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kohansey
08-30-2010, 11:45 AM
I have played the HoMM series back from HoMM original up until HoMM IV it has always been just single player for me. When HoMM V came out, I had a lot of friends that got it as well. We would make maps and play them out in multiplayer. The biggest annoyance was when simultaneous turns would end and we would have to wait for the other players to finish before moving to the next turn. Turns that use to take 5 - 10 minutes turned into hours when you have 4 people playing. I could just imagine what it would be like with 8. I really hope Black Hole makes this version more multiplayer friendly. Having the option to always be simultaneous turns will greatly improve the PvP experience.

Kartabon
08-30-2010, 03:57 PM
Always simultaneous is just impossible in an RTS game kohansey. They're making great improves in order to make multiplayer faster, but making the turns simultaneous forever is just impossible.

However, 5-10 minutes for a single turn? I never take more than 3-4 in a turn, i use automatic battle system and i fight only in the important fights. I've played this game with 1 more person and never had timing problems. However, as I've told you, HoMM VI is more multiplayer-fast expected than its predecessors.

Murdertaker
08-31-2010, 02:13 PM
Again question to Moderators:
Will M&M have multiplayer - Team options where you can choose your team on every map, with every player which you want?(I mean - map is standard 1vs1vs1vs1vs1vs1, and there you can choose your team like 3 vs 3 or 4 vs 2 or 5 vs 1) Please reply

Kartabon
08-31-2010, 02:23 PM
We, mods, doesn't have any more information rather than the info u already now Murder, so for now I can't answer to your question.

kohansey
09-06-2010, 10:20 PM
5-10 minutes per turn, because some of my friends are a little slower in the clicking than others and we make really big maps. It usually only that long in the later turns where you are micromanaging 3-4 castles. But you are right, 3-4 minutes on average.

"Always simultaneous is just impossible in an RTS game kohansey"

This is too funny, a real-time strategy is always simultaneous turns, do I need to go through the list of games? But as a turn-based strategy I think it is possible. I have played a number of games that have it. If HoMM VI is really moving towards an RTS, I would think that this would be a given. More details about how multiplayer is going to work would be appreciated.

mcgslo
09-07-2010, 02:31 AM
Indeed RTS are real-time-strategies witch HMM is NOT. So HMM is actually TBS turn-based-strategy game. Just to be clear.

Well for serious competition in hotseat we never use automatic battle, never... because computer will always make you loose some creatures... and at the end more creatures you have you are better off... so all fights have to go without any loss and possibly less mana use. Since End i mean when actually two real players clash not AI vs Player.

5-15 min is just what computer takes in HMM5 wich is main issue with the hmm5 game. AI "smartness" is another. Obviously not in hotseat but in online game they should make some mini stuff to do saome town to look, play mini games or something while you wait for 10 min per oponent.

my 2 cents

Kartabon
09-07-2010, 05:31 AM
Sorry I meant TBS games xD My bad kohansey.

The point is that if u make HoMM always simultaneous u will get an RTS instead of a TBS, that's why it's impossible actually.

And for "mini games" mcgslo, in HoMM5 there's ghost mode :P Maybe they will do something similar to that in heroes 6; however, i never played ghost mode so much, so I really dont care.

mcgslo
09-07-2010, 06:01 AM
I would play online more if computer would take less time to play his turn. So my ghost mode experiance is limited. But i dont know if ghost mode was the right way. I thought more of some mini chess or some other clever mini game that maybe unlock you some visuals to your castle or hero or banner or some puzzle game to solve and gain some not game braking thing or even just to pass your time when waiting....

OR better make Heros 6 fully comatable with windows so you can alt tab to windows so you can surf internet, chat on FB or even play another game while waiting for your turn. And when is your turn window will blink or sth.

Dergos
09-07-2010, 08:18 AM
OR better make Heros 6 fully comatable with windows so you can alt tab to windows so you can surf internet, chat on FB or even play another game while waiting for your turn. And when is your turn window will blink or sth.

i think this relies partly on your pc's strength. but it would be awesome ofcourse

Kartabon
09-07-2010, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by mcgslo:
OR better make Heros 6 fully comatable with windows so you can alt tab to windows so you can surf internet, chat on FB or even play another game while waiting for your turn. And when is your turn window will blink or sth.

That's called Windowed Mode for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I always play in windowed mode to avoid alt-tabbing problems http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

mcgslo
09-08-2010, 06:26 AM
well window mode did work in online game but had some problems when in hotseat during AI turn... just did not finished loading AI turns...

But i think it is diference to "play in windows mode or" to "play fullscreen and be able to ALT+TAB to desktop."

Kartabon
09-08-2010, 06:59 AM
Never tried windowed in hotseat... although, for hotseat/single player, there's no need for windowed play, unless you are a person who loves to browse the Internet or talk with friends as you play (just like me :P )

However, never had problems during AI turn, that sounds weird...

Heroic_Spur
09-25-2010, 05:53 AM
Hello all,

I noticed this comment regarding Simultaneous turns,

'The point is that if u make HoMM always simultaneous u will get an RTS instead of a TBS, that's why it's impossible actually.'

This is absolutely untrue, and I really hope the developers do not share that opinion. There are countless turn based strategy games that use simultaneous turns, that does NOT make them RTS's. To give some examples, Age of Wonders, Age of Wonders 2 and the Civilization series. I'm certain that there are many many more.

I should just clarify what the issues are here. Firstly with classic turn based (there is a reason it is called 'classic'). This approach allows players to spend as long as they like on their turns free from any time limits or obligations. This approach is now very dated, few games use an exclusively fully turn based approach. The reason why can even be witnessed in HoMM5, where one has to wait for the computer even in single player, which can be an excruciating experience after a while.

The issues with simultaneous turns are these. Firstly it does, I admit, introduce an element where the person who moves first/faster takes the prize. On the other hand, it dramatically improves the playability of the game, and this should not be underestimated. Simultaneous in multiplayer HoMM5 demonstrates how much slicker it makes the game. It should also be added that simultaneous does NOT make the game an RTS. Players can still spend as long as they like on their turns, thinking and planning.

The solution to this problem, I believe is to introduce the option of simultaneous play, and the option to keep it locked. If players want to accept that there will be some occassions where the computer/another player takes something because it moved faster then so be it, that should be the player's choice. Age of Wonder's has it that if a player is about to make a move near your selected unit, you cannot move until that move is completed. Equally however, if players want to keep the game in classic turn based then that equally should be their choice.

Again however I should add that there a signficant number of TBS games that use simultaneous turns, and have done for a very long time, it is not some new and revolutionary idea, it is standard practice, and it's time that HoMM6 got with it.

On another note, some features which there is no excuse for not having in multiplayer are the following:
-the option to enable battle observation for allies, there is no reason why you should have to sit and wait, instead of watching an allies battle.
-the option in classic turn based to plan your moves for the following turn/ to view you cities and heroes etc

I hope these arguments have swayed you, that simultaneous play is not 'impossible' in the slightest. And that if you are still an advocate of classic turn based, that players should still have the option to play simultaneously if they so wish. If you're still a naysayer, try playing civilization 4 or 5, and you will quickly realise how even the most slow, technical and thoughtful games, can be played smoothly and efficiently simultaneously (without sacrificing thinking time).

kmbogd
09-27-2010, 02:55 PM
Well, multiplayer is one of the drawbacks of a TBS with respect to other styles of games. By its nature it makes multiplayer gaming a bit cumbersome since more or less until now (that is including Heroes 5) you spend roughly half the game waiting.

Also there are 2 types of people playing in multiplayer: most of the fans that play just for fun and take turns no longer than 5 minutes on average and the professionals (you can find them mostly play on toheroes.com but also on ubi and of course some other places I don't know about http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif) that take turns that last on average 20-30 min or even more if in later phases of tournament ( 1hour turns not very uncommon).

In my opinion a game will last long if it has a strong community of professionals playing (like for starcraft). So there is need for improvement here. Simultaneous turns helped a lot, actually most of the maps played by professionals are done so that simultaneous finishes only towards the end of the game when one player manages to break some huge stack of monster and enters the territory of the other player.

I believe that another thing that can help is to increase the damage with respect to hit points. In this way battles last a bit less. Also, make sure that typical exploits such as killing hordes of slow walkers with only few fast walkers (involving lots of hit and run around and correspondingly long turns) are no longer possible. Also it will help if multiplayer will shift more towards macromanagement (dwellings you take, which mines and castles) than on micromanagement (on most of the maps you know what course you have to take, the problem being you have to do it as fast as possible which means only difficulty in battles since you had to kill basically the same stack earlier and hence with less units available.)

mcgslo
09-28-2010, 07:01 AM
Well now if you wanted to win basicly you had 3 things to consider...

1st always learn same skills thata are basicly "must" for final fight... so almost all heroes would have like... Attack,Luck,Racial skill, enlightement, and magic school (depends on castle), + or another magic school or logistics...

2nd mass your armies and loose None of units...basic was just to guard your archer unit... and thats it. Offcourse same castle type did increase your populus growth by 2x (wich is 100% more than oponents and automatic wim in most cases)... and there is ressurection and rise dead (for undead) that made you loose NONE of units... and offcourse broken diplomacy even if you did not have it you coul join weekly groth units with ease (wich was also broken)

3rd Luck (not skill). Which armies guards you, wich artifacts you have on your territory, and other random events....

I hope more skills and skill combinations would be usefull in H6. And that ressurection and rise dead would be used diferently or only with certain units... For final fights resurection wasnt problem but it did alow you to have your whole army...

When it is not your turn in non Hotseat mode allow us to check various things, heroes, castle, or include minigame or other thing that we can do while waiting battles to finish. Or at least working ALT+TAB function so we can check internet and that game notifys us when our turn is up.

spydrmunkie
10-04-2010, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Murdertaker:
Again question to Moderators:
Will M&M have multiplayer - Team options where you can choose your team on every map, with every player which you want?(I mean - map is standard 1vs1vs1vs1vs1vs1, and there you can choose your team like 3 vs 3 or 4 vs 2 or 5 vs 1) Please reply

I agree completely, since starting to play the HOMM series I have always liked playing team play, many times having to build my own maps or modifying maps so I can play multiplayer team play. Specifically the TEAM aspect of it, in my opinion is the most fun.

Mr.Dragon
10-05-2010, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by spydrmunkie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Murdertaker:
Again question to Moderators:
Will M&M have multiplayer - Team options where you can choose your team on every map, with every player which you want?(I mean - map is standard 1vs1vs1vs1vs1vs1, and there you can choose your team like 3 vs 3 or 4 vs 2 or 5 vs 1) Please reply

I agree completely, since starting to play the HOMM series I have always liked playing team play, many times having to build my own maps or modifying maps so I can play multiplayer team play. Specifically the TEAM aspect of it, in my opinion is the most fun. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've never actually played hotseat without first modifying for team play myself.
I mean I can't imagine sending my buddy away to twiddle his thumbs in the corner while I do my turn or reverse.
It's more fun to comment and advise and think along with your friend while he's doing his turn in hotseat.
This works best in Player(s) versus The World maps though, those can last AGES.
Maps where you're rampaging across the map to reach that final castle, or boss creature stack or grail dig site.
Doing those with a few people in hotseat is amazing.
I once made a giant map for Heroes V with a similar mindset to hotseat with 3 friends.
Sadly when I uninstalled Heroes I seem to have deleted the map, which is a pity, cost me WEEKS to make.
Still have screenshots of it though.

GhostDracolich
10-07-2010, 02:47 AM
I would bet that Multiplayer will be a part of the game, especially with the announced changes such as reduced resource variety and zone controls.

As for the Simultaneous Turns topic, the Multiplayer portion of the game definitely needs a true Simultaneous turn mode as there really is no excuse not to include it. Old-Fashioned TBS Multiplayer is basically dead except for a small hardcore niche, especially when there are more than 2 players currently playing.

Mr.Dragon
10-07-2010, 03:09 AM
Full TBS could still work, provided they gave us something to do while waiting for other people.
Ghost mode was a step in the right direction.

But maybe something as simple as including a little mini-game might help.
Maybe you can even earn some extra gold while playing that mini-game, giving players an incentive for finishing their turns faster.

It could "save and clone" your current hero and army and you can walk around in an arena environment and engage stacks in combat while you wait, just for fun, then when it's your turn again, it cuts to your hero and you're back in action.

papsajt
10-10-2010, 08:40 PM
One idea:

Maybe the best if we get new channels (we have duel, training, ranking) and we call
"world ranking"
More channels need more player, of course.

Optional, but if u enter this channel and you read terms and conditions get points in a user friendly system.

higher qualified players against same levels.
beginers against beginers (different experience, different table)

So we can find players for our game, for our experience, for our fan, for OUR GAME.
Heroes 6 can be more user and more multiplayer friendly

kohansey
11-18-2010, 02:43 PM
I glad more players understand that not having simultaneous turns could be a game breaker. I have enjoyed HoMM over the ages and this is the one aspect that has prevented me from continuing to enjoy the series.

In HoMM5, like many others, I had to resort to making maps so that simultaneous turns can last as long as possible.

I believe with all the changes to the "basic" aspect of HoMM that Ubisoft is doing, true simultaneous turns should be one of them. I sincerely hope they add this feature into the game, otherwise this game will be another shelver.

Zanosan
02-28-2011, 01:39 AM
1. I all for simultaneous turns. I know with it can be done better than HoMMV but atleast in HoMMV it show good promise. I just want to see it implemented for the whole game based on teams and not just until you reach another player's territory.

2. Diplomacy. This has been missing from all heroes games and yet it would be such an excellent feature for the series! Think of civilizations games or even Sins of a Solar Empire. In Sins, you could offer missions to other players for reward and better relationship status and you could set up bounty on another player. It would be awesome in an FFA game where players could setup bounties for other heroes or player's castles at their local seer's hut hahaha. I know Clash of Heroes had this too!

This part of the game has been so underdeveloped and yet the rest of the game seems to be built for it in so many indirect ways!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif Such a good dream