit them in the back here. Can't get it right. You know, it's funny, there have been tons of more or less hardcore WWII flightsims out there, like Warbirds, AH, EAW, Rowan's BoB, Target Rabaul, where in EACH of them specific plane in game 1 and game 2 were very similar in their strong and weak points, sometimes even had a very similar handling (Warbirds and Aces High, talking about departure e.g.) and then there comes a developer throwing everything on its back and tells you "It is modelled best here". Never mind the FMs changing dramatically with each patch. I didn't see a game yet where a Zero pilot would even think about running or diving with a P-40, for several reasons. I didn't see a game yet where a 109G-2 or G-6 pilot would think about diving after a P-47 D-27. I didn't see a game yet where someone would prefer a P-39 over the P-40 for turnfighting. I didn't see a game yet where a KI-84 could absorb more damage than a FW-190. I didn't see a game yet where in some planes you could pull 28 Gs for leveling out after the dive. I didn't see a game yet where some planes were not affected on control authority with increasing speed. And I didn't see a game yet where FMs changed back and forth every other version. Excuse me, but WHAT THE HELL is going on here?
This in no way resembles WWII air combat. Those, for the most part, are fantasy planes which only look like the real ones. You are lucky to find some correct match-ups, where in other sims you had bad luck finding an inaccurate match-up.

I think I'm out. I had hopes all the time for the final version, but seeing where this version here now, with the final one knocking on the door already, still is, I've given up. There are way more things to fix than could be done in that time, and the "1 step forward, 1 step back" approach we've experienced isn't going to help with that either. For those who can still enjoy it, fine, I wish you all the best, but for me it's not good enough. I've seen, and still see, better stuff.

Regards
heartc




Message Edited on 11/12/0306:18PM by Heart_C

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 07:40 PM
Well done, Eagle_361st .
Some people knowing they`re wrong just don`t respond. It`s good to see you can.

Oleg must be doing something right, there`s been a lot of apologies lately from a few people...

"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 07:49 PM
How do you get those numbers? Best I was able to get at 100% throttle, rads closed, 100% prop was 430 kph indicated at 7650m, which converts to 400 mph TAS. At 110 WEP I get 440kph IAS, which is a mere 409.5 mph TAS by my calculations. I had the plane perfectly trimmed and flew straight and level for about 10 mins and could not get better than 440kph IAS at 7650m. This isn't anywhere even close to appropriate top speed at 100% power. Should I be using different techniques? Should I be using different prop or rad settings?

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 08:13 PM
Well, this is what constructive critics seperates from whining. Apology accepted /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BTW, I think the mustang is just fine. A good high-speed performer, even after the RC patch.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 10:09 PM
I realy dont know how you did Eagle. i have run 6 tests so far and i cant get it past 680kmh at 7600m.

ZG77_Nagual
11-12-2003, 10:27 PM
Well, from what I can tell these speeds are probably closer to reality than the 'ideal' reports. Certainly closer to what the Brits found testing the B model - which is faster than the d. Problem is if other planes are not similarly realistic in modeling.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-12-2003, 10:49 PM
I am happy to supply a track to anyone who wants it, I had a hell of a time keeping it level, but that can be attributed to the trim issue and what feels like a full tank even with 25% fuel. But I managed to achieve 698 Kph with 110% throttle, 100% prop pitch(or 3,000 rpm) and radiator closed. However in this test I was only able to keep that speed for a few seconds as I had to throttle back and open the radiator to auto(which does not work BTW), and then to setting 4. I then tried again loosing some altitude and achieved I believe 670 Kph with the radiator setting at 4, tried closed again but by then the engine was very hot and only got 680 Kph. Then the engine went south, I believe the radiator not functioning properly is really hurting more than anything right now. The plane should just not overheat in less than 2 minutes at 110% throttle. And the auto function should open the radiator to effectively cool the engine. I have submitted my findings to Oleg to let him figure it out, all in all I dropped to an altitude of 7,000 meters always testing what the top speed was when the ball was centered.
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

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Message Edited on 11/12/03 09:51PM by Eagle_361st

Message Edited on 11/12/03 09:52PM by Eagle_361st

Message Edited on 11/12/0309:54PM by Eagle_361st