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womenfly
09-16-2005, 11:53 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/womenfly2/Japanese%20Aircraft/DSC02416.jpg

<span class="ev_code_RED">Picture/s will be displayed until</span> <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">23/Sept/2005</span>

nakamura_kenji
09-16-2005, 11:54 AM
ki-45 i think
http://www.todo-aviones.com.ar/japones/toryu/Ki-45-18.jpg

Chuck_Older
09-16-2005, 11:56 AM
My work PC is filtering the image. But I'm going to name the aircraft Harold. What did I win?

JG53Frankyboy
09-16-2005, 12:00 PM
i would call it a "missing plane in game" - sure than WITH wings and engines http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

major_setback
09-16-2005, 03:09 PM
It's a Zero I think, but I can't tell which model because of the big lump of metal in front of it blocking the view!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Chuck_Older
09-16-2005, 03:30 PM
Ah. Home now, I can see it. Nick. Dragon Killer. Army Type 2 two seat Fighter Model A Toryu. Nakamura_kenji is correct

Specifically the aircraft appears to be a Ki-45 KAIc night fighter. No nose armament (supposed to be for a radar, none known by me to be fitted), plus 2 obliquely mounted 20mm cannon firing upwards

Plus I can see the artist's rendition of the Ki-45 on the lower right hand corner, but still can't tell what version from the pic. I'm saying Ki-45 KAIc

Triggaaar
09-16-2005, 03:37 PM
Wow nakamura, that was fast.

nakamura_kenji
09-16-2005, 03:46 PM
floatplane background is Aichi M6A1 not A6m2n, it made origanal for I-400 submarine ^_^

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/images/aichi_seiran.jpg

it live little hidy hanger ^_^

http://www.j-aircraft.com/gallery/ships/i-400_c_allred_l.jpg

*seem not that fast someone just post same other thread minute before p_q*

EnsignKarl1
09-16-2005, 04:26 PM
Yep, Its definitely a Ki-45 Toryu "Nick" used as a nightfighter.
And look at the J1N1 Gekko in the background. Both would be great 'twins' to have in the game.

GerritJ9
09-16-2005, 04:35 PM
Another of Mr. Kawasaki's finest........ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

BenvZijl
09-16-2005, 04:58 PM
loli have that plane on a poster next to my computer so i'm cheating......

it's a KI-45 KAIc "Toryu"(dragonslayer) Heavy fighter

GAU-8
09-16-2005, 10:18 PM
IIRC,

that aircraft was packaged up in a tube no larger than 13 ft in diameter. and could be assemled together in under two hours, when the submarine surfaced. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

LeadSpitter_
09-17-2005, 02:05 AM
http://images.usatoday.com/life/gallery/mascots/03-11-gecko.jpg

JG52Karaya-X
09-17-2005, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by nakamura_kenji:
floatplane background is Aichi M6A1 not A6m2n, it made origanal for I-400 submarine ^_^

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/images/aichi_seiran.jpg

That plane looks cool! Erase the floatplane undercarriage and exchange for normal and you have one sweet-looking fighter http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
The nose looks similar to the Ju87-D3 but more steamlined... love the panorama view canopy (though many struts in there)

IL2-chuter
09-17-2005, 02:16 PM
There were two landplane versions built. One survived the war and was photographed somewhere in the US (San Diego area?) with some Cessna 120/140's in front of a Quonset hut style hanger with Smith Aviation written on the gable.

Oh, the folding fin tip (fold at top of rudder) wasn't on the landplane.

horseback
09-17-2005, 02:33 PM
If I'm not mistaken, there was a very similar aircraft used as early as Midway in the war as a recon aircraft (Seiran?). It may have accounted for some of the "Me-109s" that USN pilots reported seeing in those first battles.

Didn't it use a license-built version of the DB-601?

cheers

horseback

stathem
09-17-2005, 03:52 PM
Is that a Schrage Musik installation? What did the Japanese call it?

Enforcer572005
09-17-2005, 07:12 PM
Kenji has all sorts of neat stuff in his archives..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Had no idea any of those survived. Looks a little like a judy.

Where the blue blazes is that museum? Not everyplace has a B-29 and an FW in it.

x__CRASH__x
09-17-2005, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nakamura_kenji:
http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/images/aichi_seiran.jpg
That plane looks cool! Erase the floatplane undercarriage and exchange for normal and you have... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You have a Ki-61. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Notice the DB605 engine! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

woofiedog
09-18-2005, 12:38 AM
Looks like it could be an Anti-Shipping Variant with that opening in the nose.

Anti-Shipping Variant (Unconfirmed):
One 50mm or 75mm cannon under nose
Two 551 lb (250kg) bombs under wings

or

Kai-B:
Two 12.7mm machine guns fixed in nose
Two 7.7mm machine guns manually aimed from rear cockpit
One 37mm Cannon in lower right forward fuselage
€"Often with only one 12.7mm machine gun

Kai-C (Night Fighter):
Two 12.7mm machine guns mounted at 30? between cockpits
Two 12.7mm machine guns mounted in nose
One 20mm or 37mm Cannon in lower right forward fuselage

Captured Aircraft

http://www.j-aircraft.com/captured/capturedfrom/TAIC/TAICS14/ap-taic14-1.jpg
http://www.j-aircraft.com/captured/capturedfrom/TAIC/TAICS14/ap-taic14-2.jpg

http://www.j-aircraft.com/captured/capturedfrom/TAIC/TAICS22/ap-taic22-2.jpg
Notice the upward firing guns on the rear canopy
http://www.j-aircraft.com/captured/capturedfrom/TAIC/TAICS22/ap-taic22-1.jpg

HOME > JAPAN > TORYU

Ki-45 Toryu (Dragon Slayer)
[These are notes I took while researching Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault and the American Volunteer Group. See below for readers' comments and some additional information. -- Dan Ford]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Notes from WATANABE Yoji: Toryu: Jubaku kira (Toryu: Bomber Killer) (Tokyo, Sankei Shuppan, 1983):

After war started, army needed plane that could be used right away, in time for Java attack. Ki-44 & Ki-45 available and hurried into production. (47)

Had 40 days to prepare for test of Ki-45. 6 test planes made and a chutai trained; asked to complete 12 planes. Dec 20, took Ki-45 to Akeno and combat test began. Found that even from a slight angle, 12.7 mm and 20 mm shells penetrated target. But ratio of fire extremely slow: this cannon (Oerlikon) pumps out 127 rounds per minute compared to 525 for Zero gun. So even skilled pilot had trouble hitting target. However, concluded that enemy aircraft would provide larger target, so would have a better chance. (48)

In January tested rear gun and began hit-and-run tests, two-plane hintais. Formation called Rotte after German usage, imported along with test models of Bf 109. (48-49)

Late Jan tested against Hayabusa and Nate. Very difficult to overcome in dogfight, but when Ki-45 had altitude advantage, it could indeed use hit-and-run tactic. Would be possible to fight this way. 12 planes available by now; continued with night flights and groups attacks early Feb. (49)

1,690 Ki-45s manufactured altogether, 80% at Akashi factory. "Reformed" Ki-45 kai ko had speed of 540 kph @ 6000 m. (340 mph @ 20,000 ft); range of 2000 km (1,250 miles). Met 1938 specifications but slow by standards of 1942. Nevertheless, army accepted on 17 Feb. Had already chosen test group: 84th Ind Chutai, which also had Nates, at Gai Lam airport Hanoi. Together with 82nd chutai -- light bomber & recon -- comprised 21st Independent air unit under 25th Army. (51)

Chosen because 1) small group: easy to train pilots; 2) not in heavy combat: able to phase it in; 3) Hanoi has good communications with Japan. Plans completed end of December. Pilots went to Japan and trained Jan-Feb. When 9 planes ready, returned to Hanoi end of Feb. Meanwhile, 4 Nates had shot down French MS 406. (52)

Pilots didn't like Ki-45, and one pilot actually refused to fly it. Hard to start and difficult to fly. Engine and cooling system troublesome. The Nates, by contrast, with decent care was always reliable and ready to fly. Ki-45 therefore required and got continued improvements. (53)


***
Meanwhile, at end of March 5th Sentai in Japan got 6 Ki-45s, which actually scrambled during Doolittle attack but according to new tactical doctrine climbed to high altitude, missing the raiders which came over on the deck. Ki-45s came under fire by friendly ack-ack; had to join up with Nates to land. Army shocked by this raid. Deployed more Ki-45s because Nate too slow. (56-57)

Many accidents in Japan with Ki-45. (60-61)

84th chutai moved from Hanoi to Canton to take part in Se-go offensive against Chinese airfields. Based at Tenko airport, Canton (means something like river/heaven). 19 May, with 54th Sentai Nates, escorted 90th Sentai Ki-48 Lilys to Guilin and Lishui airports; no contact. 20 May to Guilin & Leilo; no contact. 11 June had a report that 9 P-40s arrived at Guilin. So 12 June took off: 5 Ki-45s from 84th chutai, 8 Nates from 54th Sentai, and 5 Lilys from 90th to attack Guilin. (64)

10 P-40s in 2 groups waiting for them. Came in from southeast and bombed airport from 5,000 m (16,500 ft), then changed course. 5 P-40s came down from above and attacked bombers. Nates were to stay with bombers, Ki-45s to drive off attackers, so scrapped with them. Then 5 more P-40s arrived and were engaged by Nates. 54th Sentai reported that P-40 performance good, American pilots cooperated with each other, and used hit-and-run tactics. Battle over in two minutes. Nates claimed three enemy a/c, Lilys claimed one, and Ki-45s claimed three -- total of seven -- plus four uncertain. But lost one Nate, one Lily, and two Ki-45s piloted by 2nd Lieutenant Ieiri (gunner Sergeant Honda) and Master Sergeant Yamada. Another Ki-45 crashed on way back to Canon. So total five. (65)

Realized that Ki-45 at a disadvantage against single-seat American fighters, especially considering that the lost pilots were more skilled than average. Three returned aircraft had expended a total of 70 20 mm shells, 165 12.7 mm bullets, and 293 7.92 mm bullets, from which (considering slow rate of fire) concluded that they did indeed engage the enemy head-on but mostly protected themselves (i.e., by fleeing?). There were wrinkles on the skin of these aircraft. 84th chutai concluded that the plane's performance in battle was disappointing, that it burned too easily when hit, and that its structural integrity was suspect. (66)

Did not follow up this battle. Returned to Hanoi at end of June and made this report to Japan: 1) Ki-45 somewhat faster than P-40 but inferior performance; 2) Rotte tactic needs greater numbers of aircraft; if such numbers are available, then Ki'45's performance must be improved; however, if not, then what is needed is increased speed. They also demand 1) vision to rear should be improved; 2) a supercharger be added to improve engine power for combat maneuvers; 3) belt-type feed be incorporated in 20 mm cannon because couldn't change bullets in air (magazines?); 4) install better system for disposing of empty 12.7 mm bullets (used an ejection lever; in combat didn't have time for that); 5) flexible gun needs improvement of location of bullets; 6) pilot's seat and antenna need attention. (66-67)

JG52Karaya-X
09-18-2005, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
You have a Ki-61. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Notice the DB605 engine! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Not really as the Ki-61s cowling is totally different (DB601E engine) and the Tony also has a razorback canopy instead of the all-around view of this floatplane...