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View Full Version : !!SPOILER ALLERT!! Assassin's vs Templar's



Cirris1991
11-22-2009, 07:54 PM
I remember one of the codex pages in AC2, where Altair talks about the Assassins's "Creed", and how it can never be destroyed. He said something along the lines of:

"I believe we have merely picked up the creed from whoever came before us, who pre-date the old man himself"

This got me thinking, do you think the Assassin's and Templar war stretches back all the way to the first civilisation, the one's who created modern day human beings?

The holographic woman at the end of AC2 talked about how there were people in her kind who "turned away from war". Do you think the battle could have existed between them as well?

Also if you remember subject 16's video sequence, of what looks like 2 human's, Adam and Eve, escaping from what looks to be some kind of slave labour facility. You can see a guard in one of the windows, holding what seems to look like an Apple of Eden, which is controlling nearby humans to work. I personally think that the guards are Templar's, controlling humanity, which seems to be the Templar's main goal throughout history.

Also Altair mentions how it is human nature to try and dominate his/her surroundings, but how dominating other beings is wrong. I think the Assassin's/Templar battle has been going on for thousands of years, Templar's continually striving to control, and dominate.

Iskander_Estel
11-22-2009, 08:11 PM
i don't think so...
the templar history began when the 10 from the first game found the Apple of Eden...

and the templars aren't the biggest problem

have you heard the end?

DukeVaungur
11-22-2009, 08:45 PM
Actually, the Templar/Assassin war stretches back for longer. There's a statue in the Assassin's Crypt of an assassin that killed Alexander the great, and there were Assassins in the time of the Roman Empire, as well.

Cirris1991
11-23-2009, 05:48 AM
Precisely! The Templar's go back way before the Crusades, heck they go back to Roman and Egyptian periods. I know that desmond and crew are probably going to have to save the world from another global catastrophy, but I do believe the Templar organisation have been around all the way back to "The one's who came before".

P459
11-23-2009, 06:12 AM
Maybe Adam and Eve have two children. One of them creates the order of The Templar and the other creates the Assassins?

Dudebag
11-23-2009, 06:16 AM
The Knights Templar were actually formed during the Crusades and were Officially endorsed by the Roman Catholic Church around 1129 and supposedly they were disbanded by Pope Clement V in around 1312.

Of course there are a few tin foil hat wearing conspiracy nuts who believe the Templars still exist controling the world and influencing events from behind the scenes sort of like the illuminati.

Maybe in the Assassin's Creed universe they existed before the crusades but I think it is unlikely. It is more likely that the founding members found the information and decided to create the Templars because of it during the crusades.

Cirris1991
11-23-2009, 07:14 AM
Ok maybe not the actual physical order of the Templar existed before the crusades, but we knew the Assassin's have been around for years, why not their mortal enemies? I think there has always been a war between two groups of people, those who want to control and those who want to free people. As Altair said, he hinted at the fact that the Assassin's "pre-dated the old man himself".

In "The Truth" video, you can see what seems to be people who look like Minerva, controlling Human's for slave labour. Adam and Eve could have led the resistance against their dominating masters, founding the creed that "Nothing is true, everything is permitted". Maybe they weren't necessarily "Assassins" but they could have had the same goals.

I think the Templar's are just the modern day oppressors, using the artefacts to control, and "bend reality to their will"

breakdown89
11-23-2009, 08:19 AM
when cain slayed abel and took the apple of eden from him, that was the birth of the first templar in history.

Captain Tomatoz
11-23-2009, 08:23 AM
im positive those people in the factory who are controlling the humans are the 'ones that came before' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PlagueDoctor357
11-23-2009, 08:39 AM
I think so too Tony.

Also, the assassins in your villa basement did great things like kill Xerxeus or however his name was spelled.

Doesn't mean there has to be Templars back in the day too.

Doesn't his first Codex picture of templars show them fighting Assassins in the holy land?

ChaosOveride
11-23-2009, 11:46 AM
yes but the codex is written by altair, the assassins may go back farther, but i think the templars are the proper order, formed around the crusade. They may be similar to an existing order befire but they are the knights templar of the crusades not an older order.

JudgeQwerty
11-23-2009, 04:01 PM
Well, they're pretty clear about Assassins existing at least 400 years before Christ. The (Templar) Brotherhood in AC1 though, only seem obssessed with ending the Crusades. If they were older than that, they'd probably already have the Piece of Eden and be more ambitious with their plan.

On the other hand, they're not actually Templars, just members of a group lead by one. None of them, in AC or AC2, ever refer to themselves as Templars, only to the 'Brotherhood'. Only assassins call them Templars and they recieved almost all of their information from Al Mualim, a traitorous megalomaniac. The templars might have only been formed during the Crusades, but the actual conspiracy might be much older.

CraZm0nk
11-24-2009, 01:48 PM
Here's my take on this. I agree with Cirris. It's true that there's a codex saying "I believe we have merely picked up the creed from whoever came before us, who pre-date the old man himself". So I think it all started back in the first civilization. Of course, they're not called Assassins and Templars back in the first civilizartion, heck probably not an order yet but their creed have already existed
Assassins and Templars just reinvented the creed. Templars aim for peace through domination (no free will), Assissins aim for freedom (nothing is true, everything is permitted).

Another thing that I noticed is that Adam and Eve in "the Truth" video were NOT naked. It's hard to see because they're doin some parkour and mostly back shots. But take a closer look when they're on the top of the building as Eve turned to Adam holding the P.O.E. and calling him. You'll notice that there's a line (border) in her neck(collar) and wrist. The skin color of her face is different than of the body. They're probably wearing some sort of high-tech bodysuite. In addition, let's be adults here... they have no buttcrack. Based on my theory, Minerva would then be of the Templars side back then. The reason why she wanted to help(warn) Desmond through Ezio is that she didn't want the Templars and Assassin's to make the same mistake that the First civilization and her kind had. It's all up to Desmond and of course, Templars will be the bad guys.

mojsarn
11-25-2009, 01:08 PM
it is like DeusEx89 wrote or so ive read, in one of the glyphs, 16 is talking about cain and abel, adam and eve escaped, and cain took the apple from his brother, they are the descendants of the templar and maybe the assassins, no scource, will edit when i find it

eziodescendent
04-02-2010, 09:43 AM
what my take is, that the assassins and templars had started at the time near the fall of egypt by the Romans, with the army being led by the Templars. but the assassins being formed a few years earlier to protect the freedom of the world. the truth video by 16 show that Adam and Eve are running from the factory. my theory with that video is that the people standing guard are templars, and the video is also a warning and an interpretation of what was to happen with the war with the assassins and templars

El_Sjietah
04-02-2010, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by DeusEx89:
when cain slayed abel and took the apple of eden from him, that was the birth of the first templar in history.

Bingo.

And in case anyone wonders, the first assassins were a crossbreed between the ones who came before and humans.

Then on to the Truth video. It shows Adam and Eve stealing a Piece of Eden from the ones who came before, thus destroying their control over humankind and triggering an uprising.

AMuppetMatt
04-02-2010, 12:40 PM
Remember though, Cain wasn't a Templar, and Able wasn't an Assassin. Names do not make the person, actions do. It's quite clear that, unless Ubi make a massive plot twist, that Templars are evil and Assassins are good. The Assassins and Templars have been branded their names, and it seems that the official names for them started up in the Holy Wars (or at least that's certainly the case for the Templars).

It looks like, if you follow this logic, then the Ones that Came Before WERE Templars, if not in name then in actions and motive.

El_Sjietah
04-02-2010, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by AMuppetMatt:
Remember though, Cain wasn't a Templar, and Able wasn't an Assassin. Names do not make the person, actions do. It's quite clear that, unless Ubi make a massive plot twist, that Templars are evil and Assassins are good. The Assassins and Templars have been branded their names, and it seems that the official names for them started up in the Holy Wars (or at least that's certainly the case for the Templars).

It looks like, if you follow this logic, then the Ones that Came Before WERE Templars, if not in name then in actions and motive.

Obviously the names they go by nowadays originated during the crusades, but the conflict itself goes way back to the time of Adam and Eve if we are to believe subject 16.

hypavilion
04-02-2010, 08:28 PM
GOD MADE THE ASSASINS AND GOD MADE THE TEMPLARS!!!! AND THE APPLE OF EDEN

godsmack_darius
04-02-2010, 09:01 PM
The assassins have probably been around for 1000s of years, maybe Hassan Ib Sabbah, never really found it, but maybe he just revived, which is a reference to whe he says (nbot specifically" even if you kill everyone in our brotherhood, the creed will stillbe their, someone along the way will have the same belief, etc etc"

interesting though, any comments?

thebutcherhead
04-03-2010, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by AMuppetMatt:
Remember though, Cain wasn't a Templar, and Able wasn't an Assassin. Names do not make the person, actions do. It's quite clear that, unless Ubi make a massive plot twist, that Templars are evil and Assassins are good. The Assassins and Templars have been branded their names, and it seems that the official names for them started up in the Holy Wars (or at least that's certainly the case for the Templars).

It looks like, if you follow this logic, then the Ones that Came Before WERE Templars, if not in name then in actions and motive.

The mark of cain revealed in the subject 16 videos was adopted by the templars as their insignia (Teutonic Cross). This implies a direct connection in either heritage or motive between Cain and the Templars within the assassins creed universe.

The ones who came before were not Templars. In AC 1, Al mualim addresses them as "the one's who came before", and not early members of the templar order. Also, at the end of AC 2, MInerva instructs Desmond to seek out the temples, and to "guard against the cross", indicating further that the one's who came before and the ac Templar Order are not alike in allegiance.

obliviondoll
04-04-2010, 12:06 AM
The terms "Assassins" and "Templars" are used in the Assassin's Creed universe to describe two groups who apparently existed among the ones who came before, and later also in humans.

The name "Templar" appears to have been adopted by the group around the time of the crusades, possibly by the group subverting the originally formed order, or being recruited to become the order - neither possibility has been clearly suported or denied by the evidence so far available. The "Assassin" name was in use much earlier than this, though it's still a comparatively new term in the context of the war between the two groups.

Finally, because it's annoying me, a grammatical note: "Assassin's" is the possessive form. NOT the plural. There isn't a war between "belonging to Assassin" and "belonging to Templar". It's not hard to get right. "Assassins vs Templars" = correct. "Assassin's vs Templar's" = nonsensical.