PDA

View Full Version : Time to drink Toliet Water!



stalkervision
01-30-2008, 04:33 PM
Knowing you guys here and your propensity for drinking anything and everything that can't get away from you at the time this might interest you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.slate.com/id/2182758?GT1=10837

You want a chaser with that T/W... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

roybaty
01-30-2008, 04:38 PM
Good idea, just hard to sell the uneducated on it.

Zeus-cat
01-30-2008, 08:02 PM
By this point in the history of the world, every drop of water we drink has already passed through someone, or more likely multiple someones (or animals).

Its ridiculous to think that every day we don't breathe in, drink or eat something that was once part of another person.

Adrian Monk would be grossed out by this idea!

brewens
01-30-2008, 08:10 PM
Didn't some high school kid take samples from drinking fountains and the toilets at his school, and found that the toilets were cleaner?

Lurch1962
01-30-2008, 08:46 PM
Zeus-cat has it right. After all, the atoms floating around in the ecosystem are rather durable, and at one time or another become part of molecules. Why, many of the atoms/molecules in our bodies probably once resided in dinosaurs!

And of course, *every* atom in the universe heavier than hydrogen, helium and lithium were manufactured in the hearts of stars, and subsequently flung into space either in supernova explosions or in the gentler puffs from smaller, dying stars.

deepo_HP
01-30-2008, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
Its ridiculous to think that every day we don't breathe in, drink or eat something that was once part of another person.


is it?
all water on earth is about 1.5E18m^3, in the mid-nineties humanity consumed (for organic processes only) about 8E11m^3 per year. makes 1.5mio years they (we) could have done so before all water has passed through.
considering, that 2000 years ago there were only estimated 400E6 persons living on earth and until the last ice-age, 10000 years ago, there were only 5E5 to 10E6 'homo sapiens' hunting and collecting things, you can probably even include less advanced species of the genus 'homo' including all 'hominides' to drink some water, before it has entirely passed through those and us fellows...

not to speak of that there is hardly any molecule existing longer than some milliseconds or even for its own at all - more or less it is some kind of mixed drink anyway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

(edited, for i forgot several zeros - however makes it even more left to drink)

M_Gunz
01-30-2008, 10:35 PM
How much water that I drink or air that I breathe for that matter was locked in coal or oil
for 60-off million to billion years long? Some even longer as water coming up from volcanic
vents goes way, way back.

You know we have exploding stars from long before our sun was a sun at all to thank.
Or just perhaps we thank that there is anything at all, however we do so not taking all for
granted and playing at being squeamish within short sighted world views? Hard to tell how
many can't see beyond their own lives but I'm very glad that enough do to make understanding
available to the rest including myself, I wasn't born knowing anything.

joeap
01-31-2008, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by deepo_HP:

not to speak of that there is hardly any molecule existing longer than some milliseconds or even for its own at all - more or less it is some kind of mixed drink anyway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



Ok, I see the point of the rest of your post but what is that supposed to mean? You are confusing subatomic particles in accelerators with molecules. I mean If it were true how can water exist? All the water molecules would vanish...if I understood you correctly.

Loco-S
01-31-2008, 05:14 PM
"Los Toreros muertos" have a song about the issue:


Y creo que he bebido mas de 40 cervezas hoy
y creo que tendr que expulsarlas fuera de mi
y subo al water que hay arriba en el bar
y la empiezo a mear y me echo a reir
Sale de mi una aguita y amarilla calida y tibia
Y baja por una tuberia,
pasa por debajo de tu casa,
pasa por debajo de tu familia,
pasa por debajo de tu lugar de trabajo,
mi agita amarilla, mi aguita amarilla...
Y llega a un rio, la bebe el pastor,
la beben las vaquitas, riega los campos,
mi agita amarilla, mi aguita amarilla....
Y baja al mar,
juega con los pececillos, juega con los calamares,
juega con las medusas y con las merluzas que tu te comes.
mi aguita amarilla, mi aguita amarilla...
mi aguita amarilla, mi aguita amarilla...
El sol calienta mi aguita amarilla,
la pone a 100 grados, la manda para arriba,
viaja por el cielo, llega a tu ciudad y empieza a diluviar.
Moja a las calles, moja a tu padre,
Tu madre lava, lava con mi agita amarilla...
moja el patio del colegio, moja el ayuntamiento...
mi aguita amarilla, mi agita amarilla....
Y creo que he bebido mas de 40 cervezas hoy
y creo que tendr que expulsarlas fuera de mi
y subo al water que hay arriba en el bar
y la empiezo a mear y me echo a reir y me pongo a pensar
donde ira, donde ira...
se esparcira por el mundo, pondra verde la selva
y lo que mas me alegra
es que mi aguita amarilla sera un liquido inmundo.....
mi aguita amarilla, mi aguita amarilla..

deepo_HP
01-31-2008, 05:17 PM
hi joe,

water is not, as crystals or metals, fixed in a molecular grid. constant interaction between the atomic bindings make it impossible to (hypothetically) identify an individual molecule at a given time - h2o as a formula doesn't mean, that there are single molecules swimming. it is more the lowest level of energetic interaction.

however, my first post was more show, how easily one can forget, what immense amount of water this planet has (got confused by the lots of zeros myself) or how small mankind's part in nature still is.
after all, true is for sure, that this means in no way, that we can go on with wasting ressources. just considering, that nearly all water is salty (related to the above, water solutes just so good), men are forced to take care for every drop... or should!

anyway, i think, nature doesn't bother. as long as we don't bomb the planet, nature and water and whatever will be - maybe just without the plague of men.

Zeus-cat
01-31-2008, 05:23 PM
deepo_HP,

I didn't limit my analysis to people. I included animals. Another thing to factor is the small amount of water on hte planet that is fresh water. Then there is the smaller amount of fresh water that is available to drink. The amount of water that is available has probably been inside someone or something else at one time.

The planet has been recycling far longer than people!

deepo_HP
01-31-2008, 05:39 PM
hi zeus,

sure, i didn't mean to talk against you. just wanted to show the dimensions and (ab-)used your post mentioning 'persons'.
as i replied to joeap, man-kind too often forgets, that it doesn't bother the planet, if men are walking on it or not. even whatever damage we do to nature, there will be regeneration, just probably without us.

M_Gunz
01-31-2008, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by deepo_HP:
water is not, as crystals or metals, fixed in a molecular grid. constant interaction between the atomic bindings make it impossible to (hypothetically) identify an individual molecule at a given time - h2o as a formula doesn't mean, that there are single molecules swimming. it is more the lowest level of energetic interaction.

Are you saying that water in liquid form has hydrogen and oxygen disassociated? I hope not....

Now salts in aqueous solution, those do break up into ions. But the H's and the O stay tight
until you get them to high energies. Consider how much current electrolysis requires and
what happens immediately to the split up gasses. Yet when I put NaCl in water the chlorine
does not bubble out.

Some water vapor splitting does happen in the upper atmosphere esp where the ozone is thin but
if it were common anywhere the the Earth would be a very dry place after less than a billion
years. Hydrogen would be scarce to say the least.

Water does crystallize at the right temperature and pressure, it's called ice.

He11, water is my #1 favorite dipole!

M_Gunz
01-31-2008, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
Another thing to factor is the small amount of water on hte planet that is fresh water.

Less than 2% with the "access rights" to most of that controlled. MSN has a money site where
the profit angles are noted.

Still there are desalinization plants here and there that do supply real amounts of water for
consumption. In world terms though, a minor fraction of a percent. Manufacture of facilities
that large, the bypass membranes or other means used and maintenance of those is not trivial
except perhaps on a large nation's GNP scale where few such plants operate.


Then there is the smaller amount of fresh water that is available to drink. The amount of water that is available has probably been inside someone or something else at one time.

The planet has been recycling far longer than people!

It's amazing all the places and ways that water fits. Some even takes the long path down into
the mantle and comes back up as steam. Clay is mica platelets and water and people are 98%
water IIRC.

There are even places where there is interstellar water! We get water on earth sometimes
from meteors and comets... and the rings of Saturn have more than on Earth, again IIRC and
of course that is in crystal form.

deepo_HP
01-31-2008, 08:00 PM
hi gunz,

yes, as ice, the structure is fixed, and it would be (theoretically) possible to name one oxygene by 'mary' and find always the hydrogens 'peter' and 'paul' slightly shivering around her, so they can be married.
as fluid, it happens, that 'peter', 'paul' and 'mary' easily get confused by finding 'jill' and 'joe' and the rest of the gang looking attractive the same, and molecular ethics degrade to pure statistics.

sorry, not to be funny, but found it a nice story http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
what i mean is, that in liquid water the molecule-model, as described by bohr, is only valid as a statistical visualisation of most probable configuration of atoms. as being a model the same, it happens, that submolecular structures change, an 'individual' (and 'stable') molecule can only be determined in a (theoretical) isolated stage, together with others it is only a configuration of high statistical probability, leaving other configurations (like states of leaving the molecular model) to a very short period of time.
same for salty solutions... the model of ionic-bindings is not meant in a way, that (subatomic particles of) ions are always configured to the same 'partner'-ion - for the model 'statistical probability' means 'stable' here, but the model simplifies atomic organisation as particles according to mechanics, whereas the actual behaviour is more like 'energy levels' as in quantum-physics.
electrolysis requires high energies, because it breaks up the statistical configuration of energy between molecules in water.

however, i don't think, either model is final. since science has discovered that there are more than electrons, neutrons and protons, i guess, the 'reality' about molecules will change some more (anyway, far before that understanding, i already find flight-simulators too complicated for myself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)