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Krush24
06-23-2011, 09:27 AM
To All,

I was flying a sortie last night, when an AI wingman cut me off, starting shooting at a plane I was chasing, and collided with them.

If I had to guess, I might have been between 100-200 yards away when the collision happened.

Next thing I know, almost instantly, my pilot was killed.

I thought that maybe my plane & pilot were far enough away not to have been killed, but my reflexes and eyesight aren't as good as they use to be.

If this question makes any sense, is there a specific radius that the game takes into consideration, when damage is assigned?

If you are within x, you are automatically killed
If you are within y, you are wounded
Etc.

Thanks.

horseback
06-23-2011, 10:20 AM
Not sure of the specific distances, but I'm pretty sure that within 100m, an exploding a/c takes everything & everyone with it.

I've always considered that a bit excessive, given how many of the great aces preached 'get in closer' before firing. If the real things took out everything within 100m when they blew, it probably would have had a 'chilling effect' on that doctrine.

cheers

horseback

Krush24
06-23-2011, 11:13 AM
Thank you horseback!

I would also think too that if an aircraft collided with another in real life, would there necessarily be a big explosion or not?

I have 2 car crashes in real life, as they happened, at very high speeds, and there weren't any explosions.

I guess it depends on different factors for sure.

Luno13
06-23-2011, 01:33 PM
That's just the way Il-2 takes damage into account. If the core of the plane (cockpit area) reaches or exceeds a certain damage threshold, an explosion occurs. This is especially funny/annoying to watch a plane suddenly explode from just one well-placed 20 mm round.

But if a catastrophic explosion did occur, well, I imagine it would affect other aircraft within a certain radius.

The fact that you got a PK is chance. Basically, the game calculated that piece of "shrapnel" did that. There are times when my pilot has survived such explosions, but the wings and tail were ripped off and the engine was stopped and on fire. As far as I know, the game treats explosions not like a bubble, but like a bunch of radially arranged vectors (imagine a pincushion).

b34856
06-23-2011, 05:15 PM
Another thing you might try is to go into your confi.ini and change "Arcade=0" to "Arcade=1" and try to replicate the circumstances. What Arcade=1 does is make so you can see where bullets, shrapnel, whatever hits your plane with nice 3D arrows that show entry and exit holes, plus it adds some funny thought bubbles to planes dependin on what's going on http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Krush24
06-24-2011, 08:00 AM
Thank you Luno13.

That makes sense and now I have a better understanding.

I too, in the same campaign, have been very close to an enemy aircraft, have hit it with 1-2 20mm shells, and it went up like a roman candle.

My plane in 2 such circumstances escaped unscathed, and I was closer to the aircraft. I guess that is why I was definitely caught off guard when I was killed being further away from the actually explosion.

b34856, I will try that but it is unlikely I can re-create the same event. It will be nice to see however, those effects that you described in other circumstances.

ROXunreal
06-24-2011, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by Luno13:
That's just the way Il-2 takes damage into account. If the core of the plane (cockpit area) reaches or exceeds a certain damage threshold, an explosion occurs. This is especially funny/annoying to watch a plane suddenly explode from just one well-placed 20 mm round.


Watching someone's fuel tank exploding from a single 20mm shot is not funny or annoying, it's awe-inspiring in relation to the shooter's gunnery skill (or luck) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Luno13
06-24-2011, 12:27 PM
Rox, the point I was making is that it seems totally unrealistic. Planes such as the Corsair and B-17s (even without bombs) seem to have a "button" somewhere in the middle component that you press with a single bullet which triggers a "catastrophic chain reaction".

I don't think I've ever seen fuel tanks explode unless they were on fire first, and when they do explode, they typically remove a wing. Engine fires on the other hand also cause catastrophic explosions...which is also weird. I have to wonder what component in the engine can explode with such force as to rip the entire aircraft to shreds.

b34856
06-24-2011, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Luno13: I have to wonder what component in the engine can explode with such force as to rip the entire aircraft to shreds.

Perhaps it spreads through the fuel to the fuel tanks? Or maybe oil?

horseback
06-24-2011, 04:15 PM
I have to wonder what component in the engine can explode with such force as to rip the entire aircraft to shreds. Engines do explode; I bet if you went to UTube and looked up 'dragracer explosions' you would see some examples. Fighter aircraft of WWII were mainly fuel and ammo dumps with wings, plus oxygen bottles, hydraulic fluids and a powerful internal combustion engine running under high compression and stress; what surprises me is that so few of them went kerblooey...

cheers

horseback

Luno13
06-24-2011, 08:21 PM
Yes, I do know that engines can explode, but that's not what I'm arguing. What I'm wondering is whether you will see a fireball 100 feet across as in Il-2 which utterly atomizes the entire airframe.

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae325/rboiko1/IL-2%20Sturmovik/MiGvsJu-883.jpg

I looked up some videos and I've not seen anything that resembles Il-2 remotely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...t2_4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzPCk2lt2_4&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...bpR4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bx-7pHbpR4&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...TsYk&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJyjtSJTsYk&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCsSVLZ6wCI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...JC-w&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZP0Iy0JC-w&feature=related)

Fuel tank fires are also over the top (either black smoke or a raging inferno). Splashes also tend to be pretty overwhelming, rising hundreds of feet into the air, eclipsing an aircraft-carrier's superstructure by at least double its height.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...jc-M&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4J7zETjc-M&feature=related)

Let's look at some Kamikaze attacks, with special attention to the guys that "missed". 0:50, 1:47, 2:24, 2:46 (here you can clearly see a secondary splash - I'm thinking bomb), 2:58, 3:54 (also secondary splash).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...gT5Y&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtgQ-SegT5Y&feature=related)

In this you see a plane go right in - look at the splash height. (Try to ignore the girl who seems to think that what she saw was a model.)

I don't need to point to the numerous videos that show aircraft on fire...We've seen hundreds.


So to me, there are a lot of effects in the game that are greatly overdone and of borderline Michael Bay magnitude. Explosions that annihilate the entire airframe are all too common and too easy to set off, in my opinion. Often these types of explosions aren't at all caused by fuel tank ruptures or exploding engines, but by putting enough "damage points" into the core of the plane, typically the cockpit.

JtD
06-24-2011, 11:47 PM
There were explosions as violent as the ones seen in game, yet they were less common.

ROXunreal
06-25-2011, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by Luno13:
Explosions that annihilate the entire airframe are all too common and too easy to set off, in my opinion. Often these types of explosions aren't at all caused by fuel tank ruptures or exploding engines, but by putting enough "damage points" into the core of the plane, typically the cockpit.

There isn't a "magic button" in the game that a single 20mm will set off and destroy the plane, at least from my experience blowing up a plane completely with one or two cannon shots is extremely rare, and mostly happens with 30mm which, truth be told, would deal catastrophic damage to a single seater with a single shot.

Rather, there is an area with fuel tanks and engine that, after a specific amount of damage is done, makes the plane explode. The amount depends on the plane/armor, weapon being fired and whether the cannon rounds are hitting exactly that spot or doing splash damage from hitting somewhere else nearby.

The explosions of single engined planes would always, from my experience, come from putting sustained cannon fire into the front half of the plane's fuselage. Most often that I'd do it would be shooting a 2-3 second burst from a FW-190 into a plane from a slightly off-6 angle, so little deflection is required and the engine and fuel tank are exposed from the side. Shooting many cannon rounds directly from dead 6 would usually just destroy the tail/split the aircraft in half. A sustained cannon burst into the cockpit and engine areas, where the fuel, oxygen, oil and all other parts o' fun are can blow the plane up completely in game, again if it's a good and sustained shot. I'd say at least 5-15 direct 20mm hits in that area, depending on the aircraft in question and its armor. You'll almost never blow up a P-47 or a FW-190, but will do so with Spits and 109's as your targets, let alone japanese stuff. And mind you that cannons do splash damage in this game, so if you think the plane blew up because hitting the magic button in the cockpit, remember that hitting the cockpit also does shrapnel damage to tanks and engine, and that in most planes the fuel tank is actually directly in front of or under the pilot, so cockpit = fuel tank.

Only with cannons. I'm sure you have sat on someone's 6 in a plane with only light machineguns and shot the fuselage until your ammo ran out with little damage done, I personally can't remember blowing up a plane ever with any machineguns that aren't >12mm. Actually the only time I do remember completely obliterating a plane with a single or two 20mm cannon rounds was a spitfire that I fired a half-blind spray and pray short burst at at 90 degree deflection angle and it just went boom, but that was extreme luck.

With bombers you sometimes hit the bomb bay and make it explode but this is again extremely rare and I have shot directly at the bomb bay many times with nothing out of the ordinary happening.

Just talking about what makes planes explode in this game. I agree that the explosions themselves or the way they completely destroy the entire airpalne may be overdone, but then again its an old game.

Luno13
06-25-2011, 11:08 AM
Actually the only time I do remember completely obliterating a plane with a single or two 20mm cannon rounds was a spitfire that I fired a half-blind spray and pray short burst at at 90 degree deflection angle and it just went boom, but that was extreme luck.

This has happened to me several times in recent memory when I have shot at targets. I am not a good shot at all.


With bombers you sometimes hit the bomb bay and make it explode but this is again extremely rare and I have shot directly at the bomb bay many times with nothing out of the ordinary happening.

The thing is, you don't need bombs in the bomb bay for this to occur. You can shoot at an empty plane and watch the same thing happen.

VW-IceFire
07-02-2011, 09:12 PM
I think it's actually the fuel tank exploding OR some sort of master calculation where a particular dead on hit to a specific center mass of the aircraft will cause the aircraft to be obliterated if sufficient damage is dealt.

DKoor
07-03-2011, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by horseback:
Not sure of the specific distances, but I'm pretty sure that within 100m, an exploding a/c takes everything & everyone with it.

I've always considered that a bit excessive, given how many of the great aces preached 'get in closer' before firing. If the real things took out everything within 100m when they blew, it probably would have had a 'chilling effect' on that doctrine.

cheers

horseback Not sure exactly how they did it in WW2... however now that you mentioned it that made me think... flying into debris of stricken enemy airplane, be it just one screw that fell off the E/A wing or larger parts, I can't really predict what would happen when our aircraft run at it with +500kph. OK debris would have some speed itself, but surely difference in speed would be great.
IMO bearing in mind that common little rock can puncture car windshield I'll just say that I find parking on E/A six close and firing extremely dangerous all things considered. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

About excessive 100m blast I agree with that, I think it's unreasonable.

It would be nice to have some insight just how often happened that attacking aircraft received serious/fatal damage from his victims debris.

Messaschnitzel
07-03-2011, 11:14 PM
I remember seeing a photo in a book when I was a kid of IIRC, of a Norwegian RAF pilot pointing to the damage on the prop cone of his Spitfire. IIRC the caption said the damage was caused by the resulting debris from being too close to the enemy aircraft he was shooting at, although it very well could have been from Flak because it's probably 35+ years ago I saw the pic.

Maybe someone here knows of the photo I'm referring to?

As far as the game is concerned, I've had a couple of times in the past where I've had a plane explode in front of me when I was flying a Hurricane and got an immediate runaway RPM problem from what I have to assume was damage from the exploding aircraft. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif